General Discussion

1477

December 23, 2023 21:20:31

What is the most interesting colored pearl to you guys that you've discovered so far? Mine is Industrial Complex, Bright Blue.

It talks about a factory that makes bone masks, and I find this interesting because there are creatures in game who have masks that are made of hard material: Vultures and Elite Scavengers (As well as King Scavenger).

In the case of Vultures, it could make sense, but it leaves a lot of questions. How did Vultures figure out how to make the masks? How do they make the masks with those weird limbs they have? Why do they wear them? Are they even smart enough to make masks? Or is it just a coincidence, and Vultures' masks are natural growths?

In the case of Elite Scavengers, them making the masks is much more plausible. They had to obtain the masks somehow, as they clearly aren't natural body parts. All vultures have masks, whether they're King Vultures or not (not counting Miros Vultures because they're so rare, and honestly, are they even pure Vultures, or are they Miros Bird/Vulture hybrids?), but only Elite Scavs have masks. Maybe it's something Elites earn (if Elites aren't just straight up a subspecies? Maybe it's both?

Also, Scav masks are in unique shapes. Initially I thought they were just carved Vulture masks, but then realized that's impossible because some of them are in shapes that wouldn't be possible to create by carving a Vulture mask (Horned, Sad, and Spiked Mask, as well as the King Scavenger's Mask).

The pearl dialogue says that before the masks were made in factories, Monks made them using bone plaster. The name "bone plaster" implies they're made from, well, bone. A scavenger would likely be dexterous and smart enough to make a bone mask. Plus, they have two reasons to: They ward off predators, and they show their status to other scavengers, according to the wiki.

I wonder if Scavengers learning to make the masks was connected to the ancients somehow? Them knowing how to and also using them for a similar purpose (a show of their status) seems a little more than coincidental, but how would this have happened? The ancients were likely long gone before Scavengers evolved into what they are now, so was the recipe just passed down from generation to generation that long?

Anyway, enough of me rambling. What's your favorite colored pearl, and do you have any theories or headcanons about the lore based off of the information from it?

Baltic | He/Him | FR Time +2

please come talk to me about ISAT that game has a hold on me rn

man, I've been trying to beat all of the challenges in RW:DP because at this point I'm just unlocking everything and. Saint. What a pathetic man.

The "can't throw spears thing" isn't what I'm talking about, either. Or how all lizard bites are lethal. Everything bullies this creature and I don't know how I feel about it. Pop Bugs/Snails don't only stun him, they make him spasm on the ground for 8 seconds. Squidcadas can not only send Saint flying, but getting bumped into by one temporarily gives similar effects to starve exhaustion (can't stand up, random passing out). Considering the fact that both Snails and Squidcadas have a chance to survive lizard bites and have some sort of way to attack, this means that Saint is weaker than the literal insects. He's at the very bottom of the food chain, on the same level as batflies because he can't even eat those. Like, the normal, standard slugcat like Surv or Monk is near the bottom, but they're not just nature's punching bag, unlike this guy.

All of this is really annoying in gameplay, for obvious reasons, but really funny/interesting for his characterization. Everyone portrays Saint as this god-like overpowered creature, and he is...when he has ascension powers. But most of the time, he doesn't have ascension powers. So 90% of the time, he's supposedly this higher being who's made to set everyone, including the dying gods, free from the cycles, but staying alive is even more of a struggle for him than it is for a regular slugcat. The only thing that keeps him from being a walking pantry for predators is his tongue. Honestly, him being named after the passage where you don't use spears and having multiple parallels to a bodhisattva is ironic because both of those things include choice. Saint doesn't choose not to harm anyone, he is physically in incapable of doing so.

I kind of want to see a RW AU where Saint secretly (or not so secretly) holds some resentment surrounding this because, like, he's incapable of defending himself except for when he finally reaches Karma 10. He's a joke to everything else. Saint's apparently going to be a savior, but he can't even save himself, not from the cycles, or from mundane threats.

BalticDeerOwl

1477

December 30, 2023 10:19:07

man, I've been trying to beat all of the challenges in RW:DP because at this point I'm just unlocking everything and. Saint. What a pathetic man.

