I'd like to see the entire concept scrapped, to be honest. It has good intentions but it just doesn't sit right with me for all the reasons already posted.
Or if they're adamant about implementing it anyway,
[quote name="Megan" date="2015-01-23 17:11:04"]Support of the vista removal, its already causing too much strife as it is. Needs less limited/hard to get vista introductions and more easily obtainable vistas(flight/cash shop/treasure/achievements/coli). So many ways to add vistas in for people and none are being used.[/quote]
I'd like to see the entire concept scrapped, to be honest. It has good intentions but it just doesn't sit right with me for all the reasons already posted.
Or if they're adamant about implementing it anyway,
Megan wrote on 2015-01-23 17:11:04:
Support of the vista removal, its already causing too much strife as it is. Needs less limited/hard to get vista introductions and more easily obtainable vistas(flight/cash shop/treasure/achievements/coli). So many ways to add vistas in for people and none are being used.
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[quote name="hologramblue" date="2015-01-23 17:58:07"]I do think having more vistas that are obtained through gameplay means would make this feature less of a point of contention. [u]I think people are coming at the MVP vista announcement with a "gotta catch 'em all" attitude[/u], feeling pressured to work to obtain it because it seems to be the one most in reach of all the vistas released, [u]when it doesn't seem to be meant for that[/u].[/quote]^
hologramblue wrote on 2015-01-23 17:58:07:
I do think having more vistas that are obtained through gameplay means would make this feature less of a point of contention. I think people are coming at the MVP vista announcement with a "gotta catch 'em all" attitude, feeling pressured to work to obtain it because it seems to be the one most in reach of all the vistas released, when it doesn't seem to be meant for that.
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The thing is, most video gamers and online gamers tend to see things as 100% Completion. Collectors make gaming sites go round. Even if a site decides that "no one can ever achieve all of X" it doesn't mean users won't stop feeling like they want to collect them all. It's just how people have been wired after years of gaming.
The thing is, most video gamers and online gamers tend to see things as 100% Completion. Collectors make gaming sites go round. Even if a site decides that "no one can ever achieve all of X" it doesn't mean users won't stop feeling like they want to collect them all. It's just how people have been wired after years of gaming.
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If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
Haha, don't I know it. But between Booleans, KS stuff, and art/writing vistas, there's already plenty of stuff on FR that isn't one-hundred-percentable. I think the reality of multiplayer and community-based games is that no one person is meant to get everything, so I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong about a vista that most people are unlikely to be awarded.
Haha, don't I know it. But between Booleans, KS stuff, and art/writing vistas, there's already plenty of stuff on FR that isn't one-hundred-percentable. I think the reality of multiplayer and community-based games is that no one person is meant to get everything, so I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong about a vista that most people are unlikely to be awarded.
Support!
I've been on several forum sites before I cam here, and awards/'upgrades' were given out to 'helpful' players. This soon became a circlejerk of owner worship, and I would hate to see this become a thing too.
The MVP vista may have good intentions, but I can see it being an easily corruptable thing in the future due to people having an Ash Ketchum complex (Gotta Be The Very Best/Gotta Catch 'Em All) and actively turning something designed to be a 'you're a good player, well done' into a 'fight to be the princex' which later becomes a system of admin pets.
We're all human, and someone is bound to be more inclined to make someone they get on with well and is a good friend MVP rather than someone who they've never talked to. Again, the system is easily going to become a way for admins to get pets and 'protection squads' in a sense. Not saying that any will, but people can amass butt-kissers unwillingly.
Tl;dr; Support, seen this system being corrupted before, can easily be corrupted by 'Ash Ketchum'ers, will always be unintentionally biased.
Support!
I've been on several forum sites before I cam here, and awards/'upgrades' were given out to 'helpful' players. This soon became a circlejerk of owner worship, and I would hate to see this become a thing too.
The MVP vista may have good intentions, but I can see it being an easily corruptable thing in the future due to people having an Ash Ketchum complex (Gotta Be The Very Best/Gotta Catch 'Em All) and actively turning something designed to be a 'you're a good player, well done' into a 'fight to be the princex' which later becomes a system of admin pets.
We're all human, and someone is bound to be more inclined to make someone they get on with well and is a good friend MVP rather than someone who they've never talked to. Again, the system is easily going to become a way for admins to get pets and 'protection squads' in a sense. Not saying that any will, but people can amass butt-kissers unwillingly.
Tl;dr; Support, seen this system being corrupted before, can easily be corrupted by 'Ash Ketchum'ers, will always be unintentionally biased.
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I honestly don't have a problem with the MVP vista and i think so far, it just seems like a lot of speculation as to why it COULD be bad instead of the reality of the concept. We have no way of knowing exactly how things will pan out until it gets going for a while. I mean, we haven't even given it a shot and we're already getting into a frenzy about it.
I don't know, I just think it would be better to let things run their course for a bit and see the issue for ourselves before we rush to remove it.
Also, i think that once we get more obtainable vistas out there, this would pretty much be a non-issue.
I honestly don't have a problem with the MVP vista and i think so far, it just seems like a lot of speculation as to why it COULD be bad instead of the reality of the concept. We have no way of knowing exactly how things will pan out until it gets going for a while. I mean, we haven't even given it a shot and we're already getting into a frenzy about it.
I don't know, I just think it would be better to let things run their course for a bit and see the issue for ourselves before we rush to remove it.
