I do support a gender change scroll, but I find some other ideas a little worrisome. It's not common that a trans person desires the world to know they are trans. So a trans dragon would actually probably be out of place. Trans people don't come out to the world, they want to be stealth. They dont want to be known as the boy who turned into a girl. They want to be known as a girl.
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TOPIC | A trans* NPC!
I do support a gender change scroll, but I find some other ideas a little worrisome. It's not common that a trans person desires the world to know they are trans. So a trans dragon would actually probably be out of place. Trans people don't come out to the world, they want to be stealth. They dont want to be known as the boy who turned into a girl. They want to be known as a girl.
I .... am not sure if it's necessary, to be honest. It's a nice suggestion, but I don't necessarily think it's a good idea to implement a Trans* Dragon for the wrong reasons... It feels too soon, as if it were some sort of 'we did it' trophy and nothing more. :c
I do like Azelk's idea though, should a gender change scroll be implemented in the future! That is a nice, neutral example to implement a Trans* Dragon for our site needs. c:
I do like Azelk's idea though, should a gender change scroll be implemented in the future! That is a nice, neutral example to implement a Trans* Dragon for our site needs. c:
I .... am not sure if it's necessary, to be honest. It's a nice suggestion, but I don't necessarily think it's a good idea to implement a Trans* Dragon for the wrong reasons... It feels too soon, as if it were some sort of 'we did it' trophy and nothing more. :c
I do like Azelk's idea though, should a gender change scroll be implemented in the future! That is a nice, neutral example to implement a Trans* Dragon for our site needs. c:
I do like Azelk's idea though, should a gender change scroll be implemented in the future! That is a nice, neutral example to implement a Trans* Dragon for our site needs. c:
I wouldn't speak for all trans people, as there are some who are open about their trans history as a way of raising awareness to trans rights, so I won't touch on whether or not it would be appropriate for there to be an openly trans NPC in that regards.
What I will say is that I, for one, would not want to see this hurtful and distressing event memorialised. Nor do I think it would be appropriate to create a trans NPC merely because there has been transphobia and cissexism.
I do like the idea of a gender change option being available for dragons, but I'm not sure that "trans looking" images would be a sensitive, thoughtful, considerate, or accurate way to handle it. Do the people suggesting this not realise that many, if not most trans people who have had all of the appropriate hormone treatments and gender affirming surgeries xould walk past them naked and they would be indistinguishable from a cis person?
Besides, why can't an existing NPC be revealed as trans? Not in the sense of being outed, but perhaps just a little tidbit in an encyclopedia article. Because I don't personally feel like we need another trans character where their defining feature or reason for being is to be trans. I'd be much happier with, "Oh, by the way, this neat character you already know for other reasons? Happens to be trans."Bonus points if it is a god.
What I will say is that I, for one, would not want to see this hurtful and distressing event memorialised. Nor do I think it would be appropriate to create a trans NPC merely because there has been transphobia and cissexism.
I do like the idea of a gender change option being available for dragons, but I'm not sure that "trans looking" images would be a sensitive, thoughtful, considerate, or accurate way to handle it. Do the people suggesting this not realise that many, if not most trans people who have had all of the appropriate hormone treatments and gender affirming surgeries xould walk past them naked and they would be indistinguishable from a cis person?
Besides, why can't an existing NPC be revealed as trans? Not in the sense of being outed, but perhaps just a little tidbit in an encyclopedia article. Because I don't personally feel like we need another trans character where their defining feature or reason for being is to be trans. I'd be much happier with, "Oh, by the way, this neat character you already know for other reasons? Happens to be trans."
I wouldn't speak for all trans people, as there are some who are open about their trans history as a way of raising awareness to trans rights, so I won't touch on whether or not it would be appropriate for there to be an openly trans NPC in that regards.
What I will say is that I, for one, would not want to see this hurtful and distressing event memorialised. Nor do I think it would be appropriate to create a trans NPC merely because there has been transphobia and cissexism.
