@
Kodelaine and @
Glub - how is controlling the message of the company you built wrong? They are in no way at fault. This happens in every business whether it is marketing, PR, brand sentiment, brand messages and so many other avenues. Consumers have the right to complain, but the business is not required to keep their negativity (especially where it permeates an entire community) hosted on their site.
That's what baffles me about this situation - FR is their business, website, and it's their forums. They have the absolute right to control any message they desire. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong morally or ethically.
@
Kodelaine and @
Glub - how is controlling the message of the company you built wrong? They are in no way at fault. This happens in every business whether it is marketing, PR, brand sentiment, brand messages and so many other avenues. Consumers have the right to complain, but the business is not required to keep their negativity (especially where it permeates an entire community) hosted on their site.
That's what baffles me about this situation - FR is their business, website, and it's their forums. They have the absolute right to control any message they desire. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong morally or ethically.
@
Arianette Speaking for myself but I don't give a flying fae about what exactly they're doing with their finances. I know that Akiri was able to use FR money to supplement his regular paycheck to the point where he can put a down payment on a house and that's FANTASTIC. I sincerely mean that.
What the users want to know (from consistently hearing the same things over and over again) are:
1) Bug updates (oh we fixed this thing) that are immediately known to the community (via some sort of ticker on the front page or perhaps they could use their twitter for this)
2) The knowledge that things are being worked on and the desire that if the current staff isn't enough then they hire new people.
3) Proper ETAs of things like Balwin's Brew and Adventure mode (the former of which was promised to have been released within months of the KS finishing and yet here we are over a year later)
Otherwise I haven't seen people DEMANDING play by plays of every single detail in any sort of majority. Maybe one or two people here or there but most people are appearing reasonable.
Food for thought but is it so bad that people are wanting some transparency? The way you are phrasing things (and please correct me if I'm misinterpreting you) it sounds like you're in the mindset that because some people are being demanding that there shouldn't be any transparency, or even translucence, and that we should just continue as is because goshdarnit this game is free and we have no right to complain.
@
Arianette Speaking for myself but I don't give a flying fae about what exactly they're doing with their finances. I know that Akiri was able to use FR money to supplement his regular paycheck to the point where he can put a down payment on a house and that's FANTASTIC. I sincerely mean that.
What the users want to know (from consistently hearing the same things over and over again) are:
1) Bug updates (oh we fixed this thing) that are immediately known to the community (via some sort of ticker on the front page or perhaps they could use their twitter for this)
2) The knowledge that things are being worked on and the desire that if the current staff isn't enough then they hire new people.
3) Proper ETAs of things like Balwin's Brew and Adventure mode (the former of which was promised to have been released within months of the KS finishing and yet here we are over a year later)
Otherwise I haven't seen people DEMANDING play by plays of every single detail in any sort of majority. Maybe one or two people here or there but most people are appearing reasonable.
Food for thought but is it so bad that people are wanting some transparency? The way you are phrasing things (and please correct me if I'm misinterpreting you) it sounds like you're in the mindset that because some people are being demanding that there shouldn't be any transparency, or even translucence, and that we should just continue as is because goshdarnit this game is free and we have no right to complain.
[quote name="Arianette" date="2015-01-05 20:19:39"]@Kodelaine and @Glub - how is controlling the message of the company you built wrong? They are in no way at fault. This happens in every business whether it is marketing, PR, brand sentiment, brand messages and so many other avenues. Consumers have the right to complain, but the business is not required to keep their negativity (especially where it permeates an entire community) hosted on their site.
That's what baffles me about this situation - FR is their business, website, and it's their forums. They have the absolute right to control any message they desire. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong morally or ethically.[/quote]
I would personally disagree with the statement that silencing any discussions that criticize a business isn't morally wrong, but I agree it is their right to do so if they so choose. Yes, I am aware morals are highly subjective.
Arianette wrote on 2015-01-05 20:19:39:
@
Kodelaine and @
Glub - how is controlling the message of the company you built wrong? They are in no way at fault. This happens in every business whether it is marketing, PR, brand sentiment, brand messages and so many other avenues. Consumers have the right to complain, but the business is not required to keep their negativity (especially where it permeates an entire community) hosted on their site.
That's what baffles me about this situation - FR is their business, website, and it's their forums. They have the absolute right to control any message they desire. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong morally or ethically.
I would personally disagree with the statement that silencing any discussions that criticize a business isn't morally wrong, but I agree it is their right to do so if they so choose. Yes, I am aware morals are highly subjective.
I hate that "don't like it, don't play" argument. Like, c'mon, put a little critical thought into what you're saying. If everyone quit the moment they came up against something they didn't like... there would be no userbase. There would then be no website.
If we're here and discussing FR's issues, it's because we honestly enjoy FR and we would like to see it be as good as it can be - and right now, issues with things like communication and even censorship are standing in the way of that.
I hate that "don't like it, don't play" argument. Like, c'mon, put a little critical thought into what you're saying. If everyone quit the moment they came up against something they didn't like... there would be no userbase. There would then be no website.
