Flight Rising Discussion

@dggeoff
I'm honestly not sure, all I know is that I feel the depression-stage fast approaching as I fear no changes will be implemented no matter how much we beg and no one will be happy with this update ;-;

At least we're getting a revert to common option. That's a plus
I guess I'll wait and see what the future of eyes behold

I am sorry, but did people really spend real money on chance items?
And... uh asking for refunds?
Something went fundamentally wrong here.

To note down my opinion here, I do not think refunds will be issued (but maybe the staff will prove me wrong, idk).
And before you all reach to grab the pitchforks, please let me elaborate.

Two key mistakes were made here:
1) Staff
I understand the RNG element of vials, it looked like a fun idea, right?
And since its RNG, let us make them obtainable, so people can roll again.
It's all good so far. What went wrong?
Well...
The player marketplace and individual decisions mutated the vials into full blown gambling. That's right. 18+ Gambling.
I have faith in the staff, that this was not their original intention, and they simply overlooked the facts that:
- players who have Vials can offer to sell them for gems
- players who do not have Vials can buy gems, to get the chance item.
And this is gambling...

I see an incoming argument about Scatterscrolls, yes.
But before you raise said argument: note, that Scatterscrolls do not really yield "win" and "loss" results. Players are comfortable because if they roll a dissatisfactory colour combimantion, they can just get another once they have the funds. Plus, players tend to buy dragons whose colours they prefer to begin with.
Vials differ due to:
- the sense or urgency
- vast difference between result (barely visible vs awesome)
- retrospective modifications (ie: ALL players having dragons they could and potentially want to chance-change)

All that said, I am not sure how could this have been avoided...
Maybe making the Vials not tradesble? Nah, players would still swap dragons, and charge for the service.
I guess making the Vials permanent would have resolved that (even if I personally don't agree with that - I am probably alone on the site with that lol).

I think what was missing, was a HUGE enphasis from the staff's side to highlight the chance nature of the item. This should have been The First after seeing the implementation has gone wrong.
Finally, they could and should have included the actual, percentage chances for each eye type for both Breeding and Vials on the announcement page.

2) The Players
Yes. You all, who bought gems for Vials and now complain for refunds are not blameless either.
I appreciate that the majority of this site is underage, and as such might not have the life exprience to assess things appropriately (gambling is age restricted for a reason). But any player who bought and used a vials should have been aware though, that nothing is guaranteed!
Even if chances are 50/50, you CAN roll the wrong one 10 times in a row.
Bottom line:
If you are spending money of something random, do not complain if you do not get what you want. It is your personal responsibilty how you use your (or godforbid your parents'...) money. Sure, a site/game can encourage you to do that... but ultimately, it's still your own decision.

I did not use a single scatter sight scroll. But after this announcement I did send a request for a refund. After two years of collecting older dragons, I was finally right at "happy" with my collection and began the process of scattering and purchasing accents and apparel for my dragons. There are accents I bought partly because I loved how they interacted with the eyes or expression of the dragon. There are scatters I did or didn't keep based on the dragon eyes (when you are willing to scatter dragons, there is little else to choose to keep or not relatively good scatter!). There are breed changes I would have never made with these current dragons, either preferring older breeds or disliking the eyes of current breeds. I have some apparel, though thankfully here not as many, I purchased to match around my dragons, including the eyes.

My reason for purchasing these items and the gems was heavily impacted by the change of art. I made these purchases and decisions on good faith that major changes affecting all my dragons would not happen. Essentially what I was purchasing - the ability to customize a specific set piece of art - was fundamentally changed without my knowledge or approval.

Had that happened in literally any other venue, there would be no question as to whether or not I have a "right" to a refund. No one would be questioning if I was over reacting.

I have spent a lot on this game, justifying not owning a car or spending money on other forms of entertainment to do so...basically putting it into my entertainment budget. Why on earth would I or anyone knowingly pay for something that could be changed on a whim for any reason? Of course I am upset. And I am justifyably worried. What else to old dragon lineart might the site just decide to change and...too bad so sad to casual, nonpaying customers and paying customers alike?

I sympathise with everything else others have said, and maybe agree with some of it. But I also understand and agree with most of what the admin has done. What I absolutely cannot understand or condone is the change of product. What I liked about my old dragons--the ability to customize them within given perimeters---was taken.

I don't even mind not ever being able to use different eyes for them (though that would be weird, it's a new feature and up to the staff), what I do mind is that they were changed.

