Wow. I didn't think something this big would ever be implemented. I'm glad for the change. The background felt like it was restricting the ability to do personally lore. I do like cannon lore, but the Beastclans thing was always like, on one hand the relationship between dragons and Beastclan familiar was up for players to fill in, but than the history of dragons and Beastclans was so violet that it didn't feel like staff was really giving us free rain, even when they said they were. Taking away the violet past opens up the option for players to create a range of lore around Beastclan familiars.
Wow. I didn't think something this big would ever be implemented. I'm glad for the change. The background felt like it was restricting the ability to do personally lore. I do like cannon lore, but the Beastclans thing was always like, on one hand the relationship between dragons and Beastclan familiar was up for players to fill in, but than the history of dragons and Beastclans was so violet that it didn't feel like staff was really giving us free rain, even when they said they were. Taking away the violet past opens up the option for players to create a range of lore around Beastclan familiars.
[quote name="samkee00" date="2022-12-14 13:28:59" ]
Also I don't want to read 36 pages of comments but I'm curious if anything is going to be changed in the coliseum, considering the entire mechanic is indiscriminate slaughter often of beastclans, which contributed to my original impression of FR lore
[/quote]
@samkee00 Undel addressed this [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/ann/3193191/17#post_52946881]here.[/url] They've been answering a lot of questions about the lore changes and you can look through them in the Dev Tracker!
samkee00 wrote on 2022-12-14 13:28:59:
Also I don't want to read 36 pages of comments but I'm curious if anything is going to be changed in the coliseum, considering the entire mechanic is indiscriminate slaughter often of beastclans, which contributed to my original impression of FR lore
@
samkee00 Undel addressed this
here. They've been answering a lot of questions about the lore changes and you can look through them in the Dev Tracker!
[quote name="Shadeyrain" date="2022-12-14 13:24:06" ]
I see a lot of others reflecting my same feelings, that this is a welcome change to have a better environment on the site, and the FR team is trying to do the right thing, and new lore, yay! I feel all that, but I also feel that this was...not the perfect move.
ErasingRetconning the problematic lore like it never happened opens up a new can of worms, which many others have pointed out, but the biggest one I'm worried about is the consequences of equating Beastclans with RL events and peoples. Between calling them Beasts/Familiars and pitting them against dragons in Coli, then having dragons "save" them in Coli and being sold or traded to other clans, all of that has colonial undertones that can't be taken away from the game without serious reworking of the system. Clearly the system isn't the problem, it's the lore and the implications of retconning problematic lore that ends up being the problem.
I feel like a better solution would have been to rewrite the old lore. Reframe the narrative to give Beastclans more sympathy, explain the plight of both sides clearly and strip the "dragons are superior" narrative, and then write more lore to bring both sides together against a common evil. (Bonus points if we got a new site feature that allowed users to create their own "Beastclan", where we can display our familiars separately from our dragons with their own personal pages/bios.)
This is only one opinion, but it's not the only one saying the change was a little misguided. It's clear already the FR team wants to create a better site environment, and that's amazing, I really applaud the effort. In this case, maybe it would have been better to ask for more user feedback about the changes the site makes in an effort to better itself in this way.
[/quote]
Echoing this because it reflects my feelings perfectly.
And the idea of being able to have the Beastclan familiars 'upgraded' into being actual allies? That would be AMAZING. I would like that so much more than what we have now, even if it was functionally the same to familiar bonding without being 'attached' to a specific dragon
Perhaps we could just get some sort of simple "friendship" update to link the profiles of dragons to other dragons and beastclans, putting them all on the same level of sapience
Shadeyrain wrote on 2022-12-14 13:24:06:
I see a lot of others reflecting my same feelings, that this is a welcome change to have a better environment on the site, and the FR team is trying to do the right thing, and new lore, yay! I feel all that, but I also feel that this was...not the perfect move.
ErasingRetconning the problematic lore like it never happened opens up a new can of worms, which many others have pointed out, but the biggest one I'm worried about is the consequences of equating Beastclans with RL events and peoples. Between calling them Beasts/Familiars and pitting them against dragons in Coli, then having dragons "save" them in Coli and being sold or traded to other clans, all of that has colonial undertones that can't be taken away from the game without serious reworking of the system. Clearly the system isn't the problem, it's the lore and the implications of retconning problematic lore that ends up being the problem.
