Announcements & News

[quote name="Aequorin" date="2023-10-27 09:10:26" ] [...] As for deletion, we did not launch with it in the interest of accident-proofing, given that they're opt-in. We're discussing adding the ability to delete and what accidental deletion prevention(s) to deploy that functionality with. [/quote] @Aequorin sorry to bother you with a ping, but I have a couple ideas (not sure if they've been brought up by other players or the dev team yet, but I'll mention them anyways) If it hasn't already been considered, maybe add a sort of "recycle bin" that stores your deleted pinglists for, say, 30 days before deleting them permanently? This way players can revive a pinglist if they deleted it on accident or change their mind. They can also delete things out of their recycle bin early, if they choose. I also propose that there is a minimum 1-day cooling off period between a pinglist being recycled and then manually deleted, just in case. You could also make it so that everyone who is subscribed to the pinglist receives a notification saying that the pinglist was deleted (maybe with a custom message from the pinglist's creator to inform them the reason for deletion, for example). This would only happen once it's been permanently deleted from a player's recycle bin, not just recycled (to prevent players from deleting and reviving pinglists to spam the users on it with notifications). Also, another player suggested this and I wanted to mention it as well: [quote name="Hawkfeather" date="2023-10-27 10:19:57" ] If I could make a quick suggestion: another game I play makes you type out the full, exact name of the thing in the deletion window before you can actually delete it. Maybe making people type out the name of the pinglist they want to delete would help? Could even make them select the correct emoji. Deleting pinglists would be super nice to have, but probably not something we'd be doing super frequently, so I think the process being a little tedious to prevent accidents would be okay. Thanks for all your hard work! [/quote] Looking forward to seeing the direction this project takes!

How would the pinglist update work for things like G.A.P. and G.A.S.P and O.D.C.A. where the lists were designed to be use by multiple people pinging for specific skin or adopt types? They would be unusable without a mass ping feature, since with the new pinglist they are locked for usage by their creator only.... Can there be an option to share a pinglist? Otherwise, how would this work for things like GAP, GASP and ODCA?

[quote name="Aequorin" date="2023-10-27 09:10:26" ] [quote name="hungryhobbits" date="2023-10-27 08:27:05" ] [quote name="@Aequorin" date="2023-10-27 07:14:54" ] [quote]With the cap of 50, the ability to delete would be very handy.[/quote] @/Fehn, the cap has already been adjusted and raised. There's room now for players to be fairly granular about their pinglists while also protecting our infrastructure. [emoji=new friend size=1] [/quote] how many pinglists are we allowed to have now? i can't find it in the main post and i've read through like three times but i could be missing it (if i am i'm sorry) [/quote] [quote name="Fehn" date="2023-10-27 08:49:56" ] [quote name="Aequorin" date="2023-10-27 07:14:54" ] [quote]With the cap of 50, the ability to delete would be very handy.[/quote] @/Fehn, the cap has already been adjusted and raised. There's room now for players to be fairly granular about their pinglists while also protecting our infrastructure. [emoji=new friend size=1] [/quote] Awesome! I'm still wondering if deleting will be allowed though. If your hatchery closes, or you no longer offer something that people wanted pings for... I imagine there would be a lot of reasons to delete a pinglist you don't use anymore. [/quote] Players are now able to create up to 300 pinglists of any size, meaning that the number of subscribers to your onsite pinglists are not, have not been, and will not be capped. As for deletion, we did not launch with it in the interest of accident-proofing, given that they're opt-in. We're discussing adding the ability to delete and what accidental deletion prevention(s) to deploy that functionality with. [/quote] @Aequorin Thank you for the update! I am eager to get this system working in a way that works well; so knowing you guys are considering this is fantastic. Thank you for your hard work and for considering all the feedback on this feature. As for accidental deletion proofing; perhaps you can only delete a pinglist from the 'edit' screen, rather than the main pinglist page. So you'd have to go in to edit the list, and then the delete button is on this page. You get a confirmation pop up that says something akin too 'Are you sure you want to delete 'pinglist name'? This action cannot be undone'. Put the delete/clear buttons somewhere away from the 'save changes' button to avoid accidental pressing that way too. Its not 100% fool proof of course, but its a start at the very least. Can I suggest we also are able to clear a pinglist of subscribers as the pinglist owner (once the pinglist is no longer needed)? In the interest of re-using a pinglist rather than having to delete and create new ones. This would need a similar accidental deletion system too but, recycling is usually better than using more resources right? :D And since the pinglists ARE editable and they're opt in only, being able to potentially clear it and rename it would be a gamechanger for me.

