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Make Flight Rising better by sharing your ideas!
TOPIC | Breeding Dragons without Trading
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Whetever you can breed with another Flight at all is not something for me to decide, I was merely suggesting, that if it to be possible it wouldn't be something that you can spam. And I forgot to add that the Hatchlings you get will be of YOUR Flight, because I don't think it should be possible anyways to breed dragons of COMPLETE Opposite Flights, no matter how friendly they/their owners may be.
Whetever you can breed with another Flight at all is not something for me to decide, I was merely suggesting, that if it to be possible it wouldn't be something that you can spam. And I forgot to add that the Hatchlings you get will be of YOUR Flight, because I don't think it should be possible anyways to breed dragons of COMPLETE Opposite Flights, no matter how friendly they/their owners may be.
From the Site Overview: (I have bolded and italicized portions for emphasis)

"Flight Rising is a social web-based activity site featuring dragon breeding, adventuring, combat, and collecting. It puts you in control of your own clan of dragons, allowing you to control their mating habits, specialize their abilities and traits, and adorn them thousands of different ways with a variety of apparel. "

Okay, looking at the very first paragraph in the Site Overview section in the Encyclopedia I found some very interesting ideas about how they believed at the moment the site should be played.

Firstly, I italicized "social web-based activity" because that terminology reflects a desire to make this game into a "social" experience. "Social" experiences require interaction between players in a broad sense including but not limited to communication via forms and PMs. Dragon breeding currently does not reflect this clearly stated "social" ideal. Yes, you can trade babies and send your dragons to potential thieves in order to get more babies. But these means are dangerous and risky. What if the other person exalts or never returns your dragon? What if the eggs are never delivered because the player quit and your money is locked in their account? These fears, regardless of being real or imagined, very easily pin the user into a situation where being "social" with breeding is scary, uncomfortable, and too risky to engage in despite a desire to do so. If the site supported cross clan breedings it would actively back their own statement regarding wanting to run a "social" site. The lack of support for cross clan breeding is a broken promise on the part of the admins.

The second phrase I pointed out was "featuring dragon breeding." This site "featur[es] dragon breeding," not lore. Based on this very first crucial statement in the site overview that sets the stage for the entire rest of the site, breeding trumps lore. How is this a social site featuring breeding if you can't even breed with your friends or with other players?

The most important segment in this statement would be, " It puts you in control of your own clan of dragons, allowing you to control their mating habits." They said I'm in control of my own clan--why can I not make alliances with other clans? Is it the lore that stops me from having a boyfriend in the nature flight or a best friend in shadow flight? Why can I not create my own legacy like the opening lines promised? I was given "control of [my] own clan of dragons," I should be able to make theoretical alliances wherever I deemed it fit. Every clan is different and the options to play the game differently should always be here. Now, the phrase goes further by not only giving me"control of [my] own clan of dragons," but it also will " allow [me] to control their mating habits." And this is exactly what this suggestion is about. The ability to mate with dragons in other clans satisfies the promise that I can control my dragons' mating habits by allowing them to mate with any consenting dragon or even paying other people to let me have babies with their dragons. Features should never be limiting, but rather features should open new doors to different playstyles, allowing everyone to participate however they desire provided it's allowed in the ToS and not gamebreaking.

So, overall, I very, very, very strongly support this feature.
From the Site Overview: (I have bolded and italicized portions for emphasis)

"Flight Rising is a social web-based activity site featuring dragon breeding, adventuring, combat, and collecting. It puts you in control of your own clan of dragons, allowing you to control their mating habits, specialize their abilities and traits, and adorn them thousands of different ways with a variety of apparel. "

Okay, looking at the very first paragraph in the Site Overview section in the Encyclopedia I found some very interesting ideas about how they believed at the moment the site should be played.

Firstly, I italicized "social web-based activity" because that terminology reflects a desire to make this game into a "social" experience. "Social" experiences require interaction between players in a broad sense including but not limited to communication via forms and PMs. Dragon breeding currently does not reflect this clearly stated "social" ideal. Yes, you can trade babies and send your dragons to potential thieves in order to get more babies. But these means are dangerous and risky. What if the other person exalts or never returns your dragon? What if the eggs are never delivered because the player quit and your money is locked in their account? These fears, regardless of being real or imagined, very easily pin the user into a situation where being "social" with breeding is scary, uncomfortable, and too risky to engage in despite a desire to do so. If the site supported cross clan breedings it would actively back their own statement regarding wanting to run a "social" site. The lack of support for cross clan breeding is a broken promise on the part of the admins.

The second phrase I pointed out was "featuring dragon breeding." This site "featur[es] dragon breeding," not lore. Based on this very first crucial statement in the site overview that sets the stage for the entire rest of the site, breeding trumps lore. How is this a social site featuring breeding if you can't even breed with your friends or with other players?

