remove pursuit: Breed a pair of dragons | Suggestions

[quote name="JLinaria" date="2023-06-24 09:02:53" ] Alternatively (and I think others have already suggested something like this) an underlying condition system could maybe work for all issues mentioned in this thread. [LIST] [*]Have no empty nests? No daily breeding pursuit [*]Brewing a recipe with a long timer? No daily Baldwin pursuit [*]Health condition? No Fairgrounds or Coliseum pursuits, none. [/LIST] The last one I imagine could be tied to an account setting, we have a toggle for April Fools so having one that people with prohibitive health conditions can use to, at least as a start, avoid getting pursuits for those activities doesn't seem like an unreasonable idea. [/quote] So where/when exactly does it pull this information? Because i will never ever see any Baldwin and nesting grounds pursuits if it pulls the data at rollover. I have rolling nests, i hatch and nest a nest everyday. So if it checks if i have a full nest i always do. I would be negatively impacted if such a change was made. Same with baldwin. I brew things continuously, often 6-10 hr things over night (rollover is 2am for me) so if it does a check I will quite often be brewing something when it checks. Again I will be negatively impacted. The longer this goes on the more I'm getting swayed to not making any changes. Reroll once if it means this thread gets put to rest. If you are someone who wants those 100% complete achievement results you are going to have to work for it. Change playstyle and everything. Is that not the [i]point[/i] of achievements? Especially since, again, you do not need to complete every daily pursuit to get rewards. It's not like having to keep dragons fed where you actively lose out on site functions if you don't do it.

Gryphire

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June 24, 2023 10:14:32

JLinaria wrote on 2023-06-24 09:02:53:

Alternatively (and I think others have already suggested something like this) an underlying condition system could maybe work for all issues mentioned in this thread.

Have no empty nests? No daily breeding pursuit
Brewing a recipe with a long timer? No daily Baldwin pursuit
Health condition? No Fairgrounds or Coliseum pursuits, none.

The last one I imagine could be tied to an account setting, we have a toggle for April Fools so having one that people with prohibitive health conditions can use to, at least as a start, avoid getting pursuits for those activities doesn't seem like an unreasonable idea.

So where/when exactly does it pull this information? Because i will never ever see any Baldwin and nesting grounds pursuits if it pulls the data at rollover. I have rolling nests, i hatch and nest a nest everyday. So if it checks if i have a full nest i always do. I would be negatively impacted if such a change was made. Same with baldwin. I brew things continuously, often 6-10 hr things over night (rollover is 2am for me) so if it does a check I will quite often be brewing something when it checks. Again I will be negatively impacted.

The longer this goes on the more I'm getting swayed to not making any changes. Reroll once if it means this thread gets put to rest. If you are someone who wants those 100% complete achievement results you are going to have to work for it. Change playstyle and everything. Is that not the point of achievements?

Especially since, again, you do not need to complete every daily pursuit to get rewards. It's not like having to keep dragons fed where you actively lose out on site functions if you don't do it.

Support… I moved to “rolling” nests to avoid being locked out of this pursuit, but it’s seems like a bit of an oversight to include it in the daily options when users could very easily be locked out of it (for multiple days) through normal gameplay.

Cirrostratus

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June 24, 2023 11:15:23

Support… I moved to “rolling” nests to avoid being locked out of this pursuit, but it’s seems like a bit of an oversight to include it in the daily options when users could very easily be locked out of it (for multiple days) through normal gameplay.

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CIRROSTRATUS

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Full support, i don't get others ideas here, it shouldn't be a daily pursuit because i personally ideally set all my nests at the SAME TIME rather than have a constant flow,

and it'll literally make the pursuit un-doable if it's a daily, rather than a weekly one. Almost all of them are perfectly completeable unless you just don't want to do it, Ex: coli, fairgrounds. This one is literally impossible without buying a boon if you breed in batches.

As the user above me said, i moved to a rolling/flowing set for this exact reason, i like the diea of doing every pursuit and filling up my bar because it's cool! i'd hate to be stuck locked away from 100% completion for the month because i couldn't get 2 points one day :'3

As another said, we already have an incubation achievement that nudges use of the nesting grounds that can be done anytime and doesn't lock you out of nesting grounds if your nests are full.

DoodlePoodle

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June 24, 2023 12:10:13

Full support, i don't get others ideas here, it shouldn't be a daily pursuit because i personally ideally set all my nests at the SAME TIME rather than have a constant flow,

and it'll literally make the pursuit un-doable if it's a daily, rather than a weekly one. Almost all of them are perfectly completeable unless you just don't want to do it, Ex: coli, fairgrounds. This one is literally impossible without buying a boon if you breed in batches.