The "can't throw spears thing" isn't what I'm talking about, either. Or how all lizard bites are lethal. Everything bullies this creature and I don't know how I feel about it. Pop Bugs/Snails don't only stun him, they make him spasm on the ground for 8 seconds. Squidcadas can not only send Saint flying, but getting bumped into by one temporarily gives similar effects to starve exhaustion (can't stand up, random passing out). Considering the fact that both Snails and Squidcadas have a chance to survive lizard bites and have some sort of way to attack, this means that Saint is weaker than the literal insects. He's at the very bottom of the food chain, on the same level as batflies because he can't even eat those. Like, the normal, standard slugcat like Surv or Monk is near the bottom, but they're not just nature's punching bag, unlike this guy.

All of this is really annoying in gameplay, for obvious reasons, but really funny/interesting for his characterization. Everyone portrays Saint as this god-like overpowered creature, and he is...when he has ascension powers. But most of the time, he doesn't have ascension powers. So 90% of the time, he's supposedly this higher being who's made to set everyone, including the dying gods, free from the cycles, but staying alive is even more of a struggle for him than it is for a regular slugcat. The only thing that keeps him from being a walking pantry for predators is his tongue. Honestly, him being named after the passage where you don't use spears and having multiple parallels to a bodhisattva is ironic because both of those things include choice. Saint doesn't choose not to harm anyone, he is physically in incapable of doing so.

I kind of want to see a RW AU where Saint secretly (or not so secretly) holds some resentment surrounding this because, like, he's incapable of defending himself except for when he finally reaches Karma 10. He's a joke to everything else. Saint's apparently going to be a savior, but he can't even save himself, not from the cycles, or from mundane threats.

Baltic | He/Him | FR Time +2

please come talk to me about ISAT that game has a hold on me rn

Last edited on Dec 30, 2023 10:19:30 by BalticDeerOwl

[quote name="BalticDeerOwl" date="2023-12-30 10:19:07" ] Pop Bugs/Snails don't only stun him, they make him spasm on the ground for 8 seconds. Squidcadas can not only send Saint flying, but getting bumped into by one temporarily gives similar effects to starve exhaustion (can't stand up, random passing out). Considering the fact that both Snails and Squidcadas have a chance to survive lizard bites and have some sort of way to attack, this means that Saint is weaker than the literal insects. He's at the very bottom of the food chain, on the same level as batflies because he can't even eat those. Like, the normal, standard slugcat like Surv or Monk is near the bottom, but they're not just nature's punching bag, unlike this guy. [/quote] To think of it like that, Saint really did get the short end of the stick. Saint would probably gain his powers and go on a giant power trip from how starved he is to harm others after how much others have harmed him

AmberAxolotl223

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December 30, 2023 12:24:34

BalticDeerOwl wrote on 2023-12-30 10:19:07:

Pop Bugs/Snails don't only stun him, they make him spasm on the ground for 8 seconds. Squidcadas can not only send Saint flying, but getting bumped into by one temporarily gives similar effects to starve exhaustion (can't stand up, random passing out). Considering the fact that both Snails and Squidcadas have a chance to survive lizard bites and have some sort of way to attack, this means that Saint is weaker than the literal insects. He's at the very bottom of the food chain, on the same level as batflies because he can't even eat those. Like, the normal, standard slugcat like Surv or Monk is near the bottom, but they're not just nature's punching bag, unlike this guy.

To think of it like that, Saint really did get the short end of the stick. Saint would probably gain his powers and go on a giant power trip from how starved he is to harm others after how much others have harmed him

