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TOPIC | Gene variants
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[i][/i]----- [center][size=4][color=#680C0C][font=baskerville][b]GENE VARIANTS[/font][/size][/color] ----- This is a suggestion for a new new type of gene - [i][b]variants[/b][/i] (They could also be called mutations, abberations, irregular genes etc) Some genes could have variations available that would change up the gene slightly - adding a slightly different colour in areas, changing the pattern slightly, maybe reducing the gene so it covers less of the dragon etc. When applying a gene scroll to a dragon there could be an option to pick from any gene variants that are available. Here's a mock up of what that could look like (excuse the poor font matching) [img]https://i.imgur.com/yEDjxyv.gif[/img] A 'Scroll of Variance' (Or possibly an 'Unstable Scroll'?) could also be available to craft or purchase. Applying this to a dragon would allow you to change it's gene(s) to variant ones. This could work like the Silhouette Scroll, where once applied you can choose from any variants of applied genes whenever you wish with a tickbox/toggle option menu, or instead could be a single use scroll that changes a single gene once upon use. (Thanks to DragonSage, Jemadar and PersimmonBird) [img]https://i.imgur.com/iaHm1hH.jpg[/img] ----- [center][size=4][color=#680C0C][font=baskerville][b]How would variants work with breeding and passing on genes?[/font][/size][/color] ----- [i]Share your thoughts on how breeding should be affected in the comments. A special thanks to Jemadar, PersimmonBird, vihuff and everyone who puts their thoughts and ideas forward[/i] [b]Option #1[/b] - Normal breeding rules - If a dragon has a variant, then it's offspring will inherit that specific gene variant (or the gene of it's other parent) [b]Option #2[/b] - No change to breeding mechanics - Variations are cosmetic only and cannot occur through breeding. [b]Option #3[/b] - All variations of a gene are a possibility when breeding. The number of breeding outcomes increases but breeding projects and hatcheries will be affected. An additional item could be available to either 'lock down' or 'open up' genes when breeding ------ [center][size=4][color=#680C0C][font=baskerville][b]How would searching for certain genes work in the AH and Predict Morphology?[/font][/size][/color] ----- To avoid cluttering up the list of genes to choose from, a separate drop down box could be added to choose a variant from. This could be greyed out by default until a primary/secondary/tertiary gene is selected, at which time the variant drop down box would then fill with available variations for the genes selected. (Thanks to neonhorns) ----- [center][size=4][color=#680C0C][font=baskerville][b]How would variants work with the daily exalt bonus?[/font][/size][/color] ----- All variations of a gene would be grouped under the classic/original version - for example if the daily exalt bonus was alloy secondary, the lustre example above would count and receive the bonus ----- [center][size=4][color=#680C0C][font=baskerville][b]Pros and cons[/font][/size][/color] ----- [b]Pros[/b] - Variants offer a solution to players affected by some gene art updates. By making a variant that resembles the old art (without errors, so including the shadow layers, all proper lineart etc) players who have invested gems and treasure into gening their dragons only to have the art change would (eventually) have a variation they could pick post update that wouldn't alter their dragon too much, and everyone else can enjoy the updated art of the original gene (the metallic/alloy change is the thing that prompted me to create this suggestion thread) - Breathe new life into old genes. I'd love a reason to get excited about cherub or viper - A lot of new content with very little additional art needed - a lot of variations could be as simple as a new colour change, or deleting parts of the gene such as the side bits of rune tertiary. - More customization! [b]Cons[/b] - While it may not be taxing for the art team, this would take a bit to code and implement - This has potential to disrupt breeding pairs, projects and hatcheries - Breeding changes and how the new gene type works could be confusing ----- [center][size=4][color=#680C0C][font=baskerville][b]Variant suggestions, for fun[/font][/size][/color] ----- [quote] - The old Ghost [img]https://i.imgur.com/SBw4fSn.png[/img] -The unused tapir/striation [img]https://i.imgur.com/FeYGWXy.png[/img] - Wider-spaced Jupiter/Saturn (the first version of the genes that were released) [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813104211289047040/815105570066530334/QUPE3pl.png[/img] - Old iri/shim and new iri/shim as their own variants - Skink with an additional splash of colour at the tip of the tail, like Roundsey - Bland Skink (desaturated) - Bland poison/toxin - Jaguar with no colour on the feet - Jaguar with solid bands on the tail as opposed to the "stretched rosettes" on classic Jaguar - Contour that goes around the edge of the dragon without going across the legs - A variant Contour that has cheetah eye-lines, follows the curves of the neck and belly instead of going down the nose and spine - Smirch without the gradient under it, so it's just a solid colour web - Stained with a gradient - Stained but only covering the body/only covering the wings - Stained with different opacity levels - stained with patterns/shapes masking it - The old reverse clown - Clown with accent colours - Blossom with different flower shapes - Butterfly with a different butterfly species patterning - Petals without the toe markings - Mosaic/breakup with bigger patterns - Empty capsule that's just hollow glass - Capsule with liquid right to the top with no fill line - Capsule that's empty and cracked - Capsule but the liquid looks like slime/sludge - Capsule but the liquid is carbonated - Capsule with stained glass [img]https://i.imgur.com/FBH6RZW.png[/img] (Thanks to PersimmonBird for the stained capsule) - Glimmer with a gradient - Filigree without the stones [img]https://i.imgur.com/VdsVRGs.png[/img] - Filigree with just the face mask - Filigree without the face mask [img]https://i.imgur.com/76eAHzB.png[/img] (Thanks to PersimmonBird for making these filigree examples) - Runes without the feet bits - Runes without the side bits [img]https://i.imgur.com/8hGylFe.png[/img] (Thanks to PersimmonBird for making these rune and thylacine examples) - Thylacine without the gradient under it, so it's solid colour (Example above) - Scales without the side bits - Scales but not on the face - Squiggle without the second colour - Phantom without the spots on the body - Stitch/patch with different patterns - Glowing circuit - Braids with more accent colours - Wraith but ~shiny~ - Beetle with ladybug spots - Trimmings without the wing circles - Candycane/Sugarplum with lighter stripes instead of darker - Marble/Mottle with wider spaces between the markings - Skeletal without the chestpiece/leg pieces - Starmap/Constellation without the white lines - Fans without the webbing under the chin - Fans with less/more opacity - Gaoler fans without the webbing on their heads [img]https://i.ibb.co/x6KLZJj/An-attempt-FIXING-FANS.png[/img] (Thanks to MoonlitCacti for the fanless Gaoler) - Firefly that is brighter and stands out more - Gembond that matches crystal/facet or is more gem-like - Gembond with less stones / only stones on the body - Tiger and stripes with accent colours - High contrast tiger stripes [img]https://i.imgur.com/iaToa7y.png[/img] - Tiger stripes over a gradient [img]https://i.imgur.com/BsdgfvP.png[/img] (Thanks to PersimmonBird for these tiger examples) - Wasp with new secondary colours [img]https://i.imgur.com/cXwsgK3.png[/img] (Caramel) [img]https://i.imgur.com/9L39qeC.png[/img] (Obsidian, coloured to resemble a real wasp. Thanks again to PersimmonBird for these wasp recolours) - Anodized metallic/alloy that has a rainbow shine over it - Electroplated metallic/alloy that's hyper shiny - Tarnished Metallic/alloy with blemishes across it - Paint/piebald with accent colours replacing the white segments - Paint/piebald with different splotch patterning - Paint/piebald with black instead of white - Fade/blend that fades from accent colors on the extremities(snout, limbs, tail, and wingtips) to the main color on the main body - Fade/blend with secondary colours different to the ones currently used - Veined using accent colours so it looks like a vein of ore - Peacock without the shoulder bits - Peacock with extra eyes - New accent colours for pin/trail (could take from poi/tox, nox or skin/spin) - Okapi but reverse the lighter vs darker hue - Keel with streamlined scales [img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/688477574267273315/697865809271193680/guardiankeel.png[/img] (^Keel edit made by Viperfishy) [img]https://i.imgur.com/hwMogwr.png[/img] [img]https://i.imgur.com/VNPTy4M.png[/img] (^Keel edits made by Gurrero) [img]https://i.imgur.com/MLz3LSj.png[/img] [img]https://i.imgur.com/HRp5T4B.png[/img] (^Keel edits made by houseteeth) - Subtle giraffe/hex on Obelisks as it's own gene variant - The 'wrong' underbelly colours for Obelisks as it's own variant [/quote] ----- [center][size=4][color=#680C0C][font=baskerville][b]Similar suggestions worth checking out[/font][/size][/color] ----- - [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/2874603/1][size=5][b]Quarternary Genes[/b][/size][/url] - [quote=disclaimer][size=3][i]This thread has had a rewrite. A copy of the thread before it was changed can be found [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/2911857]in this dragon's bio[/url][/quote]