I do like the idea of a gender change option being available for dragons, but I'm not sure that "trans looking" images would be a sensitive, thoughtful, considerate, or accurate way to handle it. Do the people suggesting this not realise that many, if not most trans people who have had all of the appropriate hormone treatments and gender affirming surgeries xould walk past them naked and they would be indistinguishable from a cis person?
Besides, why can't an existing NPC be revealed as trans? Not in the sense of being outed, but perhaps just a little tidbit in an encyclopedia article. Because I don't personally feel like we need another trans character where their defining feature or reason for being is to be trans. I'd be much happier with, "Oh, by the way, this neat character you already know for other reasons? Happens to be trans."Bonus points if it is a god.
What I will say is that I, for one, would not want to see this hurtful and distressing event memorialised. Nor do I think it would be appropriate to create a trans NPC merely because there has been transphobia and cissexism.
I do like the idea of a gender change option being available for dragons, but I'm not sure that "trans looking" images would be a sensitive, thoughtful, considerate, or accurate way to handle it. Do the people suggesting this not realise that many, if not most trans people who have had all of the appropriate hormone treatments and gender affirming surgeries xould walk past them naked and they would be indistinguishable from a cis person?
Besides, why can't an existing NPC be revealed as trans? Not in the sense of being outed, but perhaps just a little tidbit in an encyclopedia article. Because I don't personally feel like we need another trans character where their defining feature or reason for being is to be trans. I'd be much happier with, "Oh, by the way, this neat character you already know for other reasons? Happens to be trans."
[quote name="Niao" date="2013-07-19 07:01:36" url="main.php?p=mb&board=sug&page=1&id=599238#604501"]I wouldn't speak for all trans people, as there are some who are open about their trans history as a way of raising awareness to trans rights, so I won't touch on whether or not it would be appropriate for there to be an openly trans NPC in that regards.
What I will say is that I, for one, would not want to see this hurtful and distressing event memorialised. Nor do I think it would be appropriate to create a trans NPC merely because there has been transphobia and cissexism.
I do like the idea of a gender change option being available for dragons, but I'm not sure that "trans looking" images would be a sensitive, thoughtful, considerate, or accurate way to handle it. Do the people suggesting this not realise that many, if not most trans people who have had all of the appropriate hormone treatments and gender affirming surgeries xould walk past them naked and they would be indistinguishable from a cis person?
Besides, why can't an existing NPC be revealed as trans? Not in the sense of being outed, but perhaps just a little tidbit in an encyclopedia article. Because I don't personally feel like we need another trans character where their defining feature or reason for being is to be trans. I'd be much happier with, "Oh, by the way, this neat character you already know for other reasons? Happens to be trans." [s]Bonus points if it is a god. [/s][/quote]
Oh god, this. Please, I understand wanting to repair hurt feelings of FR's trans community, and to make sure we feel included and welcome, but...
I appreciate the thought of having a character to identify with, but I'm not sure I want it to be a "token minority" character, especially without precedent and equal representation for other sexualities or genders. Thinking about it, it honestly makes me feel very singled out and othered, not really... represented or included. Not to mention, having the trans part of a dragon becoming its defining trait is problematic.
I really like the idea of one of the gods or couriers being trans, though, as a lore tidbit. That way, the character wasn't made to be a token trans character, and being trans isn't the character's function. The character is a "person" first, not a stereotype or defined by their minority, and I think that's what's most important.
I wouldn't speak for all trans people, as there are some who are open about their trans history as a way of raising awareness to trans rights, so I won't touch on whether or not it would be appropriate for there to be an openly trans NPC in that regards.
What I will say is that I, for one, would not want to see this hurtful and distressing event memorialised. Nor do I think it would be appropriate to create a trans NPC merely because there has been transphobia and cissexism.
I do like the idea of a gender change option being available for dragons, but I'm not sure that "trans looking" images would be a sensitive, thoughtful, considerate, or accurate way to handle it. Do the people suggesting this not realise that many, if not most trans people who have had all of the appropriate hormone treatments and gender affirming surgeries xould walk past them naked and they would be indistinguishable from a cis person?