The most important segment in this statement would be, " It puts you in control of your own clan of dragons, allowing you to control their mating habits." They said I'm in control of my own clan--why can I not make alliances with other clans? Is it the lore that stops me from having a boyfriend in the nature flight or a best friend in shadow flight? Why can I not create my own legacy like the opening lines promised? I was given "control of [my] own clan of dragons," I should be able to make theoretical alliances wherever I deemed it fit. Every clan is different and the options to play the game differently should always be here. Now, the phrase goes further by not only giving me"control of [my] own clan of dragons," but it also will " allow [me] to control their mating habits." And this is exactly what this suggestion is about. The ability to mate with dragons in other clans satisfies the promise that I can control my dragons' mating habits by allowing them to mate with any consenting dragon or even paying other people to let me have babies with their dragons. Features should never be limiting, but rather features should open new doors to different playstyles, allowing everyone to participate however they desire provided it's allowed in the ToS and not gamebreaking.

So, overall, I very, very, very strongly support this feature.
I wonder just how popular interclan breeding (and the related stud type services) will be in a couple months... However, I agree that people will organize these sorts of trades and send dragons (if possible) for these arrangements regardless of official support and there should be some way to do it safely. Currently the safest way is with collateral and I'm sure that is not very comforting for some people. [quote name="LuckyRare" date="2013-06-16 10:37:16" url="main.php?p=mb&board=sug&page=3&id=19662#87349"] Since breeding cooldown is to indicate [u]Dragons needing to take care of the egg/hatchling(s[/u]), why not [b]Lock[/b] the 2 dragons into the[b] "Dragon Meet"[/b] nest until the the eggs hatch(No Coliseum) and keep them in the Nest until hatchling grows up(Can do everything same as usual on your own Dragon's Lair page, they're just in the Joint nest). Select how the offspring will be divided[b] BEFORE[/b] breeding: Say "Uneven(1,3,5) Hatchling>Mother/Father". You only get to decide [u]How many[/u] hatchlings you get, which hatchlings you get is up to RNG. (You can always just trade later) It should require both users to input a password for[b] security[/b](No hackers locking out your dragons in a breeding with some random dragons). Perhaps make it [b]"seasonal"[/b], as in Dragons being able to breed with ones outside of their own clan once in 1 month(Commons)/2 Months(Uncommon)/3 months(Rare). If you want to breed outside your own Flight the Cooldown should AT LEAST double. The offspring you would get will be of your own clan, to make the option of breeding only for looks, rather than different Elements.[/quote] I would support this method for breeding between users. I think that the seasonal idea could be good, but using that as well as the coliseum lockout and doubling breeding cool down seems a bit too restrictive. Perhaps 2 of the 3 restrictions? The coliseum lockout and doubling breeding time OR the lockout and seasonal availability make the most sense to me. Having two types of timed breeding restrictions seems a little strong, but I suppose that interclan breeding may alter intended gameplay enough to warrant it. If a system like this is implemented I don't think that players should be limited to selecting a mate from their friends list or their own element, after all the idea is to make outside breeding safe no matter who the other player is. I think that any player should be allowed to make a deal with any other. The proposed restrictions placed on the dragons should be more than enough to deter people who are looking to take advantage of 'easier breeding'.
I wonder just how popular interclan breeding (and the related stud type services) will be in a couple months... However, I agree that people will organize these sorts of trades and send dragons (if possible) for these arrangements regardless of official support and there should be some way to do it safely. Currently the safest way is with collateral and I'm sure that is not very comforting for some people.
Since breeding cooldown is to indicate Dragons needing to take care of the egg/hatchling(s), why not Lock the 2 dragons into the "Dragon Meet" nest until the the eggs hatch(No Coliseum) and keep them in the Nest until hatchling grows up(Can do everything same as usual on your own Dragon's Lair page, they're just in the Joint nest).

Select how the offspring will be divided BEFORE breeding: Say "Uneven(1,3,5) Hatchling>Mother/Father". You only get to decide How many hatchlings you get, which hatchlings you get is up to RNG. (You can always just trade later)

It should require both users to input a password for security(No hackers locking out your dragons in a breeding with some random dragons).

Perhaps make it "seasonal", as in Dragons being able to breed with ones outside of their own clan once in 1 month(Commons)/2 Months(Uncommon)/3 months(Rare).

If you want to breed outside your own Flight the Cooldown should AT LEAST double. The offspring you would get will be of your own clan, to make the option of breeding only for looks, rather than different Elements.

I would support this method for breeding between users. I think that the seasonal idea could be good, but using that as well as the coliseum lockout and doubling breeding cool down seems a bit too restrictive. Perhaps 2 of the 3 restrictions? The coliseum lockout and doubling breeding time OR the lockout and seasonal availability make the most sense to me. Having two types of timed breeding restrictions seems a little strong, but I suppose that interclan breeding may alter intended gameplay enough to warrant it.

