[quote name="ahzidal" date="2023-12-26 11:42:37" ]
[b]"because they want to".[/b]
[/quote]
Exactly my thinking. People own dragons and they do whatever they want with them - it’s their property. They can sell them, exalt them, keep in their lair, give silly names. And they can also sell them by any price they want. Simply because it’s their right as an owner.
ahzidal wrote on 2023-12-26 11:42:37:
"because they want to".
Exactly my thinking. People own dragons and they do whatever they want with them - it’s their property. They can sell them, exalt them, keep in their lair, give silly names. And they can also sell them by any price they want. Simply because it’s their right as an owner.
I own one of each XXX dragon, and I think the most I paid for a XXX was 450G?
I own one of each XXX dragon, and I think the most I paid for a XXX was 450G?
[quote name="ShiningLatios" date="2023-12-26 10:49:42" ]
I feel like there's a more simple answer here where even if you list every single hatchling you breed for fodder floor, if you breed your dragons enough you will ALWAYS see returns on them eventually. I'm a person that doesn't mind long lineage lists on my dragons that I breed; I think it's fun in fact! and there is the simple fact that selling just 10 hatchlings for a fodder floor of 5.5kt will net me 55kt in earnings before tax is taken out. 20 hatchlings is over 100kt, which is around the cost of some ancient genes. so if I'm breeding an ancient pair then 20 hatchlings (it doesn't even have to be THEIR hatchlings, ANY hatchlings I sell can be an easy 5.5kt) sold will have paid for one of their genes. and since dragons can be bred infinitely the returns I see are theoretically infinite no matter how cheap I make my hatchlings.
so I guess the tl;dr of it is, I don't gene up my dragons and breed them to become a hatchery-owning FR billionaire, I just do it because it's a fun, easy thing that also makes me money with almost zero effort. hatchlings go brrrrrrrr
[/quote]
I think you're missing the point a little. Sure, on a long enough timeline money will accumulate from selling hatchlings (and plenty of things are [i]theoretically[/i] infinite, but by that logic, where is the incentive for anyone to gene and breed pairs with more expensive genes rather then just cheap fodder?
(To give you a concrete example here, I just finished gene-ing an auraboa pair that I know I'm going to lose money on. This was for my own enjoyment, so whatever, but we'll use them for this example because I actually remember how much they were. Breed changes and double gem genes on two different dragons cost ~3milt. Assuming I make a profit of ~10k on each hatchling they produce, since I level and exalt rather than sell my fodder - already bringing these kids to twice your profit margin - that's 300 dragons from this pair just to break even on them. Assuming an average of 3 eggs a nest, 100 nests. At a 20 day cooldown, that is now already 5 and a half years of nesting them every single time their cooldown resets).
The only way desirable color combos and gem genes are going to be bred into various ancients is if enough people think it's worth the money to shell out for them, and given the added complication that every new ancient needs to be gened from scratch - since they can't just be breed changed from an existing, pre-gened dragon like a modern breed - I feel like it's obvious why someone might be discouraged from being told their carefully planned out and expensive pairs aren't worth anything more than fodder price (especially when said offspring are still being sold for far cheaper than it would cost to gene a dragon from start to finish).
...Mind you, I don't have a solution here either. Dragons are one of the most available resources in the game and will only decline in value, but I also can't fault people for being discouraged by just how diminishing those returns are on trying to gene and breed new things, especially where the ancients are concerned because of their wonky genes.
ShiningLatios wrote on 2023-12-26 10:49:42:
I feel like there's a more simple answer here where even if you list every single hatchling you breed for fodder floor, if you breed your dragons enough you will ALWAYS see returns on them eventually. I'm a person that doesn't mind long lineage lists on my dragons that I breed; I think it's fun in fact! and there is the simple fact that selling just 10 hatchlings for a fodder floor of 5.5kt will net me 55kt in earnings before tax is taken out. 20 hatchlings is over 100kt, which is around the cost of some ancient genes. so if I'm breeding an ancient pair then 20 hatchlings (it doesn't even have to be THEIR hatchlings, ANY hatchlings I sell can be an easy 5.5kt) sold will have paid for one of their genes. and since dragons can be bred infinitely the returns I see are theoretically infinite no matter how cheap I make my hatchlings.
so I guess the tl;dr of it is, I don't gene up my dragons and breed them to become a hatchery-owning FR billionaire, I just do it because it's a fun, easy thing that also makes me money with almost zero effort. hatchlings go brrrrrrrr
I think you're missing the point a little. Sure, on a long enough timeline money will accumulate from selling hatchlings (and plenty of things are
theoretically infinite, but by that logic, where is the incentive for anyone to gene and breed pairs with more expensive genes rather then just cheap fodder?
