I support it!
Basically it should be the drop in all areas, though lowering it for some heavily used/more easily defeated areas may keep the rarity slightly up. (So like. put it in all venues, but make it lower in the everything before the sandswept delta and in the graveyard, crystal pools, and mire since they have a good enough challenge rating to be used in fodder training and are thus used more. And the lower ones just so as not to give an OVERWHELMING advantage to higher level peeps. They still get an advantage, which they should, since they have a lvl 25, but not an insane one.)
I support it!
Basically it should be the drop in all areas, though lowering it for some heavily used/more easily defeated areas may keep the rarity slightly up. (So like. put it in all venues, but make it lower in the everything before the sandswept delta and in the graveyard, crystal pools, and mire since they have a good enough challenge rating to be used in fodder training and are thus used more. And the lower ones just so as not to give an OVERWHELMING advantage to higher level peeps. They still get an advantage, which they should, since they have a lvl 25, but not an insane one.)
I know I'm going to sound like one of those old people with the whole "back in my day" thing, but when I joined, eliminates were so much less expensive, like 150kt I think? Aka, a relatively high but reasonable price. The previous drop rates were fine, but with welcome week added, there are so many new players, and the demand has significantly increased. These weren't supposed to be extremely hard to get items. Then there is the fact that a lot of players use grinding and leveling/exalting to make money, but it is very hard to do without an eliminate, so it's a bit harder to make that money in the first place. As such a powerful game element, they shouldn't be cheap, but I think they should be a bit easier to get.
I know I'm going to sound like one of those old people with the whole "back in my day" thing, but when I joined, eliminates were so much less expensive, like 150kt I think? Aka, a relatively high but reasonable price. The previous drop rates were fine, but with welcome week added, there are so many new players, and the demand has significantly increased. These weren't supposed to be extremely hard to get items. Then there is the fact that a lot of players use grinding and leveling/exalting to make money, but it is very hard to do without an eliminate, so it's a bit harder to make that money in the first place. As such a powerful game element, they shouldn't be cheap, but I think they should be a bit easier to get.
No support.
Eliminates are rare and powerful, but not essential; I've seen a build around that doesn't require eliminate. I don't remember what it's called, but it probably wouldn't be hard to find it via a quick forum search.
They're meant to be rare, because they're extremely powerful.
And "Certain venues" means all but what? Two venues? Or is it three venues? I don't remember if they drop in the vents, but I know they don't drop in the mire or crystal pools - it would be a huge help if they dropped in those two or three venues, especially if it dropped in the mire.
But I don't think that eliminate needs to be added to the marketplace, or Baldwin, or Swipp, or any other ways of obtaining it. I think it's alright to have it only drop in the coliseum, but I do support them dropping in all venues. This would take the price down because the mire is a very popular place to grind.
No support.
Eliminates are rare and powerful, but not essential; I've seen a build around that doesn't require eliminate. I don't remember what it's called, but it probably wouldn't be hard to find it via a quick forum search.
They're meant to be rare, because they're extremely powerful.
And "Certain venues" means all but what? Two venues? Or is it three venues? I don't remember if they drop in the vents, but I know they don't drop in the mire or crystal pools - it would be a huge help if they dropped in those two or three venues, especially if it dropped in the mire.
But I don't think that eliminate needs to be added to the marketplace, or Baldwin, or Swipp, or any other ways of obtaining it. I think it's alright to have it only drop in the coliseum, but I do support them dropping in all venues. This would take the price down because the mire is a very popular place to grind.
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Toonkuriboh Are they essential for overall enjoyment of the Coli? No. But they are essential for a certain playstyle, the Dom-based playstyle.
It will take easily triple the time to level a dragon to 7 without Elim as it does with it. That means everyone else is exalting 3x more dragons than you. You lose your competitive edge, and if you work with a team, you slow them down as well. Oh, and people without Elim tend to not win Dom-based raffles.
If you start looking at the bigger picture, Elims will tend to pool in richer Flights that are already Dom-heavy. Those Flights exalt triple the dragons, they get triple the Dom, Light-Flight-Best-Flight, etc.
Or to phrase it another way, how many more people (esp. people who aren't in Dom-heavy Flights) would Dom competitively if it were within their means? How many would find that they actually enjoy it instead of finding it an hours-long drag?
And as I mentioned in my first post, the site-wide economy only stands to benefit if Dom (or at least less grindy exalting) becomes available to everyone who wants it.
EDIT: So the 3x the time statistic was based on my personal experience but it was just pointed out to me that I get distracted easily so let's go with 2x? Does anyone else have any good stats?
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Toonkuriboh Are they essential for overall enjoyment of the Coli? No. But they are essential for a certain playstyle, the Dom-based playstyle.
It will take easily triple the time to level a dragon to 7 without Elim as it does with it. That means everyone else is exalting 3x more dragons than you. You lose your competitive edge, and if you work with a team, you slow them down as well. Oh, and people without Elim tend to not win Dom-based raffles.
