Suggestions

I don't think I support this suggestion as posed in OP, mostly for logistics reasons, but a lot of these "no support" votes are making me consider changing my stance just to annoy them.

I think changing the language away from M/F and to some other thing would be nice. I think using M/F as a stand-in for breeding roles is flawed and inaccurate, and it would be a fun opportunity for fantasy worldbuilding to do something else. I think players could survive being a little confused about breeding for a while. I doubt they'd actually go through with a language change this far into the site's lifespan, but it'd be nice if it did happen.

[quote name="Jhortanas" date="2024-07-09 01:55:48" ] I think changing the language away from M/F and to some other thing would be nice. I think using M/F as a stand-in for breeding roles is flawed and inaccurate, and it would be a fun opportunity for fantasy worldbuilding to do something else. I think players could survive being a little confused about breeding for a while. I doubt they'd actually go through with a language change this far into the site's lifespan, but it'd be nice if it did happen. [/quote] Out of curiosity, what is flawed/inaccurate about it? Male and female typically communicate breeding roles specifically, though perhaps sanitized. I'm all for calling one of them "sperm" and the other "ova" or whatever if we're really after something that is accurate (but the implication that we are, considering the other suggestions for replacement on this thread, is obviously disingenuous - there is nothing more or less accurate about "orange diamond" and "pink diamond" sex). One of them produces the fertilizing gamete and the other producing the gamete which is fertilized. Breeding isn't complicated. I personally don't care what we call them as long as it's [i]spelled out[/i] (which it isn't currently, thanks accessibility), but this semantics discussion is exhausting. Male and female matter as much as pink diamond and orange diamond. Also not even the point of this thread. The point of this thread is that there are two.

Why is there so much spite and open admissions of wanting to anger people in this thread

[quote name="Almedha" date="2024-07-09 08:33:58" ] Out of curiosity, what is flawed/inaccurate about it? Male and female typically communicate breeding roles specifically, though perhaps sanitized. I'm all for calling one of them "sperm" and the other "ova" or whatever if we're really after something that is accurate (but the implication that we are, considering the other suggestions for replacement on this thread, is obviously disingenuous - there is nothing more or less accurate about "orange diamond" and "pink diamond" sex). One of them produces the fertilizing gamete and the other producing the gamete which is fertilized. Breeding isn't complicated. [/quote] Graciously assuming you're asking a genuine question: FR dragons are fictional creatures, but obviously draw a lot socially and culturally from humans, because they were, y'know, written by humans. For humans, social gender and physical sex are both spectrums which can, but do not necessarily, overlap. Someone telling you they're a man or woman tells you nothing about their [i]breeding capability[/i]. Arbitrary categories like "orange diamond" and "pink diamond" (none of which I actually referenced in my post, so I'm not sure why you dragged them in here anyway?) would still be nonsense, but at least it'd be nonsense that didn't enforce bioessentialist misconceptions.

No support, only because at this stage of FR's lifecycle, it would take a lot of work to overhaul the breeding system, and I can't see this being a change that would be embraced well. Mostly because we've had the breeding system that we've had for years now along with those restrictions.

I also want to say however that I can see the reasons why people would want this. I'm not going to get involved in much of the discussion as this sort of topic gets heated fast, and both sides of the debate have good reasons for and against (I say this, and I mean more LGBT who do want this vs LGBT who feel hurt by this suggestion. Both reasons are valid, as are the feelings included there). If FR was a younger site and still new, I probably would be more supportive.

I think FR has done good in progressing choices and options over the years for users, especially with the introduction of things such as silhouette scrolls, etc. I'd rather see FR continue to work towards the future updates and expansions of the site, rather than having to pool time together for an overhaul of a function that would take a lot of effort and resources that could be used elsewhere - and giving that breeding is a fundamental thing for many I can also see it being something that could involve a lot of bugs and testing. I still remember how long it took for the achievements overhaul to come out.

[quote name="Jhortanas" date="2024-07-09 01:55:48" ] I don't think I support this suggestion as posed in OP, mostly for logistics reasons, but a lot of these "no support" votes are making me consider changing my stance just to annoy them. I think changing the language away from M/F and to some other thing would be nice. I think using M/F as a stand-in for breeding roles is flawed and inaccurate, and it would be a fun opportunity for fantasy worldbuilding to do something else. I think players could survive being a little confused about breeding for a while. I doubt they'd actually go through with a language change this far into the site's lifespan, but it'd be nice if it did happen. [/quote] for the record i would completely be in favor of just staying away from m/f language. paw borough uses mars and venus instead of male and female. biology is still a factor, but it does not carry the connotation of real world sex/gender roles. (also you can change between mars and venus poses freely without needing a paid item bc that's another thing that is completely unnecessary and in a fantasy world with magic there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to switch at will, lol) i also really enjoy pce's wind system. it's completely its own thing and makes perfect sense when you get used to it. so yeah idk. i recognize that this suggestion is probably moot since at this point in the game's life cycle i doubt they'd change it, and from a coding standpoint i'm not sure how feasible it is. but in a perfect world this would be great.