(To give you a concrete example here, I just finished gene-ing an auraboa pair that I know I'm going to lose money on. This was for my own enjoyment, so whatever, but we'll use them for this example because I actually remember how much they were. Breed changes and double gem genes on two different dragons cost ~3milt. Assuming I make a profit of ~10k on each hatchling they produce, since I level and exalt rather than sell my fodder - already bringing these kids to twice your profit margin - that's 300 dragons from this pair just to break even on them. Assuming an average of 3 eggs a nest, 100 nests. At a 20 day cooldown, that is now already 5 and a half years of nesting them every single time their cooldown resets).
The only way desirable color combos and gem genes are going to be bred into various ancients is if enough people think it's worth the money to shell out for them, and given the added complication that every new ancient needs to be gened from scratch - since they can't just be breed changed from an existing, pre-gened dragon like a modern breed - I feel like it's obvious why someone might be discouraged from being told their carefully planned out and expensive pairs aren't worth anything more than fodder price (especially when said offspring are still being sold for far cheaper than it would cost to gene a dragon from start to finish).
...Mind you, I don't have a solution here either. Dragons are one of the most available resources in the game and will only decline in value, but I also can't fault people for being discouraged by just how diminishing those returns are on trying to gene and breed new things, especially where the ancients are concerned because of their wonky genes.
Considering various factors to make money, being efficient, etc. is a mindset other people have that I don't. I don't question why they think this way. I feel that society at large rewards this way of thinking too. But that doesn't mean my way of playing isn't valid. I leave the difficult stuff to daytime, and just enjoy sharing stuff in the game for cheap or free. Spending time to get a bunch of stuff, and then discounting/giving some of it away, is how I enjoy playing this game. I will never care about a game's economy ever, because that is just not fun to me.
"The only way desirable color combos and gem genes are going to be bred into various ancients is if enough people think it's worth the money to shell out for them," this is not true. Any money I have left over from in-flight gift giving shenanigans, I scry random ancients that I think are pretty and buy genes for them. I have bought many Aether that are close to what I'm looking for, but I also breed change and gene from scratch. The variation in playstyles is not nearly that limited.
Considering various factors to make money, being efficient, etc. is a mindset other people have that I don't. I don't question why they think this way. I feel that society at large rewards this way of thinking too. But that doesn't mean my way of playing isn't valid. I leave the difficult stuff to daytime, and just enjoy sharing stuff in the game for cheap or free. Spending time to get a bunch of stuff, and then discounting/giving some of it away, is how I enjoy playing this game. I will never care about a game's economy ever, because that is just not fun to me.
"The only way desirable color combos and gem genes are going to be bred into various ancients is if enough people think it's worth the money to shell out for them," this is not true. Any money I have left over from in-flight gift giving shenanigans, I scry random ancients that I think are pretty and buy genes for them. I have bought many Aether that are close to what I'm looking for, but I also breed change and gene from scratch. The variation in playstyles is not nearly that limited.
@
Ador So you do indeed think it's worth the money to buy genes for your dragons, great. I'm well aware that people breed and gene things for all kinds of individual reasons and very specifically didn't say that profit was the only motivating factor there.
That's not my motivating factor either, as I also mentioned - but that doesn't mean I can't see why other people might be discouraged by the math as it stands, because different people have different goals and playstyles indeed.
@
Ador So you do indeed think it's worth the money to buy genes for your dragons, great. I'm well aware that people breed and gene things for all kinds of individual reasons and very specifically didn't say that profit was the only motivating factor there.
That's not my motivating factor either, as I also mentioned - but that doesn't mean I can't see why other people might be discouraged by the math as it stands, because different people have different goals and playstyles indeed.
