I agree with a lot of what this thread is saying and a lot of the ideas mentioned.
With regard to OOF support, I thought of one system fix that might decrease that and has some interesting lore potential. What if there was a bonus in exalting dragons to their own deity. For example a nature dragon exalted to the Gladekeeper was worth more treasure and dom points that if it were exalted to the Plaguebringer. This would make OOF dragons worth less to the pushing flight and more to their own.
Yes you could still farm fodder out OOF to train up but this requires a lot more coordination and you are still fundamentally limited by the number of nests in your flight
I agree with a lot of what this thread is saying and a lot of the ideas mentioned.
With regard to OOF support, I thought of one system fix that might decrease that and has some interesting lore potential. What if there was a bonus in exalting dragons to their own deity. For example a nature dragon exalted to the Gladekeeper was worth more treasure and dom points that if it were exalted to the Plaguebringer. This would make OOF dragons worth less to the pushing flight and more to their own.
Yes you could still farm fodder out OOF to train up but this requires a lot more coordination and you are still fundamentally limited by the number of nests in your flight
i do think the current system is working as written - but not as intended. i don't think staff really expected at launch that: 1) that there would be such a disproportionate flight population [especially with just one flight being such a major outlier] in order to even create this kind of situation, or 2) that people would be willing/able to game this system on such a mass scale as to bring about the current nearly perma-dom placement that earth is enjoying. which, yes, i absolutely am one of those people that likes to participate in dom heavily when i get the time, and i moved to earth because i wanted to feel rewarded for it (and also in no small part because i very nearly became a geologist, but tbh if it weren't for the dom there's also a very high chance that i would be in nature).
i also think that perhaps, a way to motivate people across the flights would be to add some very small, simple, individual rewards. we've currently got a reallllly big divide between: 1) people who really, really, really like dom and people who don't care and/or participate at all. the best way to get more participation is not to motivate the people who already care more, it's to motivate the people who currently don't care/participate. the biggest reason i wanted to be in earth for dom was to feel like my efforts meant something. like i wasn't just yeeting pixels into the void without getting any of the larger rewards offered. you absolutely do still get the literal currency reward for exalting dragons, but what i'm guessing would be more effective would be adding reward checkpoints. i'm an absolute sucker for those things. exalt 5 dragons this week? give me something like that little seafood chest thing they had during the last mini fest that gives 2-5 random food items of a specific type - and a sense of anticipation to see what you'll get and the satisfaction of opening a chest. exalt 20 dragons this week? awesome, maybe throw out an iron treasure chest or something like that. it's got a little weight to it, but not a huge amount, and that could change depending on what's in it. they don't have to be huge rewards, and should probably only go up to 50-100 dragons per week, but it's a nice little bonus for those who are going to do it anyway, and it very well might be a deciding factor/motivator for people who wouldn't have done it previously, which would potentially greatly expand the class of casual exalters.
i do think the current system is working as written - but not as intended. i don't think staff really expected at launch that: 1) that there would be such a disproportionate flight population [especially with just one flight being such a major outlier] in order to even create this kind of situation, or 2) that people would be willing/able to game this system on such a mass scale as to bring about the current nearly perma-dom placement that earth is enjoying. which, yes, i absolutely am one of those people that likes to participate in dom heavily when i get the time, and i moved to earth because i wanted to feel rewarded for it (and also in no small part because i very nearly became a geologist, but tbh if it weren't for the dom there's also a very high chance that i would be in nature).
i also think that perhaps, a way to motivate people across the flights would be to add some very small, simple, individual rewards. we've currently got a reallllly big divide between: 1) people who really, really, really like dom and people who don't care and/or participate at all. the best way to get more participation is not to motivate the people who already care more, it's to motivate the people who currently don't care/participate. the biggest reason i wanted to be in earth for dom was to feel like my efforts meant something. like i wasn't just yeeting pixels into the void without getting any of the larger rewards offered. you absolutely do still get the literal currency reward for exalting dragons, but what i'm guessing would be more effective would be adding reward checkpoints. i'm an absolute sucker for those things. exalt 5 dragons this week? give me something like that little seafood chest thing they had during the last mini fest that gives 2-5 random food items of a specific type - and a sense of anticipation to see what you'll get and the satisfaction of opening a chest. exalt 20 dragons this week? awesome, maybe throw out an iron treasure chest or something like that. it's got a little weight to it, but not a huge amount, and that could change depending on what's in it. they don't have to be huge rewards, and should probably only go up to 50-100 dragons per week, but it's a nice little bonus for those who are going to do it anyway, and it very well might be a deciding factor/motivator for people who wouldn't have done it previously, which would potentially greatly expand the class of casual exalters.