If a system like this is implemented I don't think that players should be limited to selecting a mate from their friends list or their own element, after all the idea is to make outside breeding safe no matter who the other player is. I think that any player should be allowed to make a deal with any other. The proposed restrictions placed on the dragons should be more than enough to deter people who are looking to take advantage of 'easier breeding'.
Shining Light Store Selling dragons. Closed for now.
I had not seen this thread before I posted my own "Breeding without Lending" which I will be deleting after this post. This is what I posted: [quote name="Linden" date="2013-06-17 21:12:38" url="main.php?p=mb&board=sug&page=1&id=102209#102209"]Have a button on the dragons profile to ask the other user if they would like to breed with one of your own dragon. Maybe with a fee that is set by the user that owns the dragon or like a pay what you want and the user can pick which they like best? So you eliminate the whole lending problem? Maybe even have the option of either having the one paying or asking gets all eggs or they split the number between the two. If an odd number than the one asking would get the odd egg. If this was already suggested, sorry~ EDIT: You can have an option to let the person being asked to set it as "Free" which will let them pick which dragon they like most. "For Treasure" or "For Jems"[/quote]
I had not seen this thread before I posted my own "Breeding without Lending" which I will be deleting after this post. This is what I posted:
Have a button on the dragons profile to ask the other user if they would like to breed with one of your own dragon. Maybe with a fee that is set by the user that owns the dragon or like a pay what you want and the user can pick which they like best? So you eliminate the whole lending problem? Maybe even have the option of either having the one paying or asking gets all eggs or they split the number between the two. If an odd number than the one asking would get the odd egg. If this was already suggested, sorry~

EDIT: You can have an option to let the person being asked to set it as "Free" which will let them pick which dragon they like most. "For Treasure" or "For Jems"
I would support some sort of breeding system that allows male and female dragons to be bred to dragons owned by other members.

With this being a breeding site even if "trading" dragons for breeding purposes is discouraged it will happen anyway. As a result some players will end up never getting their dragons back. Having some sort of breeding system in place would help protect players.

Also since linebreeding is not allowed I think some sort of system will need to be implemented so members can get unrelated lines without having to go buy an unrelated male or female. This will be needed for the rarer breeds such as Imperials who are priced higher and more difficult to come by. Trading hatclings isn't always an option if you only get one egg from a clutch.

While it would be lovely if we could get to know everyone and be able to trust each other to return dragons that is not going to happen. And since the TOS warns against trading and lending then some sort of public breeding system needs to be put in place to protect members and still allow them to enjoy the game and interact with other members in a safer manner.
I would support some sort of breeding system that allows male and female dragons to be bred to dragons owned by other members.

With this being a breeding site even if "trading" dragons for breeding purposes is discouraged it will happen anyway. As a result some players will end up never getting their dragons back. Having some sort of breeding system in place would help protect players.

Also since linebreeding is not allowed I think some sort of system will need to be implemented so members can get unrelated lines without having to go buy an unrelated male or female. This will be needed for the rarer breeds such as Imperials who are priced higher and more difficult to come by. Trading hatclings isn't always an option if you only get one egg from a clutch.

While it would be lovely if we could get to know everyone and be able to trust each other to return dragons that is not going to happen. And since the TOS warns against trading and lending then some sort of public breeding system needs to be put in place to protect members and still allow them to enjoy the game and interact with other members in a safer manner.
I think breeding within friend groups has already worked out with trading dragons to a person you trust. I don't think studding will be necessary. If you want to trade your dragons with a stranger it's you're own fault if you get scammed. This game is meant to be slow and calculating waiting for the right dragon to be bought or traded. I find it so much more tactical this way and far more enjoyable. Studding would just take all the fun out of it for me. If there is some sort of limit to it or to just provide it between people in your friend's list that would be more reasonable to me.
I think breeding within friend groups has already worked out with trading dragons to a person you trust. I don't think studding will be necessary. If you want to trade your dragons with a stranger it's you're own fault if you get scammed. This game is meant to be slow and calculating waiting for the right dragon to be bought or traded. I find it so much more tactical this way and far more enjoyable. Studding would just take all the fun out of it for me. If there is some sort of limit to it or to just provide it between people in your friend's list that would be more reasonable to me.
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People you trust can scam you too, though. Blaming users for wanting to trade without having to buy (because not every dragon you want to breed with is going to be available to own) is pretty not cool. And, uh...just because you play one way doesn't mean the entire site should have to?

Now that people who get scammed will be refused support, there has to be a way to do this safely. Otherwise people are just going to be driven away - because like Bramble said, people are still going to breed out of clan.
People you trust can scam you too, though. Blaming users for wanting to trade without having to buy (because not every dragon you want to breed with is going to be available to own) is pretty not cool. And, uh...just because you play one way doesn't mean the entire site should have to?

