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TOPIC | Coliseum Grinding/Exalting Guide
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@Kiena
Thanks for taking the time to reply! ill figure it out when i get enough treasure to afford a tinicture!
@Kiena
Thanks for taking the time to reply! ill figure it out when i get enough treasure to afford a tinicture!
I dunno what to put here.
Your guide is great! Training some my dergs right now according to it~
Your guide is great! Training some my dergs right now according to it~
hagaglglglgl
[b]Most recent update Jan 17 2019:[/b] Thanks to Maki for testing the [url=http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/gde/1344211/15#post_37194697]2.0 stat requirements for Harpy's Roost[/url], we have some revisions to the build: 108 STR [b]74[/b] QCK [b]40[/b] VIT [b]14[/b] DEF While 108 STR remains consistent, 2.0's fixing of QCK turns has given us an extra turn in the beginning and slightly altered the relative turn order. Usually less QCK is needed to achieve a similar effect to 1.0. The reduction of QCK also allows us to hit a higher VIT/DEF threshold, where the balance of defensive stats grants more effective health after attacks. --- The information below was all posted before Coliseum 2.0. Some of it is still viable but please check the new recommended stats balance linked at the top of this post. @Kiena - I've finally found some time to test my boss-killing solo trainer Harpy's Roost build some more, and I've decided on a few stat shifts for improvements. After analyzing the different packs and damage intake vs. recovery time, I no longer recommend the stat mix that I mentioned [url=http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/gde/937136/101#18878771]here[/url]. Instead, I recommend the following: [img]http://imgur.com/WI1nBXa.png[/img] [size=6][b]Stones[/b][/size] [u][b]Required:[/b][/u] Scratch, Eliminate, Rally, Haste Ambush x2 Berserker x3 [u][b]Conditional:[/b][/u] The last stone depends on your element and your goals. If you want an occasional chance of killing bosses and you have an effective element (see boss section below), I recommend the elemental Slash attack. Shred is an option if you're good at managing bleed timers on bosses. If you don't care about bosses, Sap is for you. There are several places you can weave it in, including against Storm Seekers, which are very low level and their lower DEF will allow you to get more health back. [size=6][b]Stats[/b][/size] I recommend the [b]Wind[/b] element, as it's resistant to many things, only takes extra damage from physical element monsters (which you should kill before they get Breath to Slash you), and is super effective against the Arcane boss. [b]108 STR[/b] still remains constant. It's all you need to Rally Eliminate anything but bosses. It's especially important to get this much STR to knock out the Aviars in one hit because they often show up in quantities of 3, sometimes in 4-packs. [b]75 QCK[/b] is bumped down from my initial recommendation of 76 QCK. Although 76 QCK has huge benefits over 75 QCK in Ghostlight Ruins because of the prevalence of triple 47 QCK packs, the Roost does not have many of these situations. The only place in Harpy's Roost where 76 QCK is superior (and only slightly) is the Bluemoon Aviar - Bluemoon Aviar - Stonewatch Harpy - Masked Harpy pack; if you kill the Masked Harpy (not anything else!) first, you get to kill the Stonewatch Harpy before it moves. (This is only true when casting Haste as the first move. If you straight up Rally and kill the Masked Harpy first, 75 QCK works too.) There is too little benefit compared to dropping the 1 QCK for extra stats. Finally, I recommend an exact combination of [b]38 VIT[/b] and [b]15 DEF[/b]. For the full benefit, this mix is non-negotiable. (It may change if new monsters of different STR are introduced, but for now, this is the best defensive balance.) With the current stat balance available, I no longer recommend INT to take advantage of buff healing, even with heavy Rally and Haste use. While the heals may look nice on paper when considering battles over time, the DEF always reduces damage, while the INT heals are wasted when you're at full HP, and you can't realistically cast many buffs during a fight. The stronger a monster is, the more DEF shows its effectiveness. Here are some examples of Harpy's Roost situations with different defensive mixes, going from strongest monster to weakest: [b][u]Roc / Crowned Roc[/u][/b] (64 STR) 38 VIT, 15 DEF: 22 HP after 6 Scratches 37 VIT, 17 DEF: 14 HP after 6 Scratches 38 VIT, 15 INT, 5 DEF: KO after 6 Scratches, requires 5 non-wasted buff heals before getting hit 6 times to live 37 VIT, 17 INT, 5 DEF: KO after 6 Scratches, requires 4 non-wasted buff heals before getting