I feel like a better solution would have been to rewrite the old lore. Reframe the narrative to give Beastclans more sympathy, explain the plight of both sides clearly and strip the "dragons are superior" narrative, and then write more lore to bring both sides together against a common evil. (Bonus points if we got a new site feature that allowed users to create their own "Beastclan", where we can display our familiars separately from our dragons with their own personal pages/bios.)
This is only one opinion, but it's not the only one saying the change was a little misguided. It's clear already the FR team wants to create a better site environment, and that's amazing, I really applaud the effort. In this case, maybe it would have been better to ask for more user feedback about the changes the site makes in an effort to better itself in this way.
Echoing this because it reflects my feelings perfectly.
And the idea of being able to have the Beastclan familiars 'upgraded' into being actual allies? That would be AMAZING. I would like that so much more than what we have now, even if it was functionally the same to familiar bonding without being 'attached' to a specific dragon
Perhaps we could just get some sort of simple "friendship" update to link the profiles of dragons to other dragons and beastclans, putting them all on the same level of sapience
[quote name="StaticVitals" date="2022-12-14 12:24:33" ]
[quote name="Undel" date="2022-12-14 11:34:43" ]
[quote name="Oakensleaf" date="2022-12-14 11:21:03" ]
I have a question
I know that there are beastclan members that are fight able enemies in the coliseum, will those remain and the lore will be adapted to explain their presence in the coliseum or will they be removed?
[/quote]
The Beastclan opponents in the coliseum will remain. The dragons are not at war with the Beastclans nor are they trying to take their territory, but all life in Sornieth can be susceptible to Shade taint and the dragons can fight and cleanse it in small quantities. If the creature or Beastclan who is cleansed is happy enough, they may even decided to follow you home as your friend! From a mechanic perspective it gives us the ability to have more ways to acquire familiars from our world setting.
[/quote]
I am extremely pleased to not only see an apology regarding this subject but also active changes being implemented. However, I can't help but point out there there appears to be the implication that dragons fighting in the coliseum are inherently 'clean/pure' and are framed as heroic saviors that 'cleanse' Beastclan opponents and other creatures of the Shade. This dynamic reflects the nature/culture dualism ideologies that colonizers use to assign racialized superiority to themselves and inferiority to indigenous groups to justify land dispossession, segregation, ethnocide, exploitation and many other harmful practices. It also reflects similar hygiene narratives colonizers used to justify eugenics and sterilization practices against marginalized groups. There are many Indigenous scholars who critique how current (and historical) colonizer narratives frame colonizers as 'innocent heroes' who are 'saving' marginalized groups from violent and destructive crises that colonizers caused.
The wording of the reply has some problems in that respect.
[/quote]
Hi @StaticVials! I understand how in the context of this thread why our answer reads the way you've described. We'd like to clarify what the Shade is and how it relates to the Coliseum.
The Shade is an otherworldly infestation that impacts everything on Sornieth, not just Beastclans. This is why Coliseum enemies have always included flora, fauna, bugs, enchanted objects, etc. The Shade wants to consume everything on Sornieth, including the dragons. Dragons are not immune to its influence, it's that their ability to harness elemental energy en masse make dragons quite adept at fighting back against it. Beastclans who have learned to harness elemental magic can also fight back against the Shade incursion, though they don't naturally breathe fire or wind. The only reason you're not fighting NPC dragons in the coliseum who are Shade-infested is that within the context of the Coliseum as a feature and mechanic, dragons are player controlled.
StaticVitals wrote on 2022-12-14 12:24:33:
Undel wrote on 2022-12-14 11:34:43:
Oakensleaf wrote on 2022-12-14 11:21:03:
I have a question
I know that there are beastclan members that are fight able enemies in the coliseum, will those remain and the lore will be adapted to explain their presence in the coliseum or will they be removed?
The Beastclan opponents in the coliseum will remain. The dragons are not at war with the Beastclans nor are they trying to take their territory, but all life in Sornieth can be susceptible to Shade taint and the dragons can fight and cleanse it in small quantities. If the creature or Beastclan who is cleansed is happy enough, they may even decided to follow you home as your friend! From a mechanic perspective it gives us the ability to have more ways to acquire familiars from our world setting.
I am extremely pleased to not only see an apology regarding this subject but also active changes being implemented. However, I can't help but point out there there appears to be the implication that dragons fighting in the coliseum are inherently 'clean/pure' and are framed as heroic saviors that 'cleanse' Beastclan opponents and other creatures of the Shade. This dynamic reflects the nature/culture dualism ideologies that colonizers use to assign racialized superiority to themselves and inferiority to indigenous groups to justify land dispossession, segregation, ethnocide, exploitation and many other harmful practices. It also reflects similar hygiene narratives colonizers used to justify eugenics and sterilization practices against marginalized groups. There are many Indigenous scholars who critique how current (and historical) colonizer narratives frame colonizers as 'innocent heroes' who are 'saving' marginalized groups from violent and destructive crises that colonizers caused.
