Suggestions

[quote name="Zhukov" date="2019-06-06 16:38:03" ] And there are already so many existing mechanics that break from lore, anyways. We can turn mage dragons like fae into physical fighters. We can breed imperials and pearlcatchers even though they hate each other. Nocturnes exist in lairs all over Sornieth throughout the whole year, rather than spending most of it in hiding like their lore says. [/quote] And of course, dragons are sapient beings that can be bought and sold at market. I'm pretty sure nobody really wants lore on [i]everything[/i] around here... [quote name="SaaviYB" date="2019-06-06 11:49:39" ] I'm a big fan of lore, especially FR's, so to me if the lore deems vials of different eyesights is canon then I'd be fully on board. [/quote] Yeah, no doubt they'd come up with an explanation, or we could create our own. Goat eyes were natural-only at first, so there never were vials - so where did Galore get them from? What magical superglue is preventing them from leaving our possession? Why can faceted eyes be naturally/elementally influenced but swirling ones can't? Where were domesticated dogs hiding out through the extinction of the human race and two apocalypses, and who's tending the ones in the MP waiting for us to buy them? Everything's pretty arbitrary. You can choose what you do with your dragons to fit your lore; type vials/mechanics existing for players who feel differently won't change that.

Lore for eye types could be “Studious dragons have figured out how to bottle and refine the essence of the magic that influences their nests”, or something. There are lots of options! I don’t see any reason why lore should stop dragons from having different Natural eye types, especially since Scattersights, Tempered Sight vials, and Goat vials all affect the Natural eyes of existing dragons. Adding more vials would just be an extension of that.

Plus, lore has never really stopped anything before-- Imperials can live in large groups together (despite fear of Emperors), pale-coloured Coatls (seen as unlucky or sickly in site canon) can breed with colourful Coatls, Guardians can be turned into mages instead of fighters, you can have a lair of Nature dragons when you’re in Plague, and so on.

Lore is nice for worldbuilding, but it’s never been a big interference before. I don’t see any reason why that has to start now with the introduction of eye types.

I think the main reason why we don’t have eye vials is because eye types are supposed to be “special” and make everyone instantly rich upon hatching, though. But that argument has already been picked apart to the Wyrmwound and back- the tints are worthless and have been worthless since 1 week after they came out, and the “special” types are all either fodder or near-fodder unless they’re on the right dragon.

I hatched my first Goat-eyed dragon the other day, and when I went to see how much Goat-eyed adults were selling for... 6500t. No more than a dragon with Common. There were a whole ton of them for under 10kT. That’s... not “valuable”. I get what the intention for eye types was, but it’s really time to accept that it’s not working out as planned. :c

I will never stop supporting this. Excluding part of your player base is a terrible business tactic. Honestly, it feels like the staff want their older players to leave. I wouldn't be surprised if some players actually have left over this.

In the wake of the 1 year anniversary of the eyepocalypse, I have some thoughts to share.

I appreciate that this year's anniversary was implemented much better. There is some element of control, with everyone being given 2 scrolls for free, and more scrolls being available through the marketplace. That way, it doesn't leave out old players who want to customize their dragons and change them into gaolers. There is also a lack of frustrating RNG mechanics. All the genes can be applied normally, breeding is just like normal breeding. This is the kind of content I like to see- it includes anyone if they are willing to work for it.

And you can see the community difference. I don't see anyone being salty about this update! I personally don't like ancients too much because of the lack of apparel (even though I understand why this is a necessity), but it's not like implementing them was a bad idea that somehow harms me. All I have to do is not buy any ancients or use any scrolls. And it's this element of choice that is keeping everyone from being salty.

I think this anniversary was very successful, and I hope that this it taken into consideration when dealing with eye types. Players *love* exciting new things, and that includes new eye types! But what we don't love is when they come with a lack of customization.

