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Flight Rising Discussion

Discuss everything and anything Flight Rising.
TOPIC | anyone notice this FR artist thing?
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lots of good points here

its sad but there's not anything we can do directly about undercharging artists, and the fact there's no easier ways to regularly bring in large amounts of treasure also plays into this. with treasure's extremely low worth, actually making it worth more or easier to obtain would probably seriously ruin FR's user shop economy. :/

but i do really agree with @SwiftIsHere and @LordJeanliness:
if you can, and if you want to, overpay artists that you feel are undercharging! pay what you think their art is worth, or at least tip them! it really helps them out and makes them feel more confident!

@WolfTears
not something i'm getting upset over, i just find myself a bit concerned sometimes with the fact artists are literally charging less around a dollar for art that is VERY high quality. good for the buyers, not so good for the artists. its just fake currency. fake currency does that. it bugs me.
it bugs me even more knowing a big cause of artists undercharging is due to low confidence which is something that seems really, really common in young artists specifically, idk. as an artist myself it just puts me off, but this is a game about breeding and dressing up dragons, so.
lots of good points here

its sad but there's not anything we can do directly about undercharging artists, and the fact there's no easier ways to regularly bring in large amounts of treasure also plays into this. with treasure's extremely low worth, actually making it worth more or easier to obtain would probably seriously ruin FR's user shop economy. :/

but i do really agree with @SwiftIsHere and @LordJeanliness:
if you can, and if you want to, overpay artists that you feel are undercharging! pay what you think their art is worth, or at least tip them! it really helps them out and makes them feel more confident!

@WolfTears
not something i'm getting upset over, i just find myself a bit concerned sometimes with the fact artists are literally charging less around a dollar for art that is VERY high quality. good for the buyers, not so good for the artists. its just fake currency. fake currency does that. it bugs me.
it bugs me even more knowing a big cause of artists undercharging is due to low confidence which is something that seems really, really common in young artists specifically, idk. as an artist myself it just puts me off, but this is a game about breeding and dressing up dragons, so.
eros
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It’s mainly because of the market. You gotta do what you gotta do to get that dragon cash (or irl cash). I think it just takes time for a person to slowly develop themselves and be more confident in their work to step out of the mold and to value their work more.

When I started selling art (fr was the first ever place I sold art, at the age of 13) I used to sell it for around 10k a pop. My art was bad back then so I thought the price was justified, and other people priced themselves that low as well. But after a few years and some time (continued selling stuff on fr, took a break, did real work, focused on building my art brand), you slowly become more confident. Little by little you raise your price. It’s just a sense of perspective and growth. A lot of artists are young, I think they’ll find a way to adjust their prices and value their art more through time. It’s a learning process ^v^

One of the main fears though, for any artist, is losing people that are interested in your work. I understand people are scared that no one would order from them if they rose their prices, but keeping it low simply let’s other artists find more reason to devalue themselves.
It’s mainly because of the market. You gotta do what you gotta do to get that dragon cash (or irl cash). I think it just takes time for a person to slowly develop themselves and be more confident in their work to step out of the mold and to value their work more.

When I started selling art (fr was the first ever place I sold art, at the age of 13) I used to sell it for around 10k a pop. My art was bad back then so I thought the price was justified, and other people priced themselves that low as well. But after a few years and some time (continued selling stuff on fr, took a break, did real work, focused on building my art brand), you slowly become more confident. Little by little you raise your price. It’s just a sense of perspective and growth. A lot of artists are young, I think they’ll find a way to adjust their prices and value their art more through time. It’s a learning process ^v^

One of the main fears though, for any artist, is losing people that are interested in your work. I understand people are scared that no one would order from them if they rose their prices, but keeping it low simply let’s other artists find more reason to devalue themselves.
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hrrrg I'm scared to make my art more expensive ;_; But people have been really nice to me, and encouraged my to raise my prices a bit c: And given tips as well! it really DOES help with the self-worth "problem" so starting from next year I'll charge 150kt/g /1.5USD for a portrait c': (instead of 100 which is my price right now)
hrrrg I'm scared to make my art more expensive ;_; But people have been really nice to me, and encouraged my to raise my prices a bit c: And given tips as well! it really DOES help with the self-worth "problem" so starting from next year I'll charge 150kt/g /1.5USD for a portrait c': (instead of 100 which is my price right now)
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Sometimes even professional artists who make a good deal of money selling their art or adoptables will use sites like this to blow off steam. They don't really care if they are getting paid real currency because they are doing it for fun or for practice. Sometimes doing commissions is a way of keeping their art skills active during a dry spell.

Some artists are just really generous and enjoy making people happy over their own monetary gain. Some even use it as advertising for their off site art shops.

