It’s great that the lore is being reworked, and the new harpy lore looks great! I assume that the some of the harpy familiar’s descriptions will be changed/tweaked to fit the new lore (such as
Eye of Talona, and the same for the other beastclans). I can’t wait to see the new/reworked lore for the rest.
There’s also the fact that there are beastclan coli enemies to be addressed, though I believe in the past there was explanation mentioned somewhere for other enemies (not sure about beast clan) being influenced by the shade or “shade copies”, so that could explain it? Otherwise they could be defectors or something.
It’s great that the lore is being reworked, and the new harpy lore looks great! I assume that the some of the harpy familiar’s descriptions will be changed/tweaked to fit the new lore (such as
Eye of Talona, and the same for the other beastclans). I can’t wait to see the new/reworked lore for the rest.
There’s also the fact that there are beastclan coli enemies to be addressed, though I believe in the past there was explanation mentioned somewhere for other enemies (not sure about beast clan) being influenced by the shade or “shade copies”, so that could explain it? Otherwise they could be defectors or something.
:) this is good to see, ty staff
:) this is good to see, ty staff
Check out my hatchery thread
here and my breeding pairs
here!
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Maximum level baldwin pot available to rent! You supply materials, I supply the pot! 1kt/1g per hour! PM me to rent!
[quote name="Mutation" date="2022-12-14 12:46:25" ]
@IamNoHere Modern dragons are actually also canonically Shade-touched! The old Gaolers (the OG Shade-hunters) could smell Shade on them immediately.
There could absolutely be a reverse scenario of Beastclans freeing a Dragon from shade, or contacting another dragon clan for help if they themselves didn't have the means!
[/quote]
Oh! Haven´t considered it this way, tbh. iirc, from reading the story, I understood it as the Gaolers smelling shade on them due to Wemba´s (if I recall the name) encounter with the strength-sapping probably-Shade thing before, rather than them actually being Shade-touched outright.
If the cleansing-from-Shade thing could work mutually as you say, though, that´d get rid of the unfortunate implications, and make lore posisbilities even more exciting!
Mutation wrote on 2022-12-14 12:46:25:
@
IamNoHere Modern dragons are actually also canonically Shade-touched! The old Gaolers (the OG Shade-hunters) could smell Shade on them immediately.
There could absolutely be a reverse scenario of Beastclans freeing a Dragon from shade, or contacting another dragon clan for help if they themselves didn't have the means!
Oh! Haven´t considered it this way, tbh. iirc, from reading the story, I understood it as the Gaolers smelling shade on them due to Wemba´s (if I recall the name) encounter with the strength-sapping probably-Shade thing before, rather than them actually being Shade-touched outright.
If the cleansing-from-Shade thing could work mutually as you say, though, that´d get rid of the unfortunate implications, and make lore posisbilities even more exciting!
I see a lot of others reflecting my same feelings, that this is a welcome change to have a better environment on the site, and the FR team is trying to do the right thing, and new lore, yay! I feel all that, but I also feel that this was...not the perfect move.
ErasingRetconning the problematic lore like it never happened opens up a new can of worms, which many others have pointed out, but the biggest one I'm worried about is the consequences of equating Beastclans with RL events and peoples. Between calling them Beasts/Familiars and pitting them against dragons in Coli, then having dragons "save" them in Coli and being sold or traded to other clans, all of that has colonial undertones that can't be taken away from the game without serious reworking of the system. Clearly the system isn't the problem, it's the lore and the implications of retconning problematic lore that ends up being the problem.
I feel like a better solution would have been to rewrite the old lore. Reframe the narrative to give Beastclans more sympathy, explain the plight of both sides clearly and strip the "dragons are superior" narrative, and then write more lore to bring both sides together against a common evil. (Bonus points if we got a new site feature that allowed users to create their own "Beastclan", where we can display our familiars separately from our dragons with their own personal pages/bios.)
This is only one opinion, but it's not the only one saying the change was a little misguided. It's clear already the FR team wants to create a better site environment, and that's amazing, I really applaud the effort. In this case, maybe it would have been better to ask for more user feedback about the changes the site makes in an effort to better itself in this way.
I see a lot of others reflecting my same feelings, that this is a welcome change to have a better environment on the site, and the FR team is trying to do the right thing, and new lore, yay! I feel all that, but I also feel that this was...not the perfect move.
