@kaimint AYYYY thank you so much, bless! ♥
Creative Corner
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TOPIC | Science of Sornieth
Friend asked me about joining our lore, asked me about a potential lake and I went completely insane and made an entire ecological mockup map (zones) and simply topographical map of the Shifting Expanse. Ironically, I didn't even provide any solid information about the lake HAHAHA
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/730766440210235492/823284354440101908/map.png[/img]
Friend asked me about joining our lore, asked me about a potential lake and I went completely insane and made an entire ecological mockup map (zones) and simply topographical map of the Shifting Expanse. Ironically, I didn't even provide any solid information about the lake HAHAHA
[center]This is the most incredible thing I've read in a long while
dont mind me just taking notes
Dryads [emoji=phoenix feather size=1][emoji=old parchment size=1] be [emoji=phoenix feather size=1][emoji=old parchment size=1] wearing [emoji=phoenix feather size=1][emoji=old parchment size=1] timbs [emoji=phoenix feather size=1][emoji=old parchment size=1][/center]
This is the most incredible thing I've read in a long while
dont mind me just taking notes
Dryads
be wearing timbs
dont mind me just taking notes
Dryads
be wearing timbs
[font=American Gothic][size=4](Y'all I can't sleep, so you know what that means... [i]SCIENCE TIME[/I])
Great science-y post! I love the details. As for jaw muscle exposure... why not [i]both?[/i] To explain, it is a simple trick: cover the jaw muscle to form a seal (in birds, this is the gape line/flange (I forgot exact terminology, shame on obsessive me)), but make the muscle's covering the same coloration as the inner mouth. For example, let's look at an American alligator.
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Alligator_mississippiensis_defensive.jpg/640px-Alligator_mississippiensis_defensive.jpg[/img]
(Defensive boi!)
Look at the jaw, especially the corners of the m. adductors. It is actually covered in scale and a fleshy "gape." However, it is also a different color than the "main" scales, unlike most of the crocodile family (yep, alligators belong in Alligatoridae, not Crocodylidae or Gavialidae). However, it still covers the muscle, but simply [i]appears[/i] different because of coloration. So, it manages to "do" both at once, looking like the muscles are exposed, but also creating a nice seal for the toothy jaws. Nature is really crazy and amazing!
Plus, if you want to go even crazier, look up aquatic animals. They have some really neat jaws. Sockeye salmon males during breeding season are practically begging to be dragon jaws. Also deep sea animals- [i]deep sea animals.[/i] Please look up stuff, there's so much inspiration!
(Note: this depends on what type of dragon look ye be looking for. Personally, my 'basic' FR dragons are mainly based off reptilian and archosaur anatomy, with maybe some mammal thrown in depending on the type (with hyenas and African wild dogs for Mirrors for example). My weirder dragons (my favs) throw in more piscine and invertebrate bits because dang it I [i]love invertebrates.[/I])
[img]https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Casey-Holliday/publication/237814898/figure/fig10/AS:340781022892036@1458259935298/Individual-jaw-muscles-and-their-attachments-in-Alligator-mississippiensis-as-modeled.png[/img]
(Y'all I can't sleep, so you know what that means... SCIENCE TIME)
Great science-y post! I love the details. As for jaw muscle exposure... why not both? To explain, it is a simple trick: cover the jaw muscle to form a seal (in birds, this is the gape line/flange (I forgot exact terminology, shame on obsessive me)), but make the muscle's covering the same coloration as the inner mouth. For example, let's look at an American alligator.
(Defensive boi!)
Look at the jaw, especially the corners of the m. adductors. It is actually covered in scale and a fleshy "gape." However, it is also a different color than the "main" scales, unlike most of the crocodile family (yep, alligators belong in Alligatoridae, not Crocodylidae or Gavialidae). However, it still covers the muscle, but simply appears different because of coloration. So, it manages to "do" both at once, looking like the muscles are exposed, but also creating a nice seal for the toothy jaws. Nature is really crazy and amazing!
Plus, if you want to go even crazier, look up aquatic animals. They have some really neat jaws. Sockeye salmon males during breeding season are practically begging to be dragon jaws. Also deep sea animals- deep sea animals. Please look up stuff, there's so much inspiration!
