Suggestions

Granted. Heh, though apparently we're all supposed to have eagle vision based on the current captchas anyway. But given all the site resources available: Guides and actually googling "flight rising wiki silk" will give you everything and that everything's just a recolor, once you know one silk veil, you know them all. I see nothing particularly wrong with a trivia hunt, bots can't look up and connect trivia, a human can. By that logic I think, we couldn't ask for specific breeds, "What if X player has never seen a hatchling SD?" Some reasonable competency should be assumed/ expected just because of context. From the backend reading I was doing, the reCAPTCHA will keep flashing up new images to "check" against the database it's given. Though I haven't read until what point it stops. and declares the tester as "failing" at being human. So if a person clicks Verify, but hasn't spotted all of the cars and leaves one, the program will give new images that have already been successfully identified as "cars" by previous people using the captcha. reCAPTCHA uses machine learning, so I think that also would solve the "but the colorblind!" issue, since if there are enough of them to make a dent in the algorithms (or that one item gets reliably tagged 'wrong' against what the database says it should be) reCAPTCHA appears to go with mass agreement and in which case, it's less a matter that the Windbound Plumage and Sanguine Plumage are recolors, but then it'll ask players to indirectly recognize what "right" category is: [item=Windbound Plumage] majority [b]dark[/b]. Falls into "Wind Flight" category. [item=Sanguine Plumage] majority [b]light[/b]. Falls into "Joxar's Inventory" category. At the very least, while their colors may give trouble, but possibly not as much as you think, because there's a difference in relative contrast, not simply of hue (I'd love a RG-issue person to check on that though). The simple way around that is to not mass-upload the item/apparel/familiar/dragon data base at once. The staff could probably upload sets of items to fall within whatever criteria they wanted (Elemental Flight, Apparel Sets, Dragon Breeds, but something concrete is the key! Not idiocy like, "Identify the Dragon Aequorin spotlighted two threads ago". That's the 'lore-level' crap that'd be a no-go for me. And since there's a guide for Tomo, that the admins are okay with, I'm pretty sure if anyone got stuck on "ultimate plague weapon??" It'd be easy enough to make a guide thread to reference the categories in a reCAPTCHA that would work too) then tell the reCAPTCHA to use everything else as filler. [quote=https://developers.google.com/recaptcha/old/docs/customization] Once you've successfully installed reCAPTCHA on your site, you may want to change the way it looks. This page explains: (1) how to choose one of the standard reCAPTCHA themes; (2) how to fully customize the appearance of reCAPTCHA; and (3) how to internationalize reCAPTCHA by changing the language of the Widget. [/quote] Between setting the paramaters right at the beginning and then letting the algorithms 'learn' with intereaction, it should make a fairly smooth bot detection process. But seriously, I'll take having to click an extra image until the detector is sure rather than play 'identify the maybe not a dragon blob' we're currently doing. I think just having discrete and clear things to click on would be worlds better. ....... This got wordier than expected. But anyway, I think in the use of a reCAPTCHA system there wouldn't be as much of an issue, if any, about color-blindness issues compared to the current captcha. Each item would be oriented right side up, on a clear field and because a category is given everyone would at least know what they're looking for right off the bat. -------------------- The examples I gave are basically only if the staff here deciedes to make an internal captcha, like they already did. And we all know how that's turning out. To be fair, they're human and can't think of everything, but well... how many months has it been with no sign of fixes? Personally, we'd ALL be much better off if they went ahead and just used Google's version. Not FR-content, even a little in the explanation of reCAPTCHA v2 here: https://support.google.com/recaptcha/?hl=en It even has audio support built right in.

I would love reCAPTCHA or like... literally anything that is not the current system. If I had to sing the Macarena that would be a better system than what we currently have!!!

But no on a serious note. I think using reCAPTCHA to have it like "Pick the Imperials!" or "Pick the Windsinger!" would be a really good way to make the captcha's FR themed without making them a nightmare to complete. If someone doesn't know what the flight deity looks like (Like offhand I have no idea what the Arcane's deity looks like or their name!!!) it would only take a couple seconds to google "Flight Rising Arcane Deity" and pull up a picture of the thing in question. (I literally just did that and only had to click 2 links to get to an image of him, his name is apparently The Arcanist and he looks like a Spiral??? ))

If I were doing long-haul Coli grinding, I wouldn't want to stop, open a new tab, navigate to Google/FR Guides and try to look up the trivia/item/lore/location/use/purpose/whatever of the custom captcha. KISS.

Having to look things up in a guide is every bit as bad as the system we have now, IMO.

Something simple might be "pick the food item" out of a line up of four. Even if the player doesn't know all food items on FR, the tiny plant/insect/meat/seafood icon would give it away.

Trying to place items in a flight, or identify which items are from the same set, or what's the clue that's hidden in the description of the item, doesn't sound like a solution to me.

