NOTE: This post has been rewritten due to several misunderstandings about the motivation, tone, and intent behind it, which led to several derailing replies. If some of the earlier posts don't make sense when referring to this one, that's why.
Also, this thread is intended mainly for trans* people to discuss how they would want to see a trans* character represented. Objections like 'but why do we NEED a trans* character' are unhelpful and off-topic.
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Due to recent events, I have seen for myself just how many trans* people and allies play Flight Rising! This is great news to me, and now I believe that perhaps I won't be alone in wanting to make sure that we are a visible entity in the community. I would like to take the opportunity to point out the positive impact all of our combined voices made as of late, and I hope you all will join me in support of a trans* character for the same reason: visibility and progress.
On to the brainstorming!
With some dragons varying dramatically between sexes, there are a vast number of ways that a trans* character could be expressed. Perhaps a Tundra trimmed to fit her body image, or a femme Guardian with her beard cropped short? Maybe nothing needs be especially visually expressed, and she is simply referred to by her correct pronouns, with no further explanation given.
Maybe there's a Ridgeback with a faint seam at the base of his nose. Or, perhaps we have a dragon who changes gender presentations from one day to another, with pronouns to match.
Comments, suggestions?
NOTE: This post has been rewritten due to several misunderstandings about the motivation, tone, and intent behind it, which led to several derailing replies. If some of the earlier posts don't make sense when referring to this one, that's why.
Also, this thread is intended mainly for trans* people to discuss how they would want to see a trans* character represented. Objections like 'but why do we NEED a trans* character' are unhelpful and off-topic.
____
Due to recent events, I have seen for myself just how many trans* people and allies play Flight Rising! This is great news to me, and now I believe that perhaps I won't be alone in wanting to make sure that we are a visible entity in the community. I would like to take the opportunity to point out the positive impact all of our combined voices made as of late, and I hope you all will join me in support of a trans* character for the same reason: visibility and progress.
On to the brainstorming!
With some dragons varying dramatically between sexes, there are a vast number of ways that a trans* character could be expressed. Perhaps a Tundra trimmed to fit her body image, or a femme Guardian with her beard cropped short? Maybe nothing needs be especially visually expressed, and she is simply referred to by her correct pronouns, with no further explanation given.
Maybe there's a Ridgeback with a faint seam at the base of his nose. Or, perhaps we have a dragon who changes gender presentations from one day to another, with pronouns to match.
Comments, suggestions?
Hmmm... I think this would be really neat, but not sure how it could be done? Like, thinking of the dragon 'gods'... unless you know their pronouns, you can't really tell their gender (I really have no idea which ones are 'male' and which ones are 'female' ^^;).
I would almost be like 'let's make an androgynous NPC and have them periodically switch pronouns,' but again, most dragons (in my eyes) are pretty androgynous, aside from the few things you pointed out.
I do support this, but just trying to think of the best way to do it! Like, the best way to make it obvious that the NPC is trans* and not just an atypical male/female (as in, not looking like others of their species that are of that particular gender). Hmmm... for most species, pose is the only thing that seems to separate males and females. Ridgebacks have the different noses though, so that is the only one I can see as working.
Hmmm... I think this would be really neat, but not sure how it could be done? Like, thinking of the dragon 'gods'... unless you know their pronouns, you can't really tell their gender (I really have no idea which ones are 'male' and which ones are 'female' ^^;).
I would almost be like 'let's make an androgynous NPC and have them periodically switch pronouns,' but again, most dragons (in my eyes) are pretty androgynous, aside from the few things you pointed out.
I do support this, but just trying to think of the best way to do it! Like, the best way to make it obvious that the NPC is trans* and not just an atypical male/female (as in, not looking like others of their species that are of that particular gender). Hmmm... for most species, pose is the only thing that seems to separate males and females. Ridgebacks have the different noses though, so that is the only one I can see as working.
@
Lexx
I was sort of disappointed that they gendered the gods, personally.
Anyway, you're right. There's a tricky balance to be had in the design process. Subtlety versus readability, something akin to that. What you said about poses is also important, but harder to convey when constrained to a single image, because all of the NPCs will more than likely not conform to that gendered pose.