If you start looking at the bigger picture, Elims will tend to pool in richer Flights that are already Dom-heavy. Those Flights exalt triple the dragons, they get triple the Dom, Light-Flight-Best-Flight, etc.
Or to phrase it another way, how many more people (esp. people who aren't in Dom-heavy Flights) would Dom competitively if it were within their means? How many would find that they actually enjoy it instead of finding it an hours-long drag?
And as I mentioned in my first post, the site-wide economy only stands to benefit if Dom (or at least less grindy exalting) becomes available to everyone who wants it.
EDIT: So the 3x the time statistic was based on my personal experience but it was just pointed out to me that I get distracted easily so let's go with 2x? Does anyone else have any good stats?
It takes
Twelve Years for one Imperial pair to produce a Primal-eyed offspring of a specific sex. Goal-based breeding is dead.
I want Eliminates to be a really high-level, complex level Baldwin Brew, tbh.
I did mention that I wanted it to be something like 10 Gold Mucks, 10 Silver Mucks, 10 Blue Goo, 10 Blue Oozes, 10 Blue Sludge and something like 250 000 money for a level 20, 4-day brew or something like that.
I want Eliminates to be a really high-level, complex level Baldwin Brew, tbh.
I did mention that I wanted it to be something like 10 Gold Mucks, 10 Silver Mucks, 10 Blue Goo, 10 Blue Oozes, 10 Blue Sludge and something like 250 000 money for a level 20, 4-day brew or something like that.
Support for both, honestly. The brew and the increase in drops to the mire and pools.
I would also agree that it does take away one's competitive edge simply because you cannot work as quickly as another flight can. I don't mind rarity, but I do mind when things start to get inaccessible to all players. Which is currently what's happening with Eliminate, and I'm actually watching trends for the same, slowly. With Rally.
If there's going to be a rapid increase of players, the statistical drops should at least be tailored to meet demand and make it accessible, or dropped to all venues. Because as the system stands now, it really isn't workable.
Then again at this point it's cheaper to buy a dragon that's already stoned, but that's besides the point.
I retract that statement, I did further research on the ah and I found exactly no dragons under 500k that had eliminate already on them. Again this is something that's negatively impacting all players.
The point is, a part of the game that to me in my opinion makes the coli more fun, and truly does give one a competitive edge in Dom, is steadily becoming inaccessible to pretty much everyone but the richest of our players.
That is an unbalanced system, and it needs to be addressed.
Perhaps this will not fall on deaf ears.
Support for both, honestly. The brew and the increase in drops to the mire and pools.
I would also agree that it does take away one's competitive edge simply because you cannot work as quickly as another flight can. I don't mind rarity, but I do mind when things start to get inaccessible to all players. Which is currently what's happening with Eliminate, and I'm actually watching trends for the same, slowly. With Rally.
If there's going to be a rapid increase of players, the statistical drops should at least be tailored to meet demand and make it accessible, or dropped to all venues. Because as the system stands now, it really isn't workable.
Then again at this point it's cheaper to buy a dragon that's already stoned, but that's besides the point.
I retract that statement, I did further research on the ah and I found exactly no dragons under 500k that had eliminate already on them. Again this is something that's negatively impacting all players.
The point is, a part of the game that to me in my opinion makes the coli more fun, and truly does give one a competitive edge in Dom, is steadily becoming inaccessible to pretty much everyone but the richest of our players.
That is an unbalanced system, and it needs to be addressed.
Perhaps this will not fall on deaf ears.
I think another thing to consider is that as far as I know eliminate drops from bosses in some areas and with some builds you can't kill bosses without dying so you miss the super slim elim drop opportunity there.
(see whichever boss in ghostlight drops it which you can't easily defeat with the dual trainer builds)
My fear is eliminates added to mire but only to wartoads which 99% of trainers run from.
So yes drop in every venue, try to make sure it's dropping from more than just bosses.
Eliminates were something like 50-60kT when I stoned my first team (uh post nature fest or post light fest so those prices might have been slightly low due to arena fest grinding). I totally just went to fairgrounds for a week earning like 20-30kt a day and had plenty of money to stone.
I think a price in the range of 3 days of fairgrounds feels fine (since you also have to buy or get drops for other stones, the final cost of a stoned 25 is more than just the elim cost).
I think another thing to consider is that as far as I know eliminate drops from bosses in some areas and with some builds you can't kill bosses without dying so you miss the super slim elim drop opportunity there.
(see whichever boss in ghostlight drops it which you can't easily defeat with the dual trainer builds)
My fear is eliminates added to mire but only to wartoads which 99% of trainers run from.
So yes drop in every venue, try to make sure it's dropping from more than just bosses.
