Suggestions

[quote name="Jemadar" date="2019-05-29 20:12:40" ] This here is what I find particularly frustrating about 'breeding only' things. They are all well and fine if you happen to like breeding or are the type to NEVER want to change a dragon. [/quote] Funny enough - I am both of those types of person. I'd rather design a breeding project than gene a G1, and it's very rare for me to change my mind on a dragon's genes once I'm done with it. (In fact, I don't think I've ever overwritten a gene that I've applied since I've been on this site.) The only reason I want tints on my old, previously-perfect dragons is that I never contemplated them being an option before (and, in the case of my Nature dragons, Uncommon is a better match for legacy than Common, but that's a whole other issue). And still, from a breeder's perspective, I find the eye mechanic to be very unfriendly. What I enjoy about breeding projects is that you can take concrete steps to nudge the RNG more and more towards your favor. It takes diligence, it takes calculation and contemplation and lots and lots of food and lairspace, but it's so satisfying to have it pay off in the end. Getting the right eyes on your dream dragon, though, is just pure grinding. Instead of undergoing a breeding project once, you must now do it [b]twice[/b], obtain identical unrelated dragons of opposite genders, then proceed to smash them together (or ask your long-suffering elemental nest host to do so) again and again and again and again and...yeah. No strategy or satisfaction to be had, just frustration. (And again, I've never done a breeding project for anything but tints, nor would I for just this reason.) As a breeder, I will probably never own a dragon with primal eyes, even though I think some of the elements' designs are cool. Because the fun of having one, for me, would be to scry a gene and color combo that would match absolutely perfectly with the eyes, then breed that dragon - but trying to actually [b]get[/b] primal eyes on said dragon would be utterly insane. So I just pretend they don't exist, except of course on the occasions I hatch one from a fodder nest, yawn, and toss it on the AH for a handful of gems.

Utter support for this suggestion. I would beg staff to choose one of these threads at random at this point if I could guarantee at least something would be done. If a player base is still largely unhappy about something --a year-- after it was implemented, maybe the thing needs further adjustment again, eh?

I like a mix of gened and bred dragons, and the eye types are not conductive to either. Some projects would look amazing with this or that eye-type, but the Vials are skewed I don't really want to bother with them and outside of the recent Goat Vials and a couple other exceptions, there's no way at all for me to just, accomplish my design goals sometimes without rolling the dice for potentially over a year- if anyone reading this hasn't seen the speculative statistics on getting a successful breeding project Imperial with Primal eyes it's worth finding if you're not convinced currently.

I have more hope for getting five Eliminates grinding in the Coli(My luck is terrible, I haven't gotten a single Eliminate drop- one is from a pal and two are just from Galore- in my entire time using the Coli) than I do for getting one natural primal breeding project completed :/

A new eye suggestion popped up that is also worth discussing. http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/2690180

That suggestion is for an item that ups the chance of hatching a certain eye type. And while it is a solution that will help many, I feel it is limited as it won't solve the problem of putting new eyes on old dragons.

It's better than nothing, but like Galore, I feel that would only be a single step or a bandage rather than a cure.

I have always and will always support methods to get natural eye types on existing dragons. I have a lair full of old, old permas that cannot be rebred, my progens included.
There have been several different ways suggested in this forum to make it possible for old dragons to get natural eye types, from cyclyng the original scatter vials once a year during every anniversary to individual eye vials obtained by using different site mechanics to transfering eye types from dragon to dragon.
Please, admins, just give us something. I dearly want my custom progen to have primal for lore reasons. I can't rebreed her, nor can I sell her or otherwise make money off the fact that she has primal. I want primal on her purely for lore and asthetics.
As gemajgall has mentioned: There's 2 different markets for natural eye types which rarely if ever overlap. The way these eye types are currently locked behind breeding is frustrating to no end for players like me who get attached to their old dragons and don't want to just throw them out for an eye type. And given that there will likely be more natural eye types in future it'll only get worse.

An example (and I know things like this have happened after goat):
Imagine you just finished a breeding project to replace an old dragon because you want one with those colors but with eye type X, because it fits lore better. You've spent months on getting parents with a close enought color range to produce what you want, because the color combination is rare. You've also had spend months breeding, since you often didn't get the right combination of eyes, sex and color. But you finished it. You've spend treasure/gems gene-ing your new dragon up, perhaps breedchange them, rewrote lore and got it all dressed up and exalted the parents because you don't need them anymore. And then a month or so later out comes a new natural eye type that would fit even better than the one you spent all that time and money to get. And again, it's breeding exclusive. You can now either start from scratch again or just give up.