Besides, why can't an existing NPC be revealed as trans? Not in the sense of being outed, but perhaps just a little tidbit in an encyclopedia article. Because I don't personally feel like we need another trans character where their defining feature or reason for being is to be trans. I'd be much happier with, "Oh, by the way, this neat character you already know for other reasons? Happens to be trans."Bonus points if it is a god.
What I will say is that I, for one, would not want to see this hurtful and distressing event memorialised. Nor do I think it would be appropriate to create a trans NPC merely because there has been transphobia and cissexism.
I do like the idea of a gender change option being available for dragons, but I'm not sure that "trans looking" images would be a sensitive, thoughtful, considerate, or accurate way to handle it. Do the people suggesting this not realise that many, if not most trans people who have had all of the appropriate hormone treatments and gender affirming surgeries xould walk past them naked and they would be indistinguishable from a cis person?
Besides, why can't an existing NPC be revealed as trans? Not in the sense of being outed, but perhaps just a little tidbit in an encyclopedia article. Because I don't personally feel like we need another trans character where their defining feature or reason for being is to be trans. I'd be much happier with, "Oh, by the way, this neat character you already know for other reasons? Happens to be trans."
Oh god, this. Please, I understand wanting to repair hurt feelings of FR's trans community, and to make sure we feel included and welcome, but...
I appreciate the thought of having a character to identify with, but I'm not sure I want it to be a "token minority" character, especially without precedent and equal representation for other sexualities or genders. Thinking about it, it honestly makes me feel very singled out and othered, not really... represented or included. Not to mention, having the trans part of a dragon becoming its defining trait is problematic.
I really like the idea of one of the gods or couriers being trans, though, as a lore tidbit. That way, the character wasn't made to be a token trans character, and being trans isn't the character's function. The character is a "person" first, not a stereotype or defined by their minority, and I think that's what's most important.
I agree with the people who have said it's too soon. It's not a bad idea, but I do think the dust needs to settle first. I think it would be awesome if they introduced trans* characters along with whatever new additions to the site will pop up in the future. For example, if they ever decide to implement the exaltation temple thingy idea :D How cool would it be to have a bunch of really ****** temple guardians, out of which some are trans*?
Also agree that it was kind of unnecessary to give the deities genders to begin with.
Also agree that it was kind of unnecessary to give the deities genders to begin with.
I agree with the people who have said it's too soon. It's not a bad idea, but I do think the dust needs to settle first. I think it would be awesome if they introduced trans* characters along with whatever new additions to the site will pop up in the future. For example, if they ever decide to implement the exaltation temple thingy idea :D How cool would it be to have a bunch of really ****** temple guardians, out of which some are trans*?
Also agree that it was kind of unnecessary to give the deities genders to begin with.
Also agree that it was kind of unnecessary to give the deities genders to begin with.
The only reason this is appears to be coming up is because of the drama, so no support from me. We had a similar suggestion come up about representing gay dragons earlier and there wasn't much support for it. So I don't see why this is necessary either.
But I do wish that the gods hadn't been gendered. In my experience, god-like characters are usually genderless, but maybe I just play too much Pokemon.
But I do wish that the gods hadn't been gendered. In my experience, god-like characters are usually genderless, but maybe I just play too much Pokemon.
The only reason this is appears to be coming up is because of the drama, so no support from me. We had a similar suggestion come up about representing gay dragons earlier and there wasn't much support for it. So I don't see why this is necessary either.
But I do wish that the gods hadn't been gendered. In my experience, god-like characters are usually genderless, but maybe I just play too much Pokemon.
But I do wish that the gods hadn't been gendered. In my experience, god-like characters are usually genderless, but maybe I just play too much Pokemon.