GENE VARIANTS


This is a suggestion for a new new type of gene - variants
(They could also be called mutations, abberations, irregular genes etc)

Some genes could have variations available that would change up the gene slightly - adding a slightly different colour in areas, changing the pattern slightly, maybe reducing the gene so it covers less of the dragon etc.

When applying a gene scroll to a dragon there could be an option to pick from any gene variants that are available.
Here's a mock up of what that could look like (excuse the poor font matching)

yEDjxyv.gif

A 'Scroll of Variance' (Or possibly an 'Unstable Scroll'?) could also be available to craft or purchase. Applying this to a dragon would allow you to change it's gene(s) to variant ones. This could work like the Silhouette Scroll, where once applied you can choose from any variants of applied genes whenever you wish with a tickbox/toggle option menu, or instead could be a single use scroll that changes a single gene once upon use. (Thanks to DragonSage, Jemadar and PersimmonBird)

iaHm1hH.jpg

How would variants work with breeding and passing on genes?


Share your thoughts on how breeding should be affected in the comments. A special thanks to Jemadar, PersimmonBird, vihuff and everyone who puts their thoughts and ideas forward

Option #1 - Normal breeding rules - If a dragon has a variant, then it's offspring will inherit that specific gene variant (or the gene of it's other parent)

Option #2 - No change to breeding mechanics - Variations are cosmetic only and cannot occur through breeding.

Option #3 - All variations of a gene are a possibility when breeding. The number of breeding outcomes increases but breeding projects and hatcheries will be affected. An additional item could be available to either 'lock down' or 'open up' genes when breeding

How would searching for certain genes work in the AH and Predict Morphology?


To avoid cluttering up the list of genes to choose from, a separate drop down box could be added to choose a variant from. This could be greyed out by default until a primary/secondary/tertiary gene is selected, at which time the variant drop down box would then fill with available variations for the genes selected. (Thanks to neonhorns)

How would variants work with the daily exalt bonus?


All variations of a gene would be grouped under the classic/original version - for example if the daily exalt bonus was alloy secondary, the lustre example above would count and receive the bonus

Pros and cons


Pros

- Variants offer a solution to players affected by some gene art updates. By making a variant that resembles the old art (without errors, so including the shadow layers, all proper lineart etc) players who have invested gems and treasure into gening their dragons only to have the art change would (eventually) have a variation they could pick post update that wouldn't alter their dragon too much, and everyone else can enjoy the updated art of the original gene (the metallic/alloy change is the thing that prompted me to create this suggestion thread)

- Breathe new life into old genes. I'd love a reason to get excited about cherub or viper

- A lot of new content with very little additional art needed - a lot of variations could be as simple as a new colour change, or deleting parts of the gene such as the side bits of rune tertiary.

- More customization!

Cons

- While it may not be taxing for the art team, this would take a bit to code and implement

- This has potential to disrupt breeding pairs, projects and hatcheries

- Breeding changes and how the new gene type works could be confusing

Variant suggestions, for fun

Quote:
- The old Ghost
SBw4fSn.png

-The unused tapir/striation
FeYGWXy.png

- Wider-spaced Jupiter/Saturn (the first version of the genes that were released)
QUPE3pl.png

- Old iri/shim and new iri/shim as their own variants

- Skink with an additional splash of colour at the tip of the tail, like Roundsey
- Bland Skink (desaturated)

- Bland poison/toxin

- Jaguar with no colour on the feet
- Jaguar with solid bands on the tail as opposed to the "stretched rosettes" on classic Jaguar

- Contour that goes around the edge of the dragon without going across the legs
- A variant Contour that has cheetah eye-lines, follows the curves of the neck and belly instead of going down the nose and spine