Eliminates were something like 50-60kT when I stoned my first team (uh post nature fest or post light fest so those prices might have been slightly low due to arena fest grinding). I totally just went to fairgrounds for a week earning like 20-30kt a day and had plenty of money to stone.
I think a price in the range of 3 days of fairgrounds feels fine (since you also have to buy or get drops for other stones, the final cost of a stoned 25 is more than just the elim cost).
I haven't had an Eliminate drop in over two years, in any venue. Heck my whole coli challenge is really just a way to disguise me trying to grind for Eliminates in the lower venues because without it feeling like a mindless hand-numbing grind.
But, I remember getting Elims out of the Training Grounds and there are no bosses there. So Elims aren't limited to Bosses, though that'd be a great idea, IMO. Bosses already appear rarely enough to make them good Elim hosts.
I don't know if off-hand anyone has the average appearance ratio for Mire bosses, for example, but here's what I have.
I used to train to lv. 8 in the Mire, that takes around ~33 rounds. Maybe every other fodder I'd get a boss fight, so I had a 1:66 boss appearance ratio. I now train to lv. 10, and that has about a ~69 round to level rate, and I run across 2 bosses sometimes, or only 1 or none. Out of 207 battles over three fodder, if there was even a 10 percent chance at an Elim from bosses I would be happy.
That might be a good compromise, I think. restrict Elims in high venues (Crystal Pools and higher) only to bosses, which themselves appear rarely and then make it like <10% chance of them dropping the stones. As you said, most trainers would rather run than fight them, which itself would probably half the drop rate to <5% if most of the time you run from the potential holder.
I haven't had an Eliminate drop in over two years, in any venue. Heck my whole coli challenge is really just a way to disguise me trying to grind for Eliminates in the lower venues because without it feeling like a mindless hand-numbing grind.
But, I remember getting Elims out of the Training Grounds and there are no bosses there. So Elims aren't limited to Bosses, though that'd be a great idea, IMO. Bosses already appear rarely enough to make them good Elim hosts.
I don't know if off-hand anyone has the average appearance ratio for Mire bosses, for example, but here's what I have.
I used to train to lv. 8 in the Mire, that takes around ~33 rounds. Maybe every other fodder I'd get a boss fight, so I had a 1:66 boss appearance ratio. I now train to lv. 10, and that has about a ~69 round to level rate, and I run across 2 bosses sometimes, or only 1 or none. Out of 207 battles over three fodder, if there was even a 10 percent chance at an Elim from bosses I would be happy.
That might be a good compromise, I think. restrict Elims in high venues (Crystal Pools and higher) only to bosses, which themselves appear rarely and then make it like <10% chance of them dropping the stones. As you said, most trainers would rather run than fight them, which itself would probably half the drop rate to <5% if most of the time you run from the potential holder.
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Support...
I never got an Eliminate and I bought it only once for my Progen (it cost me like 70kt back then XD) and now... wow it is so expensive. Baldwin brew would be awesome. And also, why not MP? It could cost 100kt or something.
Aaaand yes, why Eliminate does not drop in all the venues? :0
Support...
I never got an Eliminate and I bought it only once for my Progen (it cost me like 70kt back then XD) and now... wow it is so expensive. Baldwin brew would be awesome. And also, why not MP? It could cost 100kt or something.
Aaaand yes, why Eliminate does not drop in all the venues? :0
[quote name="Sopheroo" date=2017-07-21 05:02:17]
I want Eliminates to be a really high-level, complex level Baldwin Brew, tbh.
I did mention that I wanted it to be something like 10 Gold Mucks, 10 Silver Mucks, 10 Blue Goo, 10 Blue Oozes, 10 Blue Sludge and something like 250 000 money for a level 20, 4-day brew or something like that.
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I don't agree with your argument for it being high-level. Only the players who've been here for years will be able to brew it. By then they probably would've already gotten eliminate.
I'd make it low-level, which means it's achievable for newbies. Level 5 or so. Don't change the price, but instead of a couple of high-level mats, maybe a lot more mid-level mats. Like, 30 orange ooze, 30 yellow sludge, etc. Annoying, but achievable for newbies if given a month or so.
Sopheroo wrote on 2017-07-21:
I want Eliminates to be a really high-level, complex level Baldwin Brew, tbh.
I did mention that I wanted it to be something like 10 Gold Mucks, 10 Silver Mucks, 10 Blue Goo, 10 Blue Oozes, 10 Blue Sludge and something like 250 000 money for a level 20, 4-day brew or something like that.
I don't agree with your argument for it being high-level. Only the players who've been here for years will be able to brew it. By then they probably would've already gotten eliminate.
I'd make it low-level, which means it's achievable for newbies. Level 5 or so. Don't change the price, but instead of a couple of high-level mats, maybe a lot more mid-level mats. Like, 30 orange ooze, 30 yellow sludge, etc. Annoying, but achievable for newbies if given a month or so.