Asking for a refund when something is not what you purchased is not wrong. It's actually the right thing to do. Users used scattersight in good faith that it would operate and was meant to be operated as other random features in the game. I think that was an oversight o their part, but communication was so poor that I think some form of olive branch should be offered.

I am not willing to say, "I will be content when the staff learns to communicate." Yeah, that'd help. But it's pathetically low standards. I am willing to be satisfied when the users are able to act in good faith based on what is offered and not have both taken from them. Also kind of low standards, to be honest. But I am willing to take that and be satisfied.

I thought I'd throw my own suggestion to the pile...personally, I like this feature pretty much as-is, and I get what you were trying to do with the lore, but I also see why some people are salty.

• Make the chance of getting each pair of eyes from the Vial of Scattersight equal.
  
  The vials will still be retired, but players will be able to get the eye types that they want for their dragons using a smaller number of vials (but still, probably, more than one). This might result in a large number of dragons with rare eye types, but I don't believe the impact on the market will be enormous. Players want to use these scrolls on dragons they keep - permadragons/projects - not some random dragons they plan on immediately dumping on the AH.
  
  As the scrolls become rarer, they will be used, more and more, on only the most precious of dragons - much like imperial scrolls. (And, much like imperials, older dragons or G1s with special eyes will increase in value.) The limited nature of the vials already means that the vast majority of dragons hatched before this feature was introduced will never even have a chance at getting those different eyes. Making it possible to acquire specific eye types now will make the retirement of the vials more palatable to the user base in the future (this is why we mostly just accept imperial scrolls as an unachievable dream, because they *were* achievable at one time...with reliable results).
  
  
• As a consequence of above...refund all the vials that have been used, or a high percentage (50%-80% feels right to me, but I'm not a statistician) of them.
  
  Some players spent hundreds of vials (and maybe even hundreds of real dollars) trying to get a particular eye type, only to fail. Returning their vials will foster goodwill with the user base and allow them to recoup some of their losses. It might flood the market with vials briefly, but the ultimately limited quantity will balance this out in time. Plus, more users will be able to purchase and use the scrolls to create the dragons they want. Many have likely given up already with the percentages as they are and the skyrocketing price of vials.