hit 6 times to live [b][u]Blue Moon Aviar[/u][/b] (55 STR) 38 VIT, 15 DEF: 26 HP after 7 Scratches 37 VIT, 17 DEF: 20 HP after 7 Scratches 38 VIT, 15 INT, 5 DEF: KO after 7 Scratches, requires 5 non-wasted buff heals before getting hit 7 times to live 37 VIT, 17 INT, 5 DEF: KO after 7 Scratches, requires 6 non-wasted buff heals before getting hit 7 times to live [b][u]Cloud Dancer[/u][/b] (40 STR) 38 VIT, 15 DEF: 142 HP after 9 Scratches 37 VIT, 17 DEF: 140 HP after 9 Scratches 38 VIT, 15 INT, 5 DEF: 16 HP after 9 Scratches, requires 9 non-wasted buff heals to match 38 VIT / 15 DEF performance 37 VIT, 17 INT, 5 DEF: KO after 9 Scratches, requires 1 non-wasted buff heal before getting hit 9 times to live [size=6][b]Killing bosses[/b][/size] With this solo trainer build, sometimes you can kill bosses. You need to accept that if you run into bosses when the conditions aren't right, you've got very little chance of killing them, bar significant luck. Conversely, if the conditions are met, you have a really good chance of killing the bosses, which is why I find this build so cool. I have killed dozens of bosses with my solo trainer in Harpy's Roost. Think of boss kills as an occasional bonus of this build, not as a focus; if you really just want to kill bosses and don't care about training fodder, using 3 dragons (instead of 1) is the most effortless way to do so. [b][u]Roc (Arcane)[/u][/b] Starting at 1241 HP (82%) and 92+ Breath with Gust Slash, Rock Slash, or Jungle Slash is best, and if you don't have those, 1489 HP (99%) and 85+ Breath is best for your success. With a Wind dragon, you need 7 Rallied Gust Slash and 1 Rallied Scratch to kill it. Buff starting with your very first turn, and then when buffs fall off. Always cast Haste before Rally if you're casting both buffs. (Obviously skip one if you don't need one, depending on the situation.) You can crit or miss randomly, so you'll have to make your own cast decisions depending on the situation. Since Haste and Rally last 5 turns each, you'd be casting them twice per fight, netting you 20 total extra Breath. This means that if you start the battle with 92 Breath, you'll have enough for your required Gust Slashes by the end of the fight (after casting all your buffs). If you have fodder, chances are that they'll take a hit each for you before the boss kills you or dies. You have a good chance of it if you start the fight with 1241 HP (82%) or above, unless you miss, get crit, or get hit by Shred. You can also get lucky and dodge or crit, but don't count on those unless you feel like gambling. The strategy is different if you don't have Gust Slash, Rock Slash, or Jungle Slash (which means you need a Wind, Earth, or Nature dragon), and the boss is harder without those. Don't fight this boss at all if you have Lightning, Shadow, or Light dragons, unless you're feeling lucky or bored; Rune Slash will hit them extra hard. You can try the strategy I suggest for Crowned Roc below if you've got any of the other elements, but keep in mind that only Arcane and Nature dragons would resist Rune Slash. [b][u]Crowned Roc (Wind)[/u][/b] Starting at 1489 HP (99%) and 85+ Breath is best for your success, unless you have Wave Slash, Blinding Slash, or Mist Slash, in which case you can start with 1241 HP (82%) and 92+ Breath. Without Wave Slash, Blinding Slash, or Mist Slash, you need 3 Rally Eliminates and 8 Rally Scratches to kill it. (The last Scratch doesn't need to be Rallied.) Due to the Breath programming bug, you won't usually be able to have above 85 Breath from your previous battle, meaning that getting in the 4th Eliminate before dying is quite unfeasible. Realistically, you'll want to start at 85 Breath. Haste and Rally will give you an extra 10 Breath, leaving you at 60 Breath after the first Eliminate. Make sure that you never Eliminate without Rally, and you should always have Haste up before renewing Rally. In between, you should be Scratching up Breath for extra Eliminates. Getting hit by Shred will make things hard for you, but if you resist Gust Slash, you can hope that the boss uses it on you because that makes you take less damage than Scratch. Gust Slash is not used as often, however, and it costs the boss more Breath. If you have a Water, Light, or Shadow dragon with Wave Slash, Blinding Slash, or Mist Slash, you can kill this boss more easily using the same strategy as I recommend for the Arcane Roc above. Don't fight this boss at all if you have Earth, Lightning, or Arcane dragons, unless you're feeling lucky or bored; Gust Slash will hit them extra hard. Keep in mind that only Wind or Water dragons would resist Gust Slash.
Most recent update Jan 17 2019: Thanks to Maki for testing the 2.0 stat requirements for Harpy's Roost, we have some revisions to the build:

108 STR
74 QCK
40 VIT
14 DEF

While 108 STR remains consistent, 2.0's fixing of QCK turns has given us an extra turn in the beginning and slightly altered the relative turn order. Usually less QCK is needed to achieve a similar effect to 1.0. The reduction of QCK also allows us to hit a higher VIT/DEF threshold, where the balance of defensive stats grants more effective health after attacks.

---

The information below was all posted before Coliseum 2.0. Some of it is still viable but please check the new recommended stats balance linked at the top of this post.

@Kiena - I've finally found some time to test my boss-killing solo trainer Harpy's Roost build some more, and I've decided on a few stat shifts for improvements. After analyzing the different packs and damage intake vs. recovery time, I no longer recommend the stat mix that I mentioned here. Instead, I recommend the following:

WI1nBXa.png

Stones

Required:

Scratch, Eliminate, Rally, Haste
Ambush x2
Berserker x3

Conditional:

The last stone depends on your element and your goals.

If you want an occasional chance of killing bosses and you have an effective element (see boss section below), I recommend the elemental Slash attack. Shred is an option if you're good at managing bleed timers on bosses.

If you don't care about bosses, Sap is for you. There are several places you can weave it in, including against Storm Seekers, which are very low level and their lower DEF will allow you to get more health back.

Stats

I recommend the Wind element, as it's resistant to many things, only takes extra damage from physical element monsters (which you should kill before they get Breath to Slash you), and is super effective against the Arcane boss.

108 STR still remains constant. It's all you need to Rally Eliminate anything but bosses. It's especially important to get this much STR to knock out the Aviars in one hit because they often show up in quantities of 3, sometimes in 4-packs.

75 QCK is bumped down from my initial recommendation of 76 QCK. Although 76 QCK has huge benefits over 75 QCK in Ghostlight Ruins because of the prevalence of triple 47 QCK packs, the Roost does not have many of these situations. The only place in Harpy's Roost where 76 QCK is superior (and only slightly) is the Bluemoon Aviar - Bluemoon Aviar - Stonewatch Harpy - Masked Harpy pack; if you kill the Masked Harpy (not anything else!) first, you get to kill the Stonewatch Harpy before it moves. (This is only true when casting Haste as the first move. If you straight up Rally and kill the Masked Harpy first, 75 QCK works too.) There is too little benefit compared to dropping the 1 QCK for extra stats.

Finally, I recommend an exact combination of 38 VIT and 15 DEF. For the full benefit, this mix is non-negotiable. (It may change if new monsters of different STR are introduced, but for now, this is the best defensive balance.)

With the current stat balance available, I no longer recommend INT to take advantage of buff healing, even with heavy Rally and Haste use. While the heals may look nice on paper when considering battles over time, the DEF always reduces damage, while the INT heals are wasted when you're at full HP, and you can't realistically cast many buffs during a fight. The stronger a monster is, the more DEF shows its effectiveness.

