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[quote name="Kawaru" date="2018-11-26 15:04:41" ] I actually belive vials are way more important than the scatterscroll, and the latter is always avaliable for the same price . . . The eyes are uncontrolable. You cannot control the odds by any means, which was already a poor decision. Dragons who were born before are totally left out, and so are progens. [/quote] The the scattersights are worse than scatterscrolls, as far as their implementation goes. Look at the bio of the dragon Shian posted, that one has a full listing of how many repeats the dragon had between uncommon/common/unusual/rare before finally landing on a rare eye type. At a glance the dragon also repeated sequences of just uncommon rolls over and over again. That was also a fundamental flaw of the scattervials, particular results were weighted from the start, but they were introduced like they were scatterscrolls which would never give those kinds of results. So to basically bounce between 4 options 206 times (out of 207 total, because the last role was where they stopped) required about 52 vials per failed result. That's incredibly awful even for FR's RNG and that was also a huge problem with the scattervials, a huge part of the reason they were consumed so fast, and pretty much the main reason their rollout went over so poorly. Scattervials appear to actually be best at giving you Unusual/Uncommon eyes and nothing else. They do need to come back at a sustainable level, like the Woodland Turkeys do, or become a cheap brew item (not like Dark Sclera) because of how unreliable they are.

[quote name="Lara8" date="2018-11-26 15:37:04" ] The only reason I'd be hesitant to support this is knowing that some players have invested in scattervials because they assumed that they [b]were[/b] never coming back and thus would eventually climb to an astronomical price. Whether the economic harm to those players would outweigh the harm of all future attempts at dragon-designing on this site being hobbled by an ever-dwindling supply of scattervials...I don't know. [/quote] I'm gonna sound like I'm being sarcastic, and I apologize in advance. It depends on how long they want the site to be around. Some online games are things the creators started for the lols, or as experiments. They run for a few years until their creator gets the next Big Idea, then all production efforts go into the new thing. It's more common in the high-end restaurant industry, but it happens in games too. If they were planning on shutting the site down in the next year or two, then keeping current players happy would be the correct course of action. But everything we've seen so far from Undel and the staff suggests that they're aiming for Neopets longevity. They need to be thinking about players five or ten years down the road. They need to be thinking about the fact that due to open reg, they're going to be getting significantly more new players in the next five years than they did the first five years. And all of them are going to want The Perfect Dragon. I don't want to have to look those newbies in the eye (metaphorically speaking) and tell them that they can't have their dream dragon because some players from 2018 want to keep their "investments" valuable.

@Ridara

No, it's a fair argument - especially because when scattervials originally happened, the mood was 'Well, if people invest in vials and then staff devalues them, investments in other retired items will feel just as unsafe'.

Then Roundsey happened. Regardless of which way you feel about the effect she might or might not have on item economies, she exists and isn't going away. The 'but then ANYTHING could unretire' horse is already out of the barn, as has been mentioned upthread.

I would still feel bad for those players, though - or, for that matter, anyone who bought hundreds at current prices to try and get a special type because they assumed their cost could only ever go up. It's just a lousy situation I wish we'd never gotten into in the first place.

I'm begging the Devs to change thier minds about this 3 days was not enough time for other people to take advantage of the event maybe a week would have been nice.

I support this^^

Definite support! Perhaps they could be brought back for anniversary week every year?

I support this. Considering it was only available for 3 days and is consumable it would make sense for it to come back once a year, even if only for 3 days out of each year.

Edit: Wanted to add. It's the only way to change eyes which are hard to breed for to begin with. Yes, there are players who may have invested in them thinking they'd never come back, but I'm thinking long-term here - even as little as 2 years from now. Are players just never going to have a good way to change eyes ever again because some people who invested in a consumable didn't want it coming back?

