Suggestions

I've previously given my support for alternative/challenging ways to obtain eye vials, and I'll support it again.

Support for any of these methods for obtaining eye types.

I believe that the ability to customize our existing dragons is a very important aspect of FR and as already explained in-depth here, "You can just breed a new one" is never a good argument for customization exclusion.

[quote]"You can just breed a new one"[/quote] This is especially frustrating as what happened with Goat is most likely going to repeat itself. When they new eyes came out, we had 6 eyes we would have to completely rebred for if we wanted them on dragons similar to ones we already owned. This sent players on breeding goals. Now, say Player A re-obtained an identical clone to an old, common eyed dream dragon but now it has facet eyes. Great! Except then Goat was released, and locked to breeding only. If goat was even better on the dream dragon then facet, that would force Player A to breed for the same dragon for a THIRD time. Now, that staff did seem to understand the absurdity of that and gave us goat vials. That is, two goat vials. If Player A had three dragons that would be perfect with Goat, A is back to looking at having to rebreed a currently existing dream dragon anyway. Or resort to unsanctioned nest rentals, which aren't site supported. And goat eye vials will only dwindle like the scattervials are, locking all players future and current out of goat eyes on existing dragons. This is just forcing player to rebreed for something they already have. Potentially over and over if the next New Eyes are spiffy enough. That's not fun. That's frustration. And there's so many possible solutions. Just having Galore re-give gifts every so often (even if its every 18 months) would be better than no one, ever, being able to get another goat vial and the entire population of the site, current and future, trying to figure out how to make their dream dragons. Individual eye vials would be awesome--either for purchase or hard work. A lab ray. A variation on the scattervials. Something. Anything. Please.

[quote name="gemajgall" date="2019-05-29 18:07:24" ] [quote]"You can just breed a new one"[/quote] This is especially frustrating as what happened with Goat is most likely going to repeat itself. When they new eyes came out, we had 6 eyes we would have to completely rebred for if we wanted them on dragons similar to ones we already owned. This sent players on breeding goals. Now, say Player A re-obtained an identical clone to an old, common eyed dream dragon but now it has facet eyes. Great! Except then Goat was released, and locked to breeding only. If goat was even better on the dream dragon then facet, that would force Player A to breed for the same dragon for a THIRD time. Now, that staff did seem to understand the absurdity of that and gave us goat vials. That is, two goat vials. If Player A had three dragons that would be perfect with Goat, A is back to looking at having to rebreed a currently existing dream dragon anyway. Or resort to unsanctioned nest rentals, which aren't site supported. And goat eye vials will only dwindle like the scattervials are, locking all players future and current out of goat eyes on existing dragons. This is just forcing player to rebreed for something they already have. Potentially over and over if the next New Eyes are spiffy enough. That's not fun. That's frustration. And there's so many possible solutions. Just having Galore re-give gifts every so often (even if its every 18 months) would be better than no one, ever, being able to get another goat vial and the entire population of the site, current and future, trying to figure out how to make their dream dragons. Individual eye vials would be awesome--either for purchase or hard work. A lab ray. A variation on the scattervials. Something. Anything. Please. [/quote] This here is what I find particularly frustrating about 'breeding only' things. They are all well and fine if you happen to like breeding or are the type to NEVER want to change a dragon. However, if you are like me, and can often change your mind about what you like (which is why on another site that allows users to create customs, I have 4 of them. None of which I am satisfied with), it doesn't work. I might decide that for my dragon, Primal suits his/her nature best and looks the best out of all eye types. So, I breed for a dragon with that eye type that is a clone of my existing dragon. Great, my breeding project is done, nothing has come out in the meantime to make me change my mind, I can move on to other breeding projects (because if I had more than one at a time, I would become hopelessly confused in no time). then they bring out Elemental. It more closely resembles what I had in mind for that character when I first created it, and it is just as pretty or even more pretty than primal on that dragon. So, breeding here I come. Next comes Prismatic. then another, and another. It is a never ending line of breeding projects, and that is for ONE dragon. We can have up to 605 dragons, and some players want to be able to have even more. that just isn't feasible to me. The above hasn't even taken into account what I have said in every other post: some dragons cannot be rebred, either due to gen1 status (including progens), or sentimental reasons etc.. Many players, before goat came out, had 'settled' for the next best thing for their goat eyed characters. Now that Goat is out, they have to rebreed every single one of those dragons if they want them to match the characters they are based upon. For players who have settled on 'good enough' for their dragons, chances are, something even better is going to come out in the future, and that means that if it is a natural gene, they have two chances to make their dragons look like they want. Then if something even better comes out in the future? They ahve pretty much wasted a vial on one of thsoe dragons. Put this in perspective of Genes. Imagine Tertiaries having breeding only genes. I like runes, but I really dislike the feet part of it. Runes would be perfect for so many dragons. But, runes is breeding only. I take that challenge, and breed many runed dragons. Then they bring out a rune version without the feet being affected. All of a sudden all my dragons with runes are not good enough, because I always disliked the feet of runes. I now have to rebreed all those dragons again. Then, they bring out a new 'natural gene'. It isn't runes, but for some of my dragons, it compliments their colors and primary/secondary genes like it was made for them. Have to breed those again. And just repeat to infinity. We do not know what is in store for eyes. There could be eyes that greatly change the looks of a dragon (having larger eyes, or more primal-esque versions where the change is very noticable etc..). They could decide to release a new natural eye every month, for all I know. Expecting players to 1. Constantly rebreed dragons they may have had for years and 2. expecting players to be HAPPY with 1, just isn't reasonable. IF Flight Rising had had these types of eyes in the beginning, and players joined the site KNOWING that there were traits such as the eyes beyond player control and ability to apply directly to a dragon, then it would have been one thing. Players would have had the choice of whether they wanted to get invested in dragons, and whether they wanted to get invested with THESE particular dragons. However, that isn't the case. FR was 5 years old I believe when eye variants had come out. Players had had five years of being able to get attached to dragons and knowing that only element and sex and imperials were beyond changing on a dragon. They had the choice of whether they wanted this dragon as a female or as an imperial or if it needed fire eyes, or did they want to accept this 'close enough version' before they invested time, effort, emotion and money into it. They haven't had that with the eyes. Suddenly they are being told (or at least it feels like it) that they aren't meant to get invested in dragons, and that they should have considered all dragons replaceable. Every time a new natural eye comes out, this will come back up, because it will still feel the same way: that users aren't meant to get invested in individual dragons, that they aren't meant to create their perfect dragons, that all dragons born before an arbitrary point in time is practically worthless, because it never had the chance to have the eyes the dragons born after that point in time did.

