If the argument is "G1 dragons say that they are G1; therefore, we should implement this suggestion" then I would MUCH rather see the words "G1" disappear from dragons than elitist marks appear on my dragons against my will.
But the fact is, G1 dragons denote a function--an unbred G1 can breed with any dragon on site. That is a functional mark, not like this suggestion which would be marking something that is a non-function.
Also, the G1 mark existed since this site was founded. THEN users decided that mark had value. This suggestion is asking for the opposite. It's asking for the staff to come down from their position on high and specifically mark "this dragon is better than that dragon." Which is massively not cool. The staff should never say which dragons are better than others. Eyeburners, XXX, unbred, etc etc etc are all things the playerbase decided to value without the staff even so much as hinting so. In this suggestion, some users have already decided Identical Dragon A is more valuable than Identical Dragon B and are asking the staff to make an on-site indication affirming that choice--at the expense of all other dragons. Absolutely, no thanks--never support.
If the argument is "G1 dragons say that they are G1; therefore, we should implement this suggestion" then I would MUCH rather see the words "G1" disappear from dragons than elitist marks appear on my dragons against my will.
But the fact is, G1 dragons denote a function--an unbred G1 can breed with any dragon on site. That is a functional mark, not like this suggestion which would be marking something that is a non-function.
Also, the G1 mark existed since this site was founded. THEN users decided that mark had value. This suggestion is asking for the opposite. It's asking for the staff to come down from their position on high and specifically mark "this dragon is better than that dragon." Which is massively not cool. The staff should never say which dragons are better than others. Eyeburners, XXX, unbred, etc etc etc are all things the playerbase decided to value without the staff even so much as hinting so. In this suggestion, some users have already decided Identical Dragon A is more valuable than Identical Dragon B and are asking the staff to make an on-site indication affirming that choice--at the expense of all other dragons. Absolutely, no thanks--never support.
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If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
No support, for reasons brought up by others.
No support, for reasons brought up by others.
in a game focused around customization, this would seem very out of place
in a game focused around customization, this would seem very out of place
[quote name="pfvupl" date="2022-06-16 09:18:47" ]
[quote name="Almedha" date="2022-06-16 09:00:51" ]
This means we are fine with the exclusive elitism for only G1/raffle dragons, only old dragons, and only the literal one in a hundred million dragons. There is no way for G2+ dragons to be worth the prestige/treasure/ego/whatever. We already have dragons that are visually identical to one another that are "better" in that they are worth more.
I'm not pressed about it, but if this type of exclusivity is bad because it's one that G2+ dragons only can participate in, then I guess it is.
[/quote]
I think I get what you're saying (?) on one hand it would make G2s more elite... they certainly aren't elite comapred to G1s...
I tend to say "fun facts" another person says "elitism" but I'm not invested in this suggestion either way.
[/quote]
Honestly, I think "elitism" as a term here is a little far-fetched. Nobody is looking at anybody else's dragons and saying to themselves, "Wow these dragons are worthless compared to mine!" And if they are...? Who cares? That seems like a personal problem. If you have dragons you like, that's the point. Be secure in that knowledge; it doesn't matter if this mythical person thinks they're doing better at Dragon Neopets because their dragons are triple G1's or something. We have the dragons we have because we like them better than other dragons, no?
(That is to say, it's weird to me that almost everyone is against this suggestion because it will affect what [i]other people[/i] think of my dragons. It's the same pride in different clothes, to be so offended by the fact that they think my dragons are worth less than theirs. My dragons are gonna be my dragons regardless of how the site changes what it tracks or what the info box looks like. And I'm still going to like them even though someone calls them a "gross hippy dragon" or whatever. So what if that person thinks my dragon is inferior because it's not G1 or whatever. It doesn't change anything; my dragon [i]is[/i] worthless because I was never going to sell it in the first place.)
The only time when "dragon elitism" matters is when you're trying to sell dragons. If you're not trying to sell your dragons, they are elite. One in a million. They won dragon lottery because they aren't exalted. But of course when you're trying to sell, some are better than others depending on the person. Some people just like trivial labels of this kind, though, as evidenced by how oddly frequently this suggestion comes up...
------
(And, I am ultimately against this suggestion unless there's a way we don't know about to make this thing retroactive. But to say the opinions of the couple of people that always jump on no support is indicative of the site as a whole when it's brought up once or twice a quarter is quite silly. This is obviously something people want in one way or another. I don't think elitism is a danger with it as if it will change the elitism we already have... which is to say, my dragons are special and I'm afraid people won't recognize that if there's a new sticker or label. Don't be afraid of what other people think of your dragons if that's your only excuse. Breeding for your perfect dragon is the right way to play the game. It's not the only right way, but it is the right way. Wanting recognition for that kind of thing is hardly bad when this is a sandbox game. Not everyone will want or get every recognition, and that's the way the game is supposed to be. With more recognitions, the more right ways to play feel rewarded.)
pfvupl wrote on 2022-06-16 09:18:47:
Almedha wrote on 2022-06-16 09:00:51:
This means we are fine with the exclusive elitism for only G1/raffle dragons, only old dragons, and only the literal one in a hundred million dragons. There is no way for G2+ dragons to be worth the prestige/treasure/ego/whatever. We already have dragons that are visually identical to one another that are "better" in that they are worth more.
