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TOPIC | Let's talk about the world map...
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Sorry everyone I had to take a few days due to illness but I'm back and I will do my best to respond to everyone's contributions! If I didn't respond to something I may have forgotten so don't be afraid to ask me again! @Cards Thank you for doing that!! It definitely helps with visibility since it's a bit difficult to make out the lines of the continents because the colors are so faded and the lines get in the way. @DoubleO I see what you mean, thanks for clarifying! And it sure [i]would[/i] be nice to know the exact locations of things, but I can't imagine any kind of clarification anytime soon lol. I can still dream though. I haven't used blender but I have used Google Earth and more recently [url=https://www.maptoglobe.com/]maptoglobe[/url] which have worked just fine for me so far. @Natron BEAUTIFUL! I actually came across your [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/cc/2982477]Science of Sornieth[/url] thread a while ago on my quest to collect information and was inspired that other people think about these things too! The main reason I was so surprised to learn that Dragonhome is canonically around the north pole was because I'd always imagined it to be somewhere near the horse latitudes since that's where deserts typically are (I'm a geek for deserts). With the lush tropical forests in the far north I also looked into the hottest periods in earth's history when the poles were warm enough to host temperate rainforests... which honestly makes me more inclined to imagine the canonical locations of Dragonhome and the Viridian Labyrinth, because midnight sun and polar nights with auroras would be so cool in those domains. (As a side note, I love what you've done with the ocean currents and I'm envious because I've been working on this sort of thing for another fictional world, but I can't seem to get the currents right so kudos to you!) Oh and you updated it, even better!! I'm seriously amazed at the detail you put into this map! I'll have to check out your entire lore thread sometime when I have the chance because from what I've seen so far it's exactly the ecological stuff I love to think about. @Acetheaxolotl I'm on board with the idea that "Carl" is creating a map of the ancient world! It would certainly be in keeping with the archaeological theme Arlo has brought about. I added this theory to the list of theories I'm collecting in the main thread if that's okay with you. Regarding another continent, as far as I know there hasn't been any confirmation about whether other non-elemental lands exist or not, but there is one interesting thing I noticed and I don't know what to make of it. [quote=Beacon of the Radiant Eye] A crumbled, but welcoming tower that resides on the eastern seaboard. From this cliff, [b]the Lightweaver watches and waits for any dragon that may be making [i]a trip across the sea[/i][/b]. It is an important vantage point; she can survey the golden rolling hills speckled with ruins and redwoods, and see everywhere the light touches. [/quote] I've never heard anyone else talk about this (so if you know of anything, lmk). A trip across the sea? From where? Other lands outside of the elemental continent? Or does the continent just wrap around the planet so that the isles between the Arcane and Ice domains are within flying distance of the eastern coast of the Light domain? We know that [url=https://flightrising.com/main.php?p=wiki&article=29#:~:text=they%20are%20physically%20capable%20maintaining%20flight%20for%20weeks%20on%20end]Imperials are physically capable maintaining flight for weeks on end[/url], so at the very least there is a landmass of some sort within several week's flight of the eastern cliffs of the Sunbeam Ruins. I personally would love to see an extension of the lore where dragons can explore unknown lands around the planet outside of deity influence, but it does appear as though the continent takes up a large portion of the planet so I don't know how much room there is for other landmasses. A bit of math now since it's topical: we know that Sornieth's radius is roughly one and a half times the radius of the earth ([url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/ann/1242993/1#post_1242993:~:text=roughly%20one%20and%20a%20half%20times%20the%20radius]source[/url]), and the earth's equatorial radius is approximately 3,963 miles. That means Sornieth's equatorial radius is around 5944.5 miles, so [b]Sornieth's circumference would be roughly [u]37,350 miles[/u] at the equator[/b]. For reference, the earth's circumference is 24,901 miles at the equator. Unfortunately we don't know the flight speed of an Imperial so we can't calculate anything in that area (yet)! @wanderingworlds Bookworm must be hydrophobic his map makes the Sea of a Thousand Currents look like a puddle. And also did he take bites out of it? On a serious note, thanks for finding more maps! The more maps I see the more I'm inclined to believe all the canonical maps are largely wrong but we can find small truths in all of them.
Sorry everyone I had to take a few days due to illness but I'm back and I will do my best to respond to everyone's contributions! If I didn't respond to something I may have forgotten so don't be afraid to ask me again!

@Cards Thank you for doing that!! It definitely helps with visibility since it's a bit difficult to make out the lines of the continents because the colors are so faded and the lines get in the way.

@DoubleO I see what you mean, thanks for clarifying! And it sure would be nice to know the exact locations of things, but I can't imagine any kind of clarification anytime soon lol. I can still dream though. I haven't used blender but I have used Google Earth and more recently maptoglobe which have worked just fine for me so far.

