Flight Rising Discussion

[quote name="terraclae" date="2024-04-19 12:50:30" ] completely agree! while i adore fr's art style and have for nearly a decade now, it hasn't been lost on me that the most unpopular breeds are fatter or stouter or have more prominent features (ie ridgebacks). dusthides in part seem to be unpopular due to their stoutness and unconventional look and it is disheartening to see. i really hope new breeds play around more with shape language ^^ [/quote] Tbh for my part I don't care for Dusthides too much because they are too plain looking to me, not unconventional at all. The only really unique part of their look, to me, are the claws and maybe the large tails. If anything the disappointment for me is that most of the few "stocky" breeds on the site (Snappers, Obelisks, DHs) also all fall into the "cute" niche... What I wouldn't give for a serious or scary looking stocky breed. That aside, I agree with OP. It's an issue I've been having with the site lately that I'd been having trouble articulating to myself, and part of the reason why I've gone on indefinite hiatus. I appreciate all the work that's gone into things, but I've been gradually losing interest in what 's being released.

...huh. Yeah, like many others in this thread, this is kind of a revelation. I haven't really been that excited about ANY ancient, just because customization is limited by the no-apparel thing, and while I'm not complaining about that, that also happened to make it harder to realize the other things going on here. (Also I thought last year's ancients released SO FAST. They wanted Sandsurges to not be one of "the breeds" of the year since they're gem and honestly I don't think that was an important distinction to make. How much that's contributed to the designs I have no idea.) In one of my Discords we were discussing the possibility of the Dusthides having a big shell with their secondary on that rather than wings; why can't we have that? I made a joking suggestion of them having diggy claws big enough to put the secondary there, which, yes, is kind of silly, but would honestly still be cool. Like a therizinosaurus or something.

Also, yes yes YES to wanting at least one breed on here that goes full classic, medieval-painting, 80s-D&D, yes-still-technically-snakey-but-shh, Dragonology-lookin BEAST! Guardians are close, but can only take the look so far! (My ender dragon is a Skydancer wearing a Nocturne mask lol!)

@sixthdoctor are you implying that the fr breeds look the same if you look at just the silhouettes?? many of the animals in your silhouette image share the same basic shapes the same way many of the fr breeds do, and the fr silhouettes look unique as much as those do for both moderns and ancients. so I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove. also, regarding the claim that the original breeds had more variation in basic shapes from the first post. I don't see what you're talking about? The ancients seem to have as much variation as the older breeds, although I feel like you're choosing poses and outlining things in a biased way... like you say that, for example, gaolers and ridgebacks have more unique dragon shapes, while sandsurges and aethers are apparently just snakes with the same body proportions as auraboas?? because these all look like relatively similar proportions to me, or at least all equally close to snake shape...... [img]https://imgur.com/yhg2DUX.png[/img] [img]https://imgur.com/hIU3BnC.png[/img] [img]https://imgur.com/KlmqXqU.png[/img] [img]https://imgur.com/hGjmdcf.png[/img] unless you mean to include gaoler floof in their body proportions, I don't see how ridgeback and gaoler are supposed to have dramatically different shapes than the recent ancients. It just comes off as just not liking fr's art style to me tbh, I don't see any patterns of ancients being any less unique than older breeds

There is quiet a variety in wild life. Even looking at skeletons. There's varieties in species. I'm hoping more variety can come to dragons here. I am hoping with the upcoming Wind and Light ancients that we stay away from snake head forms. Maybe branch into birds. Give beaked dragons. I would like to see more wingless type of mythological dragons like Eastern Dragons. But that's just me.

I just want to see more variations. More body types. Etc.

[quote name="voidsnake" date="2024-04-20 14:00:37" ] @sixthdoctor are you implying that the fr breeds look the same if you look at just the silhouettes?? many of the animals in your silhouette image share the same basic shapes the same way many of the fr breeds do, and the fr silhouettes look unique as much as those do for both moderns and ancients. so I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove. [/quote] no, that's not what I'm implying. It's just that I had to grab the closest equivalent to what I meant off of google rather than spending 6 hours tracing the body shapes of a hundred animals to make my point. I don't know how else to express that many animals do, in fact, have a ton of variation in both face and body, because suggesting that in the first place just seems objectively silly to me. [quote]like you say that, for example, gaolers and ridgebacks have more unique dragon shapes, while sandsurges and aethers are apparently just snakes with the same body proportions as auraboas?? because these all look like relatively similar proportions to me, or at least all equally close to snake shape......[/quote] I think you're misunderstanding my point, which is not that any of the modern breeds, such as ridgebacks, are unique while, say, sandsurges aren't; it's that when you look at the art direction when the website started via the 10 original breeds - Fae, Guardians, Mirrors, Pearlcatchers, Ridgebacks, Tundras, Spirals, Imperials, Snappers, and Wildclaw - there is more variation in anatomy and face shape than the more recent character designs, which largely trend towards a thin, lithe shape, and my worries about what this direction might mean. I'm seriously not trying to deny any of the distinctions that these designs have - just pointing out that this website largely based around character creation and dressup doesn't have a wide variety of body types in the ways that matter to most people, and the disparity seems to be rapidly growing

Agreed! More body types wouldn't only help with visually having more variation and making the drayons interesting in unique ways, but I think it would also benefit lore, both the official one and for people who have lore clans or fandragons. I like pushing set rules and ideas in art, and even with how great FR is compared to other pet sites, I think it can make even more varied designs. Hope they take things like these into consideration for future art!