Physically, we have this to work with: male guardians have the beard; Tundra females lack manes, but have a beard; male Snappers are bigger; Pearlcatcher males have two horns, while females have one; and male Ridgebacks have the nose, as you said. So far, the NPCs have all been clothed, so I am assuming this one would be as well. Taking that into account, it is a lot easier to make it clear that their gender expression is different from what you could infer from their body alone.
For example, a Pearlcatcher trans lady could grow her mane long to cover up her filed down second horn and decorate it with flowers. A genderqueer femme Guardian could keep a short beard, but still wear cute blouses. (I don't want to stick firmly to the idea of binary trans* people, but it's hard to convey non-binary identity in images.) And, of course, the Ridgeback trans dude with the prosthetic nose. I could probably spin up ideas for this all night.
@
Lexx
I was sort of disappointed that they gendered the gods, personally.
Anyway, you're right. There's a tricky balance to be had in the design process. Subtlety versus readability, something akin to that. What you said about poses is also important, but harder to convey when constrained to a single image, because all of the NPCs will more than likely not conform to that gendered pose.
Physically, we have this to work with: male guardians have the beard; Tundra females lack manes, but have a beard; male Snappers are bigger; Pearlcatcher males have two horns, while females have one; and male Ridgebacks have the nose, as you said. So far, the NPCs have all been clothed, so I am assuming this one would be as well. Taking that into account, it is a lot easier to make it clear that their gender expression is different from what you could infer from their body alone.
For example, a Pearlcatcher trans lady could grow her mane long to cover up her filed down second horn and decorate it with flowers. A genderqueer femme Guardian could keep a short beard, but still wear cute blouses. (I don't want to stick firmly to the idea of binary trans* people, but it's hard to convey non-binary identity in images.) And, of course, the Ridgeback trans dude with the prosthetic nose. I could probably spin up ideas for this all night.
I support and find this awesome. That is all.
-Spins all over the place-
Apologies for not having anything better to add.
I support and find this awesome. That is all.
-Spins all over the place-
Apologies for not having anything better to add.
@
Skai
Ugh, I finally was able to login again! Sorry about the delay (I was impacted by the login glitch).
Wow, I seriously hadn't noticed any of those gender differences... I am way unobservant apparently *facepalm*. Though, admittedly, I stare at Faes and Spirals too much. XD
You have a good point about the clothing. I think it would be interesting if maybe a male ridgeback was in female clothing, was referred to as 'she', and could represent a trans* individual in transition still (again, excuse me if I am using the incorrect terminology). Like, she could make comments like 'the hormones haven't shrunk my nose enough yet' (since my headcannon is that those noses grow longer not with age, but sexual hormone maturity). That way, the NPC would not be just seen as a 'cross dresser' but as a trans* individual.
I also like both of your ideas with the ridgeback and guardian too. :)
This NPC definitely seems like one that would need a backstory though. Or else people may overlook (as in not realize) that they are trans*.
@
Skai
Ugh, I finally was able to login again! Sorry about the delay (I was impacted by the login glitch).
Wow, I seriously hadn't noticed any of those gender differences... I am way unobservant apparently *facepalm*. Though, admittedly, I stare at Faes and Spirals too much. XD
You have a good point about the clothing. I think it would be interesting if maybe a male ridgeback was in female clothing, was referred to as 'she', and could represent a trans* individual in transition still (again, excuse me if I am using the incorrect terminology). Like, she could make comments like 'the hormones haven't shrunk my nose enough yet' (since my headcannon is that those noses grow longer not with age, but sexual hormone maturity). That way, the NPC would not be just seen as a 'cross dresser' but as a trans* individual.
I also like both of your ideas with the ridgeback and guardian too. :)
This NPC definitely seems like one that would need a backstory though. Or else people may overlook (as in not realize) that they are trans*.
If the character is handled sensitively and responsibly, and isn't just added for positive PR, I'd be on board for this. I'm just a little uncomfortable and skeptical that this is being suggested (or would be implemented) as a knee jerk reaction to the recent drama.
I'm also not sure where hormones or prosthetics would fit into this. Where would hormones be coming from in the FR universe? There doesn't seem to be any medical structure, so it'd seem just very... out of place to add that part in.