[quote name="ValidEmotions" date="2023-10-27 02:56:37" ] [quote name="jackaling" date="2023-10-26 22:52:30" ] [quote name="butcherbaby" date="2023-10-26 22:36:49" ] [quote name="Xaz" date="2023-10-26 20:18:44" ] @‘ValidEmotions it's their game. Yes I expect them to know more about the player base than the normal person. Like??? That is their job. If they are blind sided then they owe it to themselves to learn why. And just because you don't use GASP or engage with the UMA part of FR (which judging by your lair and mostly fest skins you don't (this is not a condemnation merely an observation)) doesn't mean it's not a truly HUGE part of the site overall. It is a major part of why FR has such a robust and stable economy. Sometimes people on FR (I'm not speaking directly at you) act like it's such a burden for staff to do X when X is literally a normal and expected part of their job. It is a fully normal and expected part of a game devs job to play the game they are making be it a small indie company or a big company like Bungie. [/quote] @‘Xaz EXACTLY this. It’s their game, they should know EXACTLY how people play and use the features that exist, especially if players use them in ways they have developed themselves that go over & above or beyond what developers had in mind when they designed them. They should know more about how people play the game than any but the oldest & most dedicated players, this should all quite literally be the kind of institutional knowledge that gets written down & shared among employees the help them develop the best and most player friendly game possible. When decisions come from the top down without taking into consideration players wants and needs, the result is *slowly spreads arms* threads like this. And as you mentioned, and I considered mentioning in my first post, but felt like I’d already covered enough- this is not the first time staff has been blindsided by the negative reactions to major changes that should have been entirely positive but came with major downsides because they did not know what players really wanted or needed in that feature/did not listen to player feedback BEFORE the changes were made. @/ValidEmotions I’m not sure why you can’t see the difference in the level of site knowledge a casual player whose not involved with dom, g1/special dragon collecting, accent making/buying, breeding/buying bred dragons, or any of the other myriad activities these large, active, public pinglists are used for would need to have about those pinglists or how people use them, and the level of site knowledge that staff and developers would need to have about those pinglists and how people use them, especially if they are specifically trying to develop a feature to replace those often quite complex offsite pinglists (some of which, like GASP, are whole entire WEBSITES specifically created for this purpose!) I really don’t think that as a casual user who didn’t even know these pinglists exist (I’ve been here since 2014 as well, am quite active, and have been aware of most the large pinglists for things I definitely DON’T participate in for pretty much as long as they’ve existed) you are any more aware than staff that the THOUSANDS of people who rely on these pinglists (both to alert others and to be alerted) are the BACKBONE of the site.[/quote] this is exactly the thing, these tools are critically important to those who utilize them- thousands of active users- but even so, our communities aren’t really big enough to justify fully implementing the complex tools we use to sustain ourselves. i barely even use mass pings besides gasp myself, so i’m not only upset that [i]my[/i] experience is being disrupted. it’s that the myriad user-run tools are important, complex, and not entirely feasible to implement on-site because they cater to communities that aren’t the majority and would require a great deal of work to build from the ground up. [/quote] @xaz it's a little self absorbed to believe that your level of activity is what keeps this site going. Don't you think? Like @/jackaling said, just because some portion of the community is "super active" and uses massive ping lists, doesn't mean you're the vast majority nor the "backbone" of the website. It just simply means you're louder than the rest of us. Let staff focus first on making sure everyone is safe and the website is fully stable. Then they can better focus on more complex designs. [/quote] @ValidEmotions Personally, I’d opine that it’s more than “a little self absorbed” for an extremely casual player to assume they know more about which players contribute to a healthy dragon economy & active forum on the site than people with years of experience as active, dedicated players who have been involved in or are adjacent to the many activities participated in by THOUSANDS of users which can only be maintained by the use of complex & detailed offsite pinglists. Even if those aren’t the “majority” of players, they are a large enough core of players that destroying their ability to keep their groups active WILL affect the site in a very negative way. Alienating their core customers is one of the worst moves [i]any[/i] business can possibly make.

This Pinglist thing is great! I'm now encouraged to start a hatchery again!

I have a small suggestion though. Would it be possible to make the pinglists in our "manage pinglists" place sortable by the list name and by owner?

@butcherbaby You literally called your corner of the community the "backbone" of Flight Rising, but I'm the "self absorbed" one? I've been on this site since 2014; you have no insight to my levels of participation over nearly a full decade of playing this game. Again, there is far more than just your brand of activity. Activity on Flight Rising isn't going to perish/become non-existant simply because you can't ping an outrageous amount of players outside of a Ping List whenever you want. You aren't "core customers". You're not "linchpins" that the very existence of the website depends upon. Flight Rising is far more than just its Forum Boards.