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If the goal is highlighting the importance of trans* awareness, perhaps a gem item (a skin or accent, or possibly even the dragon gender change item people have been suggesting) that had profits from its purchase donated to a trans* awareness campaign or trans* rights organization would be more effective? That would both avoid the risk of causing further hurt with the appearance of tokenism, and have positive impact beyond just the site itself.
If the goal is highlighting the importance of trans* awareness, perhaps a gem item (a skin or accent, or possibly even the dragon gender change item people have been suggesting) that had profits from its purchase donated to a trans* awareness campaign or trans* rights organization would be more effective? That would both avoid the risk of causing further hurt with the appearance of tokenism, and have positive impact beyond just the site itself.
I'd like to see some form of non-cisgender character, but am unsure how it could be done. As said previously in the thread- some trans* people do not wish for it to be known that they're trans* and they wish to live stealth, which is something to consider (it's very, very unlikely, but how do we know one of the NPC's isn't already trans*? And is living stealth.)
The point to writing a good trans* character, is, you do not make being trans* the focus point of their character, and sometimes you don't even make it obvious or leave it up to speculation. I, personally, would feel very offended if someone whom knew me assumed that the only important thing in my life was the fact I was transgender, and that all other interests and aspects of my life were dwarfed by that fact.
A gender-neutral character would be wonderful. Perhaps one which displays aspects of both genders of a dragon species and uses neutral pronouns/others use neutral pronouns to refer to them. A gender change scroll would be great, for both this and generally for the game.
Uh, basically, my opinion is, this is a good idea, but don't make a big deal out of it, or don't make it too obvious.
The point to writing a good trans* character, is, you do not make being trans* the focus point of their character, and sometimes you don't even make it obvious or leave it up to speculation. I, personally, would feel very offended if someone whom knew me assumed that the only important thing in my life was the fact I was transgender, and that all other interests and aspects of my life were dwarfed by that fact.
A gender-neutral character would be wonderful. Perhaps one which displays aspects of both genders of a dragon species and uses neutral pronouns/others use neutral pronouns to refer to them. A gender change scroll would be great, for both this and generally for the game.
Uh, basically, my opinion is, this is a good idea, but don't make a big deal out of it, or don't make it too obvious.
I'd like to see some form of non-cisgender character, but am unsure how it could be done. As said previously in the thread- some trans* people do not wish for it to be known that they're trans* and they wish to live stealth, which is something to consider (it's very, very unlikely, but how do we know one of the NPC's isn't already trans*? And is living stealth.)
The point to writing a good trans* character, is, you do not make being trans* the focus point of their character, and sometimes you don't even make it obvious or leave it up to speculation. I, personally, would feel very offended if someone whom knew me assumed that the only important thing in my life was the fact I was transgender, and that all other interests and aspects of my life were dwarfed by that fact.
A gender-neutral character would be wonderful. Perhaps one which displays aspects of both genders of a dragon species and uses neutral pronouns/others use neutral pronouns to refer to them. A gender change scroll would be great, for both this and generally for the game.
Uh, basically, my opinion is, this is a good idea, but don't make a big deal out of it, or don't make it too obvious.
The point to writing a good trans* character, is, you do not make being trans* the focus point of their character, and sometimes you don't even make it obvious or leave it up to speculation. I, personally, would feel very offended if someone whom knew me assumed that the only important thing in my life was the fact I was transgender, and that all other interests and aspects of my life were dwarfed by that fact.
A gender-neutral character would be wonderful. Perhaps one which displays aspects of both genders of a dragon species and uses neutral pronouns/others use neutral pronouns to refer to them. A gender change scroll would be great, for both this and generally for the game.
Uh, basically, my opinion is, this is a good idea, but don't make a big deal out of it, or don't make it too obvious.
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Yo, I am a dude from the UK, 8 hours ahead of server time! Desperately looking for a Skycat.
My favourite animals are cats, deer, octopus, jellyfish and squids.
Yo, I am a dude from the UK, 8 hours ahead of server time! Desperately looking for a Skycat.
My favourite animals are cats, deer, octopus, jellyfish and squids.