Also, i think that once we get more obtainable vistas out there, this would pretty much be a non-issue.
[quote name="inklizard" date="2015-01-23 18:09:27"]I'd like to see the entire concept scrapped, to be honest. It has good intentions but it just doesn't sit right with me for all the reasons already posted.
Or if they're adamant about implementing it anyway,
[quote name="Megan" date="2015-01-23 17:11:04"]Support of the vista removal, its already causing too much strife as it is. Needs less limited/hard to get vista introductions and more easily obtainable vistas(flight/cash shop/treasure/achievements/coli). So many ways to add vistas in for people and none are being used.[/quote][/quote]
[quote name="lizziecat1279" date="2015-01-23 12:56:32"]Reasons against it:
Accusations of admin favoritism
People taking all of their vitriol off site where it's less easily policed
Elitism and a sense of "oh I'm an MVP that must mean that my words mean something" resulting in minimodding (though I suppose this would result in MVP status being taken away if it was caught)...[/quote]
I agree that the MVP thing is a bad idea and should not be implemented, for the reasons stated.
inklizard wrote on 2015-01-23 18:09:27:
I'd like to see the entire concept scrapped, to be honest. It has good intentions but it just doesn't sit right with me for all the reasons already posted.
Or if they're adamant about implementing it anyway,
Megan wrote on 2015-01-23 17:11:04:
Support of the vista removal, its already causing too much strife as it is. Needs less limited/hard to get vista introductions and more easily obtainable vistas(flight/cash shop/treasure/achievements/coli). So many ways to add vistas in for people and none are being used.
lizziecat1279 wrote on 2015-01-23 12:56:32:
Reasons against it:
Accusations of admin favoritism
People taking all of their vitriol off site where it's less easily policed
Elitism and a sense of "oh I'm an MVP that must mean that my words mean something" resulting in minimodding (though I suppose this would result in MVP status being taken away if it was caught)...
I agree that the MVP thing is a bad idea and should not be implemented, for the reasons stated.
Even if it doesn't result in drama and/or favoritism, I think it's just not a good use of the admins' time. Especially the way it's described: it's a reward for someone's entire forum presence rather than for some specific thing, and it'll be revoked if their behavior ever stops meeting high standards. Meaning that someone will have to 1) check people's entire forum histories, and 2) keep monitoring all the posts by the people who get the status, to check whether they continue meeting the criteria.
Replacement suggestion: If they want to have something to reward contributions with, make it awarded for one specific thing (a really useful guide, help fixing a bug, participation in a long constructive discussion, whatever), NOT a reflection of someone's entire and continuing forum history. Either just award the vistas permanently with the understanding that they're for one specific thing, or do a temporary "person of the month" type of thing, possibly using the Best Around achievement like someone suggested. Make it either permanent or automatically temporary, not a semi-permanent thing that can be taken away and therefore requires permanent monitoring of some users.
Even if it doesn't result in drama and/or favoritism, I think it's just not a good use of the admins' time. Especially the way it's described: it's a reward for someone's entire forum presence rather than for some specific thing, and it'll be revoked if their behavior ever stops meeting high standards. Meaning that someone will have to 1) check people's entire forum histories, and 2) keep monitoring all the posts by the people who get the status, to check whether they continue meeting the criteria.
Replacement suggestion: If they want to have something to reward contributions with, make it awarded for one specific thing (a really useful guide, help fixing a bug, participation in a long constructive discussion, whatever), NOT a reflection of someone's entire and continuing forum history. Either just award the vistas permanently with the understanding that they're for one specific thing, or do a temporary "person of the month" type of thing, possibly using the Best Around achievement like someone suggested. Make it either permanent or automatically temporary, not a semi-permanent thing that can be taken away and therefore requires permanent monitoring of some users.
I'm mildly amused by the mere existence of this thread. Just the fact that it exists is worth a giggle.
.... Mild amusement aside, I don't think it should be gotten rid of, it should just be handled extremely carefully and given out either 1. very rarely or 2. fairly commonly, no middle ground. I'm sure the staff can handle themselves in terms of personal favorites vs. who actually deserves it.
Its existence more or less acts as positive reinforcement; being a jerk and stirring up trouble means you're probably off the nice list. "If you behave nice enough and contribute to the community enough, you might have a chance at getting this cute shiny vista" seems like enough of a reason for it to stay.
Additionally, anyone who's just that bad enough to start causing fights over this, or to start harassing others over it, etc, etc, will end up in the spotlight and we can all learn not to be them.
That's a pretty nice indirect effect of something just being a thing.
tl;dr No support, I see its existence to be beneficial.
I'm mildly amused by the mere existence of this thread. Just the fact that it exists is worth a giggle.
.... Mild amusement aside, I don't think it should be gotten rid of, it should just be handled extremely carefully and given out either 1. very rarely or 2. fairly commonly, no middle ground. I'm sure the staff can handle themselves in terms of personal favorites vs. who actually deserves it.
Its existence more or less acts as positive reinforcement; being a jerk and stirring up trouble means you're probably off the nice list. "If you behave nice enough and contribute to the community enough, you might have a chance at getting this cute shiny vista" seems like enough of a reason for it to stay.
Additionally, anyone who's just that bad enough to start causing fights over this, or to start harassing others over it, etc, etc, will end up in the spotlight and we can all learn not to be them.
That's a pretty nice indirect effect of something just being a thing.
tl;dr No support, I see its existence to be beneficial.
