[quote name="Marine" date="2015-01-23 21:41:46"]
I don't think it should be gotten rid of, it should just be handled extremely carefully and given out either 1. very rarely or 2. fairly commonly, no middle ground. I'm sure the staff can handle themselves in terms of personal favorites vs. who actually deserves it.
[/quote]
im on the fence
i see that it /could/ be beneficial if handled right
judging purely by past experiences i dont know how well it will be handled,
maybe give it a up to 6 month let it run for a while as a test, see how much favoritism is played vs who actually deserves it. i would like to hope that the admins/mods experiences help them evolve and if this plays through right.
if it starts to fail, remove the NAME and the CONCEPT not the vista - rename the vista and redo how its acquired or retire it.
edits:
http://flightrising.com/main.php?p=mb&board=sug&id=1330278&page=1
taking the karma system idea to acquire the vista would actually be the best way of handing it -very few karma increases would be form friends so that wouldn't effect it to much on the larger scale , and those that get caught bribing for karma would get their karma reset, multiple offences would get the vista locked away form them.
so after reading that i would support mostly changing the way the vista was acquired balancing it form just staff or be based on community.
Marine wrote on 2015-01-23 21:41:46:
I don't think it should be gotten rid of, it should just be handled extremely carefully and given out either 1. very rarely or 2. fairly commonly, no middle ground. I'm sure the staff can handle themselves in terms of personal favorites vs. who actually deserves it.
im on the fence
i see that it /could/ be beneficial if handled right
judging purely by past experiences i dont know how well it will be handled,
maybe give it a up to 6 month let it run for a while as a test, see how much favoritism is played vs who actually deserves it. i would like to hope that the admins/mods experiences help them evolve and if this plays through right.
if it starts to fail, remove the NAME and the CONCEPT not the vista - rename the vista and redo how its acquired or retire it.
edits:
http://flightrising.com/main.php?p=mb&board=sug&id=1330278&page=1
taking the karma system idea to acquire the vista would actually be the best way of handing it -very few karma increases would be form friends so that wouldn't effect it to much on the larger scale , and those that get caught bribing for karma would get their karma reset, multiple offences would get the vista locked away form them.
so after reading that i would support mostly changing the way the vista was acquired balancing it form just staff or be based on community.
- wish i could remember who did this
[quote name="nika" date="2015-01-23 20:24:38"]Even if it doesn't result in drama and/or favoritism, I think it's just not a good use of the admins' time. Especially the way it's described: it's a reward for someone's entire forum presence rather than for some specific thing, and it'll be revoked if their behavior ever stops meeting high standards. Meaning that someone will have to 1) check people's entire forum histories, and 2) keep monitoring all the posts by the people who get the status, to check whether they continue meeting the criteria.
Replacement suggestion: If they want to have something to reward contributions with, make it awarded for one specific thing (a really useful guide, help fixing a bug, participation in a long constructive discussion, whatever), NOT a reflection of someone's entire and continuing forum history. Either just award the vistas permanently with the understanding that they're for one specific thing, or do a temporary "person of the month" type of thing, possibly using the Best Around achievement like someone suggested. Make it either permanent or automatically temporary, not a semi-permanent thing that can be taken away and therefore requires permanent monitoring of some users.[/quote]
Just want to say that I think this is a really good point here.
nika wrote on 2015-01-23 20:24:38:
Even if it doesn't result in drama and/or favoritism, I think it's just not a good use of the admins' time. Especially the way it's described: it's a reward for someone's entire forum presence rather than for some specific thing, and it'll be revoked if their behavior ever stops meeting high standards. Meaning that someone will have to 1) check people's entire forum histories, and 2) keep monitoring all the posts by the people who get the status, to check whether they continue meeting the criteria.
Replacement suggestion: If they want to have something to reward contributions with, make it awarded for one specific thing (a really useful guide, help fixing a bug, participation in a long constructive discussion, whatever), NOT a reflection of someone's entire and continuing forum history. Either just award the vistas permanently with the understanding that they're for one specific thing, or do a temporary "person of the month" type of thing, possibly using the Best Around achievement like someone suggested. Make it either permanent or automatically temporary, not a semi-permanent thing that can be taken away and therefore requires permanent monitoring of some users.
