No support for purchase-at-will natural eye types as long as unnatural eye types can never come from breeding.
It is clear from how these are treated that they are intended to be mutually exclusive: some eye types come randomly from breeding and must be lucked into, others can be applied at will. The fact that natural eye types can be applied at all is because older dragons cannot have them naturally, and it's a compromise to allow them to have them.
If unnatural eyes become breedable for (even if only with a parent of that eye type), then I could support. Otherwise, it would be unfair that some must be applied, while others can be both applied AND bred for.
No support for purchase-at-will natural eye types as long as unnatural eye types can never come from breeding.
It is clear from how these are treated that they are intended to be mutually exclusive: some eye types come randomly from breeding and must be lucked into, others can be applied at will. The fact that natural eye types can be applied at all is because older dragons cannot have them naturally, and it's a compromise to allow them to have them.
If unnatural eyes become breedable for (even if only with a parent of that eye type), then I could support. Otherwise, it would be unfair that some must be applied, while others can be both applied AND bred for.
Eyes are different when it comes to breeding because none of them can be passed on. That's why we need to be able to apply them to dragons.
Eyes are different when it comes to breeding because none of them can be passed on. That's why we need to be able to apply them to dragons.
Pings are disabled.
If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
[quote name="gemajgall" date="2019-05-20 14:03:38" ]
Eyes are different when it comes to breeding because none of them can be passed on. That's why we need to be able to apply them to dragons.
[/quote]
Different from what? Genes/breeds? If so, yes they are different from those, because genes/breeds can be both applied and bred.
Ignoring limited-time gifts, eyes can be applied OR bred with the sole exception of Common, and Common is just maintaining the old status quo (one eye type per element that can be reliably bred for).
If some eye types can be applied AND bred, all of them should be.
gemajgall wrote on 2019-05-20 14:03:38:
Eyes are different when it comes to breeding because none of them can be passed on. That's why we need to be able to apply them to dragons.
Different from what? Genes/breeds? If so, yes they are different from those, because genes/breeds can be both applied and bred.
Ignoring limited-time gifts, eyes can be applied OR bred with the sole exception of Common, and Common is just maintaining the old status quo (one eye type per element that can be reliably bred for).
If some eye types can be applied AND bred, all of them should be.
[quote name="Before" date="2019-05-20 14:15:04" ]
If some eye types can be applied AND bred, all of them should be.
[/quote]
So all eye types should be breedable and all eye types should be buyable, is what you're saying?
If so - I agree.
Before wrote on 2019-05-20 14:15:04:
If some eye types can be applied AND bred, all of them should be.
So all eye types should be breedable and all eye types should be buyable, is what you're saying?
If so - I agree.
No support.
If for no other reason that the devs explained exactly how they were handling the eye situation (which they have had almost a year to discuss amongst themselves and listen to feedback from the community) less than an hour before the OP created this thread.
No support.
If for no other reason that the devs explained exactly how they were handling the eye situation (which they have had almost a year to discuss amongst themselves and listen to feedback from the community) less than an hour before the OP created this thread.
[quote name="nekosysteme" date="2019-05-20 11:28:40" ]
However for the old natural eye type (primal, multigaze and faceted) I think we could get something. Maybe have 2 vials of each given by Galore like they did with the Goat eyes? - tbh i thought the goat eye vials were a very good idea, keeps the eyes rare but still allows the players to get them!
[/quote]
My feeling exactly.
I understand how staff intended the eye-type to be incorporate of the lore, meaning it was meant to be affecting dragons that were born AFTER the Bounty of the elements. But they later decided to give old dragons a chance and hence the scattersight, which they also admit was executed poorly. They now decided that having limited number of clan-bound vials for everyone is a better middle ground, which I agree. That leaves only the older eye types out of the equation so it's only fair to give out some vials for facet, multi-gaze, and primal too. But whether they should keep all these vials open for trade and unretired? Not necessary imo.
edit:
Just to say please don't ping me. I will contribute to the discussion when I see fit. Thank you. :)
nekosysteme wrote on 2019-05-20 11:28:40:
However for the old natural eye type (primal, multigaze and faceted) I think we could get something. Maybe have 2 vials of each given by Galore like they did with the Goat eyes? - tbh i thought the goat eye vials were a very good idea, keeps the eyes rare but still allows the players to get them!
My feeling exactly.