- Smirch without the gradient under it, so it's just a solid colour web

- Stained with a gradient
- Stained but only covering the body/only covering the wings
- Stained with different opacity levels
- stained with patterns/shapes masking it

- The old reverse clown
- Clown with accent colours

- Blossom with different flower shapes

- Butterfly with a different butterfly species patterning
- Petals without the toe markings

- Mosaic/breakup with bigger patterns

- Empty capsule that's just hollow glass
- Capsule with liquid right to the top with no fill line
- Capsule that's empty and cracked
- Capsule but the liquid looks like slime/sludge
- Capsule but the liquid is carbonated
- Capsule with stained glass
FBH6RZW.png
(Thanks to PersimmonBird for the stained capsule)

- Glimmer with a gradient

- Filigree without the stones
VdsVRGs.png
- Filigree with just the face mask
- Filigree without the face mask
76eAHzB.png
(Thanks to PersimmonBird for making these filigree examples)

- Runes without the feet bits
- Runes without the side bits
8hGylFe.png
(Thanks to PersimmonBird for making these rune and thylacine examples)

- Thylacine without the gradient under it, so it's solid colour (Example above)

- Scales without the side bits
- Scales but not on the face

- Squiggle without the second colour

- Phantom without the spots on the body

- Stitch/patch with different patterns

- Glowing circuit

- Braids with more accent colours

- Wraith but ~shiny~

- Beetle with ladybug spots

- Trimmings without the wing circles

- Candycane/Sugarplum with lighter stripes instead of darker

- Marble/Mottle with wider spaces between the markings

- Skeletal without the chestpiece/leg pieces

- Starmap/Constellation without the white lines

- Fans without the webbing under the chin
- Fans with less/more opacity
- Gaoler fans without the webbing on their heads
An-attempt-FIXING-FANS.png
(Thanks to MoonlitCacti for the fanless Gaoler)

- Firefly that is brighter and stands out more

- Gembond that matches crystal/facet or is more gem-like
- Gembond with less stones / only stones on the body

- Tiger and stripes with accent colours
- High contrast tiger stripes
iaToa7y.png
- Tiger stripes over a gradient
BsdgfvP.png
(Thanks to PersimmonBird for these tiger examples)

- Wasp with new secondary colours
cXwsgK3.png
(Caramel)
9L39qeC.png
(Obsidian, coloured to resemble a real wasp. Thanks again to PersimmonBird for these wasp recolours)

- Anodized metallic/alloy that has a rainbow shine over it
- Electroplated metallic/alloy that's hyper shiny
- Tarnished Metallic/alloy with blemishes across it

- Paint/piebald with accent colours replacing the white segments
- Paint/piebald with different splotch patterning
- Paint/piebald with black instead of white

- Fade/blend that fades from accent colors on the extremities(snout, limbs, tail, and wingtips) to the main color on the main body
- Fade/blend with secondary colours different to the ones currently used

- Veined using accent colours so it looks like a vein of ore

- Peacock without the shoulder bits
- Peacock with extra eyes

- New accent colours for pin/trail (could take from poi/tox, nox or skin/spin)

- Okapi but reverse the lighter vs darker hue

- Keel with streamlined scales
guardiankeel.png
(^Keel edit made by Viperfishy)
hwMogwr.png
VNPTy4M.png
(^Keel edits made by Gurrero)
MLz3LSj.png
HRp5T4B.png
(^Keel edits made by houseteeth)

- Subtle giraffe/hex on Obelisks as it's own gene variant
- The 'wrong' underbelly colours for Obelisks as it's own variant