As for those who charge low because of low self esteem, they should be gaining confidence over time. If people show a lot of interest in their art and continue to pay extra for it or tell them their art is worth more, then that also helps build confidence.
Sometimes even professional artists who make a good deal of money selling their art or adoptables will use sites like this to blow off steam. They don't really care if they are getting paid real currency because they are doing it for fun or for practice. Sometimes doing commissions is a way of keeping their art skills active during a dry spell.

Some artists are just really generous and enjoy making people happy over their own monetary gain. Some even use it as advertising for their off site art shops.

As for those who charge low because of low self esteem, they should be gaining confidence over time. If people show a lot of interest in their art and continue to pay extra for it or tell them their art is worth more, then that also helps build confidence.
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@wolftears
Agreed! I’ve taken a break from doing big projects and making art to post on social media. I returned back to fr for a quick break, and honestly drawing dragons again is such a nice breather, regardless of the pay. It’s just nice to be able to relax and work through art block.

And some people really are just naturally generous and kind ^v^
@wolftears
Agreed! I’ve taken a break from doing big projects and making art to post on social media. I returned back to fr for a quick break, and honestly drawing dragons again is such a nice breather, regardless of the pay. It’s just nice to be able to relax and work through art block.

And some people really are just naturally generous and kind ^v^
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Oh yes pet sites in general have an issue with artists being severely underpaid and I personally think it's a huge issue when young and inexperienced artists undercharge heavily
Not only do they not get their time's worth, it creates a wrong idea of acceptable pricing amongst buyers
I've been yelled at wayyy back for charging 20kT for a small pixel adopt.
20kT.
At this point I've given up on set pricing and have instead begun to offer PWYW comms where I'm allowed to take as much liberty as I like with given prompt/reference in return for making it a more affordable deal (1000g and up)
I got no reason picking up my pen for less, unless I wanna gift someone something.
I don't blame younger artists or inexperienced ones for undercharging because of confidence issues, I understand, but sadly it does feed a bad culture of people thinking art is worth next to nothing, imo.
Oh yes pet sites in general have an issue with artists being severely underpaid and I personally think it's a huge issue when young and inexperienced artists undercharge heavily
Not only do they not get their time's worth, it creates a wrong idea of acceptable pricing amongst buyers
I've been yelled at wayyy back for charging 20kT for a small pixel adopt.
20kT.
At this point I've given up on set pricing and have instead begun to offer PWYW comms where I'm allowed to take as much liberty as I like with given prompt/reference in return for making it a more affordable deal (1000g and up)
I got no reason picking up my pen for less, unless I wanna gift someone something.
I don't blame younger artists or inexperienced ones for undercharging because of confidence issues, I understand, but sadly it does feed a bad culture of people thinking art is worth next to nothing, imo.
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[quote name="kiryuchan" date="2019-11-22 01:19:40" ] flight rising artists seriously undercharge [/quote] Because if you're just starting out on commissions and charging what you honestly deserve for your effort, you will have no costumers. Unless you have a decent amount of popularity, high prices will scare people away. I know because I constantly suffer this.
kiryuchan wrote on 2019-11-22 01:19:40:
flight rising artists seriously undercharge

Because if you're just starting out on commissions and charging what you honestly deserve for your effort, you will have no costumers. Unless you have a decent amount of popularity, high prices will scare people away. I know because I constantly suffer this.
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1. There are a HUGE amount of artists here on FR. HUGE. People have choices coming out of their ears, all of whom are interested in drawing the exact same things. You're not running into "I'll only draw Goku" and "Invader Zim and angels only" and "I'm good at mammal furries but not other ones". Everyone here has the exact same content base, which means competition is unbelievably fierce across every skill level. It's supply and demand, to some extent.

If you have three bakeries in the space of a mile, it's possible that they each might manage to make a decent living with loaves priced at $5, $20, and $50. If only one of them serves marbled rye, and you really want some, you're gonna have to pay whichever price it costs.

If there are twenty-one bakeries in the space of a mile, and sixteen of them sell a variation on marbled rye, it is extremely unlikely that the bakery selling marbled rye loaves for $50 is going to sell as much of it as the ones that are whipping loaves out at $5 bucks a pop, no matter how good that $50 loaf is is--and twenty loaves a month at five bucks a pop is more cash in hand than one loaf at fifty every three months. Pricing lower to make up the difference through quantity sold is an actual economic tactic in the real world.

Now substitute "Coatls" for "marbled rye." and make it at least a few hundred bakeries. That's FR.

2. I have almost never seen a pet site artist actually get what their art is worth in real life. This is because it would take massive amounts of either F2P or premium currency. That 3,000 gems you mention as being closer to "ample pay" for a finished piece? That's only $30. You've already missed the mark by at least 70-170 dollars for what I've seen around as fandom pricing, and at least a couple hundred more if you want to really start getting into actual value.

