Suggestions

Related to: [url=http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/2214047]Scry Codes for a "Temporary" Dragon![/url] Warning: IMAGE HEAVY! TL;DR - Please implement a toggle in Foresee Progeny to switch from hatchlings to adults previews (default hatchlings). ------------------- I have a problem with coatls. I am in love with their hatchling poses, especially if they have Ripple or Petals. [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=37&bodygene=5&breed=12&element=9&gender=0&tert=51&tertgene=16&winggene=18&wings=18&auth=81df17967da082487b3338531fc014dcaf0a5640&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=148&bodygene=13&breed=12&element=2&gender=1&tert=177&tertgene=0&winggene=8&wings=140&auth=c508c2ca8d335967e90e57a5e27148b3c8b94e08&dummyext=prev.png[/img] Coatl hatchlings have the cutest little front feet and ginormous eyes. They're like kittens, I impulse buy the things like popcorn because of their hatchling poses. However, they then grow into this: [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=37&bodygene=5&breed=12&element=9&gender=0&tert=51&tertgene=16&winggene=18&wings=18&auth=1f01bc3a34d14b00e14c30fdb47cecdb6897d8ec&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=148&bodygene=13&breed=12&element=2&gender=1&tert=177&tertgene=0&winggene=8&wings=140&auth=f059609e71dd317f6efbacff1e2fdbb12b4d035a&dummyext=prev.png[/img] Uggh, actually they suck............*Exalt*....... Why do I keep buying coatls? [right] "Hi! I'm only 40kt!" [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=151&bodygene=5&breed=12&element=5&gender=1&tert=35&tertgene=10&winggene=18&wings=58&auth=81da32c37fdfac281456a4722cb6cadeccdbdfd1&dummyext=prev.png[/img][/right] [center] Or, you know, who I actually bought yesterday for 50g. [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=113&bodygene=13&breed=12&element=3&gender=0&tert=39&tertgene=10&winggene=13&wings=101&auth=cb0eff40a78af23b7de8d3331813d500912d4a68&dummyext=prev.png[/img] (If you show up to this thread 5 days from now.) [url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=33798011] [img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/337981/33798011_350.png[/img] [/url] [/center] This then becomes more of an issue when I'm buying new dragons with plans to actually scroll them into coatls that I like. Putting them into Forsee Progeny just gives me waves and waves of adorable coatle feets and big green eyes and really can't make logical plans about color and genes. They ALL look great as babies, most grow up sucky, and their parents only sell for fodder. So... I hold off scrolling them, and then get bored of my impulse plan and exalt the could-have-been coatls anyway. Having something to toggle the offspring hatchling previews into offspring adult previous would be very handy, especially when genes seem to land kinda in different places on hatchlings and adults. Opal looks different based on breed and hatchling/adult pose, for example. (It flips to different legs, different feathers, gets different adult tones.) (This cutie is Robin/Raspberry/White) [left] [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=99&bodygene=17&breed=12&element=6&gender=0&tert=2&tertgene=17&winggene=14&wings=160&auth=5766a2d9533ec980c84f09b05977fc16ca67a52c&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=99&bodygene=17&breed=12&element=6&gender=0&tert=2&tertgene=17&winggene=14&wings=160&auth=74e7a1fa88eca82381ee6ccd1da90dafcae47df9&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [/left] [right] [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=99&bodygene=17&breed=13&element=6&gender=0&tert=2&tertgene=17&winggene=14&wings=160&auth=3c12f78af84356cfb85211bae7d0b2291b8b87e9&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=99&bodygene=17&breed=13&element=6&gender=0&tert=2&tertgene=17&winggene=14&wings=160&auth=59f767ccbf1e50a125f870dbfcaa8f51d6629245&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [/right] [center] [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=99&bodygene=17&breed=2&element=6&gender=0&tert=2&tertgene=17&winggene=14&wings=160&auth=59695c5c55c56ea217172670511ffedb7802d9cc&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=99&bodygene=17&breed=2&element=6&gender=0&tert=2&tertgene=17&winggene=14&wings=160&auth=a4c3d70206dcceb7aa2a8944c7808c2bfad23ecf&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [/center] So... you know... for the sake of better breeding/ genes and planning. Can we see what adult offsrping will look like, without having to go offsite to find all their gene/color ranges, and manually have to morphology scry each potential type of adult (this sucks mightily if you have dragons of different breeds and a range wither than 10 spaces.)