I agree it'd be really nice to have more individual rewards for exalting dragons! Like the tiered chest exalting rewards per week mentioned by @/dayliqht, I also wonder what other people would think about maybe giving Roundsey tickets per [amount of dragons exalted], or even host a second special site raffle where you can only get tickets by exalting (or where tickets cost extra, but exalting gives you "free" tickets or smth). Maybe exalting could have a very very small, random chance to award Breed Change or Gene scrolls, according to the dragon you exalted? Maybe you could only get those scrolls from the daily exalt bonus? Seriously just spitballing, but I'd love some more personal rewards for exalting as well!
I agree it'd be really nice to have more individual rewards for exalting dragons! Like the tiered chest exalting rewards per week mentioned by @/dayliqht, I also wonder what other people would think about maybe giving Roundsey tickets per [amount of dragons exalted], or even host a second special site raffle where you can only get tickets by exalting (or where tickets cost extra, but exalting gives you "free" tickets or smth). Maybe exalting could have a very very small, random chance to award Breed Change or Gene scrolls, according to the dragon you exalted? Maybe you could only get those scrolls from the daily exalt bonus? Seriously just spitballing, but I'd love some more personal rewards for exalting as well!
I really also like the suggestion about exalting being more "personal", by having a randomized blurb of what your dragon does after exalting and maybe occasionally sending you a small trinket (nothing valuable, but something like that would be fun!)
I also will always like the idea of a dom shop. For someone like me who already exalts quite a bit, it gives me a chance to get some nice things or make some extra money, and it could be a nice incentive for other players to try exalting if they don't. Also, even if you don't win dom you can still get something. Because considering what the rewards for dom are like vs the costs... large pushes are not at all worth it, especially if you lose.
I think one big problem with the dom rewards is that the most valuable of them (the MP and lair expansion discount) is functionally useless if you are broke from dom. If you want to take advantage of it, you will have to be sitting on a lot of treasure (especially if you're going for lair expansions. I'm trying to stockpile a couple million t by Trickmurk for this reason), but if everyone in a flight hoards their treasure instead of using it to fund OOF and raffle prizes... that push is going nowhere fast.
I really also like the suggestion about exalting being more "personal", by having a randomized blurb of what your dragon does after exalting and maybe occasionally sending you a small trinket (nothing valuable, but something like that would be fun!)
I also will always like the idea of a dom shop. For someone like me who already exalts quite a bit, it gives me a chance to get some nice things or make some extra money, and it could be a nice incentive for other players to try exalting if they don't. Also, even if you don't win dom you can still get something. Because considering what the rewards for dom are like vs the costs... large pushes are not at all worth it, especially if you lose.
I think one big problem with the dom rewards is that the most valuable of them (the MP and lair expansion discount) is functionally useless if you are broke from dom. If you want to take advantage of it, you will have to be sitting on a lot of treasure (especially if you're going for lair expansions. I'm trying to stockpile a couple million t by Trickmurk for this reason), but if everyone in a flight hoards their treasure instead of using it to fund OOF and raffle prizes... that push is going nowhere fast.
[quote name="FrostedKnight" date="2021-01-29 18:13:40" ]
Would love to see some kind of dom overhaul. I love doing dom but I feel like no matter how hard my flight and I try or how much I exalt there is no chance of ever winning because earth always just wins without hardly any effort. Even if it was just something like having it so a single flight could only win once a month would be a blessing because at least then other flights could have a shot and maybe then it might become worthwhile to try and go for dom and we could see that dom culture I've heard of return.
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Fire is pretty small though, there's no way that JUST the size difference is keeping your flight from getting Dom when much bigger flights can manage to win. If anything, Fire *should* be hot on Earth's heels, if dom benefits small flights as much as people say it does.
Does anyone have the numbers on how many planned conquests and profit pushes there were last year and how many times Earth ended up winning instead? Earth gets dom if no one else pushes, but I want to say whenever there's something planned they drop to second or third place (depending if it's a battle or a single flight) But don't hold me to that, gotta find the actual numbers ^^
EDIT: This covers it pretty well https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T7vwKXDfKUv5P3wPhlX7IS_RrxLGPotic4GS9yQcX2w/edit#gid=2082165399
Every time someone conquests, Earth does not beat them. If small flights profit push, Earth does not beat them. Larger flights profit pushing is a bit of a toss up. Ofcourse, profit pushes can really vary in intensity and participation.
In general, Earth takes whatever spot is left open by lack of competition.
To me this falls under "Don't let your icecream melt, while you count someone else's sprinkles"
FrostedKnight wrote on 2021-01-29 18:13:40:
Would love to see some kind of dom overhaul. I love doing dom but I feel like no matter how hard my flight and I try or how much I exalt there is no chance of ever winning because earth always just wins without hardly any effort. Even if it was just something like having it so a single flight could only win once a month would be a blessing because at least then other flights could have a shot and maybe then it might become worthwhile to try and go for dom and we could see that dom culture I've heard of return.