Similar suggestions worth checking out

- Quarternary Genes -

disclaimer wrote:
This thread has had a rewrite. A copy of the thread before it was changed can be found in this dragon's bio
While I do not necessarily oppose to this idea, I wonder how do the genes pass down to offsprings? If normal metallic was chosen when apply, then breed, would the offspring has a chance to 'choose' which variation it has, or whatever parents have will pass down? And if I buy a dragon with metallic variant, would I need to apply metallic scroll again if I want a different variant of metallic?
While I do not necessarily oppose to this idea, I wonder how do the genes pass down to offsprings? If normal metallic was chosen when apply, then breed, would the offspring has a chance to 'choose' which variation it has, or whatever parents have will pass down? And if I buy a dragon with metallic variant, would I need to apply metallic scroll again if I want a different variant of metallic?
hatfrbanner-zps77e423a6_orig.pngpinksaphire-zpsf5iyzhbb_orig.gif
[quote name="hat17" date="2020-01-07 22:12:38" ] While I do not necessarily oppose to this idea, I wonder how do the genes pass down to offsprings? If normal metallic was chosen when apply, then breed, would the offspring has a chance to 'choose' which variation it has, or whatever parents have will pass down? And if I buy a dragon with metallic variant, would I need to apply metallic scroll again if I want a different variant of metallic? [/quote] Thisi s how I feel. It is an interesting idea, and if the kinks were worked out, I could potentially see it add either a great deal of fun or a great deal of frustration to the game. I would assume at least, though, that if you wanted a different variant of a gene, you would have to apply another gene scroll. I personally think this might be a fun idea, if done well, and could add some 'randomness' to the game that players have been asking for, while still not adding true randomness. IE, I will still get a metallic gene, but I might get a variant of the gene. Or it could be done where perhaps there is either a way to 'lock' genes to one variant, so only that variant can pass down to offspring, or a way to 'unlock' genes, so that the variants can pass down (it would be one or the other, depending on whether the developers feel that more people would prefer to buy an item to allow the variants to pass down, or more people would prefer to have the randomness inherant in the gene, and instead lock the pairs they want to have specific variants) You also sort of had me at the contour that doesnt go across their legs, I hate that about that particular gene. Other variants I would love to see: Filigree without the face mask Runes without the dipped in paint feet.
hat17 wrote on 2020-01-07 22:12:38:
While I do not necessarily oppose to this idea, I wonder how do the genes pass down to offsprings? If normal metallic was chosen when apply, then breed, would the offspring has a chance to 'choose' which variation it has, or whatever parents have will pass down? And if I buy a dragon with metallic variant, would I need to apply metallic scroll again if I want a different variant of metallic?
Thisi s how I feel.

It is an interesting idea, and if the kinks were worked out, I could potentially see it add either a great deal of fun or a great deal of frustration to the game.

I would assume at least, though, that if you wanted a different variant of a gene, you would have to apply another gene scroll.

I personally think this might be a fun idea, if done well, and could add some 'randomness' to the game that players have been asking for, while still not adding true randomness.

IE, I will still get a metallic gene, but I might get a variant of the gene.

Or it could be done where perhaps there is either a way to 'lock' genes to one variant, so only that variant can pass down to offspring, or a way to 'unlock' genes, so that the variants can pass down (it would be one or the other, depending on whether the developers feel that more people would prefer to buy an item to allow the variants to pass down, or more people would prefer to have the randomness inherant in the gene, and instead lock the pairs they want to have specific variants)

You also sort of had me at the contour that doesnt go across their legs, I hate that about that particular gene.

Other variants I would love to see:

Filigree without the face mask
Runes without the dipped in paint feet.

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[quote name="hat17" date="2020-01-07 22:12:38" ] While I do not necessarily oppose to this idea, I wonder how do the genes pass down to offsprings? If normal metallic was chosen when apply, then breed, would the offspring has a chance to 'choose' which variation it has, or whatever parents have will pass down? And if I buy a dragon with metallic variant, would I need to apply metallic scroll again if I want a different variant of metallic? [/quote] A good question - perhaps these variants are only available if you choose them when applying a gene scroll, and wouldn't otherwise affect the genes when breeding?
hat17 wrote on 2020-01-07 22:12:38:
While I do not necessarily oppose to this idea, I wonder how do the genes pass down to offsprings? If normal metallic was chosen when apply, then breed, would the offspring has a chance to 'choose' which variation it has, or whatever parents have will pass down? And if I buy a dragon with metallic variant, would I need to apply metallic scroll again if I want a different variant of metallic?
A good question - perhaps these variants are only available if you choose them when applying a gene scroll, and wouldn't otherwise affect the genes when breeding?
[quote name="Jemadar" date="2020-01-07 22:25:59" ] Or it could be done where perhaps there is either a way to 'lock' genes to one variant, so only that variant can pass down to offspring, or a way to 'unlock' genes, so that the variants can pass down (it would be one or the other, depending on whether the developers feel that more people would prefer to buy an item to allow the variants to pass down, or more people would prefer to have the randomness inherant in the gene, and instead lock the pairs they want to have specific variants [/quote] I also like this idea, the ability to lock down a gene would allow for the ability to breed for that type of variant without adding too many more possibilities to muck up something you're breeding for
Jemadar wrote on 2020-01-07 22:25:59:
Or it could be done where perhaps there is either a way to 'lock' genes to one variant, so only that variant can pass down to offspring, or a way to 'unlock' genes, so that the variants can pass down (it would be one or the other, depending on whether the developers feel that more people would prefer to buy an item to allow the variants to pass down, or more people would prefer to have the randomness inherant in the gene, and instead lock the pairs they want to have specific variants

