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Ideally, I'd like to see us all put together a new readslist today, with as much "why you feel that way" in the reads as everyone can manage?

[quote name="@Bearclaws" date=2017-05-13 20:58:39] GENERAL ANSWER ABOUT ELAN Okay, so, my mind tends to jump to conclusions quick. I usually try to base reads and speculations off of logic. And to do that, I try to get what the mafia is thinking. However, my usual meta has been kind of thrown off as of late, as I haven't been in many games and the games I do join I'm usually dragged along because of inactivity for increased hours at work on top of being a senior in highschool. (Also… time zones seem so off from everyone?? Ahh!) Anywho, My main thought process is; if I was in this situation, what would I do? The case with sussing elan was an overall curiosity that was then fueled by the sudden intensity of the game at the time of the reveal. I was angry because it put people at risk and my immediate thought was that they are mafia, this must be why they revealed! I kind of sheeped, in a way? Not really but?, In thinking that was just that odd and no other idea would be logical enough to defend it.. So I felt like I had to comment about it, and try to clarify why they might've done it. But I began to look a little more into the Hydra itself and I noticed it seemed like both heads weren't talking to each other. If both heads weren't talking to each other... Would they really be an effective mafia member? Also. I believe Elan might've known what they were doing was gonna give suspicion onto them. Like you said, they watched their highest town lead. That's odd. Really odd. [/quote] Clarifying: EM actually addressed that--Wintry wasn't their highest townread until [I]after[/I] they tracked him. Guessing you missed that part? [Quote] But then I realized why they would probably watch them. Could it have been because they wanted to make sure someone would be able to clarify that they're a tracker? They were under a lot of suspicion, which arguably was granted. But aside the suspicion, they might have thought that Wintry was also a good call because maybe they wouldn’t go anywhere. They wouldn't leave, they wouldn't have to if they were a vanilla townie... They would stay at home, and they could trust them to give an honest response. [/quote] Why would you assume vanilla meant townie, there, tho? Mafia can be just as vanilla? I don't see how this line of thought would help confirm anything. [Quote] If I was gonna put my life in someone's hands in a game of mafia. I would go for my highest town read. Now I usually hate tacking my personal meta and thought process to someone. Because I'm not Gwen or Ran, obviously. But I wanted them to stay around because I wanted to believe they were town. So I voted to tie the votes…I thought they might be a useful person to have, if they could only just be without their biases and talk more between their heads... That's why I voted for Oricole and why I believe, or more like wanted to believe, Elan was town. 1 out 2 posts [/quote] Still thinking about this, because it sounds like kind of a stretch, reasoning wise? But they both flipped town, so it is kinda a townie thing to agonize over it a bit, granted. [quote name="Bearclaws" date=2017-05-13 20:59:32] WHY STORMDREAMER? This one is actually kind of..blah. I don’t have a good defense to this. I just get a bad vibe from them and I can’t exactly explain why. I know they’re trying and I want to see them try, because I’ve played with them before and they’re a good player. But… I dunno, I feel like somethings off. So if there was ever a time I would kind of allow myself to be strung along, it’d be here. I’m more or less wanting them to talk more, and if I was to place a vote too...it would be tentative and be more out of trying to pressure them. Aside from that, I need to read the thread from where I last left off, I kind of neglected looking around here because I kind of got nervous of what I would see. Something’s off for me this game, and I’m not feeling 100%. [/quote] I would love to hear more thoughts on Stormdreamer from you, if you can identify what seems off? [Quote] LIMELIGHT AND APOLOGIZING I get super super anxious when I make a mistake. This is always kind of a huge issue with me and why I don't post a lot. I hate being wrong. So top this with my aforementioned panic attack, I started to freak out. I thought I was offending lime and I just felt the need to apologize profusely. ;n;’ [/quote] Fair enough, tho the wording of your apology still kinda pings me. Think you could come up with an opinion on Limelight? [Quote] WHY IS _____ TOWN Tsaiah; you're really strong in talking. Town needs that. I feel like everything you're doing and each question you ask is (even if it's a bit aggressive/sassy at times) good for clearing up. I just hate being under suspicion. LOL [/quote] xD; sorry if I sounded mean--the pressure is intentional, tho. [Quote] Wintry; because they were basically outted. It was also a help that they visited tsaiah and tsaiah is still alive and kicking. [/Quote] I mean, they could have visited me with anything non-killing, and still have been either alignment, tho? The thing you can confirm with the visit is that they probably didn't make the maf kill (and maybe have an idea of their role), but not much else based solely on a visit. I do think they're town, but for other reasons...is that the only reason you think them town? [Quote] Otherwise. I feel rather neutral about everyone. I can see some feelings have changed overall in thread; and I'll update my readslist if anything changes for me after I analyze. :'3c I just want to get most of my defense out there. [/quote] Looking forward to more reads from you!