Here are some examples of Harpy's Roost situations with different defensive mixes, going from strongest monster to weakest:

Roc / Crowned Roc (64 STR)

38 VIT, 15 DEF: 22 HP after 6 Scratches
37 VIT, 17 DEF: 14 HP after 6 Scratches
38 VIT, 15 INT, 5 DEF: KO after 6 Scratches, requires 5 non-wasted buff heals before getting hit 6 times to live
37 VIT, 17 INT, 5 DEF: KO after 6 Scratches, requires 4 non-wasted buff heals before getting hit 6 times to live

Blue Moon Aviar (55 STR)

38 VIT, 15 DEF: 26 HP after 7 Scratches
37 VIT, 17 DEF: 20 HP after 7 Scratches
38 VIT, 15 INT, 5 DEF: KO after 7 Scratches, requires 5 non-wasted buff heals before getting hit 7 times to live
37 VIT, 17 INT, 5 DEF: KO after 7 Scratches, requires 6 non-wasted buff heals before getting hit 7 times to live

Cloud Dancer (40 STR)

38 VIT, 15 DEF: 142 HP after 9 Scratches
37 VIT, 17 DEF: 140 HP after 9 Scratches
38 VIT, 15 INT, 5 DEF: 16 HP after 9 Scratches, requires 9 non-wasted buff heals to match 38 VIT / 15 DEF performance
37 VIT, 17 INT, 5 DEF: KO after 9 Scratches, requires 1 non-wasted buff heal before getting hit 9 times to live

Killing bosses

With this solo trainer build, sometimes you can kill bosses. You need to accept that if you run into bosses when the conditions aren't right, you've got very little chance of killing them, bar significant luck. Conversely, if the conditions are met, you have a really good chance of killing the bosses, which is why I find this build so cool. I have killed dozens of bosses with my solo trainer in Harpy's Roost. Think of boss kills as an occasional bonus of this build, not as a focus; if you really just want to kill bosses and don't care about training fodder, using 3 dragons (instead of 1) is the most effortless way to do so.

Roc (Arcane)

Starting at 1241 HP (82%) and 92+ Breath with Gust Slash, Rock Slash, or Jungle Slash is best, and if you don't have those, 1489 HP (99%) and 85+ Breath is best for your success.

With a Wind dragon, you need 7 Rallied Gust Slash and 1 Rallied Scratch to kill it.

Buff starting with your very first turn, and then when buffs fall off. Always cast Haste before Rally if you're casting both buffs. (Obviously skip one if you don't need one, depending on the situation.)

You can crit or miss randomly, so you'll have to make your own cast decisions depending on the situation.

Since Haste and Rally last 5 turns each, you'd be casting them twice per fight, netting you 20 total extra Breath. This means that if you start the battle with 92 Breath, you'll have enough for your required Gust Slashes by the end of the fight (after casting all your buffs).

If you have fodder, chances are that they'll take a hit each for you before the boss kills you or dies. You have a good chance of it if you start the fight with 1241 HP (82%) or above, unless you miss, get crit, or get hit by Shred. You can also get lucky and dodge or crit, but don't count on those unless you feel like gambling.

The strategy is different if you don't have Gust Slash, Rock Slash, or Jungle Slash (which means you need a Wind, Earth, or Nature dragon), and the boss is harder without those. Don't fight this boss at all if you have Lightning, Shadow, or Light dragons, unless you're feeling lucky or bored; Rune Slash will hit them extra hard. You can try the strategy I suggest for Crowned Roc below if you've got any of the other elements, but keep in mind that only Arcane and Nature dragons would resist Rune Slash.

Crowned Roc (Wind)

Starting at 1489 HP (99%) and 85+ Breath is best for your success, unless you have Wave Slash, Blinding Slash, or Mist Slash, in which case you can start with 1241 HP (82%) and 92+ Breath.