The wording of the reply has some problems in that respect.
Hi @
StaticVials! I understand how in the context of this thread why our answer reads the way you've described. We'd like to clarify what the Shade is and how it relates to the Coliseum.
The Shade is an otherworldly infestation that impacts everything on Sornieth, not just Beastclans. This is why Coliseum enemies have always included flora, fauna, bugs, enchanted objects, etc. The Shade wants to consume everything on Sornieth, including the dragons. Dragons are not immune to its influence, it's that their ability to harness elemental energy en masse make dragons quite adept at fighting back against it. Beastclans who have learned to harness elemental magic can also fight back against the Shade incursion, though they don't naturally breathe fire or wind. The only reason you're not fighting NPC dragons in the coliseum who are Shade-infested is that within the context of the Coliseum as a feature and mechanic, dragons are player controlled.
[quote name="@Morigan" date="2022-12-14 13:36:02" ]
What? I'm sorry, but my brain is refusing to compute right now. I thought the dragons were said to have been created in Beastclan lands, not having just chosen to invade? Can someone please explain to me what's going on? Did that many people really feel our dragons were the bad guys because... what? They dared to be born somewhere somebody smaller and weaker already lived? I'm not mad, mind, just wording things in the smallest possible words because I just... I feel like the slowest kid in the class right now?
[/quote]
In the old site lore, dragons were created specifically to gain territory for their god at whatever cost. They weren't born anywhere technically speaking, they just appeared as a sudden force that came in and, bluntly, massacred large amounts of beastclan in order to settle on the continent. Often this caused massive damage to the beastclan. Off the top of my head, maren were pushed out of their natural water areas into places like the ocean where all but a few immediately died because they're freshwater and couldn't adapt to the extreme change in environment. That's pretty rough even without real world influences at play, to hand to players as something their dragons did at some point.
@
Morigan wrote on 2022-12-14 13:36:02:
What? I'm sorry, but my brain is refusing to compute right now. I thought the dragons were said to have been created in Beastclan lands, not having just chosen to invade? Can someone please explain to me what's going on? Did that many people really feel our dragons were the bad guys because... what? They dared to be born somewhere somebody smaller and weaker already lived? I'm not mad, mind, just wording things in the smallest possible words because I just... I feel like the slowest kid in the class right now?
In the old site lore, dragons were created specifically to gain territory for their god at whatever cost. They weren't born anywhere technically speaking, they just appeared as a sudden force that came in and, bluntly, massacred large amounts of beastclan in order to settle on the continent. Often this caused massive damage to the beastclan. Off the top of my head, maren were pushed out of their natural water areas into places like the ocean where all but a few immediately died because they're freshwater and couldn't adapt to the extreme change in environment. That's pretty rough even without real world influences at play, to hand to players as something their dragons did at some point.
xxxxxxxx
Well this is a pleasant surprise!
I'm sure that the old lore could have been made to work and be compelling with some careful tweaks, but it undeniably put players in a weird position. People don't usual join sites like this one expecting their virtual pets to be canonically complicit in colonialism, so it's perhaps not the best avenue for telling that sort of story, regardless of intent. Plus, though I'm sympathetic as to why it happened, it didn't help that the original Beastclans lore was left hanging for so long without any signs that it would be worked on or resolved somehow.
This seems like the best way to move forward with Beastclans, and I respect the devs a lot for not only making this change, but also giving a clear and thorough explanation why it needed to be changed (and not just getting rid of the old stuff, instead leaving it up with a disclaimer- good choice for accountability). Myself and others who like to stick relatively close to the site lore might have a little personal lore rewriting to do now, but I at least think this change will push me to be a little more creative when writing about Beastclans than I would have been previously.
Well this is a pleasant surprise!
I'm sure that the old lore could have been made to work and be compelling with some careful tweaks, but it undeniably put players in a weird position. People don't usual join sites like this one expecting their virtual pets to be canonically complicit in colonialism, so it's perhaps not the best avenue for telling that sort of story, regardless of intent. Plus, though I'm sympathetic as to why it happened, it didn't help that the original Beastclans lore was left hanging for so long without any signs that it would be worked on or resolved somehow.