I understand how staff intended the eye-type to be incorporate of the lore, meaning it was meant to be affecting dragons that were born AFTER the Bounty of the elements. But they later decided to give old dragons a chance and hence the scattersight, which they also admit was executed poorly. They now decided that having limited number of clan-bound vials for everyone is a better middle ground, which I agree. That leaves only the older eye types out of the equation so it's only fair to give out some vials for facet, multi-gaze, and primal too. But whether they should keep all these vials open for trade and unretired? Not necessary imo.
edit:
Just to say please don't ping me. I will contribute to the discussion when I see fit. Thank you. :)
[quote name="thecatsred" date="2019-05-20 14:22:47" ]
[quote name="Before" date="2019-05-20 14:15:04" ]
If some eye types can be applied AND bred, all of them should be.
[/quote]
So all eye types should be breedable and all eye types should be buyable, is what you're saying?
If so - I agree.
[/quote]
Pretty much. I think they should either keep it as it is, or abolish the whole natural/unnatural thing and make both available from both methods. I just don't want one category to be available in multiple ways and not the other.
thecatsred wrote on 2019-05-20 14:22:47:
Before wrote on 2019-05-20 14:15:04:
If some eye types can be applied AND bred, all of them should be.
So all eye types should be breedable and all eye types should be buyable, is what you're saying?
If so - I agree.
Pretty much. I think they should either keep it as it is, or abolish the whole natural/unnatural thing and make both available from both methods. I just don't want one category to be available in multiple ways and not the other.
[quote]If you want a dragon with primal eyes you can just buy one. [/quote]
You can by[i] a[/i] dragon with primal eyes, I've bought plenty as fodder and exalted them in fact. There's no guarantee at all that you can buy [u]the one you want[/u] with the elemental primal eyes you want. Unless you want something very very very popular and commonly bred/sold in terms of colors/genes you're not that likely to find the one you want for sale for a price you are willing to pay.
I want these (among others)
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=120&bodygene=24&breed=11&element=8&eyetype=6&gender=1&tert=128&tertgene=10&winggene=25&wings=160&auth=101f37efd284937b17b6a6dd3d9e6d76f75bba33&dummyext=prev.png[/img] (only [b]two[/b] dragons on-site with those colors and they are all wrong for genes/breed)
[img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=70&bodygene=15&breed=10&element=3&eyetype=6&gender=0&tert=171&tertgene=24&winggene=24&wings=102&auth=a75bc59426cb66295ef5d90987217d0f3e285f89&dummyext=prev.png[/img] This color combination doesn't exist on site at all, so what are the odds I'm going to find him for sale in the AH with [i]those[/i] Wind primal eyes? Nil. I have basically no chance of ever finding that exact dragon (even if I disregard genes and breed) for sale. And the odds on the Light primal are equally abysmal.
I'll have to breed for parents who can produce them as hatchlings myself and then rent nests (with the associated risks) and fight with RNG for potentially YEARS to try and hatch the dragons I want. If we had eye vials? I could buy, or breed, a dragon with the correct flight and colors and do the work needed to be able to scroll the necessary elements to match what I want.
Primal (and the other eye types) [i]is not[/i] valuable in and of itself. It's only worth anything if it's on a dragon someone wants, most likely for a combination of other factors as well -color/genes/breed/ID#/hatch date/ etc. Ugly fodder dragons with primal are [i]still [/i]fodder dragons.
Quote:
If you want a dragon with primal eyes you can just buy one.
You can by
a dragon with primal eyes, I've bought plenty as fodder and exalted them in fact. There's no guarantee at all that you can buy
the one you want with the elemental primal eyes you want. Unless you want something very very very popular and commonly bred/sold in terms of colors/genes you're not that likely to find the one you want for sale for a price you are willing to pay.
I want these (among others)
(only
two dragons on-site with those colors and they are all wrong for genes/breed)
This color combination doesn't exist on site at all, so what are the odds I'm going to find him for sale in the AH with
those Wind primal eyes? Nil. I have basically no chance of ever finding that exact dragon (even if I disregard genes and breed) for sale. And the odds on the Light primal are equally abysmal.
I'll have to breed for parents who can produce them as hatchlings myself and then rent nests (with the associated risks) and fight with RNG for potentially YEARS to try and hatch the dragons I want. If we had eye vials? I could buy, or breed, a dragon with the correct flight and colors and do the work needed to be able to scroll the necessary elements to match what I want.
Primal (and the other eye types)
is not valuable in and of itself. It's only worth anything if it's on a dragon someone wants, most likely for a combination of other factors as well -color/genes/breed/ID#/hatch date/ etc. Ugly fodder dragons with primal are
still fodder dragons.
[quote name="0rangedragon" date="2019-05-20 14:27:20" ]
No support.
If for no other reason that the devs explained exactly how they were handling the eye situation (which they have had almost a year to discuss amongst themselves and listen to feedback from the community) less than an hour before the OP created this thread.