Tbh it's saddening to see a thread like this at all. As many others before me have explained much better than I could, the beauty of Flight Rising is that you can play and engage with it in whatever way makes you happy. There's nothing wrong with seeking a profit out of your endeavors, but casual players aren't obligated to change their play style to benefit others'. This goes both ways, as it has for many years.
It was this kind of thinking that made the introduction of eye vials such a soured event despite its overwhelming benefits to the player base. It's great to have a thriving in-game economy, but a good economy is nothing without an enjoyable gaming site behind it.
Tbh it's saddening to see a thread like this at all. As many others before me have explained much better than I could, the beauty of Flight Rising is that you can play and engage with it in whatever way makes you happy. There's nothing wrong with seeking a profit out of your endeavors, but casual players aren't obligated to change their play style to benefit others'. This goes both ways, as it has for many years.
It was this kind of thinking that made the introduction of eye vials such a soured event despite its overwhelming benefits to the player base. It's great to have a thriving in-game economy, but a good economy is nothing without an enjoyable gaming site behind it.
[b]Not as part of the discussion but more as a tip[/b]
[u]I do breeding pairs too, all fully gened by myself[/u] so I kinda understand what you mean, you spent a lot hopping to get your money back + a source of income
I have the following pairs:
[url=https://www1.flightrising.com/lair/455366/1514972?name=&type=undefined][img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/801167020083118081/1189310397497475173/image.png?ex=659db29f&is=658b3d9f&hm=5d56a9da61c14a04de9ff5812e2fd9decbd29cc14946a83bf218af3ab3326edc&.png[/img][/url]
Some of them already are giving me profits, other not, especially my favorites, the Harlequin/Jester ones.
So my tip is, [b]always make pairs that you love!![/b] Yes, that´s the key, I know it might seem that you will never get a profit because how to prices are right now, but believe me, eventually there will be a profit , you just need to wait <3
And what makes the wait easier? Having dragons that you really like how they look, dragons that you want to stare at them forever, that way, you will be happy with your babies and in a blink you will have some dragon cash :33
That happened with my Sandsurge pair, they were 6000 gems but after a while I recovered it, and also they became somekind of cult because now their babies are everywhere XD
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/801167020083118081/1189311605046005760/image.png?ex=659db3be&is=658b3ebe&hm=c2a78bb166404b51c46cab0f1a27e0f4304c4ef7c3fa9b8b31bbdcc0122de4f8&.png[/img]
And small reminder, every breeding pairs becomes a fodder pair eventually, but even so, they will give small profit!!
Not as part of the discussion but more as a tip
I do breeding pairs too, all fully gened by myself so I kinda understand what you mean, you spent a lot hopping to get your money back + a source of income
I have the following pairs:
Some of them already are giving me profits, other not, especially my favorites, the Harlequin/Jester ones.
So my tip is,
always make pairs that you love!! Yes, that´s the key, I know it might seem that you will never get a profit because how to prices are right now, but believe me, eventually there will be a profit , you just need to wait <3
And what makes the wait easier? Having dragons that you really like how they look, dragons that you want to stare at them forever, that way, you will be happy with your babies and in a blink you will have some dragon cash :33
That happened with my Sandsurge pair, they were 6000 gems but after a while I recovered it, and also they became somekind of cult because now their babies are everywhere XD
And small reminder, every breeding pairs becomes a fodder pair eventually, but even so, they will give small profit!!
[quote name="Meliger" date="2023-12-26 08:17:55" ]
I don't consider those who breed fodder dragons (3-6k priced) to be breeders, sorry. Their business is alive precisely because there are dominations.
[/quote]
wow, I was fully ready to consider myself "not a breeder" because I don't invest in specific breeding pairs/don't often have space to hatch nests, but this immediately made me turn on that and go, "Never mind, I AM a breeder."