If we're here and discussing FR's issues, it's because we honestly enjoy FR and we would like to see it be as good as it can be - and right now, issues with things like communication and even censorship are standing in the way of that.
@
Maelice, I can respect that you think that people are driven to these sorts of actions by silence, but I dont agree.
Consumerism, at the core is the choice to use a product or a choice to discontinue a product. That's where brand loyalty comes from. I would never even respond to someone inquiring about where their money goes when they purchase something from my company. That money was a choice, the game is free. Sure, you want ALL the things - but I have spent real life money on this game too and never felt slighted.
But there is absolutely no reason this community should feel that they are indebted an explanation of the funds FR receives. Again, consumerism - you chose to buy the product.
I know that people get so passionate about FR because they want it to be more than what it is - but again, that is not owed to anyone. The Dev's have their own plans for the game, and people can either like that or they dont.
I have difficulty understanding why people get upset by this concept. I've never experienced it in my adult life, except on FR.
@
Maelice, I can respect that you think that people are driven to these sorts of actions by silence, but I dont agree.
Consumerism, at the core is the choice to use a product or a choice to discontinue a product. That's where brand loyalty comes from. I would never even respond to someone inquiring about where their money goes when they purchase something from my company. That money was a choice, the game is free. Sure, you want ALL the things - but I have spent real life money on this game too and never felt slighted.
But there is absolutely no reason this community should feel that they are indebted an explanation of the funds FR receives. Again, consumerism - you chose to buy the product.
I know that people get so passionate about FR because they want it to be more than what it is - but again, that is not owed to anyone. The Dev's have their own plans for the game, and people can either like that or they dont.
I have difficulty understanding why people get upset by this concept. I've never experienced it in my adult life, except on FR.
@
Arianette But people aren't wanting a play by play breakdown of what's going on with the finances. Honestly the finances were only brought up in that first thread because of people saying "oh well they don't have the money to hire more coders/other staff" and people like myself using the somewhat hard evidence that the finance site provided to prove that statement unlikely.
@
Arianette But people aren't wanting a play by play breakdown of what's going on with the finances. Honestly the finances were only brought up in that first thread because of people saying "oh well they don't have the money to hire more coders/other staff" and people like myself using the somewhat hard evidence that the finance site provided to prove that statement unlikely.
Right, I don't care about finances. And I reckon the only reason anyone even brought them up is because people are inclined to start wondering what's going on behind the scenes because we so rarely get any real communications from the admins about any issues whatsoever. I do want to know why bugs that have been around for a year now have not been fixed, for example.
Right, I don't care about finances. And I reckon the only reason anyone even brought them up is because people are inclined to start wondering what's going on behind the scenes because we so rarely get any real communications from the admins about any issues whatsoever. I do want to know why bugs that have been around for a year now have not been fixed, for example.
@
clocks, I do see validity in what you're saying. And in no way am I saying it should be a 'give up when things get hard' sort of situation. But if you find yourself vigorously typing out replies on a forum about internet dragon drama on a consistent basis, it is really only common sense to stop doing the thing that makes you so angry.
Terrible metaphor here but, if someone really likes to eat ice cream but is lactose intolerant, the advice I'm going to give them is to stop eating ice cream, or find another alternative. It's really no different than what I have been saying above. Play FR, or dont. No one is forcing you.
Discussing FR's issues is one thing, but that thread was not innocent. Let's respect each other enough to admit that it was not all constructive feedback.
I'm not even going to address the censorship because it'd be repetitious.
@
clocks, I do see validity in what you're saying. And in no way am I saying it should be a 'give up when things get hard' sort of situation. But if you find yourself vigorously typing out replies on a forum about internet dragon drama on a consistent basis, it is really only common sense to stop doing the thing that makes you so angry.
Terrible metaphor here but, if someone really likes to eat ice cream but is lactose intolerant, the advice I'm going to give them is to stop eating ice cream, or find another alternative. It's really no different than what I have been saying above. Play FR, or dont. No one is forcing you.
Discussing FR's issues is one thing, but that thread was not innocent. Let's respect each other enough to admit that it was not all constructive feedback.
I'm not even going to address the censorship because it'd be repetitious.
@
Arianette But I'm not angry? So I am not allowed to have opinions (nor the time to post them in) if they happen to be less-than-positive towards a site's developers? I would really urge you not to ascribe certain feelings or motivations to people that may not be there.
@
Arianette But I'm not angry? So I am not allowed to have opinions (nor the time to post them in) if they happen to be less-than-positive towards a site's developers? I would really urge you not to ascribe certain feelings or motivations to people that may not be there.
@
Arianette tbqh I play FR because I want to see what they end up doing in terms of management and I enjoy the game legitimately and it's the best of what it's doing as of right now (there are some competitors gearing up to be open by the end of next year) but they're not getting my ad revenue money until I see the admins take the site in a more positive direction, at least on their half.
@
Arianette tbqh I play FR because I want to see what they end up doing in terms of management and I enjoy the game legitimately and it's the best of what it's doing as of right now (there are some competitors gearing up to be open by the end of next year) but they're not getting my ad revenue money until I see the admins take the site in a more positive direction, at least on their half.