[/quote]
Them explaining how they won't bring back scattersights or legacy eye types? And then talking about how new natural eye types will be implemented further, without mentioning why they have to be strictly breeding lock and how it goes against the idea of "customize your dragons to your liking!" thing that is the core part of the site as people have mentioned?
This solution barely helps anyone, only 2 vials per person for only the newest natural eye type, opening up a door for people to scam others. If they can do that, why not vials for all the natural eye types? You don't have to get rid of the fun of random breeding to have vials, and having vials wont ruin the enjoyment of hatching a primal.
0rangedragon wrote on 2019-05-20 14:27:20:
No support.
If for no other reason that the devs explained exactly how they were handling the eye situation (which they have had almost a year to discuss amongst themselves and listen to feedback from the community) less than an hour before the OP created this thread.
Them explaining how they won't bring back scattersights or legacy eye types? And then talking about how new natural eye types will be implemented further, without mentioning why they have to be strictly breeding lock and how it goes against the idea of "customize your dragons to your liking!" thing that is the core part of the site as people have mentioned?
This solution barely helps anyone, only 2 vials per person for only the newest natural eye type, opening up a door for people to scam others. If they can do that, why not vials for all the natural eye types? You don't have to get rid of the fun of random breeding to have vials, and having vials wont ruin the enjoyment of hatching a primal.
[quote name="Before" date="2019-05-20 14:15:04" ]
[quote name="gemajgall" date="2019-05-20 14:03:38" ]
Eyes are different when it comes to breeding because none of them can be passed on. That's why we need to be able to apply them to dragons.
[/quote]
Different from what? Genes/breeds? If so, yes they are different from those, because genes/breeds can be both applied and bred.
Ignoring limited-time gifts, eyes can be applied OR bred with the sole exception of Common, and Common is just maintaining the old status quo (one eye type per element that can be reliably bred for).
If some eye types can be applied AND bred, all of them should be.
[/quote]
Sorry I didn't have time to finish my previous post due to IRL.
And that's exactly the point. Genes and breeds are all [i]accessible[/i] to old dragons and new dragons alike (the sole exception being Imperial for good reason). Eyes are [i]not[/i] equally accessible for old and new dragons alike.
That's why all eyes need to be able to be applied to dragons; that's why we need vials. Sure, a dragon cannot be bred with glow, [i]however[/i], once it's born, it can have glow applied to it like every single other dragon. It's not banned from glow; it's not barred or gatekeeped or prevented in any way. Unfortunately, all old dragons [i]are[/i] barred from facet and primal and rare and whatnot except for a heavily skewed retired consumable RNG item that even the admins admitted was a mistake.
The solution isn't to double down or bar dragons further. The solution isn't to cut off existing users and belittle the indignation they feel. The solution is compromise; the solution is giving in a little. And that best solution is individual eye vials--preferably with a high price tag and/or obtainability through on-site mechanics.
Other solutions include cycling the scattervial, creating a new type of scattervial(s), legacy eyes, or even transferring eyes from one dragon to another. And if that includes making all the unnatural eyes breedable, then so be it.
Before wrote on 2019-05-20 14:15:04:
gemajgall wrote on 2019-05-20 14:03:38:
Eyes are different when it comes to breeding because none of them can be passed on. That's why we need to be able to apply them to dragons.
Different from what? Genes/breeds? If so, yes they are different from those, because genes/breeds can be both applied and bred.
Ignoring limited-time gifts, eyes can be applied OR bred with the sole exception of Common, and Common is just maintaining the old status quo (one eye type per element that can be reliably bred for).
If some eye types can be applied AND bred, all of them should be.
Sorry I didn't have time to finish my previous post due to IRL.
And that's exactly the point. Genes and breeds are all
accessible to old dragons and new dragons alike (the sole exception being Imperial for good reason). Eyes are
not equally accessible for old and new dragons alike.
That's why all eyes need to be able to be applied to dragons; that's why we need vials. Sure, a dragon cannot be bred with glow,
however, once it's born, it can have glow applied to it like every single other dragon. It's not banned from glow; it's not barred or gatekeeped or prevented in any way. Unfortunately, all old dragons
are barred from facet and primal and rare and whatnot except for a heavily skewed retired consumable RNG item that even the admins admitted was a mistake.
The solution isn't to double down or bar dragons further. The solution isn't to cut off existing users and belittle the indignation they feel. The solution is compromise; the solution is giving in a little. And that best solution is individual eye vials--preferably with a high price tag and/or obtainability through on-site mechanics.
Other solutions include cycling the scattervial, creating a new type of scattervial(s), legacy eyes, or even transferring eyes from one dragon to another. And if that includes making all the unnatural eyes breedable, then so be it.
Pings are disabled.
If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
