the mistakes were
1. retiring scattersights in the first place
they would've been fine as a regular year-round coli drop imo.
2. waiting so long to find a solution
in 3 years, an entire economy was built around scattersights. one that wouldnt have had the time to form if the staff had communicated better immediately after the eyepocalypse.
but at the end of the day, im just stoked i can give my dragons special eyes now. the solution wasn't the best and definitely not the quickest, but im grateful that it was implemented at all because it improves my personal experience on the site :)
Rehauled the system to work like genes do.
Rehauled the system to work like genes do.
As part of a Nesting Ground update, as outlined in
this old suggestion I made.
Basically, the more you use the Nesting Grounds, the more a Nesting Grounds Currency would pile up, and you'd be able to create Eye Vials using a large amount of that currency, approximately weighted around the average time it would take to get that eye type.
You could also get Eye Vials if you "nested" your dragons but chose to double your currency and not have eggs (cooldowns on dragons and nest would still apply). The game's RNG would run, and if a Special eye type would have hatched, you get a vial instead!
You could also get a nest enhancement that let you pass down eye types without items (solving the Unnatural eye types being left out issue).
Perhaps it still would have crashed the Gen 1 market and made Scattersights redundant, but it would have taken some time before anyone saved up enough to get the vials, and there would have been other distractions to use that currency for as well, making them be rare at least for a while.
As part of a Nesting Ground update, as outlined in
this old suggestion I made.
Basically, the more you use the Nesting Grounds, the more a Nesting Grounds Currency would pile up, and you'd be able to create Eye Vials using a large amount of that currency, approximately weighted around the average time it would take to get that eye type.
You could also get Eye Vials if you "nested" your dragons but chose to double your currency and not have eggs (cooldowns on dragons and nest would still apply). The game's RNG would run, and if a Special eye type would have hatched, you get a vial instead!
You could also get a nest enhancement that let you pass down eye types without items (solving the Unnatural eye types being left out issue).
Perhaps it still would have crashed the Gen 1 market and made Scattersights redundant, but it would have taken some time before anyone saved up enough to get the vials, and there would have been other distractions to use that currency for as well, making them be rare at least for a while.
From the start, I would have left a way for players to apply all eye types to existing dragons that didn't involve a retired item. One of the big issues with the eye update was that existing dragons were left out. I also wanted eyes to work like genes did.
This update was quite out of the blue. I could be misremembering the announcements for the original update, but I thought the team seemed somewhat adamant that the system was how they wanted it, and it wouldn't change. It's not a good idea to speak in absolutes when it comes to features, because you never know when a change to the feature is needed.
I just did not enjoy the pure luck aspect of it, because that's not how the game was when I joined. I've always appreciated the control I had over breeding projects. Fodder Primals were of no interest to me when I hatched them, because I've never wanted Primals for the sake of a Primal. I like the way they look, not their rarity. If it wasn't on my specific project hatch, it was a disappointment.
I probably would have been fine if this update actually introduced an apparel item for all of the eye types for those that did just like the looks of the eyes. It would have avoided the "Primal is no longer special," as well as the "natural vs. vialed" debates. An apparel item obviously doesn't make the dragon a Primal, so there'd be no issue there.
Slightly off topic, but is Multi-Gaze on the same rarity level as Primal? I dislike Multi-Gaze with a passion, but poor Multi-Gaze has been overshadowed by Primal with this update, lol
From the start, I would have left a way for players to apply all eye types to existing dragons that didn't involve a retired item. One of the big issues with the eye update was that existing dragons were left out. I also wanted eyes to work like genes did.
This update was quite out of the blue. I could be misremembering the announcements for the original update, but I thought the team seemed somewhat adamant that the system was how they wanted it, and it wouldn't change. It's not a good idea to speak in absolutes when it comes to features, because you never know when a change to the feature is needed.
I just did not enjoy the pure luck aspect of it, because that's not how the game was when I joined. I've always appreciated the control I had over breeding projects. Fodder Primals were of no interest to me when I hatched them, because I've never wanted Primals for the sake of a Primal. I like the way they look, not their rarity. If it wasn't on my specific project hatch, it was a disappointment.
I probably would have been fine if this update actually introduced an apparel item for all of the eye types for those that did just like the looks of the eyes. It would have avoided the "Primal is no longer special," as well as the "natural vs. vialed" debates. An apparel item obviously doesn't make the dragon a Primal, so there'd be no issue there.