Fire is pretty small though, there's no way that JUST the size difference is keeping your flight from getting Dom when much bigger flights can manage to win. If anything, Fire *should* be hot on Earth's heels, if dom benefits small flights as much as people say it does.
Does anyone have the numbers on how many planned conquests and profit pushes there were last year and how many times Earth ended up winning instead? Earth gets dom if no one else pushes, but I want to say whenever there's something planned they drop to second or third place (depending if it's a battle or a single flight) But don't hold me to that, gotta find the actual numbers ^^
EDIT: This covers it pretty well
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T7vwKXDfKUv5P3wPhlX7IS_RrxLGPotic4GS9yQcX2w/edit#gid=2082165399
Every time someone conquests, Earth does not beat them. If small flights profit push, Earth does not beat them. Larger flights profit pushing is a bit of a toss up. Ofcourse, profit pushes can really vary in intensity and participation.
In general, Earth takes whatever spot is left open by lack of competition.
To me this falls under "Don't let your icecream melt, while you count someone else's sprinkles"
Um, if Earth had a sudden influx of ...exuberant players? Like, enough to make them a larger flight...
Um, if Earth had a sudden influx of ...exuberant players? Like, enough to make them a larger flight...
Would love to see more penalties for placing. Even if it's third. With those advantages, needs to come disadvantages and cooldowns.
If there ever was a time that Earth has not placed at least third in the last three years, I have not seen it.
Would love to see more penalties for placing. Even if it's third. With those advantages, needs to come disadvantages and cooldowns.
If there ever was a time that Earth has not placed at least third in the last three years, I have not seen it.
I'm sure Earth players work hard for Dominance but I don't think they work so much harder than everyone else that they deserve 20x the Dom bonuses of the next most dom-active flights. Staff couldn't have predicted people migrating en-masse to game the system yet here we are. It's about time things were addressed; nobody wants to participate in Dom anymore when there's only one flight where a player's individual effort has an impact.
I'm sure Earth players work hard for Dominance but I don't think they work so much harder than everyone else that they deserve 20x the Dom bonuses of the next most dom-active flights. Staff couldn't have predicted people migrating en-masse to game the system yet here we are. It's about time things were addressed; nobody wants to participate in Dom anymore when there's only one flight where a player's individual effort has an impact.
I dunno if this will be seen, but, What if Dom only counted people actively exalting that week, instead of everyone who's logged in the past two weeks?
There could be a personal weekly reward, like "fill up this bar by exalting 10 dragons and get a special chest", and only people who completed that challenge during the week get counted for Dom.
Maybe you get a token from that chest, like Joxar's crate gives, but for a Dom shop with unique scenes or skins.
I dunno if this will be seen, but, What if Dom only counted people actively exalting that week, instead of everyone who's logged in the past two weeks?
There could be a personal weekly reward, like "fill up this bar by exalting 10 dragons and get a special chest", and only people who completed that challenge during the week get counted for Dom.
Maybe you get a token from that chest, like Joxar's crate gives, but for a Dom shop with unique scenes or skins.
[quote name="Shegrasi" date="2021-03-15 05:48:26" ]
I dunno if this will be seen, but, What if Dom only counted people actively exalting that week, instead of everyone who's logged in the past two weeks?
There could be a personal weekly reward, like "fill up this bar by exalting 10 dragons and get a special chest", and only people who completed that challenge during the week get counted for Dom.
Maybe you get a token from that chest, like Joxar's crate gives, but for a Dom shop with unique scenes or skins.
[/quote]
All this would do is FURTHER bias it toward flights that have large numbers of daily exalters, and discourage casual exalters. If you only have time during hte week to exalt 7 dragons, why bother? Meanwhile players who regularly exalt 10 dragons a day regardless of whether their flight is pushing would just keep doing their thing.
Shegrasi wrote on 2021-03-15 05:48:26:
I dunno if this will be seen, but, What if Dom only counted people actively exalting that week, instead of everyone who's logged in the past two weeks?
There could be a personal weekly reward, like "fill up this bar by exalting 10 dragons and get a special chest", and only people who completed that challenge during the week get counted for Dom.
Maybe you get a token from that chest, like Joxar's crate gives, but for a Dom shop with unique scenes or skins.
All this would do is FURTHER bias it toward flights that have large numbers of daily exalters, and discourage casual exalters. If you only have time during hte week to exalt 7 dragons, why bother? Meanwhile players who regularly exalt 10 dragons a day regardless of whether their flight is pushing would just keep doing their thing.
Help I'm trapped in a signature!
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