[quote]Every time a new natural eye comes out, this will come back up, because it will still feel the same way: that users aren't meant to get invested in individual dragons[/quote] This is mostly what bothers me. I really like having dragons that I've had a long time (not old dragons necessarily--just dragons that have been with me for a long time, dragons whose families have been with me a long time). I have a few dragons I've changed the primary gene on more than once for no other reason than it fit the dragon better. I like to be able to keep the dragons I've been attached to for three years now and change them to suit whatever whim I happen to have. But I also like breeding dragons and I love the flukes that show up in the odds of breeding. I have a [url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=46669257]skydancer[/url] from a mirror/skydancer pair that was hatched despite the odds. Is my enjoyment of a bred skydancer from that pair lessened by the fact that I could have applied the skydancer after the fact? No. No, it's not. And I don't much appreciate being told that my Skydancer is supposed to be less "special," as the staff put it, just because a Skydancer scroll exists. She is special, thanks, and it has nothing to do with her eyes. [url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=42965534]This random primal[/url] I bought of the AH for 20k the month after the update for not really any reason? Not so much. The point is, "special" isn't something that you can force with rarity or RNG. We make our own special dragons, and there's nothing much the staff can do to create or predict our attachment to this game they've created. I was already attached, and I'm going to stay attached to this four-year-old dragon for reasons you can't explain and reasons that random primal hatch are never going to stand up to. And I don't see any real reason for taking away the customization of these actually-special dragons in favor of the artificial (and ultimately not that valuable) "special" the eyes create.

I support this wholeheartedly.

I have breeding projects for fan dragons going on right now, and one of the dragons would be PERFECT with faceted eyes - they'd match the character's official artwork, and give the dragon that final touch of detail I like to focus on with fan dragons (I go really hard w/ them - I like them to be recognizable) - however the catch is - this is for eyes from a different flight.

We've all been over unsanctioned nest rentals - however I trust the system set up currently - I'm both someone who freely rents my nests to users, since I almost never breed, and also rents out nests regularly from other users.

But I hate feeling like a burden to others, and I feel like repeated rentals from one or two people while trying desperately to get both the right combo of colors, sex, and then a rare eye type to top it all off? That's just frustrating. That's not fun. That's not even worth it, frankly. In general I don't find breeding for specific things fun or worth my time. I'd rather buy a perfect dragon outright with the right colors - but now that we've got these eyes - everything's a million times more complicated. There's real stats on how much more but it feels like a million.

I just want to be able to customize my dragons the way I like.

I don't know why staff seems to treat dragons as disposable napkins, but that's how it feels. Just change one out for another when you're done with it.

But that doesn't build player retention. That doesn't build people who want to work towards long term projects when they realize how nearly impossible they will be.

Players can grind, or save up, or turn in items for quests to get things no problem - these are all game mechanics we're used to. But being FORCED to breed for something takes a lot of power from the players, and makes them give up long term goals, or get frustrated and take breaks from the site.

The site cannot make revenue if people leave because they can't sit here and EARN things to customize dragons with (we can earn every other customize item, except eyes). Waiting for eyes to hatch is just that, waiting. It's not engaging with the site, and it's not engaging to me as a player. It's terrible. And it needs to change.

No matter how we get eye type vials, we need All Of Them available in some manner, and NOT finite. Finite bottles are almost worse than not getting any at all. Scattervials were a mistake, sure. But so were the two, limited, clanbound goat vials.

