Flight Rising Discussion

[quote name="Volinolona" date="2018-06-14 10:55:13" ] [quote name="painesgrey" date="2018-06-14 10:48:54" ] [quote name="Volinolona" date="2018-06-14 10:06:21" ]All previous updates have been inclusive of older and irreplaceable dragons. New colors? I can scatter scroll that 7-digit Imp and give him a new paint job. [/quote] I honestly don't understand this comparison. Older dragons were certainly left out of the colour wheel expansion, and even a scatter wouldn't guarantee me even a semblance of what colours I would want for my older, irreplaceable dragons. The chances of me getting the exact colour combination I wanted would literally be one in [b]millions[/b]. For 350g a pop, no less. I certainly think that getting the exact eyes you want from a 150g scattersight is much more feasible, yet it's some great injustice? [/quote] I wouldn't think it 'much more feasible.' I read the chance for Primal - which is what a lot of people want - is below a 1% chance. While I haven't rolled Scattersights, I have dealt with under 1% chances before, and let me tell you, they are [i]horrible[/i] things. My main point, however, was that these dragons don't even have a chance to be what their caretakers want them to be - even with the scrolls having more variety, they are still always available, which means there is always a chance for the dragon to get the colors the user wants. That's not the same with the vials. [/quote] I agree with Volinolona. I doubt the people who used 70+ scattersights and never got past "rare" would call it more feasible, especially since they're now a retired item.

[quote name="painesgrey" date="2018-06-14 10:48:54" ] [quote name="Volinolona" date="2018-06-14 10:06:21" ]All previous updates have been inclusive of older and irreplaceable dragons. New colors? I can scatter scroll that 7-digit Imp and give him a new paint job. [/quote] I honestly don't understand this comparison. Older dragons were certainly left out of the colour wheel expansion, and even a scatter wouldn't guarantee me even a semblance of what colours I would want for my older, irreplaceable dragons. The chances of me getting the exact colour combination I wanted would literally be one in [b]millions[/b]. For 350g a pop, no less. I certainly think that getting the exact eyes you want from a 150g scattersight is much more feasible, yet it's some great injustice? [/quote] The difference is presumably all colors have an equal chance of making an appearance. Yes getting the EXACT color combo you want is rare (but not immpossible) you know your chances when you use a scatter scroll and we all knew new colors were coming for all year prior. With the scatter vial all the eyes you can get are not weighted equally. You can use 100 vials and get the same uncommon eyes over all over again because the chances of primal and multi are so low. What's worse is we didn't know the percentage of those eyes going in. We had to come up with out own data in a very limited amount of time and decide whether it was even worth trying for those eyes. And finally Scatterscrolls are NOT retired. You could theoretically try forever to get your old dragons the colors you want while vials are strictly limited. Why even try for new eyes when the deck is so stacked against you?

[quote name="painesgrey" date="2018-06-14 10:48:54" ] [quote name="Volinolona" date="2018-06-14 10:06:21" ]All previous updates have been inclusive of older and irreplaceable dragons. New colors? I can scatter scroll that 7-digit Imp and give him a new paint job. [/quote] I honestly don't understand this comparison. Older dragons were certainly left out of the colour wheel expansion, and even a scatter wouldn't guarantee me even a semblance of what colours I would want for my older, irreplaceable dragons. The chances of me getting the exact colour combination I wanted would literally be one in [b]millions[/b]. For 350g a pop, no less. I certainly think that getting the exact eyes you want from a 150g scattersight is much more feasible, yet it's some great injustice? [/quote] It's the retiring of the scattersights. If they were put in the gem marketplace at 150g it would be fine, low odds or no.

I'm just going to add my voice to the frustrations. I'm not as eloquent as some other users, and I don't really have anything new to add, but anyway.

1) The Vials. A topic that's been done to death, I know, but the biggest sore spot for me. Mostly because there was so much wrong with how they were implemented.
2) Communication for this event has been appalling. This is nothing new, but it never stops being frustrating. I have been on the site since April 2014, and in the time I've gone from watching Words on the Wind go from being monthly, to quarterly, to the last one being in October of 2016. The Community Updates were supposed to take their place, but they stopped happening around May of 2017. Then there was the weekly Q&A threads which had three attempts, before becoming Ask the Team. Which has seemingly died as of April. And what it seems like is that the staff are actively trying to avoid dealing with the userbase as much as possible. I'm not saying that this is the case, but this is what it seems like. It's even evident in this very thread. The last staff update was on Page 104. Nearly 40 pages and two days, and all that said was 'we're taking notes for review'. This kind of boilerplate response is incredibly insulting to your consumerbase, since to us, it reads like you don't care. You cannot leave us hanging with a response like this. Because we don't know if you're listening, and so we assume you aren't. Especially since this pattern of not listening to your community has been around for over four years at this point. And I'm not saying that this is the case. But that's how it is from our perspective.