@Natron BEAUTIFUL! I actually came across your Science of Sornieth thread a while ago on my quest to collect information and was inspired that other people think about these things too! The main reason I was so surprised to learn that Dragonhome is canonically around the north pole was because I'd always imagined it to be somewhere near the horse latitudes since that's where deserts typically are (I'm a geek for deserts). With the lush tropical forests in the far north I also looked into the hottest periods in earth's history when the poles were warm enough to host temperate rainforests... which honestly makes me more inclined to imagine the canonical locations of Dragonhome and the Viridian Labyrinth, because midnight sun and polar nights with auroras would be so cool in those domains.

(As a side note, I love what you've done with the ocean currents and I'm envious because I've been working on this sort of thing for another fictional world, but I can't seem to get the currents right so kudos to you!)

Oh and you updated it, even better!! I'm seriously amazed at the detail you put into this map! I'll have to check out your entire lore thread sometime when I have the chance because from what I've seen so far it's exactly the ecological stuff I love to think about.

@Acetheaxolotl I'm on board with the idea that "Carl" is creating a map of the ancient world! It would certainly be in keeping with the archaeological theme Arlo has brought about. I added this theory to the list of theories I'm collecting in the main thread if that's okay with you.

Regarding another continent, as far as I know there hasn't been any confirmation about whether other non-elemental lands exist or not, but there is one interesting thing I noticed and I don't know what to make of it.
Beacon of the Radiant Eye wrote:
A crumbled, but welcoming tower that resides on the eastern seaboard. From this cliff, the Lightweaver watches and waits for any dragon that may be making a trip across the sea. It is an important vantage point; she can survey the golden rolling hills speckled with ruins and redwoods, and see everywhere the light touches.
I've never heard anyone else talk about this (so if you know of anything, lmk). A trip across the sea? From where? Other lands outside of the elemental continent? Or does the continent just wrap around the planet so that the isles between the Arcane and Ice domains are within flying distance of the eastern coast of the Light domain? We know that Imperials are physically capable maintaining flight for weeks on end, so at the very least there is a landmass of some sort within several week's flight of the eastern cliffs of the Sunbeam Ruins. I personally would love to see an extension of the lore where dragons can explore unknown lands around the planet outside of deity influence, but it does appear as though the continent takes up a large portion of the planet so I don't know how much room there is for other landmasses.

A bit of math now since it's topical: we know that Sornieth's radius is roughly one and a half times the radius of the earth (source), and the earth's equatorial radius is approximately 3,963 miles. That means Sornieth's equatorial radius is around 5944.5 miles, so Sornieth's circumference would be roughly 37,350 miles at the equator. For reference, the earth's circumference is 24,901 miles at the equator. Unfortunately we don't know the flight speed of an Imperial so we can't calculate anything in that area (yet)!

@wanderingworlds Bookworm must be hydrophobic his map makes the Sea of a Thousand Currents look like a puddle. And also did he take bites out of it? On a serious note, thanks for finding more maps! The more maps I see the more I'm inclined to believe all the canonical maps are largely wrong but we can find small truths in all of them.
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Elaine
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@dragononymous OMG YOU DID, you found my science thread!! Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!! I'm always happy to see science and worldbuilding threads, the discussions that come from it are always interesting. And yeah, when it comes to the currents, it took me a few days to put them in the right place, but then just simplified it again to prevent unnecessary errors. Basically, when it comes to currents, what you need to do is become one with the water. I know it sounds silly but bear with me: the currents exist due to the rotation of the planet, they're constantly churning because of the rotation. When you pull up a world map and look at the currents, when you think of the planet rotating from west to east, you can basically imagine the waters of the oceans being dragged across the eastern shores and pulled either downwards or upwards (depending on their position; northern or southern hemisphere), then flowing back up the western shores towards the equator and crossing the Pacific. Once again, a Flat Earth model could never do that [emoji=ridgeback tongue size=1] /lh Hope that helps! I like "feeling" the drag of the waters, it helps me visualise it much better. hhhnn drag the waters some mooooooore like never befOAAHR HAAARGH RAAARH
@dragononymous OMG YOU DID, you found my science thread!! Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!! I'm always happy to see science and worldbuilding threads, the discussions that come from it are always interesting.