I don't think that is all that improtant. Isn't a certain spurprise the point of breeding outside of projects? You can scry the hatchling as soon as you got the result anyway. And there is no reason to check what a 'maybe' dragon will look like - if your range is as big as you described its unlikely you will get it anyway without careful planning. Which brings me back to breeding projects (the careful planning a breeding to reach a goal) where the user allready knows what they look for.

P.s: I also saw you ghostbumped. Its not really allowed on suggestions forum - only on sales. http://flightrising.com/main.php?p=wiki&article=66
Just in case you didn't know.

I would argue that the surprise comes from what you'll get in the end. I've forseen progeny in colors that I've never gotten in real life. But I would like to have an idea of what the gene output will look like with the colors they do have, especially with the phenotype tendencies that the previously mentioned genes produce.

Wow.... That's...really judgmental? Not everyone cares about or wants to breed XXX dragons, you know. Meet most of my breeding pairs. They either have wide as Kansas secondary or tertiary ranges. I love that they have a stupid wide ranges, I get plenty of fun surprises with their hatchlings with color variation,especially with genes that introduce extra colors. I LIKE that, that's what I like to breed. But when I want to switch genes on them, I would also like to know what their hatchlings will look like as adults, which they're going to spend an exponentially longer time as.

Hatching poses are often crumpled up, and markings that look big and distinctive aren't always that visible on their adult forms, which sort of ruins estimating what they'll look like once grown. Ripple on a coatl hatchling are thicker and bolder, on an adult they blur together on the chest, for example. Their key hatchling features are no longer so noticeable or attractive when they are adults, Re: Coatl front feet. You certainly can't see what Runes is going to do to the Skink side spots on a hatchling guardian/coatl/noc/PC/tundra.

If you'd look again at the Opal hatchling/adult dragons I've posted, on top of the same crumple issue, they don't keep entirely consistent in regards to gene placement between hatchling and adult form. At a very casual glance you can see the Opal on the coatle's knee switches place, it's tail gets a second patch of opal. On the SD, the hatchling tail tuft bit isn't there when it's an adult, and that's a big feature that suddenly goes missing, it takes up half of the hatchling tail tuft, the opal on the wing flips to the other side, the streaks on the head are on the other side. On the guardian the opal on the lower jaw disappears, the shoulder opal slips down to the upper arm, a new patch appears behind the elbow... and so on, and I don't doubt it's just Opal that does that in the finer details for any future gene down the line.

There's nothing wrong with the genes doing that, it's an interesting tendency. But, it would change my apparel/accent decisions if I can see where the gene effects are going to happen.


Anyway, it's a QOL suggestion, but it's good to see that there's nothing game breaking about it.

It's literally one of two things:

A. A toggle (in settings) to always see mini-dragon adult offspring in the forsee progeny section.

B. Or a second click where the default is still going to be a set of hatchling. You click" preview", set of four hatchlings, or you click "preview adults", and you see four adults. You click "preview" again, get a new set of four hatchlings, or you click "preview adults" and you get four new adults.

@Amut

Its not meant to be judgemental. I'm just direct. It just is a fact that there are two ways of breeding: The planned and the unplanned - projects verysus pairs if you so want.

I have my pairs with wide ranges - I do not plan what I get and breed to see what they will surprise me with - which makes any way of 'beforehandscrying' what hatchlings will look like adults a bit moot since I either don't know what hatchlings I get or i have the hatchlings allready and can easily check.

I also have breeding projects to get my dreamdragons - rare colorcombinations no one seems to breed because they are not the usually asked for dragons - they are XYZ with remotely mixing remotely crashing colors probably few people are interested in. Here I have a set goal of look I strive forward to and also don't need such a very specific feature.

Your 'problem' seems to be that you don't want any surprises but want surprises at the same time. You want to plan for dragons you might never get. While you love the dragons you have you sound afraid to give them the genes you want in case you don't like the offspring.

Thing is if you like the genes on the parents you'll likely like those same genes on the offspring. Its a really strange thing to me that you put so much emphasis on the hatchlings instead on of the parents. Do you have a strikt lore lair or some kind of lineage challenge running? Because that is about the only thing that comes to mind that would make new dragons more important than the looks of my permas for me. (I can accept if that is different for you for some reason.. people are different).

As for the toggle - I guess I could accpet that as long as it really is a toggle. Loading any additional pics in the preview would take an aweful lot of time and ressources when I'm on mobile. Sometimes hatching a 4 or 5 egg nest is allready... a trial of patience when outside.

