Flight Rising Discussion

The Lightning ancient teaser got me thinking. This is mostly an incoherent shower thought, but what if they were the first ancients? Stormcatcher left the pillar first, and if I’m remembering correctly he wasn’t exactly impressed with the outcome.
Maybe the new ancients were a solution of some sort, to him? In a different way than Gaolers.

To me, the big sails remind me of dimetrodon and how they could use their sails to regulate temperature, so they’re probably from Carrion Canyon or the other more deserty parts of Lightning.

This also got me thinking- Imperials are described as Lightweaver’s first children, but obviously Light will get an ancient at some point. Aside from disowned ancients or something like that- what if Imperials are her first, but there’s an ancient version of them? Something similar but rougher around the edges before they slowly adapted and were shaped for the modern era. In other words, still “imperials” (thus “first children”) but an ancient version of them.

Thoughts?
What do you feel like is the “most ancient” ancient? The newest?

Not sure about the order of Ancients, but on the topic of the Light Ancient: My prediction is that they were made as warriors to fight Emperors, but were either defeated or made a very long-term tactical retreat, and they were forgotten about, but they’ve made their return one way or another to fight Luminax. In which case, they would have come after Imperials. But I’m excited to see how staff handles the “they’re ancient vs Lightweaver’s first children” situation!

The existence of Light Ancient(s) doesn't have to retcon the fact that Imperials are Lightweaver's first childern.

There's a lot of about Imperial lore that if the Ancient breeds had existed in the game at the start, they most certainly would have been an Ancient breed. As it is, Imperials are probably one of the oldest Modern breeds, if not the oldest. They very much straddle the line between Ancient and Modern from a lore perspective.

The theory that Lightweaver created her Light Ancient after Imperials in response to the threat of Emperors is the one that makes the most sense.

Another idea to consider is that there are Ancient breeds who are born from pure magic and thus owe no allegiance to any flight. But nothing says that some of these Ancients couldn't eventually choose to serve a deity. Or perhaps even have a deity recruit them.

There are ways to make this work.