[quote name="Lara8" date="2018-11-27 07:02:05" ] Ridara No, it's a fair argument - especially because when scattervials originally happened, the mood was 'Well, if people invest in vials and then staff devalues them, investments in other retired items will feel just as unsafe'. Then Roundsey happened. Regardless of which way you feel about the effect she might or might not have on item economies, she exists and isn't going away. The 'but then ANYTHING could unretire' horse is already out of the barn, as has been mentioned upthread. I would still feel bad for those players, though - or, for that matter, anyone who bought hundreds at current prices to try and get a special type because they assumed their cost could only ever go up. It's just a lousy situation I wish we'd never gotten into in the first place. [/quote] I agree with Ridara. I, as well, wish for neopets' longevity for FR, and feel that having items as important as the scattervials being retired and ultimately out of reach for a great many people down the line, because as some people have said, this doesn't just affect the current batch of players ,but any player in the future who has a progen get the wrong eye type, or finds the perfect colors on a gen 1 but it doesn't have the perfect eye type etc... Those people will also want to customize their dragons, and, here I can only go with what I have experienced, having certain things unobtainable, without good reason, especially when it is something to customize your 'pet', on a site about customizing, doesn't sit well. I have been on sites where a good portion of the items are out of reach of the ordinary player (usually being sold only for premium currency, or if the player buys the premium currency), or where you see something that would be perfect, but it has been retired for ages, and it usually makes me want to support those sites LESS, because it all feels like a money grab. Imperial scrolls are something that can be used to customize our dragons, and they are out of reach of the majority of the player base. However, unlike these vials, there is a very good reason for that: they were a reward for supporting the site BEFORE it was known whether or not the site would even last a year. Scattervials, as far as I can tell, really have no reason to be retired, except that the admins never planned on giving users the ability to customize older dragons in the first place. They aren't a reward for users who supported the site on faith, or anything like that. I also feel somewhat bad for players who may have invested heavily in the vials or bought a lot to use, but on the other hand (and forgive me if this doesn't come out right, it was a long night and has been a relatively long day and still more to go), investing in items comes with its own risks, not the least of which that the site might just poof out of existence. Site staff can go back on their words, they can release something else that makes the 'investment' completely worthless, not even just the item itself, or any number of things can happen. For the players who bought them, wanting to use them, well, unfortunately that is how it works in real life. There have been many times I have bought something, only for it to later come down in value. Some of it was expected, some not. Sometimes I have gone to a different store and found the exact same brands and items there, but for cheaper. With the huge outcry from players who were upset about the scatter vials being retired, and with the introduction of roundsey, quite frankly, scattervials being recycled or unretired shouldn't come as a huge surprise. It may never happen, then again, it could happen tomorrow. Sorry if this is disjointed or bit more rambley than I intended.

The imperial scrolls are even more different than eyes. At least with imperials, we can control breed for an imperial. The only ones cut off are progens and gen 1s. All others can be bred for, and players can specifically control the outcome by breeding two imperials with the genes/colors they need.

And while progens are unique in terms of how the site handles them, Gen 1s are only valuable because the users say they are. So in that sense, the imperial scrolls are different from eyes because a Gen 1 imperial looks no different from a Gen 111 imperial.

Eyes are different. While some players might not notice eyes on small eyed breeds, the fact is that there are very different pixels between common and rare. And there are VERY noticeable differences between common and multi or common and primal. In a site about aesthetics, that is worth discussing.

If I want an imperial that looks a certain way, I know -exactly- what I need to do to get that imperial. Sure, it might not be a Progen or Gen 1, but I can get the appearance I want. If I want to get a specific Fae with nature primal eyes...I am just about SOL (being in the arcane flight at all). I have no way of breeding for that fae on my own without unsanctioned nest rentals. And even if I were to find the perfect parents with the exact right genes and colors, the RNG could just decide to hate my guts and never give me primal. Even on a dragon with short cool downs like a fae. Or, the RNG could give me a male primal fae when I need female.

It's this lack of control, skewed RNG, and unprecedented visual change that really makes imperial scrolls and scatter vials two different kettles of fish (on top of what Jemadar said about KS items).

Then, it's compounded by the fact that the old common eyes were changed and we have yet to get a legacy vial. Those are a lot of problems that can be remedied fairly easy. And they really should be remedied because FR boasts itself as an aesthetic site.