Just want to say that I think this is a really good point here.
Flag by osiem
I think pretty much the same than almost everyone here.
Taking only the WotW announcement as a guide, to me it seems admins will just be playing "choose your favorite", while users will act "nice" just in order to get this achievement, instead of being truly friendly and helpful to others.
That said, I do like the concept of praising the ones that do behave nicely; we just need to find a more clear system to account their good deeds and praise them (like karma points).
I think pretty much the same than almost everyone here.
Taking only the WotW announcement as a guide, to me it seems admins will just be playing "choose your favorite", while users will act "nice" just in order to get this achievement, instead of being truly friendly and helpful to others.
That said, I do like the concept of praising the ones that do behave nicely; we just need to find a more clear system to account their good deeds and praise them (like karma points).
Maybe a vista for reaching a certain number of forum posts? Being ACTIVE on the site for a long time (but not just the betas and kick starters.)? I feel like there's so few chances to get a forum vista, and with this brand new (and absolutely beautiful one) it kind of kicks salt into a wound.
I've always wanted a forum vista, and now I have to compete to get one? There is absolutely no way to earn a forum vista. Just compete. Compete in accent contests, compete in writing contests, compete to be the best FR user.
I'm sorry, but is it unreasonable to ask for a way to EARN it? A certain number of achievement points maybe? We aren't doing anything with those.
Maybe a vista for reaching a certain number of forum posts? Being ACTIVE on the site for a long time (but not just the betas and kick starters.)? I feel like there's so few chances to get a forum vista, and with this brand new (and absolutely beautiful one) it kind of kicks salt into a wound.
I've always wanted a forum vista, and now I have to compete to get one? There is absolutely no way to earn a forum vista. Just compete. Compete in accent contests, compete in writing contests, compete to be the best FR user.
I'm sorry, but is it unreasonable to ask for a way to EARN it? A certain number of achievement points maybe? We aren't doing anything with those.
support, however, i will also like to point out that earnable vistas rather than ones you can't get unless you can win a competition would most likely alleviate the backlash that is starting with the mvp vista thing.
support, however, i will also like to point out that earnable vistas rather than ones you can't get unless you can win a competition would most likely alleviate the backlash that is starting with the mvp vista thing.
the pocchari yandere
I also agree. Right now vistas have just been changed from "kickstarter only" to "kickstarter or admin's favorite". They might as well be handing out Skycats, as far as the PR implications go. It will be perceived as unfair to the kickstarter supporters and unfair to everyone who's been waiting patiently (a year and a half now!) for forum vistas to be available to more people. There are over 100,000 users on site. Can we really expect a handful of overworked admins to be able to fairly select the best of the best, from that quantity of people? Even if we limit it to highly active users that's several thousand. Giving everyone a fair shake sounds more labor intensive than reading a magazine slushpile.
Instead: Release vistas we can earn with achievements, or trade Swipp for, or find in the coli. It would be a lot less work for the admins AND will make the player base happier.
I also agree. Right now vistas have just been changed from "kickstarter only" to "kickstarter or admin's favorite". They might as well be handing out Skycats, as far as the PR implications go. It will be perceived as unfair to the kickstarter supporters and unfair to everyone who's been waiting patiently (a year and a half now!) for forum vistas to be available to more people. There are over 100,000 users on site. Can we really expect a handful of overworked admins to be able to fairly select the best of the best, from that quantity of people? Even if we limit it to highly active users that's several thousand. Giving everyone a fair shake sounds more labor intensive than reading a magazine slushpile.
Instead: Release vistas we can earn with achievements, or trade Swipp for, or find in the coli. It would be a lot less work for the admins AND will make the player base happier.
It is no worse than the "Best Around" achievement in my opinion.
If the admins/moderators want to take the time to check posts and such I say let them. It can't really be compared to kickstarter vistas because they are a different design. It is like saying all non-kickstarter familiars are unfair to kickstarter members.
I can understand the threat of elitism/drama/favouritism accusations but why is it such a big deal to get a vista? It isn't like its a new dragon or anything. It doesn't affect anything in the lair at all, and thus play style remains unchanged.