Stormcatcher was the first to leave, but Windsinger wanted to create "thousands of children" to clean up the skies when he left the pillar, so I like to think the Wind Ancient was the first dragon entirely while Stormcatcher sat in his office for a few extra months to build a new plan before making his creations. Though it'd be neat if it turns out another deity actually made a dragon before Windsinger. It's hard to pin out the order for the rest because all the stories exist in a vacuum. There's probably a point where all 11 ancients existed at the same time for several centuries, but whether or not Flamecaller and Shadowbinder created Banescales and Veilspuns in the same month/year/decade is very hard to say. Plaguebringer and Gladekeeper probably did with their ancients (Aberrations and nature ancient) given how their rivalry works, but the other flights are harder to pin down. My purely personal guess on the exact order is probably... [LIST=1] [*][emoji=wind rune size=1] [b]Wind[/b] - Windsinger's quote when he left the pillar from the [url=https://flightrising.com/main.php?p=wiki&article=19]Epilogue[/url] story: [quote][i]I will create thousands of children,[/i] thought the Windsinger, [i]the air will be cleansed and painted in a plethora of colored brushes. My flight will carry the stories of the realm, and tell of its history. A pity that the others will never know a similar joy.[/i][/quote] [*][emoji=plague rune size=1][emoji=nature rune size=1] [b]Nature & Plague[/b] - Gladekeeper and Plaguebringer have the most combative dragon breeds, and when the pillar broke, it's probably their very first experience dealing with multiple enemies at once (Shade, the first 8 deities wanting land, etc.), so they would probably be desperate and do weird things with their magic and inevitably create dragons to defend their territory. [*][emoji=ice rune size=1] [b]Ice[/b] - Gaolers were created to lock up Shadebeasts/Shade remnants, so their creation should've been very early, just not as early as Plague and Nature. [*][emoji=fire rune size=1] [b]Fire[/b] - Banescales (or at least the society before it died off) are noted to be warriors. While all ancients are inherently combative to secure territory for the gods, if one species is more warrior-like than others, it was probably created earlier. There is also a very old Fire/Nature war mentioned in the Amber tooltip, which is a war that can only take place after the pillar incident since it's the only time Flamecaller and Gladekeeper are awake and able to fight, though admittedly I'm unsure if it's just an actual god fight or a metaphorical one (armies involved). It's awkward since this tooltip is very old: [item=Amber] [*][emoji=light rune size=1] [b]Light[/b] - It should be noted that regardless of when they were created, Imperials came from an ingredient harvested in an ancient battle site and they came out wrong. When Lightweaver woke up from the pillar, she noticed the sun rays in the sky were weak thanks to the Shade. If dragons are made from concentrated elemental magic (and the gods too given how each one was created), then it's possible light magic might've been cut off due to the partially-blocked sunlight and why Lightweaver needed a different source of magic to create life. Not sure on how Light Ancients would be created aside it from being another light magic source entirely. Not the sun. Maybe the ruins? Also from the [url=https://flightrising.com/main.php?p=wiki&article=19]Epilogue[/url] story: [quote]The Lightweaver opened her eyes to the devastation, stricken immediately by the bleak and sorrowful condition of the sky. The sun was rising, but its rays were fettered and obscured by strings of darkness that crept from on high. They faded as they fell, like rivulets of drying ink.[/quote] Imperial dragon entry on the shed essence bit [url=https://flightrising.com/main.php?p=wiki&article=29]here[/url]: [quote]Imperials were Light's first children, an amalgamation of bone, blood, and the shed essence of the Lightweaver - excavated from ancient battle sites of the [url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?p=wiki&article=6]First Age[/url]. This reclaimed essence was a finite resource; no new Imperials have been shaped by the gods in a millennia, though the species has no difficulty replenishing its numbers. These dragons have incredibly unpredictable lifespans. Some individuals live only a decade, while others thrive for hundreds of years. [/quote] [*][emoji=shadow rune size=1] [b]Shadow[/b] - Veilspun have a connection to the portal and therefore Light flight. There's not too much info on them but it's likely they were created to combat Light dragons (Imperials and Light Ancients) just because of the Shadow/Light rivalry, and also because Lightweaver & Shadowbinder have a strong desire to keep control over the abandoned sun-and-moon-themed ruins their land sits on. ((The elements below are actually free-floating, they can sit anywhere to be honest, but I'm putting them down here because I'm indecisive)) [*][emoji=lightning rune size=1] [b]Lightning[/b] - Stormcatcher wanted to deal with the Shade threat, but him arriving to the same conclusion of "I need kids to do the work" is bugging me when machines exist instead. Either he really did create lightning dragons just as early as Windsinger, or much later after a lot of experiments to deal with the Shade failed. [*][emoji=water rune size=1] [b]Water[/b] - I'm undecided on Water currently especially given Tidelord's foresight ability. Either he's one of the first to create children, which would make sense given the HUGE expanse of water on Sornieth, or one of the last because he knew the consequences of creating Undertides. [*][emoji=earth rune size=1] [b]Earth[/b] - ...Depends on how badly Earthshaker coped with the other deities leaving the pillar and why he created earth ancient to begin with. Either his first children were prioritized to help get over Earthshaker's family issue, fight the Shade, or both but all 3 meddle with exact timeline placement in one way or another. [*][emoji=arcane rune size=1] [b]Arcane[/b] - There is not a lot of incentive for him to have children beyond protecting the library and his home, but Aethers aren't very good at combat and they proved to be destructive to Arcanist's library. I just don't think they're particularly old ancients.[/LIST] [b]TL;DR[/b]: Wind -> Plague & Nature -> Ice -> Fire -> Light -> Shadow -> Lightning? -> Water? -> then Earth or Arcane?

The thing with machines is, they have absolutely zero problem-solving skills. I have no issue believing Stormcatcher tried machines first and then got absolutely fed up with them and smote them off the face of the planet (but probably still expected his ancients to be perfectly obedient as well... that could backfire badly).

[quote name="Renaiwom" date="2023-05-15 16:22:48" ] The thing with machines is, they have absolutely zero problem-solving skills. I have no issue believing Stormcatcher tried machines first and then got absolutely fed up with them and smote them off the face of the planet (but probably still expected his ancients to be perfectly obedient as well... that could backfire badly). [/quote] If it turns out the Lightning ancient rebelled against Stormcatcher, that would be hilarious. They unionized against their god.

Just noting; the Imperials may bit the LIghtweaver's first children, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were her first creation.

It's entirely possible that she created something else prior to Imperials, but doesn't view those creations as "her children" the way she does Imperials.

[quote name="Madarakita" date="2023-05-15 19:59:17" ] Just noting; the Imperials may bit the LIghtweaver's first children, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were her first creation. It's entirely possible that she created something else prior to Imperials, but doesn't view those creations as "her children" the way she does Imperials. [/quote] considering the way she views her "children", i dont want to know what she's done to her disowned creations...

Since Imperials are made from Lightweaver's own essence, maybe they are more adaptable than other Ancients (and can thus breed with moderns). So they could be first creations and the Ancient could be a less adaptable, more rigid second creation.