Also, thanks OP for the effort in making this thread! I think you put into words what lots of users were thinking but didn't know how to explain, and were clear in explaining for people who might not have thought about it before :) (at least from what I can tell after reading the thread)

[font=american gothic][size=4]Okay so I'm back! I decided to take a look at Undel's [url=https://imgur.com/a/Aq0vm7t]most "weird" dragons[/url] I could find, and I decided on these two 'rules' that dominate her art style beyond shading and inking and stuff. (Ping me if you want pictures of the full bodies) -Undel doesn't [i]exaggerate[/i], but is always stylized. Generally, no dragon of her features some extreme proportion or shape. Nothing is too round, too pointy, too short, too long, too straight, too zig-zagged. Closest thing I can use to describe is "comic book," with the visualization of cel-shaded superhero comics in mind.... except not Rob Liefeld or Frank Miller or anything really exaggerated like that. -Undel usually [i]mixes[/i] different animals together, rather than copy-pasting an animal completely. You might notice an eagle-like beak, or a camel-like nose, or a doglike forehead, but they will be mixed in with other species as well to create something more blended. This is seen best with the dragons I linked above which obviously take a lot of animal inspiration, including two which I forgot to link which is really bearlike and very dinosaurian. -Undel's most 'basic' head is a wedge shape of mid-to-long length, the eyes 3/4 to the back of the head, with a pointed end for a brain case and a pointed end for the surangular part of the jaw bones. This, of corpse, leaves the elephants in the rooms, Auraboas, Undertides, and Aethers, since Auras and Aethers are relatively exaggerated and based off a real animal, and Undertides are essentially ribbon eels with wings and reptilian eyes. You can see the contrast with the moderns based off animals like Obs, Nocturnes, Ridges, and Bogs, which are more blended. We can talk later about the art shift in FR but that's not for today. So, using these dragons as bases, I tried to draw some dragons trying to be as extremely close to the "basic" style I determined, but to follow the later Ancients, I tried to base them off animals! [img]https://i.imgur.com/8Xi8o1m.jpeg[/img] [img]https://i.imgur.com/pKGntxa.jpeg[/img]

I feel like this thread is just critiquing the art style, which feels.. rude. Suggestions of breeds or body shapes that we are lacking in would be good, but I don't think there are major trends towards snake shapes with recent designs, I think it's just a coincidence tbh. Like aside from auraboas and undertides which are obviously snake shapes, and aethers and dusthides have large tails as part of their designs so of course they end up with longer shapes, but otherwise the other most recent breeds are sandsurge, aberration, obelisks, and then other ancients. I feel like that's the same variation in body and head shape as the original breeds other than just snapper and fae which seem like they're designed around being different shapes from the rest of the breeds. Which just feels like a coincidence to me. I just feel like the trends are too small to say they're anything more than a coincidence from what the designs are based on, and also I think it's a bit rude if it's getting to the point where people are just criticizing the existing art style...

[quote name="voidsnake" date="2024-04-21 06:29:01" ] I feel like this thread is just critiquing the art style, which feels.. rude. Suggestions of breeds or body shapes that we are lacking in would be good, but I don't think there are major trends towards snake shapes with recent designs, I think it's just a coincidence tbh. Like aside from auraboas and undertides which are obviously snake shapes, and aethers and dusthides have large tails as part of their designs so of course they end up with longer shapes, but otherwise the other most recent breeds are sandsurge, aberration, obelisks, and then other ancients. I feel like that's the same variation in body and head shape as the original breeds other than just snapper and fae which seem like they're designed around being different shapes from the rest of the breeds. Which just feels like a coincidence to me. I just feel like the trends are too small to say they're anything more than a coincidence from what the designs are based on, and also I think it's a bit rude if it's getting to the point where people are just criticizing the existing art style... [/quote] I know there's a lot of etiquette in the art world surrounding critiques, but in the context of Flight Rising I think it's fair game as it is a product first and foremost. This is game content that the playerbase will pay for in some way (either by buying gems or being subjected to ads). And like, honestly I'm not really seeing how this thread is critiquing the art style. It's not like OP is saying the cell shading should be replaced with fine rendering or that things should be more realistic/stylized. Of course I am biased because I completely agree with this thread and am itching for new breeds that have more distinct body types and faces than the most recent releases, but that's just my two cents.

[quote name="voidsnake" date="2024-04-21 06:29:01" ] I feel like this thread is just critiquing the art style, which feels.. rude. Suggestions of breeds or body shapes that we are lacking in would be good, but I don't think there are major trends towards snake shapes with recent designs, I think it's just a coincidence tbh. Like aside from auraboas and undertides which are obviously snake shapes, and aethers and dusthides have large tails as part of their designs so of course they end up with longer shapes, but otherwise the other most recent breeds are sandsurge, aberration, obelisks, and then other ancients. I feel like that's the same variation in body and head shape as the original breeds other than just snapper and fae which seem like they're designed around being different shapes from the rest of the breeds. Which just feels like a coincidence to me. I just feel like the trends are too small to say they're anything more than a coincidence from what the designs are based on, and also I think it's a bit rude if it's getting to the point where people are just criticizing the existing art style... [/quote] consistency in a website's art style is not coincidences, it's art direction. and as people have already pointed out in this thread, criticising the art on a website where said art is the main appeal is valid and in many cases necessary. undel isn't a hobbyist putting their art online for fun, they're a professional whose art is monetised and used to make flightrising a profit. as such, the userbase has a right to respectfully discuss the site's art and note any trends they're noticing or changes they'd like to see. nobody in this thread has been rude or demeaning to the artists in any way. the staff have said that they're open to feedback and criticism of the art, so i don't see what the issue is. @Requacy i've never seen most of these undel arts before, the 4th looks so cool?? snarly spike with big sniffers... love the 3rd to last as well, now THAT'S a tough-looking chonky unit. i wish we had similar breeds on fr.