Historical Mafia 4 | Discussion (OVER) | Forum Games

I'm really sorry for being inactive. I've been busy recently and probably will be for the rest of the weekend (gotta run around the city, submit applications for things, and do school work too).
If anyone is sus of me or does an iso, ping me and hopefully I can respond.

I don't know why people are still sussing Shimmer? They seem to be just short of conftown at this point.
I suppose clw has (somewhat) accidentally roleclaimed. Not sure how I feel about that being revealed.
Also, another maf down! That means one more person whose posts can be reviewed.
For the extra kills, I briefly considered an arsonist being in play but it doesn't make sense with the D1 kills.
Can someone explain the case on Mithent? I've been feeling mostly alright about them for the game and I think last time I asked for clarification nobody responded. I know there was that quote wall from Tynnk but it wasn't really helpful without analysis (and @Tynnk, people are going to disagree with you because it's a discussion and everyone will have varying opinions. It's important to contribute your opinions so that town is able to consider different viewpoints on issues).

TheNightDancer

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November 18, 2017 14:54:40

I'm really sorry for being inactive. I've been busy recently and probably will be for the rest of the weekend (gotta run around the city, submit applications for things, and do school work too).
If anyone is sus of me or does an iso, ping me and hopefully I can respond.

I don't know why people are still sussing Shimmer? They seem to be just short of conftown at this point.
I suppose clw has (somewhat) accidentally roleclaimed. Not sure how I feel about that being revealed.
Also, another maf down! That means one more person whose posts can be reviewed.
For the extra kills, I briefly considered an arsonist being in play but it doesn't make sense with the D1 kills.
Can someone explain the case on Mithent? I've been feeling mostly alright about them for the game and I think last time I asked for clarification nobody responded. I know there was that quote wall from Tynnk but it wasn't really helpful without analysis (and @Tynnk, people are going to disagree with you because it's a discussion and everyone will have varying opinions. It's important to contribute your opinions so that town is able to consider different viewpoints on issues).

dancer | fr+3 | music shop | g1 sales | wishlist

LMAO WE TAKE THOSE well dusky did mention tsaiah seeming townie once to that's 2 conf scum that tried to vouch for mithent's slot [quote name="DuskyAether" date=2017-11-12 23:14:30] Need to head off to bed, then I got school tomorrow. Quick thoughts - I like Meikal so far, Tsaiah seems towny but I'm neutral because she's faked town very convincingly before, something's a bit off about Night - don't think they were this wishy-washy in games I played w town!Night? I think at least one scum has played w Yatagarasu before tbh, and Renato still strijes me as Very New Town/3P who didn't read the front page properly. Still not sure what make of tynnk. [/quote]

g0dsend

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November 18, 2017 15:06:27

LMAO WE TAKE THOSE

well dusky did mention tsaiah seeming townie once to that's 2 conf scum that tried to vouch for mithent's slot

DuskyAether wrote on 2017-11-12:

Need to head off to bed, then I got school tomorrow.

Quick thoughts - I like Meikal so far, Tsaiah seems towny but I'm neutral because she's faked town very convincingly before, something's a bit off about Night - don't think they were this wishy-washy in games I played w town!Night? I think at least one scum has played w Yatagarasu before tbh, and Renato still strijes me as Very New Town/3P who didn't read the front page properly. Still not sure what make of tynnk.

[quote name="g0dsend" date=2017-11-18 15:06:27] LMAO WE TAKE THOSE well dusky did mention tsaiah seeming townie once to that's 2 conf scum that tried to vouch for mithent's slot [quote name="DuskyAether" date=2017-11-12 23:14:30] Need to head off to bed, then I got school tomorrow. Quick thoughts - I like Meikal so far, Tsaiah seems towny but I'm neutral because she's faked town very convincingly before, something's a bit off about Night - don't think they were this wishy-washy in games I played w town!Night? I think at least one scum has played w Yatagarasu before tbh, and Renato still strijes me as Very New Town/3P who didn't read the front page properly. Still not sure what make of tynnk. [/quote] [/quote] well, I think thats suspicious enough

RenatoUlbov

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November 18, 2017 15:14:10

g0dsend wrote on 2017-11-18:

LMAO WE TAKE THOSE

well dusky did mention tsaiah seeming townie once to that's 2 conf scum that tried to vouch for mithent's slot

DuskyAether wrote on 2017-11-12:

Need to head off to bed, then I got school tomorrow.