Without Wave Slash, Blinding Slash, or Mist Slash, you need 3 Rally Eliminates and 8 Rally Scratches to kill it. (The last Scratch doesn't need to be Rallied.) Due to the Breath programming bug, you won't usually be able to have above 85 Breath from your previous battle, meaning that getting in the 4th Eliminate before dying is quite unfeasible.

Realistically, you'll want to start at 85 Breath. Haste and Rally will give you an extra 10 Breath, leaving you at 60 Breath after the first Eliminate.

Make sure that you never Eliminate without Rally, and you should always have Haste up before renewing Rally. In between, you should be Scratching up Breath for extra Eliminates.

Getting hit by Shred will make things hard for you, but if you resist Gust Slash, you can hope that the boss uses it on you because that makes you take less damage than Scratch. Gust Slash is not used as often, however, and it costs the boss more Breath.

If you have a Water, Light, or Shadow dragon with Wave Slash, Blinding Slash, or Mist Slash, you can kill this boss more easily using the same strategy as I recommend for the Arcane Roc above. Don't fight this boss at all if you have Earth, Lightning, or Arcane dragons, unless you're feeling lucky or bored; Gust Slash will hit them extra hard. Keep in mind that only Wind or Water dragons would resist Gust Slash.
1604_250px_sylvandyr_by_miirshroom-dcg8160.png
@mahururaji

for later ref :'DD
@mahururaji

for later ref :'DD
1267_d00f506a4a03ca34_I.gif 270_439a4fc17470ec8e_I.gif 7760_0c4af81b60a6b855_I.gif 6122_c2dd1645c594653d_I.gif

|| mahu | 22 | she/her | +17 FR time ||
art shop - clan directory - chronicles
@mahururaji

for later ref :'DD
@mahururaji

for later ref :'DD
1267_d00f506a4a03ca34_I.gif 270_439a4fc17470ec8e_I.gif 7760_0c4af81b60a6b855_I.gif 6122_c2dd1645c594653d_I.gif

|| mahu | 22 | she/her | +17 FR time ||
art shop - clan directory - chronicles
@Kiena

quick question and maybe it's been answered before but I don't want to go digging through the pages ^^;


for your multipurpose build is that for 3 dragons? Or just 2
@Kiena

quick question and maybe it's been answered before but I don't want to go digging through the pages ^^;


for your multipurpose build is that for 3 dragons? Or just 2
WFrXXME.png
@Sylvandyr

Quick question- does this Ghostbuster of yours have a Sap in addition to Haste and Rally?
@Sylvandyr

Quick question- does this Ghostbuster of yours have a Sap in addition to Haste and Rally?
windh4.png
@WyvernVenom - Yup, I use Scratch, Sap, Eliminate, Rally, and Haste on mine. There are different variations that can be used for different purposes. This one focuses on speed of training low level fodder; I instantly flee from bosses. However, for someone who's training level 25s or something, using Shred instead of Sap offers a potential to kill the bosses slightly more easily with enough Breath and health.
@WyvernVenom - Yup, I use Scratch, Sap, Eliminate, Rally, and Haste on mine. There are different variations that can be used for different purposes. This one focuses on speed of training low level fodder; I instantly flee from bosses. However, for someone who's training level 25s or something, using Shred instead of Sap offers a potential to kill the bosses slightly more easily with enough Breath and health.
1604_250px_sylvandyr_by_miirshroom-dcg8160.png
@Sylvandyr

Thanks! A few more questions- I'm trying to figure out a complement of teams to create in this thread. I have a draft of two farming teams (133 and 126 STR) plus a mage for the workshop, but for fodder training I currently plan to test a diversity of builds.

However, there are two Mire Flyers- yours/Kiena's/Maki's, with 117/72, and Culex's, with 117/70 and extra VIT. I doubt I need to test both of them, since they'll probably be very similar in efficiency when compared with, say, a double-fodder Harpy's Roost build. Therefore, I need to pick one of them to test. Are restarts a big enough problem with the 117/72 to warrant trying the 117/70 or not?