Most players do not have 30 million treasure laying around. Most players do not have 30,000 gems laying around. And if you think getting people to save up for real life commissions can be hard, wait until you try it on a website that literally thrives on the idea of multi-part impulse purchases kept constantly available, like FR. How many people crave Light Sprites for years and years but never own more than a couple of thousand gems or a couple of million treasure at once? How many people make posts showing off their two million treasure savings?

Plus, a lot of potentially earned in-game currency rests on the whims of the RNG and the other players and it takes a whole heck of a lot longer to earn than real life cash. If you decide to go to work IRL for 8 hours, you're going to get the same pay for each hour, and you know every hour is going to pay off. If you Coli grind for 8 hours, you have no guarantee you're going to get the same value in drops each hour. You also have no guarantee that what drops is going to be worth the same thing day in and day out to the other players who also have limited and unstable income and are making similar decisions. So it seems bigger than it really is as a currency.

How long will it take you to earn 30,000,000 treasure for that piece of polished, colored, dynamic art with a background you want? Are you 100% sure you won't get distracted or need to purchase something else and set yourself back even longer? Are you 100% sure you're going to still own the dragon you're getting it for by the time you get there? You could always drop $300 real life dollars on gems, or skip the middleman and commission them with the money itself. Do you actually want to do that/have the ability to do that, or does it just sound nice in theory and you'd rather pay with treasure? And if it's the second one, again: how long will it take you to earn 30,000,000 treasure?

How many more pieces could someone waiting on a single person to earn 30,000,000 treasure have done if they charged half that? A quarter of that? A tenth of that? Could they have made more than 30,000,000 in that same time by charging less? Does that mean they'll get what they're saving for much sooner and avoid their own increased spending costs? Are they personally okay with knowing they're not getting every penny they're actually worth on every piece?

Some artists choose to lower costs because it at least means they'll get steady business and be able to buy things on the site. I'd love to get 1000 gems for each of my {Bogsneak} {adoptables}. But I couldn't even sell them when they were 300--and it's not like they're stick figures. So they're lower. At least I move them now, when I'm open. My hopes don't buy the stuff I need to get on FR. Treasure and gems do.

======

Is FR's art pricing scene the most ideal situation for an FR artist? Heck no. Should they ideally be able to get exactly what they want? Yes, of course. Art is a luxury, and it is a skill that requires a lot of time to practice, and it does take a chunk of time to complete a piece. It definitely has a higher value than what it's given here on FR, no matter what it is or how good it is.

But to some extent, points 1 and 2 are things every artist here has to deal with when choosing what they're asking for from customers. Every one of them has to make a decision based on these things, whether they know that's why or not. And a lot of times, the answer to it is going to be "I can take the hit."

If you want artists to get more, then give them more. Immediate problem solved! But the chances those 16 marbled rye sellers are all going to demand $50 for their loaves becomes extremely tiny the instant even one of them sees that he'll pay his bank loan sooner than the others if he charges $45... and that's before getting into even more complex matters like subjectivity, self-esteem, and doing art cheaper for fun/practice.
1. There are a HUGE amount of artists here on FR. HUGE. People have choices coming out of their ears, all of whom are interested in drawing the exact same things. You're not running into "I'll only draw Goku" and "Invader Zim and angels only" and "I'm good at mammal furries but not other ones". Everyone here has the exact same content base, which means competition is unbelievably fierce across every skill level. It's supply and demand, to some extent.

If you have three bakeries in the space of a mile, it's possible that they each might manage to make a decent living with loaves priced at $5, $20, and $50. If only one of them serves marbled rye, and you really want some, you're gonna have to pay whichever price it costs.

If there are twenty-one bakeries in the space of a mile, and sixteen of them sell a variation on marbled rye, it is extremely unlikely that the bakery selling marbled rye loaves for $50 is going to sell as much of it as the ones that are whipping loaves out at $5 bucks a pop, no matter how good that $50 loaf is is--and twenty loaves a month at five bucks a pop is more cash in hand than one loaf at fifty every three months. Pricing lower to make up the difference through quantity sold is an actual economic tactic in the real world.

Now substitute "Coatls" for "marbled rye." and make it at least a few hundred bakeries. That's FR.

2. I have almost never seen a pet site artist actually get what their art is worth in real life. This is because it would take massive amounts of either F2P or premium currency. That 3,000 gems you mention as being closer to "ample pay" for a finished piece? That's only $30. You've already missed the mark by at least 70-170 dollars for what I've seen around as fandom pricing, and at least a couple hundred more if you want to really start getting into actual value.

Most players do not have 30 million treasure laying around. Most players do not have 30,000 gems laying around. And if you think getting people to save up for real life commissions can be hard, wait until you try it on a website that literally thrives on the idea of multi-part impulse purchases kept constantly available, like FR. How many people crave Light Sprites for years and years but never own more than a couple of thousand gems or a couple of million treasure at once? How many people make posts showing off their two million treasure savings?