Quick thoughts - I like Meikal so far, Tsaiah seems towny but I'm neutral because she's faked town very convincingly before, something's a bit off about Night - don't think they were this wishy-washy in games I played w town!Night? I think at least one scum has played w Yatagarasu before tbh, and Renato still strijes me as Very New Town/3P who didn't read the front page properly. Still not sure what make of tynnk.

well, I think thats suspicious enough

I was working on a lot last night which is why I was awake super late. I just woke up now and I'm glad to see a lot of people are posting. @floatinginspace I really don't agree with the shimmer stuff you're on but lol okay you just got here. From what I can see it seems likely that shimmer is definitely the vig and the bs about the witch is stuff I called out already and we got resolved. Basically I kind of question why you want to kill Shimmerwing just yet if they really are functionally vanilla with a harmful passive. I don't think it's worth it, even though it's now "possible to do it." AT ANY RATE: NightRising was a doctor-- [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_de_Ventura]a plague doctor[/url]. It states that this man was only able to see people who were suffering from the bubonic plague, no other illness. Thus it falls in line that NR would have some sort of backlash for protecting somebody who was not being shot at? It probably is a shame we didn’t keep them around longer to see what the ability actually was. >>Theory: Upon visiting a player who was not being shot at they die instead or go to the scum team instead? >>This may be old news but NightRising was able to confirm that on N1 Shimmerwing was shot at. This means that the number of nightkills would have been 4 instead of 3 had it not been for NR. -------------- Thus we can see that the number of shots taken on night one was 4. Though we don’t know how many shots in total there were N2, it may be safe to assume that 4 was the max there. So our pattern is N1 4 shots, 3 deaths [NR prevented 1] → N2 3 shots, 3 deaths* → N3 ?(2) shots, 2 deaths * [quote name="Shimmerwing" date=2017-11-14 18:47:04] No. It was an empty threat intended for mafia Roleblocker or redirect or waste one of their shots. I’m just curious, is there a witch here that can control my abilities? I DID NOT submit a kill [/quote] Shimmerwing is alarmed that the number of kills is the same as the day before because they did not submit a kill. However, I speculate that Meowrific was actually a town vig. "Cixi" Is a little lacking in title however wikipedia immediately redirects you to [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Dowager_Cixi]Empress Cixi[/url] "Historians both in China and abroad have long portrayed her as a despot responsible for the fall of the Qing dynasty. Others have suggested that her opponents among the reformers and revolutionaries succeeded in blaming her for problems beyond her control. Furthermore, they say that she intervened decisively to prevent political disorder, was no more ruthless than other rulers of her time, and that she was an effective reformer in the last years of her life, even if she was reluctant to take on this role." >>Made military reforms happen Compared to the other kills Meowrific seems likely to be somebody who had a gun in their hands. While it is not completely certain what the order of operations was, we can see that on the suggested [url=https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution]Natural Action Resolution[/url] kills will happen simultaniously, which means that on N2 Meowrific probably landed a shot, hence why there was 3. Then, on N3 where there's only 2 kills.... well, meowrific is already dead. Anyway this is a written out summary of what I came up with last night.

LordMeikai

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November 18, 2017 15:14:18

I was working on a lot last night which is why I was awake super late. I just woke up now and I'm glad to see a lot of people are posting.

@floatinginspace I really don't agree with the shimmer stuff you're on but lol okay you just got here. From what I can see it seems likely that shimmer is definitely the vig and the bs about the witch is stuff I called out already and we got resolved.

Basically I kind of question why you want to kill Shimmerwing just yet if they really are functionally vanilla with a harmful passive. I don't think it's worth it, even though it's now "possible to do it."

AT ANY RATE:

NightRising was a doctor-- a plague doctor. It states that this man was only able to see people who were suffering from the bubonic plague, no other illness. Thus it falls in line that NR would have some sort of backlash for protecting somebody who was not being shot at? It probably is a shame we didn’t keep them around longer to see what the ability actually was.

>>Theory: Upon visiting a player who was not being shot at they die instead or go to the scum team instead?

>>This may be old news but NightRising was able to confirm that on N1 Shimmerwing was shot at. This means that the number of nightkills would have been 4 instead of 3 had it not been for NR.

Thus we can see that the number of shots taken on night one was 4. Though we don’t know how many shots in total there were N2, it may be safe to assume that 4 was the max there.