(Note: this depends on what type of dragon look ye be looking for. Personally, my 'basic' FR dragons are mainly based off reptilian and archosaur anatomy, with maybe some mammal thrown in depending on the type (with hyenas and African wild dogs for Mirrors for example). My weirder dragons (my favs) throw in more piscine and invertebrate bits because dang it I love invertebrates.)
Great science-y post! I love the details. As for jaw muscle exposure... why not both? To explain, it is a simple trick: cover the jaw muscle to form a seal (in birds, this is the gape line/flange (I forgot exact terminology, shame on obsessive me)), but make the muscle's covering the same coloration as the inner mouth. For example, let's look at an American alligator.
(Defensive boi!)
Look at the jaw, especially the corners of the m. adductors. It is actually covered in scale and a fleshy "gape." However, it is also a different color than the "main" scales, unlike most of the crocodile family (yep, alligators belong in Alligatoridae, not Crocodylidae or Gavialidae). However, it still covers the muscle, but simply appears different because of coloration. So, it manages to "do" both at once, looking like the muscles are exposed, but also creating a nice seal for the toothy jaws. Nature is really crazy and amazing!
Plus, if you want to go even crazier, look up aquatic animals. They have some really neat jaws. Sockeye salmon males during breeding season are practically begging to be dragon jaws. Also deep sea animals- deep sea animals. Please look up stuff, there's so much inspiration!
(Note: this depends on what type of dragon look ye be looking for. Personally, my 'basic' FR dragons are mainly based off reptilian and archosaur anatomy, with maybe some mammal thrown in depending on the type (with hyenas and African wild dogs for Mirrors for example). My weirder dragons (my favs) throw in more piscine and invertebrate bits because dang it I love invertebrates.)
Call me Requacy (Pinging Allowed!)(Note to self: Make art for signature)
@requacy YESSSS excellent, I like that sort of idea. As long as it's not shrinkwrapped, I'm good.
However, I just primarily have to consider the fact that Dragonkind can talk, chew and make complex facial expressions. Those are all either mammalian or very rarely archosaurian traits. That's why I don't really use reptilian jaw structure for my dragons as I want them to be able to move their jaw around more freely. That's one of the reasons why I only show the dentary in my skull reconstruction and not the angular or surangular bones, those just be reduced and absorbed into the skull. As human-like speech is so incredibly complex and requires a ton of different anatomical elements to work, I just prefer to use more mammalian aspects for them. Also, facial muscles have to be incredibly intricate and complex for a creature to be able to emote so that's a wholly different topic. In a tightly-knit or at all reptilian facial structure, smiling, snarling or frowning is completely impossible. That's why I will continue giving my lads stretchy lips hehughjug, but hey, that's just me.
However, I just primarily have to consider the fact that Dragonkind can talk, chew and make complex facial expressions. Those are all either mammalian or very rarely archosaurian traits. That's why I don't really use reptilian jaw structure for my dragons as I want them to be able to move their jaw around more freely. That's one of the reasons why I only show the dentary in my skull reconstruction and not the angular or surangular bones, those just be reduced and absorbed into the skull. As human-like speech is so incredibly complex and requires a ton of different anatomical elements to work, I just prefer to use more mammalian aspects for them. Also, facial muscles have to be incredibly intricate and complex for a creature to be able to emote so that's a wholly different topic. In a tightly-knit or at all reptilian facial structure, smiling, snarling or frowning is completely impossible. That's why I will continue giving my lads stretchy lips hehughjug, but hey, that's just me.
@requacy YESSSS excellent, I like that sort of idea. As long as it's not shrinkwrapped, I'm good.
However, I just primarily have to consider the fact that Dragonkind can talk, chew and make complex facial expressions. Those are all either mammalian or very rarely archosaurian traits. That's why I don't really use reptilian jaw structure for my dragons as I want them to be able to move their jaw around more freely. That's one of the reasons why I only show the dentary in my skull reconstruction and not the angular or surangular bones, those just be reduced and absorbed into the skull. As human-like speech is so incredibly complex and requires a ton of different anatomical elements to work, I just prefer to use more mammalian aspects for them. Also, facial muscles have to be incredibly intricate and complex for a creature to be able to emote so that's a wholly different topic. In a tightly-knit or at all reptilian facial structure, smiling, snarling or frowning is completely impossible. That's why I will continue giving my lads stretchy lips hehughjug, but hey, that's just me.