And yeah, when it comes to the currents, it took me a few days to put them in the right place, but then just simplified it again to prevent unnecessary errors. Basically, when it comes to currents, what you need to do is become one with the water. I know it sounds silly but bear with me: the currents exist due to the rotation of the planet, they're constantly churning because of the rotation. When you pull up a world map and look at the currents, when you think of the planet rotating from west to east, you can basically imagine the waters of the oceans being dragged across the eastern shores and pulled either downwards or upwards (depending on their position; northern or southern hemisphere), then flowing back up the western shores towards the equator and crossing the Pacific. Once again, a Flat Earth model could never do that /lh

Hope that helps! I like "feeling" the drag of the waters, it helps me visualise it much better.

hhhnn drag the waters some mooooooore
like never befOAAHR
HAAARGH
RAAARH
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"PART TWO: Based on the above information, how large are each of the elemental regions?" Does anyone know how to do pixel calculations? Anyways i made a little size comparison in IbisPainytjust to see. Icefield is still the biggest. I dont think transparent images of all the flight territories exist [and if they do, thats a weirdky specific thing to produce] so i took a screenshot of the World Map and cut them out myself, removed most of the outer water, and stuck em together. As such, much like Carl's maps and globe, this shall be very inaccurate and janky. However i still hope it can provide at the very least an [i][b]E X T R E M E L Y[/b][/i] rough and janky approximation of the flight territory sizes. Side by side, abd many overlay pictures. [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807416810747461644/1073443717140205598/Untitled80_20230209194934.png[/img] [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807416810747461644/1073443717622546492/Untitled80_20230209201224.png[/img] [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807416810747461644/1073443718021001277/Untitled80_20230209201545.png[/img] [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807416810747461644/1073443718503354368/Screenshot_20230209_201216_ibisPaint_X.jpg[/img] [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807416810747461644/1073443718721454191/Screenshot_20230209_201624_ibisPaint_X.jpg[/img] Sorry if this countd as spam or something because of the images. Feel free to ping me to suggest improvements or ideas. This thread is super fun and i want it to keep going for as long as is possible!
"PART TWO: Based on the above information, how large are each of the elemental regions?"

Does anyone know how to do pixel calculations?

Anyways i made a little size comparison in IbisPainytjust to see. Icefield is still the biggest. I dont think transparent images of all the flight territories exist [and if they do, thats a weirdky specific thing to produce] so i took a screenshot of the World Map and cut them out myself, removed most of the outer water, and stuck em together. As such, much like Carl's maps and globe, this shall be very inaccurate and janky. However i still hope it can provide at the very least an E X T R E M E L Y rough and janky approximation of the flight territory sizes. Side by side, abd many overlay pictures.

Untitled80_20230209194934.png

Untitled80_20230209201224.png

Untitled80_20230209201545.png

Screenshot_20230209_201216_ibisPaint_X.jpg

Screenshot_20230209_201624_ibisPaint_X.jpg


Sorry if this countd as spam or something because of the images. Feel free to ping me to suggest improvements or ideas. This thread is super fun and i want it to keep going for as long as is possible!
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Lol whoops Earth is in the wrong spot in the overlay
Lol whoops Earth is in the wrong spot in the overlay
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@dragononymous if there is another contienrnt, its prolly magical like Sornieth, unless its a magical dead zone created from the war in the first age. That would be cool. Oh, or maybe a Shade Infested island, which becomes a new colisuem venue or something! Maybe Tidelord hasnt returned still be ause he's trapped there, and theres gonna br a sitewide event to save him!

Edit:fixed spelling
@dragononymous if there is another contienrnt, its prolly magical like Sornieth, unless its a magical dead zone created from the war in the first age. That would be cool. Oh, or maybe a Shade Infested island, which becomes a new colisuem venue or something! Maybe Tidelord hasnt returned still be ause he's trapped there, and theres gonna br a sitewide event to save him!

Edit:fixed spelling
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@Natron Oh my goodness, I think I've had a breakthrough. [u]If[/u] we assume that the entire continent is in the Southern Hemisphere, and if we allow that Dragonhome's dry climate simply doesn't jive with being at the same latitude as the Viridian Labyrinth's wet one (at least not without a huge rainshadow effect that would require a mountain range where there is none), the clear answer seems to be: The up-right-down-left directionality of the World Map does not line up with the actual N-E-S-W compass of Sornieth. When you imagine that the World Map is in fact on a tilt, the whole thing looks more like this: [img]https://i.postimg.cc/Pq33Xq7V/Sornieth.jpg[/img] [LIST] [*]At 0°, on the Equator, we have the Viridian Labyrinth, wet and warm. [*]At 30°, the desert latitudes, there's an intersection of Dragonhome, the upper Crystalspine Reaches, the Wandering Contagion, the Tangled Wood, the Sunbeam Ruins, the Sea of a Thousand Currents, and the Shifting Expanse. All of these could be read as relatively dry ecosystems EXCEPT for the Tangled Wood. [*]At 60°, the temperate latitudes, there is most of the Crystalspine Reaches, the Windswept Plateau, and the Ashfall Waste. [*]Below this point there is only the Southern Icefield, which stretches from the eternally snowy south to a more boreal-like climate in the north. [/LIST] This model works especially well if you imagine that the overall climate of Sornieth is colder and drier than Earth's, narrowing the tropical zone, widening the desert zone, and pushing the ice northward. Outstanding Problems: The Pillar is no longer at the northernmost part of Sornieth. The Tangled Wood is still too wet and lush, and the model works better if you assume a mountain range between Earth and Nature, and between Plague and Shadow, to cast a rainshadow to the west. However, overall I think this model is improved, climate-accuracy wise, from the image we see on the World Map. Thoughts?
@Natron