Are we supposed to not have goal dragons? Like, is that the wrong way to play the game? Because the admin do not support nest lending, but have implemented a total of about 110 eyes that are unavailable to the average user without insane luck. We have a modicum of control over glowing, common, and swirl eyes, bringing the total to about 80 eyes we can't get (even though, technically, we can't generally get a specific dragon of any type of eye not our home Flight). [quote]It’s a new visual attribute you can’t interact with right away[/quote] This quote from the update doesn't seem to get how uninteractable it actually is. I'm surprised they didn't implement some kind of "nest sharing" feature before the eyes. Because we can't not just not interact "right away." I can't interact with Plague eyes period, because I don't have a plague nest. And the odds of my Maize/Sanguine/Metals Iridescent/Shimmer/Glimmer Pearlcatcher female with Rare Plague eyes (for example) just showing up in someone else's nest for no reason is astronomical. There's actually no way to interact with it. Period. It just kind of happens to you. Assuming you're in the Flight you want specific eyes from. The eyes update might have been better implemented along with a way to actually, you know... get them? And/or protect us and our dragons in the pursuit of this feature?

[quote]have implemented a total of about 110 eyes that are unavailable to the average user without insane luck[/quote] This is both true and frustrating and sad. It's also food for thought. Every time a new eye type comes out, there's 10 variations of it we cannot earn with our own power. We have to rely on other users to obtain them. Imagine that was a gene. Here's a lovely new Aurora tert. It's different for everyone else's flights though, and you can only breed for your own flight's. That would be nothing short of frustrating for the entire playerbase. Eyes are the same.

[quote name="gemajgall" date="2019-06-03 05:02:22" ] [quote]have implemented a total of about 110 eyes that are unavailable to the average user without insane luck[/quote] This is both true and frustrating and sad. It's also food for thought. Every time a new eye type comes out, there's 10 variations of it we cannot earn with our own power. We have to rely on other users to obtain them. Imagine that was a gene. Here's a lovely new Aurora tert. It's different for everyone else's flights though, and you can only breed for your own flight's. That would be nothing short of frustrating for the entire playerbase. Eyes are the same. [/quote] This is exactly why I have not supported any type of flight locked gene or breed to ever be suggested. I want and support either site supported nest renting (or dragon lending, which could amount to the same thing) or a way for users to change one of their nests temporarily to a different element or both (I personally would prefer both, I wouldnt' really want to lend my dragons out or rent a nest but would love to brew things to change my own nests, but dragon lending and/or nest renting should really have been a feature before now). This could cut down on at least one source of frustration for these new eye variants, especially the more visible ones, as it would give players the ability to obtain those eyes under their own power, and not rely on being locked into a different flight for 6 months (or more depending on how well they earn gems) or unsupported transactions between players. However, that would also be yet another bandaid on the gaping wound. The basis of the frustration, that I have seen, of many players is simply how many dragons are completely locked out of new eye variants. Existing dragons and future dragons both are locked out of these natural eyes. You see a gorgeous dragon in the scrying workshop, want to replicate it, but only one with the colors exist and it doesn't have the genes or eye variant you want, well you can do something about the genes, but the eye variant, if it is natural, is out of your hands. You are a new player and create your progen, and you find out that goat eyes are a thing. Well, sorry, but you are completely out of luck there. Goat eyes are not in the (diminishing) scattervials, only goat vials are clanbound and were given away for a week through Galore. There is no way to get goat eyes on your progen, because you can't even send your dragon to someone who never used their goat vials. Any new player joining one week after a new natural eye variant is released is pretty much out of luck in getting that eye variant on their progens if they want it. Galore won't be open (and this isn't a suggestion for it to remain open indefinitely or anything like that), and they can't have special eyes show up on a progen (and even if they were avilablem the odds of you getting the specific eye variant a person wants on their progen is astronomical), progens can't be traded, so every new player is out of luck. Even if they joined two seconds after galore's time ends, they are still out of luck. This is only taking into account progens. There are, literally, millions of dragons out there that are locked out of this mechanic, and as new players join, and start breeding, and older players expand their lairs and hibernal dens, this number will only grow. Even dragons born with the 'special' eyes are locked out of different special eyes. You might buy a primal you absolutely love, but at some point decide to sell it. The new owner might hate that particular primal, but want the colors, so they might want to put goat eyes on said dragon. However, the ycan't. Not unless they have a goat vial laying around. THAT is what is frustrating about the entire thing. Having special eyes being breeding only doesn't make dragons any more special than the ywere before, except for a select subset. Most people aren't likely to buy a totally random XYZ primal eyed baby just because it has primal. (there are some , but since primal can't be passed down, it isn't even like a gene, where players might want to get that gene into their breeding pools and so colors don't matter as much). The only group of dragons to really benefit from hatching only eyes are a market that didn't really need a boost: gen 1s. They are really the only dragons I see that having primal eyes on a random colored dragon might be desireable, simply because the odds of it are low, and the hatch can't be repeated (at least not easily). I know there are some people who feel that their joy is mitigated by having others be allowed to 'bypass' breeding and just apply eyes to existing dragons, but I honestly feel those are in the minority. I think most players either wouldn't care, or would be pleased that there is a way to take a 'short cut' to get to what they want, even if they don't use it themselves.