However, I just primarily have to consider the fact that Dragonkind can talk, chew and make complex facial expressions. Those are all either mammalian or very rarely archosaurian traits. That's why I don't really use reptilian jaw structure for my dragons as I want them to be able to move their jaw around more freely. That's one of the reasons why I only show the dentary in my skull reconstruction and not the angular or surangular bones, those just be reduced and absorbed into the skull. As human-like speech is so incredibly complex and requires a ton of different anatomical elements to work, I just prefer to use more mammalian aspects for them. Also, facial muscles have to be incredibly intricate and complex for a creature to be able to emote so that's a wholly different topic. In a tightly-knit or at all reptilian facial structure, smiling, snarling or frowning is completely impossible. That's why I will continue giving my lads stretchy lips hehughjug, but hey, that's just me.
@Natron
Wow! This is so carefully thought out, I love it!
May I ask if there's a pinglist? I'd love to be pinged if you do updates and such, this is so interesting!
Wow! This is so carefully thought out, I love it!
May I ask if there's a pinglist? I'd love to be pinged if you do updates and such, this is so interesting!
@Natron
Wow! This is so carefully thought out, I love it!
May I ask if there's a pinglist? I'd love to be pinged if you do updates and such, this is so interesting!
Wow! This is so carefully thought out, I love it!
May I ask if there's a pinglist? I'd love to be pinged if you do updates and such, this is so interesting!
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V I V A R I U M | They/It "Venator dolu, vi sentire mal, sento doles."
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@gladiolusxi thank you!!! And unfortunately no :pensive: I really do not have the time to take care of another thread and pinglist this thoroughly as I have dozens of other threads I need to take care of ;; but thank you for your interest! Feel free to sub, perhaps, if you don't mind the occasional ping from random commenters, but it's mostly just me posting in here anyway. This thread was remade....two times I think. Once in FRD, another time in Creative Corner (like this but had only one post and it was awful because you couldn't navigate well), and now it's here ^^
@gladiolusxi thank you!!! And unfortunately no :pensive: I really do not have the time to take care of another thread and pinglist this thoroughly as I have dozens of other threads I need to take care of ;; but thank you for your interest! Feel free to sub, perhaps, if you don't mind the occasional ping from random commenters, but it's mostly just me posting in here anyway. This thread was remade....two times I think. Once in FRD, another time in Creative Corner (like this but had only one post and it was awful because you couldn't navigate well), and now it's here ^^
@Natron
Oh, that's unfortunate but I understand.
And-- Oh yeah! I completely forgot you could subscribe to threads, jkasj...
Thanks! I completely forgot about that feature. (/hl) (/gen)
Oh, that's unfortunate but I understand.
And-- Oh yeah! I completely forgot you could subscribe to threads, jkasj...
Thanks! I completely forgot about that feature. (/hl) (/gen)
@Natron
Oh, that's unfortunate but I understand.
And-- Oh yeah! I completely forgot you could subscribe to threads, jkasj...
Thanks! I completely forgot about that feature. (/hl) (/gen)
Oh, that's unfortunate but I understand.
And-- Oh yeah! I completely forgot you could subscribe to threads, jkasj...
Thanks! I completely forgot about that feature. (/hl) (/gen)
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V I V A R I U M | They/It "Venator dolu, vi sentire mal, sento doles."
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[quote name="@Natron" date="2021-04-23 07:40:18" ]
@/requacy YESSSS excellent, I like that sort of idea. As long as it's not shrinkwrapped, I'm good.
However, I just primarily have to consider the fact that Dragonkind can talk, chew and make complex facial expressions. Those are all either mammalian or very rarely archosaurian traits. That's why I don't really use reptilian jaw structure for my dragons as I want them to be able to move their jaw around more freely. That's one of the reasons why I only show the dentary in my skull reconstruction and not the angular or surangular bones, those just be reduced and absorbed into the skull. As human-like speech is so incredibly complex and requires a ton of different anatomical elements to work, I just prefer to use more mammalian aspects for them. Also, facial muscles have to be incredibly intricate and complex for a creature to be able to emote so that's a wholly different topic. In a tightly-knit or at all reptilian facial structure, smiling, snarling or frowning is completely impossible. That's why I will continue giving my lads stretchy lips hehughjug, but hey, that's just me.