All righty, before I sleep I'm gonna take my vote off of Limelight for now, not because I don't still think she's the best candidate for lynching next, but bc I don't wanna see the day's discussion get cut short by a hammer just yet.

@Limelight

Consider my vote still on you in spirit, until and unless you come in here with some good answers to all the unaddressed questions. And a readslist of all living players, too, please.


temporarily,

unvote Limelight

@Tsaiah [quote]You seem to be agreeing with both sides here, and very noticibly not sussing either one. You've obviously read up fairly thoroughly at this point, why the lack of any overt opinion, alignment wise? [/quote] I'm not sure whether something is AI or not. Just...questioning both sides because [s]I have no idea on what I'm doing[/s] I have doubts on both sides, and I'm not really sure whether those are just town arguments that I don't agree with, or an indication of being scum. [quote]> "This is probably an attempt to throw us off and do more speculation hence leaving less time to scumhunt, but... idk." Elaborate? Do you mean you think GS was killed to waste time speculating about it? [/quote] Yep, which was why I was dismissive towards further kill analysis. [quote]> "Has GS claimed/crumbed PR? Even if so though, mafia would have gone for the more vocal/townread players because they don't want to be lynched through town PoE? I don't think GS was killed due to maf aiming for PRs." Can you elaborate on why you don't think mafia would've killed GS for hunting PRs? Why do you feel that way? [/quote] I don't really remember my reasoning back there >.> I'll try and respond later if i can remember. [quote] > "In any case, might be better to focus on scumhunting instead. Let's hope this isn't mylo, but we have spend more time on discussing lynch targets so that we can have a good chance of hitting scum today." So why didn't you actually participate in your own suggestion? More thought process behind all this, please? Bc as it stands, it feels like you could be framing this in a way to tilt thoughts toward a specific end, that of mafia not hunting for PRs, then dismissing the idea of further speculation on the subject. This is even more notable for your complete lack of scumhunting afterwards. I'm also kind of surprised that for someone so seemingly absent from the game, and "still not caught up", that you would have such a specific idea of the mafia motivation behind the kill? [/quote] I...can't scumhunt. >.> I've tried picking up vibes from posts, but I've drawn a blank every single time while other people can pick up on the tone of posts and that. I guess... the only emotion that I can feel while reading is...admiration? You guys are so good at this, and your talking styles are unique and cool. The amount of speculation and lack of actual scumhunting is because I'm trying to help in a way that I am capable of, however trashy my speculations could be. I haven't read fully through the thread--my speculation was based off mostly on what other people thought about GS (aka having sussed them), along with "why would I have done that as scum?". I've seen numerous times where scum kills were landing on players which wouldn't have been too much of a threat to scum (or even, possible mislynch targets) to throw off town, making me think that mafia could have thought along similar lines for this kill. [quote] You addressed the last line already, but now it's the earlier part of the post i'm curious about--the first line is reasonable, but the second line...what do [i]you[/I] think we should do about inactive, potential scum? [/quote] Inactive, potential scum should be looked at and put under pressure to get them talking more, and even lynched if they continue to be so. However, the situation back then was mylo--we cannot afford a mislynch. I understand that we do not have any vigs left and lynching would be the only way of getting rid of inactive scum, but during mylo? It's too risky imo... [quote] Noting your earlier answer to what you find suspicious included inactivity and lurking. So is it suspicious, in your opinion, or not? Why the defense, if that's something you usually find sus? [/quote] While I know that inactivity is a tactic for scum to not be sniffed out, meaning that inactives are worth looking at. However, there are multiple reasons for being inactive, and FM might just...genuinely be busy. I'd squint at inactives, but I doubt it is enough reason to lynch someone, especially in what could possibly be mylo. [quote]Your opinions, when you have them, lack opinion on actual alignment, which is one of my main issues with you. I'd like to see a readslist, of all living players. [/quote] Fair enough--I understand your concern about by lack of reads. The problem is... I'm not that confident with my ability to scumhunt. I don't know whether some statements are AI or not, I can't pick up vibes from other people, and generally just...suck. I know I have to try, but I just haven't managed to do so yet. >.> I know I am being a bad player, and I'm genuinely sorry for being one, but I am trying and... >.>