Slightly off topic, but is Multi-Gaze on the same rarity level as Primal? I dislike Multi-Gaze with a passion, but poor Multi-Gaze has been overshadowed by Primal with this update, lol
Later is better than never, and with the way the community felt about alternative methods for eyes being vastly different, I can see why they took a while to figure out the best way to deal with this. Ofc it’s no excuse for it taking three god damn years to happen, but I sincerely believe this was the best way to make a solution for the majority of the player base. Bringing back scattersights still would’ve made the people who already have a lot of scattersights bitter, and the players who don’t want to have to rely on a gamble for eyes would also be angry, and I feel like that’s most of the player base tbh. Exalting for eyes would’ve made people even more mad at people who exalted their dragons. Eye vials as coliseum drops would’ve been tedious, and already the site shouldn’t rely on coliseum as much as it does. Inherited eye types still wouldn’t solve the dilemma for old dragons.
As for scatter sights, the item itself is a gamble. You gambled with buying them, it sucks that everyone lost that gamble but this update will be better for the site in the long run.
Later is better than never, and with the way the community felt about alternative methods for eyes being vastly different, I can see why they took a while to figure out the best way to deal with this. Ofc it’s no excuse for it taking three god damn years to happen, but I sincerely believe this was the best way to make a solution for the majority of the player base. Bringing back scattersights still would’ve made the people who already have a lot of scattersights bitter, and the players who don’t want to have to rely on a gamble for eyes would also be angry, and I feel like that’s most of the player base tbh. Exalting for eyes would’ve made people even more mad at people who exalted their dragons. Eye vials as coliseum drops would’ve been tedious, and already the site shouldn’t rely on coliseum as much as it does. Inherited eye types still wouldn’t solve the dilemma for old dragons.
As for scatter sights, the item itself is a gamble. You gambled with buying them, it sucks that everyone lost that gamble but this update will be better for the site in the long run.
I get too many pings, please PM if you ping and I don’t respond
Although I'm still bitter over my primal collection, I agree that eyes shouldn't be completely random. People should be able to design a dream dragon with special eyes and have some hope of achieving it.
However, whatever you do to the eye system, you were going to make three groups of people unhappy: people who were hoarding scattersights, people who had bought and used a large number of expensive scattersights, and primal collectors.
For the first group, give scattersights a high hoardsale price. It wouldn't be difficult to code. I don't know what the LAH was for scattersights before Eyepocalypse, but you don't need to match it. Even if they only hoardsold for 100kT, that's still a decent chunk of cash. It's better than having a super-rare and valuable item suddenly turn to trash.
At the same time, put something really good up on Roundsey to soak up some of the extra treasure the scattersights will put into the economy.
For the second and third groups, you can't give them their money back. But you can maintain the value of the dragons they have by making primal vials a whole lot harder to get hold of. They should be either gem marketplace, or rare coli drops.
Although I'm still bitter over my primal collection, I agree that eyes shouldn't be completely random. People should be able to design a dream dragon with special eyes and have some hope of achieving it.
However, whatever you do to the eye system, you were going to make three groups of people unhappy: people who were hoarding scattersights, people who had bought and used a large number of expensive scattersights, and primal collectors.
For the first group, give scattersights a high hoardsale price. It wouldn't be difficult to code. I don't know what the LAH was for scattersights before Eyepocalypse, but you don't need to match it. Even if they only hoardsold for 100kT, that's still a decent chunk of cash. It's better than having a super-rare and valuable item suddenly turn to trash.
At the same time, put something really good up on Roundsey to soak up some of the extra treasure the scattersights will put into the economy.
For the second and third groups, you can't give them their money back. But you can maintain the value of the dragons they have by making primal vials a whole lot harder to get hold of. They should be either gem marketplace, or rare coli drops.
[quote name="Drakessis" date="2021-05-08 23:57:51" ]
I would just bring back Scattersights, because that's a very arbitrary restriction on staff's part imo. Pull a NotN/mini-holiday and just make them drop like mad in the coli a couple times a year. That way, you keep the appeal of the RNG factor for people, and the general rarity of special eyes, but everyone has access to them and an opportunity to profit off of Scattersights. And do it way sooner than three or so years after the update.
People would still have lost money, unfortunately, but I think that just about solves every other issue people take with the new update. Though it'd probably drive the gem/treasure ratio up, which would happen inevitably anyways.
[/quote]
This. No one really had problems with the Scattersights aside from the fact that you could roll the same eye type multiple times on a dragon, and even that wouldn't be super annoying if there was an easy way to obtain the item consistently. Even if they just threw the scattersights in the treasure marketplace for about the price of the uncommon or unusual vials I think it would have preserved the challenge of getting special eye types. Of course if they did go that route they would also likely have to add any new natural eye types to the vial as well (such as goat and the two new tints added in the update).
Drakessis wrote on 2021-05-08 23:57:51:
I would just bring back Scattersights, because that's a very arbitrary restriction on staff's part imo. Pull a NotN/mini-holiday and just make them drop like mad in the coli a couple times a year. That way, you keep the appeal of the RNG factor for people, and the general rarity of special eyes, but everyone has access to them and an opportunity to profit off of Scattersights. And do it way sooner than three or so years after the update.