Similarly, there are three single-fodder Kelp Beds teams, again only differentiated by their QCK/VIT ratios. Culex's build has 59 QCK, Kiena's 58, and Maki's has a 126 and a 58. Again, they're probably similar enough that testing all of them would be a waste of Tinctures. Which would you recommend?

If you're ambivalent, I'll test the frailest build in each zone, and then try the hardiest if that doesn't work.

The list of builds by zone is in this post.
@Sylvandyr

Thanks! A few more questions- I'm trying to figure out a complement of teams to create in this thread. I have a draft of two farming teams (133 and 126 STR) plus a mage for the workshop, but for fodder training I currently plan to test a diversity of builds.

However, there are two Mire Flyers- yours/Kiena's/Maki's, with 117/72, and Culex's, with 117/70 and extra VIT. I doubt I need to test both of them, since they'll probably be very similar in efficiency when compared with, say, a double-fodder Harpy's Roost build. Therefore, I need to pick one of them to test. Are restarts a big enough problem with the 117/72 to warrant trying the 117/70 or not?

Similarly, there are three single-fodder Kelp Beds teams, again only differentiated by their QCK/VIT ratios. Culex's build has 59 QCK, Kiena's 58, and Maki's has a 126 and a 58. Again, they're probably similar enough that testing all of them would be a waste of Tinctures. Which would you recommend?

If you're ambivalent, I'll test the frailest build in each zone, and then try the hardiest if that doesn't work.

The list of builds by zone is in this post.
windh4.png
@WyvernVenom - Sorry, this is going to be long!

Mire comments

I prefer 72 QCK because the turn order shifts subtly for certain packs compared to 70 QCK in a way that cuts down training time by a fraction.

Example 1: Mossy Cerdae (Top) - Wetland Unicorn - Mossy Cerdae (Bottom).

With both 70 and 72 QCK, if you use Haste, the Wetland Unicorn gets a Meditate before you KO it, that can't be helped.

With 72 QCK, you can then ignore the Wetland Unicorn for the first turn and Scratch + Eliminate the Mossy Cerdae (Bottom) before it moves, then Scratch + Eliminate the Wetland Unicorn before it moves again.

With 70 QCK, if you ignore the Wetland Unicorn, you can Scratch + Eliminate the Mossy Cerdae (Bottom) before it moves, but you cannot Scratch + Eliminate the Wetland Unicorn before it moves again, opening you up to a Contuse that can slow down everything. You can weave around this by Scratch + Eliminate the Mossy Cerdae first, with a net result of seeing one extra Meditate from the Mossy Cerdae (Bottom) that you would not have seen with 72 QCK.

Example 2: Against Wetland Unicorn x3 and Venomous Toridae x3, if you have 72 QCK, you can Rally + Eliminate all 3 before they get their second turn. With 70 QCK, you cannot. The third one will get a second turn. That means the potential of eating a Contuse, which would force you to use an extra Rallied Scratch before Rallied Eliminate, or possibly taking Scratch damage from one of the highest STR monsters in the Mire.

I think these differences are well worth the 72 QCK, both for training speed and for survivability.

Kelp Beds comments

I favor the 126 STR, 58 QCK build in the Kelp Beds. 59 QCK can give you a turn before the Golden Porpoise in certain situations over 58 QCK, but if you KO things right, you would never get to that point with 58 QCK. The main time you'd see that turn difference is if you miss, and if you miss, you're down some Eliminate Breath and are in real trouble anyway unless you had a lot stored up. Plague trainers are weak to Blinding Slash, and even without the slash, Golden Porpoises do a lot of damage and have Shred, which is especially nasty and does a lot of damage.

Whether you mix in the 56 QCK or not is up to your playstyle. I preferred uniformity because misses are very likely, and I like either dragon to be able to perform. To maximize Breath buildup and minimize animation time, I also rarely Rally in the Kelp Beds, except for certain miss situations or against the Plague boss with my Plague dragons, so the 56 QCK turn order manipulation is not a selling point for me. Rally could be important for people who have issues with magic attacks slowing down the Coli, though, so you'll have to judge based on your situation.