[/quote]
[font=American Gothic][size=4]
Some animal skulls are a bit bonier than others, but most definitely NOT shrinkwrapped. There still are tissues on an alligator face, for example. Nice! My interpretation is below and kinda rambly, oops.
My dragons in my lore kinda have a “Xenofiction translation convention” going on. It’s similar to Swipp’s Fae art not being accurate, to give an example. Just makes it easier to translate for us humans. Dragon language is more similar to archosaurian and reptilian communication than mammalian (which can cause difficulties amongst mammals). Non-verbal communication (body language, scent, etc.) plays just as much, if not even more parts in draconic languages. Learning other languages is most similar to parrot mimicking, with a syrinx being used. The most difficult sounds to pronounce are the ones most common with lips (“buh” “vvv” “mmm” “puh”). Ambassadors to Beastclans often spend their entire lives practicing their vocal mimicking process. Certain species also have easier times, with Skydancers and Nocturnes being the most adept at mimicry and Bogsneaks and Coatls the least. Also facial expressions are more limited (prolonged mouth-opening with hissing substitutes snarling (like snakes)), although the tensing of muscles is used to move cartilage-supported fins, frills, and spines.
As you can guess, in my worldbuildings where humans and dragons can interact, communication can be a nightmare depending on the species.
@Natron wrote on 2021-04-23 07:40:18:
@/requacy YESSSS excellent, I like that sort of idea. As long as it's not shrinkwrapped, I'm good.
However, I just primarily have to consider the fact that Dragonkind can talk, chew and make complex facial expressions. Those are all either mammalian or very rarely archosaurian traits. That's why I don't really use reptilian jaw structure for my dragons as I want them to be able to move their jaw around more freely. That's one of the reasons why I only show the dentary in my skull reconstruction and not the angular or surangular bones, those just be reduced and absorbed into the skull. As human-like speech is so incredibly complex and requires a ton of different anatomical elements to work, I just prefer to use more mammalian aspects for them. Also, facial muscles have to be incredibly intricate and complex for a creature to be able to emote so that's a wholly different topic. In a tightly-knit or at all reptilian facial structure, smiling, snarling or frowning is completely impossible. That's why I will continue giving my lads stretchy lips hehughjug, but hey, that's just me.
However, I just primarily have to consider the fact that Dragonkind can talk, chew and make complex facial expressions. Those are all either mammalian or very rarely archosaurian traits. That's why I don't really use reptilian jaw structure for my dragons as I want them to be able to move their jaw around more freely. That's one of the reasons why I only show the dentary in my skull reconstruction and not the angular or surangular bones, those just be reduced and absorbed into the skull. As human-like speech is so incredibly complex and requires a ton of different anatomical elements to work, I just prefer to use more mammalian aspects for them. Also, facial muscles have to be incredibly intricate and complex for a creature to be able to emote so that's a wholly different topic. In a tightly-knit or at all reptilian facial structure, smiling, snarling or frowning is completely impossible. That's why I will continue giving my lads stretchy lips hehughjug, but hey, that's just me.
Some animal skulls are a bit bonier than others, but most definitely NOT shrinkwrapped. There still are tissues on an alligator face, for example. Nice! My interpretation is below and kinda rambly, oops.
My dragons in my lore kinda have a “Xenofiction translation convention” going on. It’s similar to Swipp’s Fae art not being accurate, to give an example. Just makes it easier to translate for us humans. Dragon language is more similar to archosaurian and reptilian communication than mammalian (which can cause difficulties amongst mammals). Non-verbal communication (body language, scent, etc.) plays just as much, if not even more parts in draconic languages. Learning other languages is most similar to parrot mimicking, with a syrinx being used. The most difficult sounds to pronounce are the ones most common with lips (“buh” “vvv” “mmm” “puh”). Ambassadors to Beastclans often spend their entire lives practicing their vocal mimicking process. Certain species also have easier times, with Skydancers and Nocturnes being the most adept at mimicry and Bogsneaks and Coatls the least. Also facial expressions are more limited (prolonged mouth-opening with hissing substitutes snarling (like snakes)), although the tensing of muscles is used to move cartilage-supported fins, frills, and spines.
As you can guess, in my worldbuildings where humans and dragons can interact, communication can be a nightmare depending on the species.
Call me Requacy (Pinging Allowed!)(Note to self: Make art for signature)