People would still have lost money, unfortunately, but I think that just about solves every other issue people take with the new update. Though it'd probably drive the gem/treasure ratio up, which would happen inevitably anyways.
This. No one really had problems with the Scattersights aside from the fact that you could roll the same eye type multiple times on a dragon, and even that wouldn't be super annoying if there was an easy way to obtain the item consistently. Even if they just threw the scattersights in the treasure marketplace for about the price of the uncommon or unusual vials I think it would have preserved the challenge of getting special eye types. Of course if they did go that route they would also likely have to add any new natural eye types to the vial as well (such as goat and the two new tints added in the update).
[quote name=@Lagara date="2021-05-09 07:01:46" ]
Slightly off topic, but is Multi-Gaze on the same rarity level as Primal? I dislike Multi-Gaze with a passion, but poor Multi-Gaze has been overshadowed by Primal with this update, lol[/quote]
Multi-Gaze is statistically the rarest eye type. It is only slightly rarer than Primal. Since Primal appears to be more popular in general by its appearance, it leaves Multi-Gaze behind.
@
Lagara wrote on 2021-05-09 07:01:46:
Slightly off topic, but is Multi-Gaze on the same rarity level as Primal? I dislike Multi-Gaze with a passion, but poor Multi-Gaze has been overshadowed by Primal with this update, lol
Multi-Gaze is statistically the rarest eye type. It is only slightly rarer than Primal. Since Primal appears to be more popular in general by its appearance, it leaves Multi-Gaze behind.
Make the vials drop from breeding, everytime you breed an eye tpye (exept common, that still in mp) you get an extra vial (tradable) for that eye type into your hoard.
Eyes still rare, but you can get them for dragons that hatched without the wanted type by buying a vial from another player or by breeding the eye type and getting the vial directly into your hoard.
Other suggetsions:
They can introduce vials that drop only from coli (maybe even some that only drop in the festival weeks, with an unique look for the festival that is currently up, but return every year), maybe even some that drop random after hatching a nest (and are unique and only obtainable that way, maybe even nest element specific so that you would need to trade with other players to obtain others), they could make special ones drop from the different gathering proffesions, swipp could offer special ones, pinkerton could get a rare chance to give a vial that is only obtainable from him, the marketplace could get MP exclusive vials and so on... i love the possibilitys that the update brought...also i think not everyone has the patience to hoard that much treasure to be able to buy a primal vial...so making it drop from hatching could solve that (besides the unique vial drops mentioned above)...
I love the possible ways that opened from the future (if the text above sounds familiar to you...well that is because i already posted it in another thread)...
[b]also if you want to see some really cool eye suggetsions[/b] (and colour suggestions) from other players then check out the links in my forum signature, these players have really great art skills and ideas, maybe leave a comment for them. [emoji=special eyes size=1][emoji=special eyes size=1]
Make the vials drop from breeding, everytime you breed an eye tpye (exept common, that still in mp) you get an extra vial (tradable) for that eye type into your hoard.
Eyes still rare, but you can get them for dragons that hatched without the wanted type by buying a vial from another player or by breeding the eye type and getting the vial directly into your hoard.
Other suggetsions:
They can introduce vials that drop only from coli (maybe even some that only drop in the festival weeks, with an unique look for the festival that is currently up, but return every year), maybe even some that drop random after hatching a nest (and are unique and only obtainable that way, maybe even nest element specific so that you would need to trade with other players to obtain others), they could make special ones drop from the different gathering proffesions, swipp could offer special ones, pinkerton could get a rare chance to give a vial that is only obtainable from him, the marketplace could get MP exclusive vials and so on... i love the possibilitys that the update brought...also i think not everyone has the patience to hoard that much treasure to be able to buy a primal vial...so making it drop from hatching could solve that (besides the unique vial drops mentioned above)...
I love the possible ways that opened from the future (if the text above sounds familiar to you...well that is because i already posted it in another thread)...
also if you want to see some really cool eye suggetsions (and colour suggestions) from other players then check out the links in my forum signature, these players have really great art skills and ideas, maybe leave a comment for them.
1/ A way to distinguish vial eyes and natural-born eyes
2/ A new set of primal eyes (and maybe muti-gaze) with different designs (like waterfall eyes for water, leaf eyes for nature, star eyes for arcane, ember eyes for fire, etc...) to satisfy the needs of fancy elemental eyes without complete destroy the old market.
1/ A way to distinguish vial eyes and natural-born eyes
2/ A new set of primal eyes (and maybe muti-gaze) with different designs (like waterfall eyes for water, leaf eyes for nature, star eyes for arcane, ember eyes for fire, etc...) to satisfy the needs of fancy elemental eyes without complete destroy the old market.