---

All-in-all, the differences are minor and some people may not mind either build, but they are significant enough to me to have a distinct preference. If you had one and didn't want to use a Tincture to change, it wouldn't be the end of the world. If you have a choice, though, I'd personally go with the ones I mentioned.

Also, I know you didn't ask about this, but I saw in your thread that you were tracking Harpy's Roost builds, and this post has my comments on that. If you were trying to double up for Ghostlight Ruins, I'd say 76 QCK is more important, and you'd have to give up your ability to reliably kill bosses in the Roost, but that's okay if you're trying to just build a minimal amount of fodder trainers.

Have fun! :)
@WyvernVenom - Sorry, this is going to be long!

Mire comments

I prefer 72 QCK because the turn order shifts subtly for certain packs compared to 70 QCK in a way that cuts down training time by a fraction.

Example 1: Mossy Cerdae (Top) - Wetland Unicorn - Mossy Cerdae (Bottom).

With both 70 and 72 QCK, if you use Haste, the Wetland Unicorn gets a Meditate before you KO it, that can't be helped.

With 72 QCK, you can then ignore the Wetland Unicorn for the first turn and Scratch + Eliminate the Mossy Cerdae (Bottom) before it moves, then Scratch + Eliminate the Wetland Unicorn before it moves again.

With 70 QCK, if you ignore the Wetland Unicorn, you can Scratch + Eliminate the Mossy Cerdae (Bottom) before it moves, but you cannot Scratch + Eliminate the Wetland Unicorn before it moves again, opening you up to a Contuse that can slow down everything. You can weave around this by Scratch + Eliminate the Mossy Cerdae first, with a net result of seeing one extra Meditate from the Mossy Cerdae (Bottom) that you would not have seen with 72 QCK.

Example 2: Against Wetland Unicorn x3 and Venomous Toridae x3, if you have 72 QCK, you can Rally + Eliminate all 3 before they get their second turn. With 70 QCK, you cannot. The third one will get a second turn. That means the potential of eating a Contuse, which would force you to use an extra Rallied Scratch before Rallied Eliminate, or possibly taking Scratch damage from one of the highest STR monsters in the Mire.

I think these differences are well worth the 72 QCK, both for training speed and for survivability.

Kelp Beds comments

I favor the 126 STR, 58 QCK build in the Kelp Beds. 59 QCK can give you a turn before the Golden Porpoise in certain situations over 58 QCK, but if you KO things right, you would never get to that point with 58 QCK. The main time you'd see that turn difference is if you miss, and if you miss, you're down some Eliminate Breath and are in real trouble anyway unless you had a lot stored up. Plague trainers are weak to Blinding Slash, and even without the slash, Golden Porpoises do a lot of damage and have Shred, which is especially nasty and does a lot of damage.

Whether you mix in the 56 QCK or not is up to your playstyle. I preferred uniformity because misses are very likely, and I like either dragon to be able to perform. To maximize Breath buildup and minimize animation time, I also rarely Rally in the Kelp Beds, except for certain miss situations or against the Plague boss with my Plague dragons, so the 56 QCK turn order manipulation is not a selling point for me. Rally could be important for people who have issues with magic attacks slowing down the Coli, though, so you'll have to judge based on your situation.

---

All-in-all, the differences are minor and some people may not mind either build, but they are significant enough to me to have a distinct preference. If you had one and didn't want to use a Tincture to change, it wouldn't be the end of the world. If you have a choice, though, I'd personally go with the ones I mentioned.

Also, I know you didn't ask about this, but I saw in your thread that you were tracking Harpy's Roost builds, and this post has my comments on that. If you were trying to double up for Ghostlight Ruins, I'd say 76 QCK is more important, and you'd have to give up your ability to reliably kill bosses in the Roost, but that's okay if you're trying to just build a minimal amount of fodder trainers.

Have fun! :)
1604_250px_sylvandyr_by_miirshroom-dcg8160.png
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