As the user above me said, i moved to a rolling/flowing set for this exact reason, i like the diea of doing every pursuit and filling up my bar because it's cool! i'd hate to be stuck locked away from 100% completion for the month because i couldn't get 2 points one day :'3

As another said, we already have an incubation achievement that nudges use of the nesting grounds that can be done anytime and doesn't lock you out of nesting grounds if your nests are full.

I've come to call you about your car's extended warranty

Last edited on Jun 24, 2023 12:15:22 by DoodlePoodle

[quote name="Lara8" date="2023-06-22 20:27:45" ] For a not-inconsequential subset of players, 'doing all of the things' is is a reward in and of itself. It's a tempting enough lure that, again, it's caused me to interact with the site in lots of ways I typically wouldn't, and spend extra time and treasure doing so. Being locked out of any given one removes that motivation. It doesn't make me stressed or depressed, but it makes me less interested in engaging with the feature, and it looks like I'm not the only one who feels that way. For example, if all of the pursuits are attainable, I'll do even the ones I might not have been planning to do on that day, such as finding something to buy from the treasure MP. If even one is straight-up impossible, I lose interest in whether I leave the others uncompleted too. And again, I think there's a very clear line between pursuits that are challenging and ones that can be impossible on any given day, due to actions prior to that day. So it would make sense to me to avoid including the latter, not to make the pursuits system easier, but to retain attainable completionism as an incentive. ~ (For Baldwin, perhaps the 'brew' and 'transmute' pursuits could be replaced by one that's simply 'visit Baldwin's page' (like the existing 'visit the world map'). Sure, people who don't use their cauldrons at all could then get a pass on having to brew something up, but I don't think that's too unforgivably generous. Or perhaps there could be a non-functional 'stir' button added - doesn't affect anything, but if you click it while you have a brew or transmutation in progress, you get the pursuit.) ~ I agree that re-rolling doesn't seem helpful. It does remove some of the challenge factor, and if the two potentially-impossible tasks remain, you could still end up with something you simply couldn't do. [/quote] [center]^ | |[/center] [color=555176] They said it better than me. It's one thing to be locked out due to an issue regarding a physical impairment or simply not wanting to do it, but literally being locked out without paying for something you did EARLIER IN THE WEEK because of how the gameplay is written is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, i would vouch for this game unprompted but while i wouldn't consider myself completionist i really don't like the idea of being unable to complete a pursuit because i'm locked out and get to miss out on a complete bar at the end of the month...

DoodlePoodle

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June 24, 2023 12:18:44

Lara8 wrote on 2023-06-22 20:27:45:

For a not-inconsequential subset of players, 'doing all of the things' is is a reward in and of itself. It's a tempting enough lure that, again, it's caused me to interact with the site in lots of ways I typically wouldn't, and spend extra time and treasure doing so. Being locked out of any given one removes that motivation. It doesn't make me stressed or depressed, but it makes me less interested in engaging with the feature, and it looks like I'm not the only one who feels that way.

For example, if all of the pursuits are attainable, I'll do even the ones I might not have been planning to do on that day, such as finding something to buy from the treasure MP.

If even one is straight-up impossible, I lose interest in whether I leave the others uncompleted too.

And again, I think there's a very clear line between pursuits that are challenging and ones that can be impossible on any given day, due to actions prior to that day. So it would make sense to me to avoid including the latter, not to make the pursuits system easier, but to retain attainable completionism as an incentive.

~

(For Baldwin, perhaps the 'brew' and 'transmute' pursuits could be replaced by one that's simply 'visit Baldwin's page' (like the existing 'visit the world map'). Sure, people who don't use their cauldrons at all could then get a pass on having to brew something up, but I don't think that's too unforgivably generous.

Or perhaps there could be a non-functional 'stir' button added - doesn't affect anything, but if you click it while you have a brew or transmutation in progress, you get the pursuit.)

~

I agree that re-rolling doesn't seem helpful. It does remove some of the challenge factor, and if the two potentially-impossible tasks remain, you could still end up with something you simply couldn't do.

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They said it better than me.
It's one thing to be locked out due to an issue regarding a physical impairment or simply not wanting to do it, but literally being locked out without paying for something you did EARLIER IN THE WEEK because of how the gameplay is written is ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, i would vouch for this game unprompted but while i wouldn't consider myself completionist i really don't like the idea of being unable to complete a pursuit because i'm locked out and get to miss out on a complete bar at the end of the month...