[quote name="Sorel" date="2018-06-14 10:57:58" ]The difference is presumably all colors have an equal chance of making an appearance. Yes getting the EXACT color combo you want is rare (but not immpossible) you know your chances when you use a scatter scroll and we all knew new colors were coming for all year prior. With the scatter vial all the eyes you can get are not weighted equally. You can use 100 vials and get the same uncommon eyes over all over again because the chances of primal and multi are so low. What's worse is we didn't know the percentage of those eyes going in. We had to come up with out own data in a very limited amount of time and decide whether it was even worth trying for those eyes. And finally Scatterscrolls are NOT retired. You could theoretically try forever to get your old dragons the colors you want while vials are strictly limited. Why even try for new eyes when the deck is so stacked against you? [/quote] What I'm trying to say is that people saying that "no other update has left older dragons out" is fallacious and just untrue. With a scatter scroll, I have a ~0.000001% chance of getting the colour combination I want. With a scattersight scroll, I have a ~0.7% chance of getting primal. I'd have better odds at getting the eyes than I [i]ever[/i] would of getting the colour combination I wanted, regardless as to whether the scrolls are retired. I'm not saying that the implementation of the eyes and scattersight were practical. I'm just taking issue with the comparisons that people are drawing.

[quote name="Sorel" date="2018-06-14 10:57:58" ] [quote name="painesgrey" date="2018-06-14 10:48:54" ] [quote name="Volinolona" date="2018-06-14 10:06:21" ]All previous updates have been inclusive of older and irreplaceable dragons. New colors? I can scatter scroll that 7-digit Imp and give him a new paint job. [/quote] I honestly don't understand this comparison. Older dragons were certainly left out of the colour wheel expansion, and even a scatter wouldn't guarantee me even a semblance of what colours I would want for my older, irreplaceable dragons. The chances of me getting the exact colour combination I wanted would literally be one in [b]millions[/b]. For 350g a pop, no less. I certainly think that getting the exact eyes you want from a 150g scattersight is much more feasible, yet it's some great injustice? [/quote] The difference is presumably all colors have an equal chance of making an appearance. Yes getting the EXACT color combo you want is rare (but not immpossible) you know your chances when you use a scatter scroll and we all knew new colors were coming for all year prior. With the scatter vial all the eyes you can get are not weighted equally. You can use 100 vials and get the same uncommon eyes over all over again because the chances of primal and multi are so low. What's worse is we didn't know the percentage of those eyes going in. We had to come up with out own data in a very limited amount of time and decide whether it was even worth trying for those eyes. And finally Scatterscrolls are NOT retired. You could theoretically try forever to get your old dragons the colors you want while vials are strictly limited. Why even try for new eyes when the deck is so stacked against you? [/quote] Mmm, yes, put much better than I could manage. I would also like to point out that this wasn't the only point I made against Scattervials staying retired, yet it was the only thing that was zoned in on. On another note, I forgot to voice my agreement with those of you saying the staff needs better communication with their users. I don't think this situation could have been 100% avoided via communication - sometimes ideas look better on paper than they do when put into action - but it certainly wouldn't have gotten this bad, especially if the staff was to take note and begin talking to us about potential solutions. It's also really, really difficult for us to suggest reasonable and plausible solutions when the staff won't tell us which ideas are even possible and which ones they do and do not like - and why!