Actually, I support this idea. It doesn't matter how useful it is, the fact that most of the dragons born will spend most of their lives as adults, I feel if the preview gives us adults it'll be much easier to decide whether I like that gene/colour combo of the offspring.

This is also from someone who likes to breed wide range colours. I don't care what I'll get in the end as long as they look good, but as hatchlings there are times when the preview is cute, they hatched cute, but grew up so-so. Or the hatchlings previewed ugly, hatched ugly, but grew up great. The difference between adult and hatchling is big enough for this suggestion to be useful.

Can we not argue about how each players plan their breeding pairs, and focus on how this suggestion can be useful? I understand it can be useless for those who only do close-range breedings, but it can be useful, and fun as well, to preview them as adults for those who are either just curious of the outcomes, or like wide-range breedings.

I support the idea of having two buttons to click. 'Preview hatchling' and 'Preview adult'. Click either one will give you a preview of 4 hatchlings or 4 adults. It's basically the same as it is now, no extra pictures are generating, it's just what is generated can be chose to be adult or hatchling.

@Ismaiel Dude. It's the exact same output as the Forsee Progeny scryer already. Except there is an option to show it as the default hatchlings or as adults, because they're going to be adults much longer than they will be hatchlings, especially since exalts now row up. It makes sense to be able to see what they'll spend the majority of their lives as. There is no hovertext to tell you what colors are being shown in each hatchling preview, if there were, it'd be easy to copy it to morphology and there would really be no need for this suggestion. But there isn't, so here we are. The hatchling forms are occasionally not representative of the adult forms in regards to gene expression, and some hatchling poses cover critical areas of gene expression in adults. Which is another good reason to want to see an adult preview sometimes. I'm not sure where you're dragging all the rest of the not planning nests and not liking surprises and stuff in from. [quote=But to address it all anyway....] ... It's still kinda judgemental. So you plan your breedings out, even your weird ones. That's fine, and that's how you play this breeding sim game. I buy my dragons for lore, [i]then[/i] I figure out how to make them pretty with genes and accents, that's the way I play. I suspect you don't do this when you want to examine dragons, because you appear to buy and breed in a Top-Down and End-Goal way. You either know you're going to get X output from the start, so there's no need to look. Or you have X output in mind from the start, so it doesn't matter what the parents look like, if it isn't X-output, you discard it. So again, there's no reason to see a "could have been" from your perspective. Don't think I don't understand where you're coming from. However..... I buy and breed dragons in more of an Apples to Pork sort of way. Sure they're both food, but you have to do special stuff to enjoy them both at the same time. They're fully planned, so yeah, still rather judgmental to say I don't put thought or time or effort and planning into what I breed because I want a wide variety of offspring phenotypes but within desired parameters. [quote] Thing is if you like the genes on the parents you'll likely like those same genes on the offspring. Its a really strange thing to me that you put so much emphasis on the hatchlings instead on of the parents. [/quote] There a lot of genes that I straight up don't like on some of my permas because of what it does with their particular colors, [i]but [/i]in their pairings it gives me pleasant hatchlings (I have a Gold Poison/Red Iri pairing, and I'm not thrilled with the Gold Poison, but I like the Hot-range Poisons on their offspring, I have another that pairs Rose to Soil terts, but danged if they don't somehow keep throwing pretty XY-nearY offspring together. So it's not nearly so simple as you're making it out to be. I have another lore pair, that have to keep their genes for lore, or because there are no acceptable alternatives that "fit" them. But their genes are old and garbage and on every one of their offspring I've kept, the genes need changing, [i]extensively[/i] in some cases. [quote] Do you have a strikt lore lair or some kind of lineage challenge running? Because that is about the only thing that comes to mind that would make new dragons more important than the looks of my permas for me. [/quote] First, thank you very much for being critical of the way I like to enjoy my time here. Everyone knows people love being told their hobbies and asethetics are not right according to some else. Heaven forfend I like to change up genes every so often... or not at all, and would like help to decide between so-so perma genes and gorgeous hatchlings, or to change up a permas genes for whatever reason and get garbage hatchlings. I don't have a problem with "surprises" or have overly strict lore more than I have a particular threshold for "unknown knowns" before I spend money on things. I [i]know [/i] my theoretical X pairing will give me Runes, I [b]don't [/b]know if I'm going to see those Runes half the time because the parents have weirdo Skink/Poison. If I'm not going to see Runes in a good chunk of random sampling of their offspring potential, why bother buying Runes? I'll leave them as Spines/Scales instead. Let's understand something, this isn't a new or novel thing. I basically do this examination already. But it means dredging up several outside services to perform the same simple function that's already available, but not connected, in the scryer. I could examine every gene/color combo output I'd like without ever needing this suggestion. I already work without it. Let me walk you through my current process: First I'd have to go to pull up their color ranges from Fintastic, because I like the bar swatches. Then go to Keenrosa to figure out the percentage of hatchlings with the two differently priced treasure genes, then calculate what ratio I should get out of 10 or 20 4-packs of predicted hatchlings so I can tell how many times I should refresh it before seeing the "correct" probabilities. [b]Then [/b] I go dig through Tumblr to find the names of the color swatches from Fintastic, so I can type them in because Fintastic & Keenrosa don't have hovertext of the color names. Then I open up the morphology scryer in two windows to at least to look at the 2 results side by side, then type in swatch colors and compare minute differences in shades of Dust to Antique Toxin through Periwinkle to Metals Opal one at a time between 2 common breeds. Since you're so concerned about loading additional pics slowing things down. Since I'm not getting a nice shotgun scatterplot of color/gene combos like I would, four at a time, in the preview. I instead look up every color/gene combo at once, one by one. Where I'd only need 5 refreshes of the forsee page to be happy with some general idea of output probability, I end up using the scryer, in parallel about 100 more times instead, because while I'm there, I may as well check and see if the male/female parts looks different too because there are poses I like more, and genes I'll only tolerate on particular poses. Oh, and I'm screwed if Fintastic disappears or that tumblr page gets deleted. And that's probably only a matter of time. I do this [i]ALREADY [/i]and after more than a year, I'm sorta tired of doing it. I barely want to regene my old pairs with the new gene options because of all the work involved in seeing how it'll look in the future, because I kinda like their kids already. Because, again, they're lore dragons first, and they don't fall into the easy "well if you like the parents, you'll like the hatchlings" line, they usually don't. OR, you know, I could just toggle or click "Preview Adults", since it's all there already using all the stuff that I have to currently strip out of the site, recombine and then plug back in to use, and keep everything contained on FR where I know it'll all stay. [/quote]