If the character is handled sensitively and responsibly, and isn't just added for positive PR, I'd be on board for this. I'm just a little uncomfortable and skeptical that this is being suggested (or would be implemented) as a knee jerk reaction to the recent drama.
I'm also not sure where hormones or prosthetics would fit into this. Where would hormones be coming from in the FR universe? There doesn't seem to be any medical structure, so it'd seem just very... out of place to add that part in.
I'm going to say no support, for several reasons. One, I am very displeased by both parties of that debacle, and I personally would not like to see it memorialized, as the entire event bothered me deeply and I don't want to be forced to remember it. Secondly, because it's so soon after the fact, it seems like it would be a personal apology from the remaining Flight Rising administration, and as they really had nothing to do with this no apology should be necessary from them. (I'd be more amenable to this given time; as stated before, I don't want a character associated with any of this.) And, perhaps my most valid point, as there are very few noticeable differences between dragon genders I don't see how this could possibly work without coming across as absurd or demeaning, which is the last thing anyone wants to see happen here.
Hopefully retaining my neutral stance,
~ Azophel
I'm going to say no support, for several reasons. One, I am very displeased by both parties of that debacle, and I personally would not like to see it memorialized, as the entire event bothered me deeply and I don't want to be forced to remember it. Secondly, because it's so soon after the fact, it seems like it would be a personal apology from the remaining Flight Rising administration, and as they really had nothing to do with this no apology should be necessary from them. (I'd be more amenable to this given time; as stated before, I don't want a character associated with any of this.) And, perhaps my most valid point, as there are very few noticeable differences between dragon genders I don't see how this could possibly work without coming across as absurd or demeaning, which is the last thing anyone wants to see happen here.
Hopefully retaining my neutral stance,
~ Azophel
This could be combined with the idea going around for a gender-change scroll? Said NPC could, for some sort of fee, change the gender of a dragon? (with some restrictions on no. of dragons per day?) I imagine it could be done via either a purely cosmetic change, where only which image is displayed changes, or via a total switch. (or both?)
This could be combined with the idea going around for a gender-change scroll? Said NPC could, for some sort of fee, change the gender of a dragon? (with some restrictions on no. of dragons per day?) I imagine it could be done via either a purely cosmetic change, where only which image is displayed changes, or via a total switch. (or both?)
I love the idea of a trans* NPC; I don't love the idea of a trans* NPC [i]right now[/i]. It's too soon, you know?
Edit:
[quote name="Azelk" date="2013-07-19 05:02:52" url="main.php?p=mb&board=sug&page=1&id=599238#602902"]This could be combined with the idea going around for a gender-change scroll? Said NPC could, for some sort of fee, change the gender of a dragon? (with some restrictions on no. of dragons per day?) I imagine it could be done via either a purely cosmetic change, where only which image is displayed changes, or via a total switch. (or both?)[/quote]
Now THIS I can get behind.
I love the idea of a trans* NPC; I don't love the idea of a trans* NPC
right now. It's too soon, you know?
Edit:
This could be combined with the idea going around for a gender-change scroll? Said NPC could, for some sort of fee, change the gender of a dragon? (with some restrictions on no. of dragons per day?) I imagine it could be done via either a purely cosmetic change, where only which image is displayed changes, or via a total switch. (or both?)
Now THIS I can get behind.
[quote name="Azelk" date="2013-07-19 05:02:52" url="main.php?p=mb&board=sug&page=1&id=599238#602902"]This could be combined with the idea going around for a gender-change scroll? Said NPC could, for some sort of fee, change the gender of a dragon? (with some restrictions on no. of dragons per day?) I imagine it could be done via either a purely cosmetic change, where only which image is displayed changes, or via a total switch. (or both?)[/quote]
That sounds like an absolutely fantastic idea!! Supporting this in specific.
This could be combined with the idea going around for a gender-change scroll? Said NPC could, for some sort of fee, change the gender of a dragon? (with some restrictions on no. of dragons per day?) I imagine it could be done via either a purely cosmetic change, where only which image is displayed changes, or via a total switch. (or both?)
That sounds like an absolutely fantastic idea!! Supporting this in specific.
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Rule #1 of the Arcane Hunger Games: Don't Fall In Love
they/them/their
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