I also like this idea, the ability to lock down a gene would allow for the ability to breed for that type of variant without adding too many more possibilities to muck up something you're breeding for
[quote name="hat17" date="2020-01-07 22:12:38" ] While I do not necessarily oppose to this idea, I wonder how do the genes pass down to offsprings? If normal metallic was chosen when apply, then breed, would the offspring has a chance to 'choose' which variation it has, or whatever parents have will pass down? And if I buy a dragon with metallic variant, would I need to apply metallic scroll again if I want a different variant of metallic? [/quote] I think these are good points that would need to be addressed and worked out. Though for changing from one metallic version to another perhaps a second item in the 10-50kt (treasure not gems I think would be best) range that you can apply to switch the variant? And then a one-time release of some via Galore for this instance since some people got burned. This would have the benefit of not clogging the MP/AH with even more duplicate versions of the same gene*. You'd have one item that comes with two choices when you apply. And then an item that would flip between the choices for dragons where it's already there. *which is a con I've seen listed for similar concepts with variant genes
hat17 wrote on 2020-01-07 22:12:38:
While I do not necessarily oppose to this idea, I wonder how do the genes pass down to offsprings? If normal metallic was chosen when apply, then breed, would the offspring has a chance to 'choose' which variation it has, or whatever parents have will pass down? And if I buy a dragon with metallic variant, would I need to apply metallic scroll again if I want a different variant of metallic?


I think these are good points that would need to be addressed and worked out. Though for changing from one metallic version to another perhaps a second item in the 10-50kt (treasure not gems I think would be best) range that you can apply to switch the variant? And then a one-time release of some via Galore for this instance since some people got burned.

This would have the benefit of not clogging the MP/AH with even more duplicate versions of the same gene*. You'd have one item that comes with two choices when you apply. And then an item that would flip between the choices for dragons where it's already there.