@StormDreamer [quote]Why is Wintry still alive? Rang outed them as a power role, they are highly townread by people, and if they really have the roleblocker/doctor slot they shouldn't be scared of them being protected. Both wintry and Ori have been vocal, contributive and townread by players. Why would mafia pick a vanilla townie to kill over a town power role?[/quote] that hinges on the RBer/doctor slot having been taken by mafia, which depends on the reasoning that a N1 kill must have been roleblocked. Inquisition was 1-shot PGO, yeah, but it's possible that they didn't want to alert N1 because of it being 1-shot. it's possible that they thought mafia would go for somebody low on the draft order to avoid the possibility of PGO, or that they just thought that mafia wouldn't go for them since they seemed to be a little bit busy D1. it's possible that mafia has the RB/doc slot, but it's also possible they don't. doc would be more likely to protect PR than vanilla, which Oricole outed themselves as from D1. [quote]However, the situation back then was mylo--we cannot afford a mislynch.[/quote] what does this make you think of for lynch targets today? @Tsaiah ngl, i'm glad to see the unvote--i was a little worried about a very quick hammer to stop discussion from happening. atm i'm still the biggest fan of a Lime lynch too.

hrrrr that's a lot of long posts. ------ ----- Tsaiah, you've already done a small iso on @Stormdreamer, but here's my take: [quote name="StormDreamer" date=2017-05-11 16:34:48] I see your logic behind the FM vote--however, this is mylo and we HAVE to lynch scum today, aaand... inactive lynching prolly isn't ideal in cases where we cannot mislynch. Being inactive could have a lot of reasons aaaand in many cases (such as sudden irl stoof happening), it is not really AI? [/quote] I went and did a quick search of your opinions on inactive lynches in other games, and you seemed to prefer them when there were no other options. iirc, however, there weren't any suss wagons at the time and you didn't bring up any suspects. not sure if you did the same thing other games, but still. [quote name="StormDreamer" date=2017-05-12 02:05:24] so I said that in case people thought I was trying to defend a scumbuddy. This probably sounds like a scum mindset but I've kind of developed the "don't look scummy" mindset both as town as scum because my posts have a tendency to ping people the wrong way.[/quote] Sorta sounds like you're trying to set up a safety net in case someone sussed you for "protecting" FM. Given, people do tend to think you're scummy no matter what alignment you play, but "So i said that in case people thought..." pings me a little. [quote name="StormDreamer" date=2017-05-12 02:05:24] I can't scumhunt for the sake of my life, and my mind has drawn a blank on numerous occasions in this game, which is usually what happens when I play in a game with a lot of vets >.>[/quote] This seems to come up a lot... but you've played more games than I can count (literally. i'm too laze to count more than 15 games). Surely you've picked up something? There's also a lot of "my brain is dead" (and im going to be a hypocrite right now) but that sounds like another safety net in case people suss your opinions. Also, I cant remember specifically which posts but Storm seems pretty jumpy and indecisive to me, moreso than I remember from other games. ------ ------ Ah, should I take my vote off limelight? I don't want to be out again when the votes go in and the day ends.

@Raiccoon

Your vote shouldn't hurt anything, i don't think? Think there are enough of us aware of and trying not to accidentally hammer at this point to be safe.



@Stormdreamer

I'm not even asking you to like full-on scumhunt, tho. I just want some darn opinion on people, even if it's tentative.

You stepped through a minefield of potential scum/lynch candidates, in order to sus on Wintry for being alive. Like literally, you're avoiding touching anyone else with your opinion, at all costs...?

Echoing blanket--who do you like most for lynch targets now? Why?

And there are only like 8 of us left--while i'd like to get a full readslist from you, if you can't manage that, can you at least give your opinion on a few people? I really want your opinion on Limelight and Bearclaws, at the least.

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