So our pattern is
N1 4 shots, 3 deaths [NR prevented 1] → N2 3 shots, 3 deaths* → N3 ?(2) shots, 2 deaths

*

Shimmerwing wrote on 2017-11-14:

No. It was an empty threat intended for mafia Roleblocker or redirect or waste one of their shots. I’m just curious, is there a witch here that can control my abilities? I DID NOT submit a kill

Shimmerwing is alarmed that the number of kills is the same as the day before because they did not submit a kill. However, I speculate that Meowrific was actually a town vig.

"Cixi" Is a little lacking in title however wikipedia immediately redirects you to Empress Cixi

"Historians both in China and abroad have long portrayed her as a despot responsible for the fall of the Qing dynasty. Others have suggested that her opponents among the reformers and revolutionaries succeeded in blaming her for problems beyond her control. Furthermore, they say that she intervened decisively to prevent political disorder, was no more ruthless than other rulers of her time, and that she was an effective reformer in the last years of her life, even if she was reluctant to take on this role."

>>Made military reforms happen

Compared to the other kills Meowrific seems likely to be somebody who had a gun in their hands.

While it is not completely certain what the order of operations was, we can see that on the suggested Natural Action Resolution kills will happen simultaniously, which means that on N2 Meowrific probably landed a shot, hence why there was 3. Then, on N3 where there's only 2 kills.... well, meowrific is already dead.

Anyway this is a written out summary of what I came up with last night.

also im going to be leaving soonish and i wont be back until after lockdown so unless there are better leads than mithent brought up between now and then, he is getting my vote before i go

g0dsend

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November 18, 2017 15:20:53

also im going to be leaving soonish and i wont be back until after lockdown so unless there are better leads than mithent brought up between now and then, he is getting my vote before i go

i totally dropped the ball on fish lately (sorry @smashedfish </3 you the real mvp) but i'm here now. gonna read through pings first and then tackle some of what i've seen on my skimming (space+renato--you're killing me). be back in a bit

abyssum

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November 18, 2017 15:22:21

i totally dropped the ball on fish lately (sorry @smashedfish </3 you the real mvp) but i'm here now. gonna read through pings first and then tackle some of what i've seen on my skimming (space+renato--you're killing me). be back in a bit

@Cognitive [quote name="Cognitive" date=2017-11-16 09:50:28] @ lordmeikai I disagree with the Mithent lynch. I said that tsaiah stopping posting was suspicious to me, but when she explained being busy I get that. I like Mithent right now, and I don’t think I’ve been pushing to lynch him at any point. [/quote] [quote name="Cognitive" date=2017-11-16 18:45:55] @ LordMeikai Who did you initially change your vote to before being asked to change back by kirk? [/quote] [quote name="LordMeikai" date=2017-11-16 19:27:47] @ cotnitive Mithent [/quote] [quote name="Cognitive" date=2017-11-16 19:34:47] @ LordMeikai All right. Given the way the voting went, I'm more open to a Mithent vote at this time. @ RenatoUlbov I don't think LordMeikai trying to break the tie was a scummy move, personally. Considering there are six tallied votes for ashes when both she and Mithent are shown to be tied at four, I'd say the double voter is mafia or mafia aligned at least. Who posted the list of the people who voted on day one and not day two? I'm trying to find that. [/quote] [quote name="Cognitive" date=2017-11-18 06:22:49] Sorry for not being around a whole lot. I visited my sister last night and wound up spending the night at her house. I’m still at her house since it’s her birthday so I have no computer right now. But some quick mobile thoughts. I feel like dandelionfires, clw23, and Shimmer are town. I am confused by your vote @ lordmeikai. Why Renato and not Mithent? Less certain of g0dsend right now. I’ll try to pop home some time today to get a better post up. If not I’ll try keeping tabs through my phone since I’ll be at a hockey game for lockdown. [/quote] [quote name="Cognitive" date=2017-11-18 13:39:38] I think from what I’ve currently read I’d be okay with a Mithent or FloatinginSpace lynch. I don’t really know about Renato since they claimed, and I feel pretty okay with the claim. I’ll place a vote on Mithent so I at least vote today. I’ll try checking in during the hockey game, though. [/quote] I don't like this train of thought. You townread Mith until the voting nonsense, then decided to lynch him. I didn't see any case from you between now and then beyond, presumably, yesterday's lynch results. You even ask Meikai about them switching when they find a better target. Why was that alone enough to convince you to go for a hard town read?

Departure

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November 18, 2017 15:22:43

@Cognitive

Cognitive wrote on 2017-11-16:

@ lordmeikai I disagree with the Mithent lynch. I said that tsaiah stopping posting was suspicious to me, but when she explained being busy I get that. I like Mithent right now, and I don’t think I’ve been pushing to lynch him at any point.