[quote name="Jhortanas" date="2024-07-09 11:18:37" ] [quote name="Almedha" date="2024-07-09 08:33:58" ] Out of curiosity, what is flawed/inaccurate about it? Male and female typically communicate breeding roles specifically, though perhaps sanitized. I'm all for calling one of them "sperm" and the other "ova" or whatever if we're really after something that is accurate (but the implication that we are, considering the other suggestions for replacement on this thread, is obviously disingenuous - there is nothing more or less accurate about "orange diamond" and "pink diamond" sex). One of them produces the fertilizing gamete and the other producing the gamete which is fertilized. Breeding isn't complicated. [/quote] Graciously assuming you're asking a genuine question: FR dragons are fictional creatures, but obviously draw a lot socially and culturally from humans, because they were, y'know, written by humans. For humans, social gender and physical sex are both spectrums which can, but do not necessarily, overlap. Someone telling you they're a man or woman tells you nothing about their [i]breeding capability[/i]. Arbitrary categories like "orange diamond" and "pink diamond" (none of which I actually referenced in my post, so I'm not sure why you dragged them in here anyway?) would still be nonsense, but at least it'd be nonsense that didn't enforce bioessentialist misconceptions. [/quote] I shall even more graciously assume you're giving a genuine answer. Because here we are dragging in "man" and "woman," which also wasn't referenced in your post. You said [i]male[/i] (m) and [i]female[/i] (f) were flawed and those specific terms were what my question was about. I also offered "sperm" and "ova," but sure. I dragged in nonsensical diamonds. [i]Male[/i] and [i]female[/i] are mechanical terms specifically about breeding capability. They are widely (if not universally) understood in breeding - dogs, salmon, ferns, and willows - as referring to sperm-producing and egg-producing gametes in the same body or separately. The basics (which is all this game has, instead of, say, Mendelian inheritance) are so uncomplicated that literal cavemen could figure it out. EDIT: You know. I feel like from the answer you gave it wasn't a genuine answer, so feel free to not respond. I'm not particularly interested, anyway.

[quote name="Xaz" date="2024-07-05 23:57:33" ] After reading the whole thread [b]I don't think anyone is being homophobic, or transphobic I think we're all just passionate about silly lil dragon pngs [/b] but I think it's also important to remember... they're just silly lil dragon pngs guys. We're here to have a silly lil time and dress up our online paper dolls. [b]I do agree with some of the queers (I am also queer) saying its ick that biological children = valid family unit issssssss sus but I don't think anyone means anything nefarious by it.[/b] [/quote] [quote name="hinotoriii" date="2024-07-09 13:06:30" ] No support, only because at this stage of FR's lifecycle, it would take a lot of work to overhaul the breeding system, and I can't see this being a change that would be embraced well. Mostly because we've had the breeding system that we've had for years now along with those restrictions. I also want to say however that I can see the reasons why people would want this. I'm not going to get involved in much of the discussion as this sort of topic gets heated fast, and both sides of the debate have good reasons for and against [b](I say this, and I mean more LGBT who do want this vs LGBT who feel hurt by this suggestion. Both reasons are valid, as are the feelings included there). If FR was a younger site and still new, I probably would be more supportive. I think FR has done good in progressing choices and options over the years for users, especially with the introduction of things such as silhouette scrolls, etc.[/b] I'd rather see FR continue to work towards the future updates and expansions of the site, rather than having to pool time together for an overhaul of a function that would take a lot of effort and resources that could be used elsewhere - and giving that breeding is a fundamental thing for many I can also see it being something that could involve a lot of bugs and testing. I still remember how long it took for the achievements overhaul to come out. [/quote] This is essentially the gist of how I feel, especially the parts I've bolded. Going to make this my final statement of sorts on things regarding this, so please do not ping me back into the thread. Thank you. As I said earlier in the thread, I would really love if this was a possibility, but this late in the game's existence I don't see it happening or being received well given that the breeding system has been the way it is for the past eleven years. If staff could figure out a way to make it work without the breeding system breaking then I'm 100% for it. (Whether that be via a scroll or what have you.) That said, I want to apologize to those who might have been put off by my earlier post calling this a form of representation. While I do believe that it is, because there are queer couples who want to have children, I also agree that having children certainly [b]is not[/b] and [b]should not be[/b] the criteria for what makes a relationship 'valid' or 'real'. Nor is it the basis of queer representation. I can see how my wording might have been poor, and again, apologize. Especially to my fellow queer folk. Have a good night everybody. Remember to drink water and have a good stretch now and then.

[quote name="Kuroikumo" date="2024-07-09 15:49:27" ] [quote name="Jhortanas" date="2024-07-09 01:55:48" ] I don't think I support this suggestion as posed in OP, mostly for logistics reasons, but a lot of these "no support" votes are making me consider changing my stance just to annoy them. I think changing the language away from M/F and to some other thing would be nice. I think using M/F as a stand-in for breeding roles is flawed and inaccurate, and it would be a fun opportunity for fantasy worldbuilding to do something else. I think players could survive being a little confused about breeding for a while. I doubt they'd actually go through with a language change this far into the site's lifespan, but it'd be nice if it did happen. [/quote] for the record i would completely be in favor of just staying away from m/f language. paw borough uses mars and venus instead of male and female. biology is still a factor, but it does not carry the connotation of real world sex/gender roles. (also you can change between mars and venus poses freely without needing a paid item bc that's another thing that is completely unnecessary and in a fantasy world with magic there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to switch at will, lol) i also really enjoy pce's wind system. it's completely its own thing and makes perfect sense when you get used to it. so yeah idk. i recognize that this suggestion is probably moot since at this point in the game's life cycle i doubt they'd change it, and from a coding standpoint i'm not sure how feasible it is. but in a perfect world this would be great. [/quote] generally my thoughts on this tbh. While it would be nice, not having to deal with randomly assigned sex with no way to influence that on breeding projects, it's also over ten years in, so. I don't want to know what the breeding system coding backend looks like, lmao. Choosable little "magical compatability" markers would be nice from a customization standpoint - not forcing everyone one way or another, but being able to choose if you want the m/f markers or the alternate(s). Options, y'know? But I also admittedly don't have much skin in the game. My breeding projects are occasional, and I like to collect pixel dragons vs having in-depth lore.