Gotta agree with everything that's already been said. Eye vials of every type need to be available and specific eyes need to be an obtainable goal on all dragons with the necessary work. But you know what? Despite staff's claims about scattervials being a mistake, I don't think that's where the real problem lies.

The mistake was making them the only option and then almost immediately shutting them down at the source. And that's exactly what they've done again with the new Galore "two-vials and then nothing ever again" alternative method.

If when they released the eyes originally they had given people difficult but possible and continually available ways to obtain the eyes as individual vials, then the scattersights would have been fun even if they had retired -though I do think it would have been nicer if they stayed available even if just as a rare or festival-only coli drop. They would have been chance at a shortcut or surprise result, instead of a grueling hopeless battle with terrible RNG and a desperate panicked race to grab as many as you could before the clock ran out and they were gone forever.

Then it would have been a choice, pay 1000g for a primal vial, brew up a Multi-gaze in Baldwin, -or however each eye was sourced. OR take your chances on a eye scatter and hope to get lucky, it would have been something people could decide for themselves which methods worked for them. Really want primal on a particular dragon? Probably better off using a primal vial, you can start saving up it'll always be in the MP no need to panic. Don't have a preference for this dragon, want to roll the dice and see what you get? Scattervial is perfect for you.

Instead people were shown something wonderful and then told they couldn't have it on any of the dragons they love unless they got insanely lucky on an RNG dice roll they would only be able to obtain for 3 days.

And the problem is they are still essentially making the same mistake, holding the existence of eyes out to entice people but refusing to provide a consistent and accessible way to obtain them on a target dragon.
Only now, instead of terrible RNG odds and as many tries as you can afford or are able to obtain. It's two vials with a guaranteed result -if you're around to get them in a narrow window of availability and then beyond those two you are completely locked out of customizing any other dragons with those eyes. Forever. And if you missed getting the 2 free vials? You're out of luck entirely. There's nothing you can really do, aside from risky and unsupported transactions trying to get a vial applied to your dragon by someone else.

[quote]Another method that has been suggested has been transferring eye types. For example, I currently have a fodder dragon with Goat eyes. Say I have a perma dragon with common. I could give the fodder dragon common and the keeper dragon goat. This mechanic needs fleshing out, so it might result in a new NPC in the trading post and/or a high cost of items, currency, and/or time.[/quote] I just wanted to add this is my favorite solution. It keeps the excitement and "special" in breeding, but lets us modify our actual special dragons too. Plus it sounds like just a really fun mechanic.

[quote name="Almedha" date="2019-05-30 09:12:46" ] [quote]Another method that has been suggested has been transferring eye types. For example, I currently have a fodder dragon with Goat eyes. Say I have a perma dragon with common. I could give the fodder dragon common and the keeper dragon goat. This mechanic needs fleshing out, so it might result in a new NPC in the trading post and/or a high cost of items, currency, and/or time.[/quote] I just wanted to add this is my favorite solution. It keeps the excitement and "special" in breeding, but lets us modify our actual special dragons too. Plus it sounds like just a really fun mechanic. [/quote] Honestly this works for me too. Sounds like a good compromise to the staff digging in with the breeding only mechanic and everyone else wanting existing dragons to get cool eye types. Plus this keeps special eyes from being completely fodder for the folks trying to make money off the eyes.

[quote name="thecatsred" date="2019-05-30 09:49:52" ] [quote name="Almedha" date="2019-05-30 09:12:46" ] [quote]Another method that has been suggested has been transferring eye types. For example, I currently have a fodder dragon with Goat eyes. Say I have a perma dragon with common. I could give the fodder dragon common and the keeper dragon goat. This mechanic needs fleshing out, so it might result in a new NPC in the trading post and/or a high cost of items, currency, and/or time.[/quote] I just wanted to add this is my favorite solution. It keeps the excitement and "special" in breeding, but lets us modify our actual special dragons too. Plus it sounds like just a really fun mechanic. [/quote] Honestly this works for me too. Sounds like a good compromise to the staff digging in with the breeding only mechanic and everyone else wanting existing dragons to get cool eye types. Plus this keeps special eyes from being completely fodder for the folks trying to make money off the eyes. [/quote] I don't care much for that particular option, but if it's the only one the staff will give us? I'll accept it with a huge smile. For me, transferring eyes just artificially makes some dragons temporarily more valuable. Fodder dragon is bred with "good" eyes, rip the eyes off and put it in a perma, and exalt the fodder. I also fear it would open the doors to people who want to do the same for breed, color, or genes. Which are all separate mechanics that don't work at all with eyes. Again, if transferring is the only thing we get? Woohoo! At least we get something. And if the staff is planning on doing that, I'd like to know soon. I've gotten lucky and managed to breed fodder with every single rare eye type that exists (and sold them, usually for fodder prices). I would like to know if I'll ever have the ability to rip those eyes off of those dragons and put them on my keepers. Then I'd just stash the fodder in cryosleep until I can steal their eyes.