[quote name="FailSafe" date="2018-06-14 11:05:04" ] I'm just going to add my voice to the frustrations. I'm not as eloquent as some other users, and I don't really have anything new to add, but anyway. 1) The Vials. A topic that's been done to death, I know, but the biggest sore spot for me. Mostly because there was so much wrong with how they were implemented. a) As a general rule, I hate hidden rarities, and this was no different. I didn't think that Primal and Multi-Gaze would have the same rarities as Uncommon, but I didn't expect them to be less than a percent. That is frustratingly low, and I am saddened that those weren't disclosed from the start. b) The time limit was equally frustrating. For a retiring event, three days isn't nearly enough time for a permanently retiring item. People have lives outside of this website, and as such cannot spend time grinding the coliseum. I managed the grand total of two vials, including the gift, because I had things to do this weekend. It was stated that the vials were a last-minute addition, and it shows. Honestly, I would have preferred it if we weren't given the option to get more vials. At least then, I would have no choice but to accept my progen's uncommon, because that was my one and only shot. As it stands, I'm frustrated because I feel like the event excluded me because I dared have a life. Or, alternately, give us more than three days (maybe closer to a fortnight, or even a month) to try for the Vials. c) It's unclear as to why the Vials need to retire at all. In fact, with the revelation that there are going to be more eye types, it would be a lot more interesting to have the Vials, maybe even with some vial-exclusive eyes as well. 2) Communication for this event has been appalling. This is nothing new, but it never stops being frustrating. I have been on the site since April 2014, and in the time I've gone from watching Words on the Wind go from being monthly, to quarterly, to the last one being in October of 2016. The Community Updates were supposed to take their place, but they stopped happening around May of 2017. Then there was the weekly Q&A threads which had three attempts, before becoming Ask the Team. Which has seemingly died as of April. And what it seems like is that the staff are actively trying to avoid dealing with the userbase as much as possible. I'm not saying that this is the case, but this is what it seems like. It's even evident in this very thread. The last staff update was on Page 104. Nearly 40 pages and two days, and all that said was 'we're taking notes for review'. This kind of boilerplate response is incredibly insulting to your consumerbase, since to us, it reads like you don't care. You cannot leave us hanging with a response like this. Because we don't know if you're listening, and so we assume you aren't. Especially since this pattern of not listening to your community has been around for over four years at this point. And I'm not saying that this is the case. But that's how it is from our perspective. [/quote] ^ These are all really good points.

[quote name="painesgrey" date="2018-06-14 11:07:17" ] [quote name="Sorel" date="2018-06-14 10:57:58" ]The difference is presumably all colors have an equal chance of making an appearance. Yes getting the EXACT color combo you want is rare (but not immpossible) you know your chances when you use a scatter scroll and we all knew new colors were coming for all year prior. With the scatter vial all the eyes you can get are not weighted equally. You can use 100 vials and get the same uncommon eyes over all over again because the chances of primal and multi are so low. What's worse is we didn't know the percentage of those eyes going in. We had to come up with out own data in a very limited amount of time and decide whether it was even worth trying for those eyes. And finally Scatterscrolls are NOT retired. You could theoretically try forever to get your old dragons the colors you want while vials are strictly limited. Why even try for new eyes when the deck is so stacked against you? [/quote] What I'm trying to say is that people saying that "no other update has left older dragons out" is fallacious and just untrue. With a scatter scroll, I have a ~0.000001% chance of getting the colour combination I want. With a scattersight scroll, I have a ~0.7% chance of getting primal. I'd have better odds at getting the eyes than I [i]ever[/i] would of getting the colour combination I wanted, regardless as to whether the scrolls are retired. I'm not saying that the implementation of the eyes and scattersight were practical. I'm just taking issue with the comparisons that people are drawing. [/quote] Not getting exactly what you want doesn't leave the older dragons out - not getting it at all, however, does. You can still get new colors on an old dragon with a scroll, even if they're not the colors you want. Yes, you can still technically get eyes on an older dragon, even if they're not the ones you want, but that will eventually no longer be a possibility whereas the possibility to add the new colors will always be there.

[quote name="Volinolona" date="2018-06-14 11:09:17" ] On another note, I forgot to voice my agreement with those of you saying the staff needs better communication with their users. I don't think this situation could have been 100% avoided via communication - sometimes ideas look better on paper than they do when put into action - but it certainly wouldn't have gotten this bad, especially if the staff was to take note and begin talking to us about potential solutions. It's also really, really difficult for us to suggest reasonable and plausible solutions when the staff won't tell us which ideas are even possible and which ones they do and do not like - and why! [/quote] Agreed, the silence is a big part of my frustration personally. Even if the answer is "we can't enact these suggestions for these reasons" it's better than saying nothing about it at all. At least we'd know our ideas were being given serious consideration.

[quote name="Volinolona" date="2018-06-14 11:11:48" ]but that will eventually no longer be a possibility whereas the possibility to add the new colors will always be there.[/quote] Am I the only one who actually made and stored a dozen scattersights, then.. ? The only items on this site that are unfeasible for most people to ever obtain are Kickstarter items, for good reason. But an item that is currently half the price of its colour MP equivalent is unlikely to ever be unobtainable.