Plus, a lot of potentially earned in-game currency rests on the whims of the RNG and the other players and it takes a whole heck of a lot longer to earn than real life cash. If you decide to go to work IRL for 8 hours, you're going to get the same pay for each hour, and you know every hour is going to pay off. If you Coli grind for 8 hours, you have no guarantee you're going to get the same value in drops each hour. You also have no guarantee that what drops is going to be worth the same thing day in and day out to the other players who also have limited and unstable income and are making similar decisions. So it seems bigger than it really is as a currency.

How long will it take you to earn 30,000,000 treasure for that piece of polished, colored, dynamic art with a background you want? Are you 100% sure you won't get distracted or need to purchase something else and set yourself back even longer? Are you 100% sure you're going to still own the dragon you're getting it for by the time you get there? You could always drop $300 real life dollars on gems, or skip the middleman and commission them with the money itself. Do you actually want to do that/have the ability to do that, or does it just sound nice in theory and you'd rather pay with treasure? And if it's the second one, again: how long will it take you to earn 30,000,000 treasure?

How many more pieces could someone waiting on a single person to earn 30,000,000 treasure have done if they charged half that? A quarter of that? A tenth of that? Could they have made more than 30,000,000 in that same time by charging less? Does that mean they'll get what they're saving for much sooner and avoid their own increased spending costs? Are they personally okay with knowing they're not getting every penny they're actually worth on every piece?

Some artists choose to lower costs because it at least means they'll get steady business and be able to buy things on the site. I'd love to get 1000 gems for each of my {Bogsneak} {adoptables}. But I couldn't even sell them when they were 300--and it's not like they're stick figures. So they're lower. At least I move them now, when I'm open. My hopes don't buy the stuff I need to get on FR. Treasure and gems do.

======

Is FR's art pricing scene the most ideal situation for an FR artist? Heck no. Should they ideally be able to get exactly what they want? Yes, of course. Art is a luxury, and it is a skill that requires a lot of time to practice, and it does take a chunk of time to complete a piece. It definitely has a higher value than what it's given here on FR, no matter what it is or how good it is.

But to some extent, points 1 and 2 are things every artist here has to deal with when choosing what they're asking for from customers. Every one of them has to make a decision based on these things, whether they know that's why or not. And a lot of times, the answer to it is going to be "I can take the hit."

If you want artists to get more, then give them more. Immediate problem solved! But the chances those 16 marbled rye sellers are all going to demand $50 for their loaves becomes extremely tiny the instant even one of them sees that he'll pay his bank loan sooner than the others if he charges $45... and that's before getting into even more complex matters like subjectivity, self-esteem, and doing art cheaper for fun/practice.
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I mean, I absolutely see what you're saying. However, if they're going to try and charge game currency for their work, they're going to be underpaid at least somewhat if they want to actually sell anything. There's the simple fact that the vast majority of player don't have $30+ worth of gems on their person. Thus, if you limit the price of your art to that, you'll get no buyers vs. selling at a lower price to make up the difference.

It's better to sell 20 cheap products than to sell 1 expensive product.

It's capitalism bby
I mean, I absolutely see what you're saying. However, if they're going to try and charge game currency for their work, they're going to be underpaid at least somewhat if they want to actually sell anything. There's the simple fact that the vast majority of player don't have $30+ worth of gems on their person. Thus, if you limit the price of your art to that, you'll get no buyers vs. selling at a lower price to make up the difference.

It's better to sell 20 cheap products than to sell 1 expensive product.

It's capitalism bby
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just wanted to get my shower thought out there on this one. i get a lot of the points you guys are making and i have those problems too as an artist myself, I just noticed a problem and needed to speak lmao, shrug.

it is really interesting to see what other people think, generally just wanted to get some feedback on the situation and start a conversation here to see where it goes. hope you all are having a nice morning/evening, btw

basically this whole situation happens everywhere which is something im well aware of, not to mention stuff like just doing art for fun, art worth in terms of fr's specific pricing, so on and so forth

but basically
its capitalism baby!
just wanted to get my shower thought out there on this one. i get a lot of the points you guys are making and i have those problems too as an artist myself, I just noticed a problem and needed to speak lmao, shrug.

it is really interesting to see what other people think, generally just wanted to get some feedback on the situation and start a conversation here to see where it goes. hope you all are having a nice morning/evening, btw

basically this whole situation happens everywhere which is something im well aware of, not to mention stuff like just doing art for fun, art worth in terms of fr's specific pricing, so on and so forth

but basically
its capitalism baby!
eros
she/he/they fr +3
i love imperials
C2SEoLu.gif
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