[quote]Every time a new eye type comes out, there's 10 variations of it we cannot earn with our own power. We have to rely on other users to obtain them.[/quote] That's just it, though; we can't even rely on ourselves to get the variations we have access to. It's why the eyes are not comparable to other "breeding only" features like Imperials. You can breed for Imperials. If you put two Imperials together, you get an Imperial. If you get two primal-eye dragons together, you get a common-eye dragon (most of the time). If we could breed for the eyes in any reliable fashion at all (especially given the dubious nest-rental situation), I think I could live with the update. I could hand my two Imperials to another user and know that I'll have my Imperial hatchlings and be fine with the lack of staff support 9 times out of 10. I have to hand off my dragons +/-30 times to get primal-eyed child. That's a 30-fold increase that I'll never get my dragons back with the staff response to be just a shoulder shrug. Now, I've never had a particularly rare-eyed child hatched in another user's nest--rarest I've gotten in such a situation was Facet (and, boy, did it look good). I'm glad the user lending me their nest was kind enough to send back the boy with his parents and siblings, because they didn't have to do that. I suppose, technically, if they'd wanted to keep him, they could have just kept him and that would have been perfectly fine for them to do.

[quote]I think most players either wouldn't care, or would be pleased that there is a way to take a 'short cut' to get to what they want, even if they don't use it themselves.[/quote] Everyone would be able to use individual eye vials, eye transfers, or whatever. So sure, maybe Player X is disappointed that now people can put facet on all their dragons and feels it makes the facet they bred less special. However, maybe X has a different dragon that would benefit from having facet that doesn't have it now. So while X might feel disappointed the first dragon was made "less special," now X can benefit by putting new eyes on the second. But IMO, someone basing his/her happiness off of what others don't have seems to be an unsustainable way to find happiness.

[quote name="gemajgall" date="2019-06-03 17:06:30" ] [quote]I think most players either wouldn't care, or would be pleased that there is a way to take a 'short cut' to get to what they want, even if they don't use it themselves.[/quote] Everyone would be able to use individual eye vials, eye transfers, or whatever. So sure, maybe Player X is disappointed that now people can put facet on all their dragons and feels it makes the facet they bred less special. However, maybe X has a different dragon that would benefit from having facet that doesn't have it now. So while X might feel disappointed the first dragon was made "less special," now X can benefit by putting new eyes on the second. But IMO, someone basing his/her happiness off of what others don't have seems to be an unsustainable way to find happiness. [/quote] I completely agree with you there, I have never really understood that mentality myself. In games, I am happy when I get something 'rare', but it doesn't matter to me if someone else gets it, or obtains it in a different way, nor am I unhappy if the object becomes less rare. The same thing can be said here. Will I be happy to get a primal or faceted or goat hatchling? Not so much because they are fodder dragons and the chances of them being a good combo are low, but It would be nice I guess to hatch it. Would I be upset if I were able to take the lone 'good' dragon from my fodder breeders and give her primal? No. I would be happy, even if I personally didn't WANT primal on her and felt her current eyes are good enough.