*which is a con I've seen listed for similar concepts with variant genes
[quote name="Tuatara" date="2020-01-07 22:28:43" ] [quote name="Jemadar" date="2020-01-07 22:25:59" ] Or it could be done where perhaps there is either a way to 'lock' genes to one variant, so only that variant can pass down to offspring, or a way to 'unlock' genes, so that the variants can pass down (it would be one or the other, depending on whether the developers feel that more people would prefer to buy an item to allow the variants to pass down, or more people would prefer to have the randomness inherant in the gene, and instead lock the pairs they want to have specific variants [/quote] I also like this idea, the ability to lock down a gene would allow for the ability to breed for that type of variant without adding too many more possibilities to muck up something you're breeding for [/quote] That is what I was thinking. For some people, they wouldn't want potentially dozens of variants (depending on the gene and how creative the team gets :D) mucking up the chances to get the variant they want on their hatchlings. However, other players definitely would like the randomness of being able to get multiple genes, especially for the cost of two (ie if each gene had 3 variants, then you could potentially have 6 gene outcomes for the offspring, they would be variants of the two parent ones, but still potentially six different looking genes) (also, these could be the same players. I know that I might have some pairs I only want the variant I chose on them, while others I might want as much randomness as possible) [quote name="PersimmonBird" date="2020-01-07 22:29:28" ] [quote name="hat17" date="2020-01-07 22:12:38" ] While I do not necessarily oppose to this idea, I wonder how do the genes pass down to offsprings? If normal metallic was chosen when apply, then breed, would the offspring has a chance to 'choose' which variation it has, or whatever parents have will pass down? And if I buy a dragon with metallic variant, would I need to apply metallic scroll again if I want a different variant of metallic? [/quote] I think these are good points that would need to be addressed and worked out. Though for changing from one metallic version to another perhaps a second item in the 10-50kt (treasure not gems I think would be best) range that you can apply to switch the variant? And then a one-time release of some via Galore for this instance since some people got burned. This would have the benefit of not clogging the MP/AH with even more duplicate versions of the same gene. You'd have one item that comes with two choices when you apply. And then an item that would flip between the choices for dragons where it's already there. [/quote] I never thought of having it be an item that could be used. That would be best, as it would also be a good treasure sink. For instance, I saw people who liked the mistake met/all much better, and if they were able, I am sure would apply it to their non-bane dragons. Some of these players may already have met/all dragons, so they wouldn't want to buy another gem gene to apply a variant, but would potentially be willing to spend treasure to be able to change the genes. and it would also cut down on the fear that I have about 'knock off' genes, especially if one gene is expensive while the other isn't. If the icons look too similar then players could take the cheaper gene and try to pass it off as the more expensive one. With this, it wouldn't be possible, because all 'knock off' or variants would be under the one gene listing.
Tuatara wrote on 2020-01-07 22:28:43:
Jemadar wrote on 2020-01-07 22:25:59:
Or it could be done where perhaps there is either a way to 'lock' genes to one variant, so only that variant can pass down to offspring, or a way to 'unlock' genes, so that the variants can pass down (it would be one or the other, depending on whether the developers feel that more people would prefer to buy an item to allow the variants to pass down, or more people would prefer to have the randomness inherant in the gene, and instead lock the pairs they want to have specific variants

I also like this idea, the ability to lock down a gene would allow for the ability to breed for that type of variant without adding too many more possibilities to muck up something you're breeding for
That is what I was thinking.

For some people, they wouldn't want potentially dozens of variants (depending on the gene and how creative the team gets :D) mucking up the chances to get the variant they want on their hatchlings.

However, other players definitely would like the randomness of being able to get multiple genes, especially for the cost of two (ie if each gene had 3 variants, then you could potentially have 6 gene outcomes for the offspring, they would be variants of the two parent ones, but still potentially six different looking genes)

(also, these could be the same players. I know that I might have some pairs I only want the variant I chose on them, while others I might want as much randomness as possible)
PersimmonBird wrote on 2020-01-07 22:29:28:
hat17 wrote on 2020-01-07 22:12:38:
While I do not necessarily oppose to this idea, I wonder how do the genes pass down to offsprings? If normal metallic was chosen when apply, then breed, would the offspring has a chance to 'choose' which variation it has, or whatever parents have will pass down? And if I buy a dragon with metallic variant, would I need to apply metallic scroll again if I want a different variant of metallic?


I think these are good points that would need to be addressed and worked out. Though for changing from one metallic version to another perhaps a second item in the 10-50kt (treasure not gems I think would be best) range that you can apply to switch the variant? And then a one-time release of some via Galore for this instance since some people got burned.

This would have the benefit of not clogging the MP/AH with even more duplicate versions of the same gene. You'd have one item that comes with two choices when you apply. And then an item that would flip between the choices for dragons where it's already there.
I never thought of having it be an item that could be used. That would be best, as it would also be a good treasure sink.

For instance, I saw people who liked the mistake met/all much better, and if they were able, I am sure would apply it to their non-bane dragons. Some of these players may already have met/all dragons, so they wouldn't want to buy another gem gene to apply a variant, but would potentially be willing to spend treasure to be able to change the genes.

and it would also cut down on the fear that I have about 'knock off' genes, especially if one gene is expensive while the other isn't. If the icons look too similar then players could take the cheaper gene and try to pass it off as the more expensive one. With this, it wouldn't be possible, because all 'knock off' or variants would be under the one gene listing.