[quote name="AmberAxolotl223" date="2023-12-30 12:24:34" ] [quote name="BalticDeerOwl" date="2023-12-30 10:19:07" ] Pop Bugs/Snails don't only stun him, they make him spasm on the ground for 8 seconds. Squidcadas can not only send Saint flying, but getting bumped into by one temporarily gives similar effects to starve exhaustion (can't stand up, random passing out). Considering the fact that both Snails and Squidcadas have a chance to survive lizard bites and have some sort of way to attack, this means that Saint is weaker than the literal insects. He's at the very bottom of the food chain, on the same level as batflies because he can't even eat those. Like, the normal, standard slugcat like Surv or Monk is near the bottom, but they're not just nature's punching bag, unlike this guy. [/quote] To think of it like that, Saint really did get the short end of the stick. Saint would probably gain his powers and go on a giant power trip from how starved he is to harm others after how much others have harmed him [/quote] honestly though, would he even be able to keep his powers? its never clarified how exactly Saint's ascension powers work, but I always thought of them as being directly tied to your karmic status, seeing as you only get them once you reach Karma 10, the level indicative of having gotten rid of all five Natural Urges. And seeing as both violence and survival are Natural Urges, would using his powers to get revenge cause him to lose his powers, since doing so would be giving into his anger? or is it a thing where once you have ascension abilities you keep them forever? Saint in general is just. More questions than answers. -Where did he come from? -How did he get to where he is when we start the campaign, with so little karma? -Does the ending mean Saint is stuck in a time loop, or did he just go back to that spot when he became an echo? -As shown by Arti, giving into a natural urge extensively will make your karma unable to go past a certain point until you talk to an echo, so did Saint do something to get locked at Karma 2-which, by the way, represents the Natural Urge of lust/reproduction? If so, what? -How did Saint become so highly attuned to the cycles? This can't really have been a natural thing, because there's a slugcat in a similar situation, Monk, who is also weak but in tune with the cycles. But the most Monk gets is extra karma flowers and better rep with everything right off the bat (the second thing is likely a result of Monk being more in tune with the karmic system than most because Monk is extremely young, so how would they have raised their rep prior to the campaign?). So how did Saint gain this knowledge of how to so totally remove the Natural Urges that he essentially became a god? Was the time he does this in the campaign even his first time doing this? Did he just accidentally stumble across the ascension ability???

BalticDeerOwl

1477

December 31, 2023 23:45:46

AmberAxolotl223 wrote on 2023-12-30 12:24:34:

BalticDeerOwl wrote on 2023-12-30 10:19:07:

Pop Bugs/Snails don't only stun him, they make him spasm on the ground for 8 seconds. Squidcadas can not only send Saint flying, but getting bumped into by one temporarily gives similar effects to starve exhaustion (can't stand up, random passing out). Considering the fact that both Snails and Squidcadas have a chance to survive lizard bites and have some sort of way to attack, this means that Saint is weaker than the literal insects. He's at the very bottom of the food chain, on the same level as batflies because he can't even eat those. Like, the normal, standard slugcat like Surv or Monk is near the bottom, but they're not just nature's punching bag, unlike this guy.

To think of it like that, Saint really did get the short end of the stick. Saint would probably gain his powers and go on a giant power trip from how starved he is to harm others after how much others have harmed him

honestly though, would he even be able to keep his powers? its never clarified how exactly Saint's ascension powers work, but I always thought of them as being directly tied to your karmic status, seeing as you only get them once you reach Karma 10, the level indicative of having gotten rid of all five Natural Urges. And seeing as both violence and survival are Natural Urges, would using his powers to get revenge cause him to lose his powers, since doing so would be giving into his anger? or is it a thing where once you have ascension abilities you keep them forever?

Saint in general is just. More questions than answers.

-Where did he come from?

-How did he get to where he is when we start the campaign, with so little karma?

-Does the ending mean Saint is stuck in a time loop, or did he just go back to that spot when he became an echo?

-As shown by Arti, giving into a natural urge extensively will make your karma unable to go past a certain point until you talk to an echo, so did Saint do something to get locked at Karma 2-which, by the way, represents the Natural Urge of lust/reproduction? If so, what?

-How did Saint become so highly attuned to the cycles? This can't really have been a natural thing, because there's a slugcat in a similar situation, Monk, who is also weak but in tune with the cycles. But the most Monk gets is extra karma flowers and better rep with everything right off the bat (the second thing is likely a result of Monk being more in tune with the karmic system than most because Monk is extremely young, so how would they have raised their rep prior to the campaign?). So how did Saint gain this knowledge of how to so totally remove the Natural Urges that he essentially became a god? Was the time he does this in the campaign even his first time doing this? Did he just accidentally stumble across the ascension ability???