I've come to call you about your car's extended warranty

Last edited on Jun 24, 2023 12:21:50 by DoodlePoodle

[quote name="Gryphire" ] So where/when exactly does it pull this information? [/quote] When pursuits are decided, so at rollover. [quote name="Gryphire" ] So if it checks if i have a full nest i always do. [/quote] If you have a nest that is ready to hatch that would be considered an open nest for this condition, so you would be able to get the pursuit every day. [quote name="Gryphire" ] I will quite often be brewing something when it checks. [/quote] With a long timer? The recipe that has caused concern is the 96 hour Prismatic Token, that's several full days where you cannot use Baldwin. Assume we set the condition at 24 hours, if you had 23 hours left at rollover you could get the pursuit and only have 1 hour at the end of the day to complete it, which is not reasonable for many time zones. Maybe 12 hours would work but at the end of the day that's a number for the developers to decide if they were to implement this. [quote name="Gryphire" ] If you are someone who wants those 100% complete achievement results you are going to have to work for it. [/quote] Personally I just wanted to do all my pursuits for June for the novelty of it being a new system, the fact that this goal was put behind a 350 gem paywall annoyed me, and knowing that this particular pursuit will continue to be a 1/5 chance unless I change up my playstyle feels like poor design for something that is meant to be just a small bonus for engaging with a mechanic that I already use daily. Past the month of June I had no intentions of chasing full pursuit completion, but that doesn't mean I will be dismissive of the bad player experiences of those that do want to keep getting them all. [quote name="Gryphire" ] Change playstyle and everything. Is that not the point of achievements? [/quote] Achievements are finite, always available and completed forever once they're earned, pursuits are endless, timed and random, they are not the same. For people who want to keep their nests going AND do all their daily pursuits, they HAVE to arrange their nests so they hatch one every day. If there was an achievement for hatching a nest every day for 15 days, you do it once and it's done, but a daily pursuit should not force players to change their playstyle forever just to ensure that it is always completable. On a side note, not directed at anyone in particular. I don't understand why people opposed to this suggestion care so much if the pursuit was to be removed? If missing out on 25 treasure and 2 pursuit point is a non-issue, and people should not care, why is it then such a big problem for people to be missing out on completing it for free on the days where they would randomly have gotten it? Everyone would still get 5 daily pursuits so people would just do some other daily pursuit instead, and there would be no way to know which days one might've gotten this particular pursuit if it had not been removed. I understand the concern that if one pursuit gets removed it could set a precedent and people might suggest to have others removed as well, but no other pursuit holds the same kind of power over how people must engage with a game mechanic as important to the game as breeding, and there's clearly a good number of people who would be happy if they were able to keep playing the game the way they want to and still be able to do all their daily pursuits. It is an outlier, it is causing issues for players, and I think it should be addressed.

JLinaria

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June 24, 2023 16:10:36

Gryphire wrote:

So where/when exactly does it pull this information?

When pursuits are decided, so at rollover.

Gryphire wrote:

So if it checks if i have a full nest i always do.

If you have a nest that is ready to hatch that would be considered an open nest for this condition, so you would be able to get the pursuit every day.

Gryphire wrote:

I will quite often be brewing something when it checks.

With a long timer? The recipe that has caused concern is the 96 hour Prismatic Token, that's several full days where you cannot use Baldwin.
Assume we set the condition at 24 hours, if you had 23 hours left at rollover you could get the pursuit and only have 1 hour at the end of the day to complete it, which is not reasonable for many time zones. Maybe 12 hours would work but at the end of the day that's a number for the developers to decide if they were to implement this.

Gryphire wrote:

If you are someone who wants those 100% complete achievement results you are going to have to work for it.

Personally I just wanted to do all my pursuits for June for the novelty of it being a new system, the fact that this goal was put behind a 350 gem paywall annoyed me, and knowing that this particular pursuit will continue to be a 1/5 chance unless I change up my playstyle feels like poor design for something that is meant to be just a small bonus for engaging with a mechanic that I already use daily.
Past the month of June I had no intentions of chasing full pursuit completion, but that doesn't mean I will be dismissive of the bad player experiences of those that do want to keep getting them all.

Gryphire wrote:

Change playstyle and everything. Is that not the point of achievements?

Achievements are finite, always available and completed forever once they're earned, pursuits are endless, timed and random, they are not the same.
For people who want to keep their nests going AND do all their daily pursuits, they HAVE to arrange their nests so they hatch one every day. If there was an achievement for hatching a nest every day for 15 days, you do it once and it's done, but a daily pursuit should not force players to change their playstyle forever just to ensure that it is always completable.