Now that people who get scammed will be refused support, there has to be a way to do this safely. Otherwise people are just going to be driven away - because like Bramble said, people are still going to breed out of clan.
Okay yea, saying that was kind of harsh of me. But I dunno I've just seen so many games where the market becomes stud central. And people would charge ridiculous amounts for rare genes that may not even show up in the offspring. I feel like studding can be easily taken advantage of and you still get the issue of having to pay a ton of treasure for a gene that you may not even get or colors you don't even want. It doesn't blend well with the canon of the story and for me it's not fun. I came to this site because it's not like every other breeding site, and if you add studding it will be like every other site with a ridiculous economy and elitists who stud there dragons for ridiculous prices.

And if you make the game easier for the few people that want it easier there is no point for the people who like the higher difficultly to play it with the difficulty. We don't have to play it the same way but with the studding suggestion you force me to play it with the easier difficulty. Why would I have the incentive to wait and collection gold for the dragon or gene that I want when I can just go and find someone who has a dragon with all the traits I want? Suddenly playing the game the way it was intended in suddenly fruitless and far to time consuming. I want to be able to play this game for several months and chip away at the progress. I don't understand why everyone seems to be in such a rush with all the game mechanics.
Okay yea, saying that was kind of harsh of me. But I dunno I've just seen so many games where the market becomes stud central. And people would charge ridiculous amounts for rare genes that may not even show up in the offspring. I feel like studding can be easily taken advantage of and you still get the issue of having to pay a ton of treasure for a gene that you may not even get or colors you don't even want. It doesn't blend well with the canon of the story and for me it's not fun. I came to this site because it's not like every other breeding site, and if you add studding it will be like every other site with a ridiculous economy and elitists who stud there dragons for ridiculous prices.

And if you make the game easier for the few people that want it easier there is no point for the people who like the higher difficultly to play it with the difficulty. We don't have to play it the same way but with the studding suggestion you force me to play it with the easier difficulty. Why would I have the incentive to wait and collection gold for the dragon or gene that I want when I can just go and find someone who has a dragon with all the traits I want? Suddenly playing the game the way it was intended in suddenly fruitless and far to time consuming. I want to be able to play this game for several months and chip away at the progress. I don't understand why everyone seems to be in such a rush with all the game mechanics.
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[quote name="Cyrilvamp" date="2013-06-18 06:54:20" url="main.php?p=mb&board=sug&page=3&id=19662#105176"]Why would I have the incentive to wait and collection gold for the dragon or gene that I want when I can just go and find someone who has a dragon with all the traits I want?[/quote] Most dragons with expensive genes likely already have regular breeding partners and are constantly on cooldown. So finding a suitable mate wouldn't exactly be easy, in many cases it'd be simpler to just stalk the sales for one. Cheaper too. It's not like some other sites where males can breed unlimited times. I don't think it'd make breeding significantly easier.
Why would I have the incentive to wait and collection gold for the dragon or gene that I want when I can just go and find someone who has a dragon with all the traits I want?
Most dragons with expensive genes likely already have regular breeding partners and are constantly on cooldown. So finding a suitable mate wouldn't exactly be easy, in many cases it'd be simpler to just stalk the sales for one. Cheaper too. It's not like some other sites where males can breed unlimited times.

I don't think it'd make breeding significantly easier.
I agree with @Iridien. If we are in charge of our clan then we should be able to breed with other users if we want.

A lot of the nay saying for implementing some sort of cross clan breeding ground seems to be tied up with lore. Which I find really strange as I've always considered lore more of a guide than the gospel on how you should play. If you want your clan to never have any cross breeding with another flight/clan because of lore, great, good for you. But that doesn't mean other users should be restricted because of it.

As for implementing, I think a Crossroads area (or even just adding a breeding option in Crossroads) would be best. Each parent gets an egg. Normal breeding cooldown. That way there is no squabbling over odd number eggs and it keeps the system from being abused. You can even keep it lore friendly by adding that sometimes clans need fresh blood. Which, given the inbreeding restrictions, they do.
I agree with @Iridien. If we are in charge of our clan then we should be able to breed with other users if we want.

A lot of the nay saying for implementing some sort of cross clan breeding ground seems to be tied up with lore. Which I find really strange as I've always considered lore more of a guide than the gospel on how you should play. If you want your clan to never have any cross breeding with another flight/clan because of lore, great, good for you. But that doesn't mean other users should be restricted because of it.

As for implementing, I think a Crossroads area (or even just adding a breeding option in Crossroads) would be best. Each parent gets an egg. Normal breeding cooldown. That way there is no squabbling over odd number eggs and it keeps the system from being abused. You can even keep it lore friendly by adding that sometimes clans need fresh blood. Which, given the inbreeding restrictions, they do.
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