Baltic | He/Him | FR Time +2

please come talk to me about ISAT that game has a hold on me rn

@balticDeerOwl
first off, your profile dragon is really cool!
Secondly, the reason why saint is so special is because he's the triple affirmative that acts as the answer for ~~life the universes and everything~~ the question that the iterators were given to solve.
the triple affirmative states that

an answer to the solution has been found
the solution is portable
itis generally applicable (ie wont create echoes)

once saint gets their powers, we can see that they meet all of those goals. This leads us to believe she is a purposed organism like rivulet and spearmaster created specifically by an iterator. I doubt it was by the original iterator that was able to transcend (i forgot their name, my bad) but because of the time that passed after that iterator goes silent, it was probably another iterator that came to similar conclusions. Because of this id think that saint would keep their powers no matter what. Also if we're going by th ebuhdist definition of karma, you would gain karma by fulfilling the role placed on you (like being the best you you could be). I think this is why spearmaster is able to transcend in spite of being as violent as they are, they are simply fulfilling their role as an animal that needs to eat. saint's role would be to transcend other creatures, so i dont think them going overboard with it would cause them to lose karma or be locked out of it. i also dont think they'd do that maliciously, they're just an animal living in a hostile environment, if they're entuned with the karma system i think they would understand that and would see that their role was to be at the bottom of the food chain and to be eaten. when saint is going around ascending, i dont think hes doing it maliciously, i just think hes fulfilling his role

Garfpee

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January 01, 2024 21:34:14

@balticDeerOwl
first off, your profile dragon is really cool!
Secondly, the reason why saint is so special is because he's the triple affirmative that acts as the answer for ~~life the universes and everything~~ the question that the iterators were given to solve.
the triple affirmative states that

an answer to the solution has been found
the solution is portable
itis generally applicable (ie wont create echoes)

once saint gets their powers, we can see that they meet all of those goals. This leads us to believe she is a purposed organism like rivulet and spearmaster created specifically by an iterator. I doubt it was by the original iterator that was able to transcend (i forgot their name, my bad) but because of the time that passed after that iterator goes silent, it was probably another iterator that came to similar conclusions. Because of this id think that saint would keep their powers no matter what. Also if we're going by th ebuhdist definition of karma, you would gain karma by fulfilling the role placed on you (like being the best you you could be). I think this is why spearmaster is able to transcend in spite of being as violent as they are, they are simply fulfilling their role as an animal that needs to eat. saint's role would be to transcend other creatures, so i dont think them going overboard with it would cause them to lose karma or be locked out of it. i also dont think they'd do that maliciously, they're just an animal living in a hostile environment, if they're entuned with the karma system i think they would understand that and would see that their role was to be at the bottom of the food chain and to be eaten. when saint is going around ascending, i dont think hes doing it maliciously, i just think hes fulfilling his role

Just joined this thread!! Agressively want to discuss any and all speculative biology on rain world creatures, lmao. Feel free to ping me if you wanna rant :)

TheWorshipOnes

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January 01, 2024 21:48:27

Just joined this thread!! Agressively want to discuss any and all speculative biology on rain world creatures, lmao. Feel free to ping me if you wanna rant :)

He/Him
Trans/Pansexual
18
Work full-time, not on until evenings!

@Garfpee

Thank you!

Yeah, I also don't think that Sliver of Straw (iterator who sent out the Triple Affirmative) made Saint, mainly because Saint is adapted to the cold, and it'd make no sense to make a creature adapted to a world that won't exist yet for thousands (maybe millions) of cycles. Saint is a triple affirmative, but not the one Sliver found (even though challenge 70 would have you think otherwise (because for some reason the devs decided to troll people by giving us information that looks like it could be canon when it isn't)).

And yeah, Canon Saint probably wouldn't maliciously ascend things, I agree. I was just kind of "what-if"-ing, y'know?

BalticDeerOwl