[quote]I wouldn't be surprised if some players actually have left over this.[/quote] I know some who did. I am glad the staff explained that ancient and modern dragons will share eye mechanics. We don't have to worry about losing facet when we change our dragons to Gaolers and future ancients. Or if we breed a Gaoler with primal, it won't lose those eyes if it turns to a Guardian. But that still doesn't help new dragons get the old eyes. I don't think it would have hurt any to have Roundsey or Galore throw out at least a couple of tint based vials for the anniversary on top of everything else. It wouldn't have made Gaolers any less special, IMO. I can't really understand why the eyes have to be locked behind RNG1 (breeding) or RNG2 (scattervials). I don't see why release methods have to be time locked, which excludes all future players and current players who aren't online during that window. It really seems to go against FR's existing systems where any and all players could earn and control breed for their dream dragons (with the SOLE exception being Imperials--and even then, we could control breed.) We want to be able to expend effort. We want to work-play on FR. We want to be able to use existing mechanics to make our dragons awesome. Staff, please, we WANT to like the eyes. We WANT to enjoy them. Please give us the option to somehow earn eye vials for any and all types.

[quote]I think the main reason why we don’t have eye vials is because eye types are supposed to be “special” and make everyone instantly rich upon hatching, though.[/quote] I know for certain the staff has said "special," but I don't think they ever said "rich." "Special" means something different for everyone. I would like to know what the staff's vision is; what they mean by "special." Because I don't feel excitement when I see rare eyes on a nest I hatched. I feel excitement when I earn something; when I obtain my goal through effort. I certainly hope they didn't mean "rich." I would hope they would know the economy of their own site better. All dragon niches eventually bottom out. Goat hasn't been out THAT long in the grand scheme of things. I got two goat hatches. Both sold for fodder prices.

[quote]I know for certain the staff has said "special," but I don't think they ever said "rich."[/quote] They have said the hatchlings are supposed to be potentially valuable. Value is a far cry from rich, but the idea is there. I don't think the value part worked out the way they hoped.

[quote name="Almedha" date="2019-06-09 22:53:38" ] [quote]I know for certain the staff has said "special," but I don't think they ever said "rich."[/quote] They have said the hatchlings are supposed to be potentially valuable. Value is a far cry from rich, but the idea is there. I don't think the value part worked out the way they hoped. [/quote] Which is something I pretty much said in every 'I want random mutations' thread when the idea that 'if you don't like the mutation you can sell the baby for $$$$$' came up. Dragons are not valuable, except in rare cases. Why should I buy an ugly XYZ hatchling that has primal eyes that don't match any of its colors, when I can wait for that pretty XXY or XYZ primal eye baby to hatch from a different nest? Chances are someone will hatch it sooner or later, with the amount of dragons being hatched, and the sheer number on site. As I said, the only area that would get a lasting boost would be the gen1 market. You have no control over colors, so you can't get a close range pair and breed XYZ blue range dragons and hope for ice primal, so they are truly random. If I truly wanted an XYZ blue range dragon with water primal, I could get several pairs with the same range (or close to it) and just keep breeding them until I get what I want. (which could be a while due to RNG, however RNG doesn't make games more fun, just more frustrating) I can't keep doing that with a gen1. Sure I can keep hatching Ice or Water eggs, but that is costly and no guarantee I get what I want. Quite frankly, in my opinion, nothing short of a complete overhaul of the dragon system would make the random dragons produced 'valuable'. A new player just breeding their two progens for the first time might get a primal or multi or faceted baby, but unless they lucked out and got matching progens, chances are that baby isn't going to be worth much more than its siblings. This is all due to how dragons are handled. They are plentiful, never die, always can reproduce, and can be relatively easy to replicate color combos (relatively because some combos are rarer than others, so those are harder to reproduce). Dragons are also not useful in more than breeding more dragons or fighting in the colisuem. Except for imperials, nocturnes and Wildclaws?, all gene scrolls are available all year around, and except for smirch, all gene scrolls are available year round, so changing the breed or genes isn't hard. You technically only need 1 dragon to fight in the coliseum, though two or 3 are better and breeding dragons usually requires specific colors depending on the player's requirements. This means that players can be very picky with the dragons they buy. Unlike some other games I have been on, players, especially new ones, don't have to buy that ugly dragon in order to gather in various place, nor do other tasks around site. Once the 'ooh shiny!' stage of being a newbie passes (I still have some dragon's from that stage), players can afford to be very picky with the dragons they buy. This includes dragons with 'mutations'. While I would love a cat's eyed dragon, especially a spiral, if they released cat's eye as a natural eye color, I am not going to buy that ugly Yellow/orange/pink monstrosity just because it has cat's eye. I am going to wait until I see one I think is pretty, THEN I will buy it. By that time, the prices will probably have also fallen to nearly fodder price for cat's eye dragons so I get a better deal than if I had bought that first dragon. I definitely do NOT want the dragon system to be overhauled, I personally LIKE that dragons are plentiful and cheap and that new players don't have to stress about buying dragons because all the 'pretty ones' are expensive. I have been on sites like that, and to me they aren't fun. If the admins want dragons to be valuable, instead of having random things happen during breeding, they need to introduce more areas where dragons can be used and then level up. I have often mentioned cooking, where you can designate a 'chef' and the higher the level of the chef, the more recipes you have and the better those recipes turn out. Adventure mode having its own level system would be good as well. Both of those would give players something concrete they could work towards, (leveling their dragons) without the frustration of being completely at RNG's mercy, and it would give those dragons a boost in price for players who don't want to take the time to level their own dragons but still want the rewards of having higher level dragons for those areas.