I'm not pressed about it, but if this type of exclusivity is bad because it's one that G2+ dragons only can participate in, then I guess it is.
I think I get what you're saying (?) on one hand it would make G2s more elite... they certainly aren't elite comapred to G1s...
I tend to say "fun facts" another person says "elitism" but I'm not invested in this suggestion either way.
Honestly, I think "elitism" as a term here is a little far-fetched. Nobody is looking at anybody else's dragons and saying to themselves, "Wow these dragons are worthless compared to mine!" And if they are...? Who cares? That seems like a personal problem. If you have dragons you like, that's the point. Be secure in that knowledge; it doesn't matter if this mythical person thinks they're doing better at Dragon Neopets because their dragons are triple G1's or something. We have the dragons we have because we like them better than other dragons, no?
(That is to say, it's weird to me that almost everyone is against this suggestion because it will affect what
other people think of my dragons. It's the same pride in different clothes, to be so offended by the fact that they think my dragons are worth less than theirs. My dragons are gonna be my dragons regardless of how the site changes what it tracks or what the info box looks like. And I'm still going to like them even though someone calls them a "gross hippy dragon" or whatever. So what if that person thinks my dragon is inferior because it's not G1 or whatever. It doesn't change anything; my dragon
is worthless because I was never going to sell it in the first place.)
The only time when "dragon elitism" matters is when you're trying to sell dragons. If you're not trying to sell your dragons, they are elite. One in a million. They won dragon lottery because they aren't exalted. But of course when you're trying to sell, some are better than others depending on the person. Some people just like trivial labels of this kind, though, as evidenced by how oddly frequently this suggestion comes up...
(And, I am ultimately against this suggestion unless there's a way we don't know about to make this thing retroactive. But to say the opinions of the couple of people that always jump on no support is indicative of the site as a whole when it's brought up once or twice a quarter is quite silly. This is obviously something people want in one way or another. I don't think elitism is a danger with it as if it will change the elitism we already have... which is to say, my dragons are special and I'm afraid people won't recognize that if there's a new sticker or label. Don't be afraid of what other people think of your dragons if that's your only excuse. Breeding for your perfect dragon is the right way to play the game. It's not the only right way, but it is the right way. Wanting recognition for that kind of thing is hardly bad when this is a sandbox game. Not everyone will want or get every recognition, and that's the way the game is supposed to be. With more recognitions, the more right ways to play feel rewarded.)
No support.
It doesn't have any value other than spurring on elitism.
No support.
It doesn't have any value other than spurring on elitism.
No support. If having a "naturally born special" dragon is so important screen shot its birth and put in in the bio. We don't need an icon for this just so people can act all elitist about having hatched a special dragon while others altered it with vials/scrolls etc.
Also this has been suggested a couple times already, you should try searching forums before to posting to avoid making multiple threads on the same subject.
No support. If having a "naturally born special" dragon is so important screen shot its birth and put in in the bio. We don't need an icon for this just so people can act all elitist about having hatched a special dragon while others altered it with vials/scrolls etc.
Also this has been suggested a couple times already, you should try searching forums before to posting to avoid making multiple threads on the same subject.
Huh, guess this thread made me realize some people just... Don't gene or scatter their dragons. It's wild ! I know I must have one or two dragons I bought that looked okay from the start, but I'm pretty sure they all went through some changes if I kept them. I think it's really neat when threads like that highlight different kind of gameplay you could have sworn wouldn't exists before ^^.
I guess I'm still not in favor of this suggestion for reasons others have already explained better, even though it will really have 0 impact on my own personaly game experience.
Huh, guess this thread made me realize some people just... Don't gene or scatter their dragons. It's wild ! I know I must have one or two dragons I bought that looked okay from the start, but I'm pretty sure they all went through some changes if I kept them. I think it's really neat when threads like that highlight different kind of gameplay you could have sworn wouldn't exists before ^^.
I guess I'm still not in favor of this suggestion for reasons others have already explained better, even though it will really have 0 impact on my own personaly game experience.
No support for reasons others have mentioned, specifically that elitism and the "backwards incompatibility" it would have with older dragons.
But definitely elitism. There would be dragon purists valuing untouched dragons more which would impact the G1 scene as well as the market as a whole (after all, a huge portion of the G1 scene is made up of folks who just like the 'pure' nature of an unbred G1).
And just personally, as a serial scatterer...
It would also just make scatter scrolls more "risky", as if they weren't already. Not only are you splurging on a scroll that is already a risk with the unknown nature of the colors it could bestow, but with this something like this, it would likely be an instant tank in value for the dragon it is put on, no matter how lucky your scatter might be bc it would take away that "pure" status.
No support for reasons others have mentioned, specifically that elitism and the "backwards incompatibility" it would have with older dragons.
But definitely elitism. There would be dragon purists valuing untouched dragons more which would impact the G1 scene as well as the market as a whole (after all, a huge portion of the G1 scene is made up of folks who just like the 'pure' nature of an unbred G1).