My "business" of breeding dragons is to see what fun stuff comes out, and when it's NOT all that fun, some kindhearted exalter buys it from me and removes it from the game, because exalting is a necessary mechanic for the game's economy
[quote name="Meliger" date="2023-12-26 08:17:55" ]
But when my efforts and the efforts of other breeders to come up with pairs, to somehow find dragons (esp. with unusual color-combination)
(snip)
[/quote]
You want unusual color combinations, I think you have very many of these purported "non-breeders" to thank for that, people who will breed wide, ugly, "risky," often-fodder color ranges, as opposed to pairs that will always produce a narrow range of guaranteed pretty dragons
Meliger wrote on 2023-12-26 08:17:55:
I don't consider those who breed fodder dragons (3-6k priced) to be breeders, sorry. Their business is alive precisely because there are dominations.
wow, I was fully ready to consider myself "not a breeder" because I don't invest in specific breeding pairs/don't often have space to hatch nests, but this immediately made me turn on that and go, "Never mind, I AM a breeder."
My "business" of breeding dragons is to see what fun stuff comes out, and when it's NOT all that fun, some kindhearted exalter buys it from me and removes it from the game, because exalting is a necessary mechanic for the game's economy
Meliger wrote on 2023-12-26 08:17:55:
But when my efforts and the efforts of other breeders to come up with pairs, to somehow find dragons (esp. with unusual color-combination)
(snip)
You want unusual color combinations, I think you have very many of these purported "non-breeders" to thank for that, people who will breed wide, ugly, "risky," often-fodder color ranges, as opposed to pairs that will always produce a narrow range of guaranteed pretty dragons
There's no such thing as a "right" or "wrong" price, only what people are willing to list for and what other people are willing to buy.
I gened up a pair of sandsurges on release day. They have not and will never make back their cost. (I price the hatchlings at 50g, but the last few clutches have not sold and I've ended up foddering them. I don't consider that "making back" the cost of geneing, because if I didn't nest them I could be nesting other couples instead that cost me nothing to gene.)
However, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the market! I'm just overpricing and/or under-advertising. Obviously I would like to make a profit on them, but there are just too many neat hatchlings born every day for them all to find homes, let alone at above fodder price. I knew that going in and it didn't deter me from geneing them up - I wanted candy-colored cyborgs and I got them.
[url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/44935632][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/449357/44935632.png[/img][/url][url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/87266132][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/872662/87266132.png[/img][/url]
There's no such thing as a "right" or "wrong" price, only what people are willing to list for and what other people are willing to buy.
I gened up a pair of sandsurges on release day. They have not and will never make back their cost. (I price the hatchlings at 50g, but the last few clutches have not sold and I've ended up foddering them. I don't consider that "making back" the cost of geneing, because if I didn't nest them I could be nesting other couples instead that cost me nothing to gene.)
However, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the market! I'm just overpricing and/or under-advertising. Obviously I would like to make a profit on them, but there are just too many neat hatchlings born every day for them all to find homes, let alone at above fodder price. I knew that going in and it didn't deter me from geneing them up - I wanted candy-colored cyborgs and I got them.
@Bashett
Oh, I see you have an auraboa xxx orchid. Are you not afraid not to sell for 350 ?? Now xxy orchid is at auction for 50 g. The ancient cd breeds have only 20 days, if they do not have time to sell, the dragons accumulate and in this case either wait until they sell and do not breed a pair, or lower the price.
@Achaius
I have a lot of pairs of sandsurges. For example, this pair cost me a little more than 4000 g, it barely paid off, but hutchlings are still bought for 150 g
[url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/67164141][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/671642/67164141.png[/img][/url] [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/87249672][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/872497/87249672.png[/img][/url]
But that pair cost about 2500 g, paid off and brought an income of about 4000 g, but now there are a lot of similar dragons and there is no point in blinking anymore.
[url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/87058663][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/870587/87058663.png[/img][/url] [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/87552171][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/875522/87552171.png[/img][/url]
@
Bashett
Oh, I see you have an auraboa xxx orchid. Are you not afraid not to sell for 350 ?? Now xxy orchid is at auction for 50 g. The ancient cd breeds have only 20 days, if they do not have time to sell, the dragons accumulate and in this case either wait until they sell and do not breed a pair, or lower the price.
@
Achaius
I have a lot of pairs of sandsurges. For example, this pair cost me a little more than 4000 g, it barely paid off, but hutchlings are still bought for 150 g
But that pair cost about 2500 g, paid off and brought an income of about 4000 g, but now there are a lot of similar dragons and there is no point in blinking anymore.