I think this is a good suggestion. I'd like having this. You know, not super high priority, but it would be a reasonable thing to add as a nice feature.

After all, in comparison to the life of a dragon, they spend approximately no time as a hatchling. What you see in the scry preview (whether it shows hatchlings or adults) doesn't change what you hatch, of course not. But there's really no difference. And if we really want a "breeding game surprise" then it would be just as effective to only show adults and have the hatchling version be a surprise.

Amut, now you mentioned male/female, I think that would be the biggest potential problem with previewing in adults, since the site also has to randomly pick a gender which, I don't know if is already in the preview coding. Maybe just always show 2 males and 2 females when preview as adults?

Other than that, yes everything's already there. We just need to have it link to the offspring preview.

@hat17 And the suggestion of showing 2 males / 2 females pretty much solves that, I think. :D

But honestly, I wouldn't care if it showed all males/all females in the previewer, 1 male/ 3 females or vice versa. There doesn't seem to be the crumpling, wings over body issue in adults like there is in hatchlings, so honestly, if they were set to be all male, I wouldn't mind it at all. I'd still be able to see all of the adult output. The admins are pretty egalitarian though, so I suspect they'd go 2 males + 2 females as the adult setting.

I just look at both sexes when I Iooked them all up manually because the morphology scryer has it as an option and it's like, "Well... since I"m here anyway". I don't always flip them back and forth, usually I just set them to female and check colors/genes from there, lol, (but some breeds, like WCs, nocs, spirals and bogs I like differently, so I do almost always flip those back and forth)

Support. + I think.. they actually do determine gender already? there's def a toggle for it in the url.

http://flightrising.com/image_generators/100pxbabies2.php?style=8&ages=0&gender=1&prig=1&body=67&secg=5&wing=67&elem=5&tertg=5&tert=7

here's a url btw. I just scryed a couple babies + opened in new tabs to get it. I think all they'd really need to do is make the 'ages' function work and allow you to set it to one? currently messing with it does nothing. probably because it's a separate generator.

In the meantime though.. you can mostly plug those numbers into a scry and get what you're looking for without the need to look up colors and labels at least. I hope this.. helps?