On a side note, not directed at anyone in particular.
I don't understand why people opposed to this suggestion care so much if the pursuit was to be removed?
If missing out on 25 treasure and 2 pursuit point is a non-issue, and people should not care, why is it then such a big problem for people to be missing out on completing it for free on the days where they would randomly have gotten it?
Everyone would still get 5 daily pursuits so people would just do some other daily pursuit instead, and there would be no way to know which days one might've gotten this particular pursuit if it had not been removed.

I understand the concern that if one pursuit gets removed it could set a precedent and people might suggest to have others removed as well, but no other pursuit holds the same kind of power over how people must engage with a game mechanic as important to the game as breeding, and there's clearly a good number of people who would be happy if they were able to keep playing the game the way they want to and still be able to do all their daily pursuits.

It is an outlier, it is causing issues for players, and I think it should be addressed.

I've gotten "breed dragons" three days in a row now, and several times before that. I CAN'T, I don't have room to hatch nests, or have a bunch of fodder dragons sitting on unhatchable nests indefinitely. It's bad enough I have one nest going so I can complete "incubate nest" pursuits.
This is already getting frustrating and unpleasant

PersimmonBird

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June 25, 2023 10:52:55

I've gotten "breed dragons" three days in a row now, and several times before that. I CAN'T, I don't have room to hatch nests, or have a bunch of fodder dragons sitting on unhatchable nests indefinitely. It's bad enough I have one nest going so I can complete "incubate nest" pursuits.
This is already getting frustrating and unpleasant

Support for at least moving it to the "weekly" category!

I was a little surprised to see this one as a daily pursuit to begin with; I'd have expected "typical gameplay" to see it more at a weekly rate.

Furthermore, I'm very compelled by the point that several users have made, pointing out that it's actually possible to get yourself in a position where doing this pursuit is mechanically impossible, simply as a natural consequence of filling your nests on cooldown!

figura

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June 25, 2023 11:44:21

Support for at least moving it to the "weekly" category!

I was a little surprised to see this one as a daily pursuit to begin with; I'd have expected "typical gameplay" to see it more at a weekly rate.

Furthermore, I'm very compelled by the point that several users have made, pointing out that it's actually possible to get yourself in a position where doing this pursuit is mechanically impossible, simply as a natural consequence of filling your nests on cooldown!

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Hi! I'm in the situation described above! I've got 5 nests going that would need a boon to hatch today, and one of my daily pursuits is to breed a pair of dragons! Can this pursuit be changed now, please?

Naizaka

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June 27, 2023 00:40:01

Hi! I'm in the situation described above! I've got 5 nests going that would need a boon to hatch today, and one of my daily pursuits is to breed a pair of dragons! Can this pursuit be changed now, please?

LAMP?

Absolute support.

This happened to me a few days ago. It's very annoying to know that filling the rewards bar can be an impossible task unless players are willing to pay gems for nesting boons or stop nesting their dragons on their preferred schedule in the event that this pursuit pops up.
This needs to be removed from Daily. Moving it to Weekly or taking it away altogether are both viable solutions. Having an achievement that locks players out of multiple things at once (currency collection, pursuit points, income from sales, apparel and gene priorities, arranged breeding for dates and times, project schedules, etc.) isn't sustainable to anyone or fair to players.

FableTheWolf

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June 28, 2023 12:32:55

Absolute support.

This happened to me a few days ago. It's very annoying to know that filling the rewards bar can be an impossible task unless players are willing to pay gems for nesting boons or stop nesting their dragons on their preferred schedule in the event that this pursuit pops up.
This needs to be removed from Daily. Moving it to Weekly or taking it away altogether are both viable solutions. Having an achievement that locks players out of multiple things at once (currency collection, pursuit points, income from sales, apparel and gene priorities, arranged breeding for dates and times, project schedules, etc.) isn't sustainable to anyone or fair to players.

This is one of the few Pursuits that is consistently done through my dailies, so I don’t support removing it completely. Replacing it with incubating a nest would be fine, however, if that isn’t already in the daily rotation (and if it is, replacing it with “incubate 2 nests” or something. Just so that there’s the same chance as now to have a participate in the nesting grounds pursuit.)

Before

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June 28, 2023 20:26:21

This is one of the few Pursuits that is consistently done through my dailies, so I don’t support removing it completely. Replacing it with incubating a nest would be fine, however, if that isn’t already in the daily rotation (and if it is, replacing it with “incubate 2 nests” or something. Just so that there’s the same chance as now to have a participate in the nesting grounds pursuit.)