This seems like the best way to move forward with Beastclans, and I respect the devs a lot for not only making this change, but also giving a clear and thorough explanation why it needed to be changed (and not just getting rid of the old stuff, instead leaving it up with a disclaimer- good choice for accountability). Myself and others who like to stick relatively close to the site lore might have a little personal lore rewriting to do now, but I at least think this change will push me to be a little more creative when writing about Beastclans than I would have been previously.
[quote name="@Laluzi" date="2022-12-14 12:31:37" ]
Am I the only person who's baffled that they finally addressed this serious issue in lore (which is good - overdue, but good)... and then went and stocked four new humanoid familiars in the treasure marketplace, which was a previously addressed issue to remove any implications of trafficking and slave labor? Because it's kinda whack to me that this happened specifically in an update meant to address sensitivity.
[/quote]
I doubt this mechanic is canon at all. They're trying to make things better! It's just a fun surprise for us players. Would them being added to the coli (and having to fight them to keep them) be any better?
@
Laluzi wrote on 2022-12-14 12:31:37:
Am I the only person who's baffled that they finally addressed this serious issue in lore (which is good - overdue, but good)... and then went and stocked four new humanoid familiars in the treasure marketplace, which was a previously addressed issue to remove any implications of trafficking and slave labor? Because it's kinda whack to me that this happened specifically in an update meant to address sensitivity.
I doubt this mechanic is canon at all. They're trying to make things better! It's just a fun surprise for us players. Would them being added to the coli (and having to fight them to keep them) be any better?
I see a lot of debate about the whole fiction vs reality thing, and this is my take:
There is a difference between fiction that mirrors reality in an actually harmful way (like glorifying abuse, normalizing toxic relationships, just to name a few smaller ones), and fiction that mirrors real life for a point. Both can still hurt you, but one should not, in my opinion, be changed.
If we cannot have dark themes in our stories in case it hurts someone because it mirrors real life, how will any stories ever be told? There's a line to be drawn, yes - again, some media do take bad/toxic/horrible situations and portray them terribly - but by retconning the story here entirely, it feels like the message being told is that fiction CAN NEVER mirror real life, because if it hurts then it HAS to be bad.
I find comfort in media that takes real life aspects, but then shapes them in a way that can give hope for the real world, and in people. Having everything be happy - always - leaves a sickly-sweet taste in my mouth that actually makes me aware of the real world MORE than if the real world were mirrored. Especially when you throw in something as unrealistic as the Shade. Now, if they go for an angle like "the Shade is actually a physical manifestation of the darkness in dragons/beastclans, and by becoming better individuals we can remove this threat from our world", that would help because it better mirrors real life - the very discourse seen on the internet is like a recorded example of the darkness in humanity. And by teaching the next generation to be better, we clear away that darkness. Considering the lore behind the Shade though, I don't expect this angle, which is a shame.
I suppose this just goes to show that you can never please everyone. FR can change their lore as they see fit - it belongs to them, after all - and in doing so they've made on group happy while making another unhappy. It is what it is.
Edited for spelling
I see a lot of debate about the whole fiction vs reality thing, and this is my take:
There is a difference between fiction that mirrors reality in an actually harmful way (like glorifying abuse, normalizing toxic relationships, just to name a few smaller ones), and fiction that mirrors real life for a point. Both can still hurt you, but one should not, in my opinion, be changed.
If we cannot have dark themes in our stories in case it hurts someone because it mirrors real life, how will any stories ever be told? There's a line to be drawn, yes - again, some media do take bad/toxic/horrible situations and portray them terribly - but by retconning the story here entirely, it feels like the message being told is that fiction CAN NEVER mirror real life, because if it hurts then it HAS to be bad.
I find comfort in media that takes real life aspects, but then shapes them in a way that can give hope for the real world, and in people. Having everything be happy - always - leaves a sickly-sweet taste in my mouth that actually makes me aware of the real world MORE than if the real world were mirrored. Especially when you throw in something as unrealistic as the Shade. Now, if they go for an angle like "the Shade is actually a physical manifestation of the darkness in dragons/beastclans, and by becoming better individuals we can remove this threat from our world", that would help because it better mirrors real life - the very discourse seen on the internet is like a recorded example of the darkness in humanity. And by teaching the next generation to be better, we clear away that darkness. Considering the lore behind the Shade though, I don't expect this angle, which is a shame.
I suppose this just goes to show that you can never please everyone. FR can change their lore as they see fit - it belongs to them, after all - and in doing so they've made on group happy while making another unhappy. It is what it is.
Edited for spelling