[quote name="Almedha" date="2019-06-09 22:53:38" ] [quote]I know for certain the staff has said "special," but I don't think they ever said "rich."[/quote] They have said the hatchlings are supposed to be potentially valuable. Value is a far cry from rich, but the idea is there. I don't think the value part worked out the way they hoped. [/quote] Xhazotl said this in the Galore release thread: [quote name=“Xhazotl”]Natural eye types, by design, appear at random when hatching any new dragon in Flight Rising. This allows all players to have a chance at hatching [b]really unique dragons that can have significant value[/b].[/quote] So the takeaway for me was that eye types are supposed to be moneymakers. However, that’s... not how things are working out. Dragons with eyes besides Common are still selling for fodder price, especially the tints, Goat, and Faceted. Adding another layer of RNG in an attempt to artificially inflate the value of dragons doesn’t really work when thousands of dragons are hatched every day. And it doesn’t help people who want the eyes on their [b]own[/b] dragons, either. If I want to put Light Unusual eyes on one of my favorite dragons, the fact that I can hatch dragons with Light Unusual eyes does nothing for that. I’d be interested in buying a dragon with Light Unusual, provided I like the colours of the dragon in question, but that [i]still[/i] doesn’t help me get Unusual eyes on my favorite dragon. I don’t understand why we can’t have vials for the hatchable eye types coexisting with the hatchable eye types. That way, everyone can hatch something cool, but we can also get back the control we had over our projects. It’ll be way more expensive to give a dragon Primal than to buy a Primal on the AH, yeah, but the same can be said for Gem genes. Primal doesn’t pass down, so if someone wants to spend 1 million Treasure to give a single dragon some nifty, non-inheritable eyes, what’s the harm? It’s also worth noting that the reception of Gaolers has been 99% positive, with the only major complaint being “Man, Gaoler genes keep getting sniped on me in the MP”. Which is a minor thing that will clear up once the hype settles! The reception is so positive [b]because we have control[/b]. We can [b]choose[/b] to turn our dragons into Gaolers. We can [b]choose[/b] what genes they get. The scrolls and genes will be stocking in the MP all year round, there’s no stressful grindfest, and no fighting with RNG. People like this! People like being able to interact with new features! But we can’t interact with the Natural eyes outside of pure RNG, so they’re just... there. A frustrating novelty that might look awesome, but we can’t actively interact with it. :’/

I must have missed that post; thanks for quoting it!

It is pretty much as Jemadar said. By very nature, dragons aren't valuable. Any market will eventually plateau.

Eyes are no different. Because of the sheer number of users breeding dozens of dragons each, any and all rare eyes are going to go for fodder sooner rather than later.

The problem is cranking the RNG down so low in an artificial attempt to create rarity only erects massive barriers when it comes to breeding a dream dragon.

Sure, there's hundreds of dragons with primal. It's abundant. But if you want to breed for one specific dragons? Good luck!

And even with breeding in an attempt to foster rarity, it is still denying five (now six) years worth of users. People already like their dragons. They don't want to re-breed or buy new ones. They want their permas to enjoy the new feature. Since these are two different markets, creating individual eye vials would not harm the staff's vision of rare eyed hatches. It would alleviate frustration and allow effort to pay off like it always has.