Timing is off. That said: I like the idea of casually encyclopedia-outing an NPC as already trans*, I like the idea of a genderfluid dragon presenting the gender-change scroll, and I think there are ways of presenting this that can be supportive... or might utterly fail.
Personally, as a FTM, I don't mind outing myself online, but I try pretty damn hard to be stealth IRL. I'm pretty sure that's a pretty common take on it, too.
Personally, as a FTM, I don't mind outing myself online, but I try pretty damn hard to be stealth IRL. I'm pretty sure that's a pretty common take on it, too.
Timing is off. That said: I like the idea of casually encyclopedia-outing an NPC as already trans*, I like the idea of a genderfluid dragon presenting the gender-change scroll, and I think there are ways of presenting this that can be supportive... or might utterly fail.
Personally, as a FTM, I don't mind outing myself online, but I try pretty damn hard to be stealth IRL. I'm pretty sure that's a pretty common take on it, too.
Personally, as a FTM, I don't mind outing myself online, but I try pretty damn hard to be stealth IRL. I'm pretty sure that's a pretty common take on it, too.
The people who say that it wasn't good/wise/necessary to gender the gods forget that gender is largely a self-identified thing. Why would we deny the deities the right to define their own gender? If Earthshaker wants to be male, so be it. I don't care if he's trans since that would be freaking awesome because growing a beard that long is a FEAT.
Personally, I kind of find the faes be a very androgyne breed. That they probably have the fluidest definition on gender.
More on topic, I approve of this if the character is thought-through and not made hastily. A gender-fluid dragon who has a bit of an addiction to the genderchanging scroll/spell whichever it will be. Possibly they could be transmasculine since I personally feel that FTMs are more presented generally than MTFs. This would mean the NPC is a "manly" female and a manly male. It would also be a refreshing change from the cheery gay pink stereotypes. A buff genderchanging dragon selling scrolls would be cute. Possibly they could have 2 different images that change randomly few times a week?
Personally, I kind of find the faes be a very androgyne breed. That they probably have the fluidest definition on gender.
More on topic, I approve of this if the character is thought-through and not made hastily. A gender-fluid dragon who has a bit of an addiction to the genderchanging scroll/spell whichever it will be. Possibly they could be transmasculine since I personally feel that FTMs are more presented generally than MTFs. This would mean the NPC is a "manly" female and a manly male. It would also be a refreshing change from the cheery gay pink stereotypes. A buff genderchanging dragon selling scrolls would be cute. Possibly they could have 2 different images that change randomly few times a week?
The people who say that it wasn't good/wise/necessary to gender the gods forget that gender is largely a self-identified thing. Why would we deny the deities the right to define their own gender? If Earthshaker wants to be male, so be it. I don't care if he's trans since that would be freaking awesome because growing a beard that long is a FEAT.
Personally, I kind of find the faes be a very androgyne breed. That they probably have the fluidest definition on gender.
More on topic, I approve of this if the character is thought-through and not made hastily. A gender-fluid dragon who has a bit of an addiction to the genderchanging scroll/spell whichever it will be. Possibly they could be transmasculine since I personally feel that FTMs are more presented generally than MTFs. This would mean the NPC is a "manly" female and a manly male. It would also be a refreshing change from the cheery gay pink stereotypes. A buff genderchanging dragon selling scrolls would be cute. Possibly they could have 2 different images that change randomly few times a week?
Personally, I kind of find the faes be a very androgyne breed. That they probably have the fluidest definition on gender.
More on topic, I approve of this if the character is thought-through and not made hastily. A gender-fluid dragon who has a bit of an addiction to the genderchanging scroll/spell whichever it will be. Possibly they could be transmasculine since I personally feel that FTMs are more presented generally than MTFs. This would mean the NPC is a "manly" female and a manly male. It would also be a refreshing change from the cheery gay pink stereotypes. A buff genderchanging dragon selling scrolls would be cute. Possibly they could have 2 different images that change randomly few times a week?