Oh my goodness, I think I've had a breakthrough.

If we assume that the entire continent is in the Southern Hemisphere, and if we allow that Dragonhome's dry climate simply doesn't jive with being at the same latitude as the Viridian Labyrinth's wet one (at least not without a huge rainshadow effect that would require a mountain range where there is none), the clear answer seems to be:

The up-right-down-left directionality of the World Map does not line up with the actual N-E-S-W compass of Sornieth.

When you imagine that the World Map is in fact on a tilt, the whole thing looks more like this:

Sornieth.jpg
  • At 0°, on the Equator, we have the Viridian Labyrinth, wet and warm.
  • At 30°, the desert latitudes, there's an intersection of Dragonhome, the upper Crystalspine Reaches, the Wandering Contagion, the Tangled Wood, the Sunbeam Ruins, the Sea of a Thousand Currents, and the Shifting Expanse. All of these could be read as relatively dry ecosystems EXCEPT for the Tangled Wood.
  • At 60°, the temperate latitudes, there is most of the Crystalspine Reaches, the Windswept Plateau, and the Ashfall Waste.
  • Below this point there is only the Southern Icefield, which stretches from the eternally snowy south to a more boreal-like climate in the north.

This model works especially well if you imagine that the overall climate of Sornieth is colder and drier than Earth's, narrowing the tropical zone, widening the desert zone, and pushing the ice northward.

Outstanding Problems: The Pillar is no longer at the northernmost part of Sornieth. The Tangled Wood is still too wet and lush, and the model works better if you assume a mountain range between Earth and Nature, and between Plague and Shadow, to cast a rainshadow to the west.

However, overall I think this model is improved, climate-accuracy wise, from the image we see on the World Map. Thoughts?
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@shadowwas YESSSSSSS okay so this is something I did years ago, or something very similar, lemme dig it up... [img]https://i.imgur.com/Eix12fl.png[/img] Again, I positioned the Shifting Expanse closer to the equator because I'm a heat freak and I want to catch fire but that's besides the point. The only issue is that this makes the territories much smaller since they only exist in the southern hemisphere, but ily for this, this is wondrous, excellent job. The tilt solves so many problems
@shadowwas YESSSSSSS okay so this is something I did years ago, or something very similar, lemme dig it up...

Eix12fl.png

Again, I positioned the Shifting Expanse closer to the equator because I'm a heat freak and I want to catch fire but that's besides the point. The only issue is that this makes the territories much smaller since they only exist in the southern hemisphere, but ily for this, this is wondrous, excellent job. The tilt solves so many problems
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@ShadowWas

Theres the foxfire brambke which seperates Plague and Shadow, right? Maybe that thing is so fricking huge that it acts as a weird mountain pass, causing a rainshadow
@ShadowWas

Theres the foxfire brambke which seperates Plague and Shadow, right? Maybe that thing is so fricking huge that it acts as a weird mountain pass, causing a rainshadow
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I love this thread! It really is cartographers unite. Each time I come back someone has added a new idea or a new map.
I love this thread! It really is cartographers unite. Each time I come back someone has added a new idea or a new map.
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[quote name="Alize" date="2023-02-11 09:35:06" ] I love this thread! It really is cartographers unite. Each time I come back someone has added a new idea or a new map. [/quote] It truly is awesome. Reminds me of when basically the ENTIRE Shadow Of The Colossus fandom came together to look for the 17th Colossus and found out a bunch of new things about the map. Maybe if we solve the secret of Sornieth's map, Tidepapa will return!
Alize wrote on 2023-02-11 09:35:06:
I love this thread! It really is cartographers unite. Each time I come back someone has added a new idea or a new map.
It truly is awesome. Reminds me of when basically the ENTIRE Shadow Of The Colossus fandom came together to look for the 17th Colossus and found out a bunch of new things about the map. Maybe if we solve the secret of Sornieth's map, Tidepapa will return!
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