Cognitive wrote on 2017-11-16:

@ LordMeikai Who did you initially change your vote to before being asked to change back by kirk?

LordMeikai wrote on 2017-11-16:

@ cotnitive Mithent

Cognitive wrote on 2017-11-16:

@ LordMeikai All right. Given the way the voting went, I'm more open to a Mithent vote at this time.

@ RenatoUlbov I don't think LordMeikai trying to break the tie was a scummy move, personally.

Considering there are six tallied votes for ashes when both she and Mithent are shown to be tied at four, I'd say the double voter is mafia or mafia aligned at least. Who posted the list of the people who voted on day one and not day two? I'm trying to find that.

Cognitive wrote on 2017-11-18:

Sorry for not being around a whole lot. I visited my sister last night and wound up spending the night at her house. I’m still at her house since it’s her birthday so I have no computer right now. But some quick mobile thoughts. I feel like dandelionfires, clw23, and Shimmer are town. I am confused by your vote @ lordmeikai. Why Renato and not Mithent? Less certain of g0dsend right now. I’ll try to pop home some time today to get a better post up. If not I’ll try keeping tabs through my phone since I’ll be at a hockey game for lockdown.

Cognitive wrote on 2017-11-18:

I think from what I’ve currently read I’d be okay with a Mithent or FloatinginSpace lynch. I don’t really know about Renato since they claimed, and I feel pretty okay with the claim. I’ll place a vote on Mithent so I at least vote today. I’ll try checking in during the hockey game, though.

I don't like this train of thought. You townread Mith until the voting nonsense, then decided to lynch him. I didn't see any case from you between now and then beyond, presumably, yesterday's lynch results. You even ask Meikai about them switching when they find a better target. Why was that alone enough to convince you to go for a hard town read?

@g0dsend @RenatoUlbov
Maf aren't going to have only maf as townreads, and Tsaiah is pretty good (unfortunately, you have me now instead). Honestly sounds to me like the sort of thing you might say about someone who is widely townread but you want to keep options open for discrediting.

Mithent

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November 18, 2017 15:32:52

@g0dsend @RenatoUlbov
Maf aren't going to have only maf as townreads, and Tsaiah is pretty good (unfortunately, you have me now instead). Honestly sounds to me like the sort of thing you might say about someone who is widely townread but you want to keep options open for discrediting.

I'm trying to understand why RenatoUlbov and Clw23 seemed to both at the same time start vying for a tie in vote. I know that Clw23 was like OH NO WAIT I DONT WANT A TIE like...mid way through that... but it kinda seems like both of them really wanted to tie the vote into a NL.

@clw23 Why did it enter your mind that a nl would be a good idea? It's practically almost NEVER a good idea. Maybe in some games, on SOME sites, it's an idea people like on day 1... but even after that unless everybody has solidly roleclaimed or something and the game gets handed to town then what? (I'm referring to the follow the cop strategy which I read on once lol, it's unlikely as f)

@Renatoulbov Feel free to answer the above as well if you want I guess. I'm more surprised about clw23 wanting it than you though.

LordMeikai

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November 18, 2017 15:33:56

I'm trying to understand why RenatoUlbov and Clw23 seemed to both at the same time start vying for a tie in vote. I know that Clw23 was like OH NO WAIT I DONT WANT A TIE like...mid way through that... but it kinda seems like both of them really wanted to tie the vote into a NL.

@clw23 Why did it enter your mind that a nl would be a good idea? It's practically almost NEVER a good idea. Maybe in some games, on SOME sites, it's an idea people like on day 1... but even after that unless everybody has solidly roleclaimed or something and the game gets handed to town then what? (I'm referring to the follow the cop strategy which I read on once lol, it's unlikely as f)

@Renatoulbov Feel free to answer the above as well if you want I guess. I'm more surprised about clw23 wanting it than you though.

@g0dsend I understand you said you've been overwhelmed/burned out but I'm a little surprised to see you saying that there are two conf scum? DuskyAether did approximately nothing (why.) and now we have very little to go off of. There are 24 people in game so xe could have afforded to dodge commenting on ANY scum team members, especially if people are so willing to give a pass for absence.

LordMeikai

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November 18, 2017 15:40:25

@g0dsend I understand you said you've been overwhelmed/burned out but I'm a little surprised to see you saying that there are two conf scum? DuskyAether did approximately nothing (why.) and now we have very little to go off of. There are 24 people in game so xe could have afforded to dodge commenting on ANY scum team members, especially if people are so willing to give a pass for absence.