ErasingRetconning the problematic lore like it never happened opens up a new can of worms, which many others have pointed out, but the biggest one I'm worried about is the consequences of equating Beastclans with RL events and peoples. Between calling them Beasts/Familiars and pitting them against dragons in Coli, then having dragons "save" them in Coli and being sold or traded to other clans, all of that has colonial undertones that can't be taken away from the game without serious reworking of the system. Clearly the system isn't the problem, it's the lore and the implications of retconning problematic lore that ends up being the problem.
I feel like a better solution would have been to rewrite the old lore. Reframe the narrative to give Beastclans more sympathy, explain the plight of both sides clearly and strip the "dragons are superior" narrative, and then write more lore to bring both sides together against a common evil. (Bonus points if we got a new site feature that allowed users to create their own "Beastclan", where we can display our familiars separately from our dragons with their own personal pages/bios.)
This is only one opinion, but it's not the only one saying the change was a little misguided. It's clear already the FR team wants to create a better site environment, and that's amazing, I really applaud the effort. In this case, maybe it would have been better to ask for more user feedback about the changes the site makes in an effort to better itself in this way.
Hi! What will happen to the story with the nature ambassador, since that story had map locations based on it that might not make sense otherwise?
Hi! What will happen to the story with the nature ambassador, since that story had map locations based on it that might not make sense otherwise?
i think this was the right decision to make!! and even if it took some time i hope that this apology and the changes going forward will make the game as a whole a better experience for everyone. we live and we learn and we grow!
i think this was the right decision to make!! and even if it took some time i hope that this apology and the changes going forward will make the game as a whole a better experience for everyone. we live and we learn and we grow!
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Hi, my name's Multi! Please use he/him and they/them for me!
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@terr1bletyto
[quote name="Undel" date="2022-12-14 11:13:59" ]
[quote name="RoxxiFloofs" date="2022-12-14 11:06:50" ]
I wonder if Baldwin's Brew will change a bit because of this? Throwing Beastclan members into the cauldron seems kind of... wrong (as funny as it is to imagine just tossing an entire centaur in)
[/quote]
I think with this one it needs to be recognized as a game mechanic to get rid of duplicate items and turn them into something useful. If you want to think of a way to make this fit into your lore, think of "feather of harpy" as being an ingredient rather than putting a creature whole into a pot. The same goes for non-sapient familiars. Baldwin would never allow living creatures to be tossed into his cauldron!
This is definitely a place where mechanics and lore disconnect.
-----------
Regarding some of the existing tooltips for harpy familiars and items, that is an oversight and we will be bringing the tooltips in line in a site status update before the end of the week.
[/quote]
@
terr1bletyto
Undel wrote on 2022-12-14 11:13:59:
RoxxiFloofs wrote on 2022-12-14 11:06:50:
I wonder if Baldwin's Brew will change a bit because of this? Throwing Beastclan members into the cauldron seems kind of... wrong (as funny as it is to imagine just tossing an entire centaur in)
I think with this one it needs to be recognized as a game mechanic to get rid of duplicate items and turn them into something useful. If you want to think of a way to make this fit into your lore, think of "feather of harpy" as being an ingredient rather than putting a creature whole into a pot. The same goes for non-sapient familiars. Baldwin would never allow living creatures to be tossed into his cauldron!
This is definitely a place where mechanics and lore disconnect.
Regarding some of the existing tooltips for harpy familiars and items, that is an oversight and we will be bringing the tooltips in line in a site status update before the end of the week.
Ever since I joined (post-rise of the beastclans) I've had a perception of Sornieth + FR's worldbuilding in general as being intentionally kind of dark and almost satirical, and dragonkind as intentionally being presented as not necessarily the outright "good guys", so hearing that this was NOT the intent and that this is being entirely backtracked on in the lore is unexpected. This is not bad, probably quite good as intended, just unexpected, but I really really do hope the FR team finds a way to keep that sense of moral greyness and darkness in the world going forward, even if it's in a different way. I got my original impression both from the lore and from the general tone of item descriptions, so it remains, but yeah.
What with emperors, vanishing gods, and strange connections between domains, I'm certain they can do it.
Ever since I joined (post-rise of the beastclans) I've had a perception of Sornieth + FR's worldbuilding in general as being intentionally kind of dark and almost satirical, and dragonkind as intentionally being presented as not necessarily the outright "good guys", so hearing that this was NOT the intent and that this is being entirely backtracked on in the lore is unexpected. This is not bad, probably quite good as intended, just unexpected, but I really really do hope the FR team finds a way to keep that sense of moral greyness and darkness in the world going forward, even if it's in a different way. I got my original impression both from the lore and from the general tone of item descriptions, so it remains, but yeah.
What with emperors, vanishing gods, and strange connections between domains, I'm certain they can do it.