Just play the game and if you get it...consider it a random bonus, like getting a nocturne scroll. Anyone who is lucky enough to earn it is unlikely to then misuse it/suggest they are better than everyone else after.
It is no worse than the "Best Around" achievement in my opinion.
If the admins/moderators want to take the time to check posts and such I say let them. It can't really be compared to kickstarter vistas because they are a different design. It is like saying all non-kickstarter familiars are unfair to kickstarter members.
I can understand the threat of elitism/drama/favouritism accusations but why is it such a big deal to get a vista? It isn't like its a new dragon or anything. It doesn't affect anything in the lair at all, and thus play style remains unchanged.
Just play the game and if you get it...consider it a random bonus, like getting a nocturne scroll. Anyone who is lucky enough to earn it is unlikely to then misuse it/suggest they are better than everyone else after.
Support. The problem with this MVP thing to me is that lord knows I've been around enough game sites and forums to see ideas like this turn sour really fast on a consistent basis. I don't want that to happen to Flight Rising. We have a great community here and the idea is theoretically a great one, because hey everyone wants to be acknowledged for doing good work, but it just seems too... I don't know, easily corruptible and easy to rub in other peoples' faces. Elitism and popularity contests will always turn a community sour, no matter how good-natured the community is or how well-intentioned a system like this is. Given previous experience, I can say with (possibly pessimistic) confidence that'll be all this'll end up devolving into.
Combine that with the fact that there are people doing awesome things all over Flight Rising, but some are more sociable than others. Well, of course you notice the more sociable ones more. Does that make them more valuable than the less sociable ones? No, you just notice them more, and that makes them more apt to get the reward. It shouldn't work like that.
Personally, I think vistas should be implemented more in ways they can be earned rather than having to be picked by the admins, and I honestly think that's what should happen here. This probably wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal if that was the case, along with the fact that it's extremely difficult to be genuinely fair with something like this.
Support. The problem with this MVP thing to me is that lord knows I've been around enough game sites and forums to see ideas like this turn sour really fast on a consistent basis. I don't want that to happen to Flight Rising. We have a great community here and the idea is theoretically a great one, because hey everyone wants to be acknowledged for doing good work, but it just seems too... I don't know, easily corruptible and easy to rub in other peoples' faces. Elitism and popularity contests will always turn a community sour, no matter how good-natured the community is or how well-intentioned a system like this is. Given previous experience, I can say with (possibly pessimistic) confidence that'll be all this'll end up devolving into.
Combine that with the fact that there are people doing awesome things all over Flight Rising, but some are more sociable than others. Well, of course you notice the more sociable ones more. Does that make them more valuable than the less sociable ones? No, you just notice them more, and that makes them more apt to get the reward. It shouldn't work like that.
Personally, I think vistas should be implemented more in ways they can be earned rather than having to be picked by the admins, and I honestly think that's what should happen here. This probably wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal if that was the case, along with the fact that it's extremely difficult to be genuinely fair with something like this.
Most people here have said what I feel. I think the MVP idea is worth scrapping, unless it's tweaked a great deal.
Most people here have said what I feel. I think the MVP idea is worth scrapping, unless it's tweaked a great deal.
I'm in full support of removing the MVP vista. It just reeks of admin favoritism and I'm worried it would just devolve into a lot of people sucking up to compete for "MVP" status.
Like it has been mentioned numerous times, a karma points system would be far more useful and accurate in determining how helpful a player has been in the forums. And maybe if you get enough positive points, you'd receive the vista that way. Rather than a few admins determining how helpful a player has been, the forum community at large would do so.
Only semi-related, but I think it'd be totally hilarious for someone championing the removal of the MVP vista to end up with it.
I'm in full support of removing the MVP vista. It just reeks of admin favoritism and I'm worried it would just devolve into a lot of people sucking up to compete for "MVP" status.
Like it has been mentioned numerous times, a karma points system would be far more useful and accurate in determining how helpful a player has been in the forums. And maybe if you get enough positive points, you'd receive the vista that way. Rather than a few admins determining how helpful a player has been, the forum community at large would do so.
Only semi-related, but I think it'd be totally hilarious for someone championing the removal of the MVP vista to end up with it.