At the very least, if we're looking for simple, easy to implement changes for improvement--remove all the backgrounds. Have the dragon and items appear on a solid colored background. It at least gives us a better shot of identifying a dragon over a fishy blob that's part of the wallpaper.

these captchas really kill the game for me, sadly

there has to be a better way to do this

[quote name="gemajgall" date="2018-09-07 16:16:48" ] If I were doing long-haul Coli grinding, I wouldn't want to stop, open a new tab, navigate to Google/FR Guides and try to look up the trivia/item/lore/location/use/purpose/whatever of the custom captcha. KISS. Having to look things up in a guide is every bit as bad as the system we have now, IMO. Something simple might be "pick the food item" out of a line up of four. Even if the player doesn't know all food items on FR, the tiny plant/insect/meat/seafood icon would give it away. Trying to place items in a flight, or identify which items are from the same set, or what's the clue that's hidden in the description of the item, doesn't sound like a solution to me. At the very least, if we're looking for simple, easy to implement changes for improvement--remove all the backgrounds. Have the dragon and items appear on a solid colored background. It at least gives us a better shot of identifying a dragon over a fishy blob that's part of the wallpaper. [/quote] While you're right about googling not being ideal, I agree with the person upthread who said we should assume some level of competency from context. Identifying a deity, a breed, or a flight rune (or even a nonflight rune such as Venom) may require a quick lookup, once, but I think for the overwhelming majority of players, "click the Wind deity," "which rune is Clouds," or "click all the Pearlcatchers" would be better than what we have now. In addition, with a [I]very[/I] basic knowledge of the site, a reasonable guess could be made. I mean, if it asks you for the Wind deity and you've got Windsinger, Flamecaller, Shadowbinder, and Arcanist, I feel that you have a strong chance of guessing correctly without any knowledge of the deities at all, simply because unlike a bot you can make an educated guess about which one looks "windy". Keyboard controls could be as easy as assigning options letters or numbers, and without twisty backgrounds there would be room to make the images bigger.

I definitely fully agree with keyboard controls. And removing the psychedelic backgrounds (if not all the backgrounds).

Half the Plague stuff is Green. -_-; The fact of the matter is the staff doesn't even stick to their own aesthetics. Plague eggs look like someone took a Wind egg and polished all of the swirly patterns off it until it shines like a Light egg. A set of Crystals? Are they from Arcane or Earth? Bamboo is a plant, right, so it should be from Nature?

A lot of the people in this thread (and most people who frequent Suggestions in general) have been on the site for years. I'm going to ask you to put that knowledge aside. Try to think about it like you're a newbie.

It's hard enough to get newbies into the Coli. We don't get a lot of intense Dom battles anymore, the price of Elim is sky-high and you need to follow user-made Guides like they're the Bible in order to keep pace. This would be another obstacle keeping newbies and casual players out of the Coli. Again, I should remind you that the goal here is to make the Coli more accessible, not less.

A friendly reminder that nonflight Runes aren't ever used outside the context of Runestones of the Arcanist, and not everyone plays that. I haven't touched the game in at least a year, and I most certainly don't know what the rune for Venom is, not unless it's written underneath like it is in the actual game.

Support for something basic like "click all the Pearlcatchers." It's not too different than the capcha we have now. But I'd also recommend a limit to the number of clothing items that can be on a capcha dragon.

If I had things my way, honestly, we'd just use the reCaptcha that asks you to identify stoplights or cars or roadsigns. And then have the damned thing leave you alone for at least 30 minutes. If people can't even do that, then... I don't even know what to suggest.... pay someone in China to grind for you like people in WoW do or something...

The whole comment about using apparel was to give a constructive suggestion about what to plug into their version of recaptcha, because A) They seem to love building their own methods instead of using free resources because "theme". & B) it's clear by now that it's not a good idea to assume the admins will make good choices about what's "easy to see" or not. They knew about the visibility problems back in BETA and nothing got fixed before it was released. Who ever heard of running a beta and pushing the update out right at the conclusion? There'd hardly any time to implement beta-test information. There was a longer gap between Beta and release for the FR game when it first launched.

---

The current system we have now is horrible, and it's made worse by having the captchas show up every five minutes. If I only had to deal with the annoying thing once per training, I'd probably be less irritated, it'd be one of those small inconveniences (like not being to name a dragon after it's put up in the AH.) If I was human five minutes ago, I'm still human now, let me train this one fodder in peace.

I don't think bots are constantly working high venues or hopping off to switch their team around, then constantly "adding/removing dragons from the coli selection list" through exalting. Those should all be auto-indicators of being human. If you're swaping dragons in and out of a team, and/or those dragons are disappearing from the coli's own list (by reselling or exalting, either way they're gone) then that's clearly a human working there and the captcha shouldn't bother you at all.. And I think that'd be pretty easy to do by using action expectation timers and "if" commands. It might make the initial coli boot up a few seconds slower while the parameters load, but I can live with that.

That's an ideal way of looking at it. And maybe humans would only get bothered during festivals, where people set a team up and grind lower venues for currency. But that's reasonable to me. Not fair, not unduly pleasant, but a reasonable inconvenience. What we've got now? It's ******* hell for everyone.

And why do we need the captcha again? We've got Rounsdey and the devs dumping KS stuff into her to soak up treasure. So even if we have botters.... Well, more free treasure is more treasure being dumped into her.

I haven't been Coli much lately, but here's another one for the books: [img]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/gemajgall/Captcha%20A.png[/img] Captchas really need to be redone from the ground up.

[quote name="gemajgall" date="2018-10-02 18:17:51" ] I haven't been Coli much lately, but here's another one for the books: [img]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/gemajgall/Captcha%20A.png[/img] Captchas really need to be redone from the ground up. [/quote] *points at lower-right* Flamey Imp Female. *points at upper right* Skydancer with Eye Spots. *points at upper left* Blue Tundra buried in robes. *points at middle* Bush. (EDIT Because I'm on a new page and my post doesn't make sense without the post before it.)