And just personally, as a serial scatterer...
It would also just make scatter scrolls more "risky", as if they weren't already. Not only are you splurging on a scroll that is already a risk with the unknown nature of the colors it could bestow, but with this something like this, it would likely be an instant tank in value for the dragon it is put on, no matter how lucky your scatter might be bc it would take away that "pure" status.
[quote]But definitely elitism. There would be dragon purists valuing untouched dragons more which would impact the G1 scene as well as the market as a whole (after all, a huge portion of the G1 scene is made up of folks who just like the 'pure' nature of an unbred G1).[/quote]
Not for nothing, but this says to me elitism is worse without a feature like this. Because the purity of an unbred G1 would have to either be balanced with it being "unfinished" (thereby increasing the perception of genes like basic as truly being part of a "finished" look); or by "finishing" them with genes, taking that purity away. So you would have to make a decision on which of two equally good (and previously, perhaps, undesirable) decisions "completed" a G1 project: purity or genes. Which seems like it would have the likely effect of making elitism less common by diluting it among new decisions that didn't matter before. For G1's, anyway.
Quote:
But definitely elitism. There would be dragon purists valuing untouched dragons more which would impact the G1 scene as well as the market as a whole (after all, a huge portion of the G1 scene is made up of folks who just like the 'pure' nature of an unbred G1).
Not for nothing, but this says to me elitism is worse without a feature like this. Because the purity of an unbred G1 would have to either be balanced with it being "unfinished" (thereby increasing the perception of genes like basic as truly being part of a "finished" look); or by "finishing" them with genes, taking that purity away. So you would have to make a decision on which of two equally good (and previously, perhaps, undesirable) decisions "completed" a G1 project: purity or genes. Which seems like it would have the likely effect of making elitism less common by diluting it among new decisions that didn't matter before. For G1's, anyway.
I don't think calling the predicted fallout "elitism" is too far of a stretch based on some of the ways I've seen people talk about dragons.
Not quoting anyone in particular here, just mashing together sentiment I've seen across various threads and posts, using the terminology used there: "I think dragons hatched with primal eyes should have a gold star to show that I did things the right way and didn't take the easy way out. It would show that I beat the odds and actually put effort into my dragons rather than just throwing a vial at it. It would bring back value to hatched primal eyes and give these dragons a little something special. After all, their prices took a hit when vials were released, and I want my dragons to be worth more again."
Now, with extra emphasis: "I think dragons hatched with primal eyes should have a gold star to show that I did things the right way and didn't take the easy way out. It would show that I beat the odds and actually put effort into my dragons rather than just throwing a vial at it. It would bring back value to hatched primal eyes and give these dragons a little something special. After all, their prices took a hit when vials were released, and I want my dragons to be worth more again."
Everything I underlined is language that emphasizes elitism. "I want my dragons to be special. I want my dragons to be more valuable." And this comes at the cost of putting dragons that were vialed/scrolled down.
I know society as a whole values "just let things like that roll off your back" and "who cares what other people think." But the fact is--we're social creatures. We do care about what others think. Plus, that kind of attitude permeates the site, changing the whole atmosphere of FR--and I don't feel it would change it for the positive.
Also, again, anything currently existing that users place value on was all user decided and/or serves a functional purpose. ID#s are necessary for the site's code to tell dragons apart. G1s were completely user decided. This suggestion is asking to change things by having the staff come from their position of power and say "this dragon deserves a gold star and that one does not." And that is a massive step that I feel the staff should not take.
I don't think calling the predicted fallout "elitism" is too far of a stretch based on some of the ways I've seen people talk about dragons.
Not quoting anyone in particular here, just mashing together sentiment I've seen across various threads and posts, using the terminology used there: "I think dragons hatched with primal eyes should have a gold star to show that I did things the right way and didn't take the easy way out. It would show that I beat the odds and actually put effort into my dragons rather than just throwing a vial at it. It would bring back value to hatched primal eyes and give these dragons a little something special. After all, their prices took a hit when vials were released, and I want my dragons to be worth more again."
Now, with extra emphasis: "I think dragons hatched with primal eyes should have a gold star to show that I did things the right way and didn't take the easy way out. It would show that I beat the odds and actually put effort into my dragons rather than just throwing a vial at it. It would bring back value to hatched primal eyes and give these dragons a little something special. After all, their prices took a hit when vials were released, and I want my dragons to be worth more again."
Everything I underlined is language that emphasizes elitism. "I want my dragons to be special. I want my dragons to be more valuable." And this comes at the cost of putting dragons that were vialed/scrolled down.
I know society as a whole values "just let things like that roll off your back" and "who cares what other people think." But the fact is--we're social creatures. We do care about what others think. Plus, that kind of attitude permeates the site, changing the whole atmosphere of FR--and I don't feel it would change it for the positive.
Also, again, anything currently existing that users place value on was all user decided and/or serves a functional purpose. ID#s are necessary for the site's code to tell dragons apart. G1s were completely user decided. This suggestion is asking to change things by having the staff come from their position of power and say "this dragon deserves a gold star and that one does not." And that is a massive step that I feel the staff should not take.
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If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