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Huh, this is a fascinating idea. It'd be really cool to see variants. One common and currently unable-to-be-addressed request is changes to small things about genes - things that are too minute to merit their own separate gene and too disruptive to change the existing lineart, but could fit nicely here.

This would solve both the Squiggle and the Metallic/Alloy problems and create room for both types of Iridescent and Shimmer... the breeding could be tricky to implement, but if it's possible, it has the potential to change so much for the better.
Huh, this is a fascinating idea. It'd be really cool to see variants. One common and currently unable-to-be-addressed request is changes to small things about genes - things that are too minute to merit their own separate gene and too disruptive to change the existing lineart, but could fit nicely here.

This would solve both the Squiggle and the Metallic/Alloy problems and create room for both types of Iridescent and Shimmer... the breeding could be tricky to implement, but if it's possible, it has the potential to change so much for the better.
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An item also has the benefit of including all the existing dragons without requiring them to be completely re-gened.
Which I think could be a sticking point especially on other potential variants that provide small visual changes, like Runes without the feet markings or Scales without the side bits.
There might be a lot more people who'd prefer that 2nd version but aren't willing to pay the full price of the gene for each dragon that they'd want it on when they already have that gene applied so the benefit is limited to a change in minor details.

I've mentioned before I think small but consistently/frequently used sinks are a really useful thing for the site, because lots more will open up their wallets (or hoard in this case) for a small cost -even one they use multiple times- than will for something 10x more expensive. Sell cheaply to many, and all that. This could work very well for that.

And it leaves more room for future variants of the same gene without people getting frustrated with the mounting costs and paying twice or three times for little differences that roll out later on.

I'd guess that the simplest way for breeding would be if each variant has a 50/50 chance of passing on with another dragon with the same gene but a different variant, and 100% variant expression if it's against a different gene, while rarity for the gene itself remains the same.

But a randomness factor in gene variants could be really neat, and with a low priced item to change the variant if you get an unwanted one having that as an option might be worth the extra complications. Especially if there was an opt-in factor to it.

Edit: aaaaand I see I reiterated some of what was already said, sorry about that! I had a tab open and was typing in between other things and didnt keep up with other comments well enough.

An item also has the benefit of including all the existing dragons without requiring them to be completely re-gened.
Which I think could be a sticking point especially on other potential variants that provide small visual changes, like Runes without the feet markings or Scales without the side bits.
There might be a lot more people who'd prefer that 2nd version but aren't willing to pay the full price of the gene for each dragon that they'd want it on when they already have that gene applied so the benefit is limited to a change in minor details.

I've mentioned before I think small but consistently/frequently used sinks are a really useful thing for the site, because lots more will open up their wallets (or hoard in this case) for a small cost -even one they use multiple times- than will for something 10x more expensive. Sell cheaply to many, and all that. This could work very well for that.

And it leaves more room for future variants of the same gene without people getting frustrated with the mounting costs and paying twice or three times for little differences that roll out later on.

I'd guess that the simplest way for breeding would be if each variant has a 50/50 chance of passing on with another dragon with the same gene but a different variant, and 100% variant expression if it's against a different gene, while rarity for the gene itself remains the same.

But a randomness factor in gene variants could be really neat, and with a low priced item to change the variant if you get an unwanted one having that as an option might be worth the extra complications. Especially if there was an opt-in factor to it.

Edit: aaaaand I see I reiterated some of what was already said, sorry about that! I had a tab open and was typing in between other things and didnt keep up with other comments well enough.

And since I didn't say it before, I think this is a great concept that opens up a ton of really fantastic possibilities.
So the idea Tuatara has come up with definitely gets my support. And I hope staff really give this some consideration. It benefits players in several ways AND gives staff more options for dealing with both things like the current problem with bane met/all (and iri/shim too!) and requests for aesthetic changes to existing genes, and it even leaves room for things like mutations.

That's incredibly versatile.


And since I didn't say it before, I think this is a great concept that opens up a ton of really fantastic possibilities.
So the idea Tuatara has come up with definitely gets my support. And I hope staff really give this some consideration. It benefits players in several ways AND gives staff more options for dealing with both things like the current problem with bane met/all (and iri/shim too!) and requests for aesthetic changes to existing genes, and it even leaves room for things like mutations.

That's incredibly versatile.


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