[quote name="RueColdFire" date="2018-06-13 11:30:55" ] [quote name="DeadBattery" date="2018-06-13 07:21:53" ] Seeing that this thread is still going strong and that many people, especially oldies and those people who have spent the most time, resources and actual real-life money on customising their existing and old dragons are being left out from fairly participating in this event, I thought it would be a good idea to share this here with you. I don't know how much attention this will get, if any, but it is definitely worth a try. This wouldn't just help out with the gameplay, it would actually be fitting lore-wise as well. I am very aware that the developers' goal was to add a new feature to the game which will either be accessible through breeding or through hatching elemental eggs. Lore-wise, the elemental energies became stronger, resulting in genetic mutation primarily in hatchlings and developing dragons, therefore that was the reason why they wanted this new feature to be something accessible only from now on, and it didn't count old dragons. However, since this was the 5 Year Anniversary and this site would not have existed today if it weren't for dedicated older players, it seems a bit unfair to leave those people out, especially those ones with many old perma dragons who fully deserve to be a part of this. I understand the Staff's intention, but it was still a bad execution, and it happened because it appears that the Staff simply wasn't aware of a lot of diversity in how people interact with this site. Not all people participate in breeding or perhaps they simply don't want their dragons to be bred, but acquired as G1 dragons. Being a G1 collector already takes away the opportunity to get the exact colours you've been searching for, and with this update, customisation is even harder. Of course, we were the ones who chose this type of gameplay, but that doesn't mean that all gameplay styles shouldn't have a fairly equal opportunity in customising their beloved dragons. Yes, the lore is a major part of this website, but it wasn't always forced on people. Personally, I follow the lore but there's many people who don't, and adding a feature this major, this grand and interesting, and leaving out those players who've been here the longest is hurtful. Below are some suggestions how most problems could be fixed while still keeping those rare eye types...well, rare. I saw this suggestion on Tumblr and in the forums, and thought very hard about it, tried customising some icons, coding, searching for proper materials and swap items, etc, and thought this was a really good proper idea on how to include everyone yet still bring a new, interesting mechanic that's not easy to obtain, but it remains [b]fair[/b]. I present to you, various eye vials: [LIST] [*]The Vial of Primal Sight could easily be a rare Coliseum drop during festivals which would be perfectly lore-fitting since canonically the elemental energies are the strongest at that time. The effect the energies would have on existing and developing dragons would be immense hence the reason why that sort of implementation would be perfect. It would calm the community down, it would add a unique and interesting way of obtaining the Vials, it would be effective and the AH prices would still stay high. If the drop rate was similar to egg or Eliminate drops, the prices would still stay very high. You might be thinking "hey, but what about those people who don't do coli-ing?" See, they'd still be able to purchase the Vials. It would be expensive, but it would be fair, everyone would have an equal chance. [img]https://orig00.deviantart.net/a1fe/f/2018/163/7/b/26775_by_horus_the_gryphon-dce6m4o.png[/img] [*]The Multi-Gaze vial should be able to be brewed because of the unnatural and intimidating look they give a dragon, perfectly fitting for alchemy. Of course, lore-wise creating a scroll or a "magic potion" won't change any creature's genetics ever because it's impossible, but game-wise it would be the perfect addition. The Vial's recipe would only be active during Festivals, at a very high level because of its rarity, and probably require pricey and hard-to-obtain materials. It would make sense canonically as well since extreme radiation, energy surges and chemicals could easily mutate a creature. It would look something like this: [img]https://orig00.deviantart.net/bb61/f/2018/163/7/d/untitled2_by_horus_the_gryphon-dce6nkn.png[/img] [*]The Faceted vial should be a Swipp exclusive, again only available as a rarely occurring trade at the Stand which requires rare materials. The requirements could easily be something like this: [img]https://orig00.deviantart.net/78ef/f/2018/163/a/1/untitled1_by_horus_the_gryphon-dce6nky.png[/img] [/LIST] This sort of implementation would fix all current problems (with only phobias as an exception). It would fix: [LIST=1] [*]The problem related to the inability to customise the physicial attributes of old, unique and irreplacable dragons [*]The problem with all players and dragons prior to this event being left out and the new feature not being oriented towards customising already existing dragons [*]The issue regarding the punishing nature of this sort of new-feature-implementation towards players whose playing style is not related to owning hatcheries, breeding dragons or having breeding projects. [*]The inconvenience the Scattersight Vials have caused in the past few days as well as their permanent retirement and the odds of getting rarer eye types since the gameplay would be more fair [*]The problem regarding future players who will be joining the site and not having the opportunity to own a Vial of Scattersight [*]The problem related to miniature and unfair odds of getting rare eye types [*]The issue with not allowing the oldest, most dedicated players to be fully able to customise their beloved dragon since the main goal of this dragon clan simulator is to be able to obtain and customise the dragon you'd like to own without unrealistic and too punishing requirements, especially gambling [/LIST] This new feature would still be available through breeding which would bring a new interesting element to breeding and to those who participate in it. The Vial of Scattersight would remain retired as the developers had originally intended, it would be able to potentially roll rare eye types but it would mainly be used to give old dragons the chance to obtain more common natural eye types such as Uncommon, Unusual and Rare since those are not as hard to obtain as the others are. The roll chances of Vials of Scattersight would remain the same but with these new three vials players would have a better and more decent chance of getting rarer eye types while the most important elements would finally be implemented - equality and equity. The other three vials would be used to give the player a guaranteed chance of giving their dragon the eyes they want, while obtaining the vials would still be tricky, causing the prices to stay high and the market circulating. The vials could be sold in the AH, they would go for high prices and other players who would want to use them on their dragons would be highly encouraged to purchase Gems which would eventually aid in bettering this site and expanding its array of future features. The revert-to-common Vial would be implemented as promised which would calm the community down, allow those players whose breeding projects were ruined to revert to common eyes and change the primary use of scattersight vials to giving older existing dragons more common eye types. The implementation of these vials would tone down the unrest and dissatisfaction among players, especially the oldest players who spent the most time playing, spent the most money and those who've been supporting this site the longest. The vials would keep the market of vials circulating, it would better the FR economy and it would be a stable type of income for many players. The lore would remain the same. This new feature would primarily be oriented towards newer dragons, but older dragons would still have the chance to mutate. Creatures on this planet are physically and most importantly genetically connected to elemental energies which means the sudden enhancement of those energies wouldn't just affect developing dragons, but all other existing beings too. Thank you for reading, and thank you, FRew, for going through our constructive criticism and considering our ideas. This is a community-oriented website after all, we just want everyone to have equal chance and have a positive experience. [/quote] I love this, very beautifully done and it feels so much more fair. I love the idea of the primal being a festival only rare coli drop that just feels SO right to me uwu [/quote]