@ValidEmotions
Butcherbaby didn't even say it would destroy the community, just that it would be impacted in a very negative way, which is totally true
You have to understand how big these groups are and what it would mean to disband them, just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, these huge pinglists are crutial for so many sales and advertising!
We can just hope a healthy balance will be reached with this

[quote name="theNightmareKing" date="2023-10-27 13:14:53" ] @ValidEmotions Butcherbaby didn't even say it would destroy the community, just that it would be impacted in a very negative way, which is totally true You have to understand how big these groups are and what it would mean to disband them, just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, these huge pinglists are crutial for so many sales and advertising! We can just hope a healthy balance will be reached with this [/quote] @theNightmareKing and that's what the staff have already acknowledged they're going to try to do as best they can with the infrastructure of the website and with safety and stability in mind. It's unfair and unfounded for players to jump on staff about the mass pings that are not going away for the time being until such a 'balance' is crafted. Players were crafty enough to create off-site tools (and unfortunately too many players have been abusing said tools to increasing levels over the years). Guarantee, players will continue to be crafty enough to find replacements in the future if they're still not happy with the staff's continuously updating/evolving solutions.

[quote name="BMO" date="2023-10-27 08:24:46" ] I don't think the pinglist is an oversight of the player's usage as-is; I just think that they're not done with it yet and they're being transparent along the way, like we asked them to, so that we could give feedback. The features we want, as we want them, will take time to develop. They've done great keeping us updated in the meantime.[/quote] The issue here is that if they had gotten player input BEFORE designing the new system, they would have known what players wanted & needed in a pinglist feature and been able to plan and design it with that in mind, even if the system they initially introduced was much more basic while they worked out all the kinks. As it is, they appear to be completely surprised by the fact that most people who rely on pin lists absolutely require a much more complex and customizable system that is currently in place, and I’m sure it does not feel good for the devs & other people behind the scenes to put in tons of work on a feature like this only to be met with a huge wave of negativity because they did not have a layer needs in mind while designing it, and I know it doesn’t feel good on this end to continually feel like major features are designed without consideration of how the game is actually played. Getting player feedback and a feel for how people actually play the game would have gone very far to eliminating the bad feelings on BOTH sides of this issue. I mean, this feature was launched completely lacking some of the [i]most basic[/i] functionalities required to make it useful- the ability for list owners to delete, clear, and edit individual names off of lists. Regardless of the fact that it’s too simple to be useful for he majority of people who rely on pinglists, it was launched without even being COMPLETE. I cannot fully describe the genuine shock & astonishment I felt when I first read a comment saying lists could not be deleted- I literally yelled WHAT?! out loud and startled my dogs, lmao. I totally understand the concerns they have with avoiding accidental deletions, but it’s still not an excuse for releasing this feature BEFORE they found workable solutions to that issue.

[quote name="ValidEmotions" date="2023-10-27 13:19:48" ] [quote name="theNightmareKing" date="2023-10-27 13:14:53" ] @/ValidEmotions Butcherbaby didn't even say it would destroy the community, just that it would be impacted in a very negative way, which is totally true You have to understand how big these groups are and what it would mean to disband them, just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, these huge pinglists are crutial for so many sales and advertising! We can just hope a healthy balance will be reached with this [/quote] @/theNightmareKing and that's what the staff have already acknowledged they're going to try to do as best they can with the infrastructure of the website and with safety and stability in mind. It's unfair and unfounded for players to jump on staff about the mass pings that are not going away for the time being until such a 'balance' is crafted. Players were crafty enough to create off-site tools (and unfortunately too many players have been abusing said tools to increasing levels over the years). Guarantee, players will continue to be crafty enough to find replacements in the future if they're still not happy with the staff's continuously updating/evolving solutions. [/quote] @/ValidEmotions I think there has been a massive case of miscommunication in the whole thread so far, the original post clearly states that mass pinglists [b]are going to be removed[/b] [quote]One final note: In the near future, we will be removing the option to send "mass pings". Simply put, this means the method of pinging multiple users that has existed until now. [/quote] Seems very set in stone, yet afterwards there were some cases of talking over that and a bit of hypocrisy, at this point I don't even know what's decided and what isn't. We also don't know if the time we have are weeks or months, it's very nerving. To say it's unfair for players to "jump the staff" is ignorant. Noone's jumping anyone, we're providing feedback and voicing our concerns, it's also the team's job to listen and improve.