Flight Rising Discussion

@Xhaztol

I have a question that's also kind of a feedback request?

When you guys do eventually implement the AGI change, will it / can it have it's own beta test before going live?

Testing it would relieve a lot of nerves about this getting put on us in live.

Added also, thank you regardless for holding this off and not lumping it with the technical stuff.

Thank you for listening to feedback and holding off on changing how stat work until later so they can be balanced as a whole. [quote name="bryna" date=2018-01-31 14:18:58][s][/s] I understand that the way that a lot of users use coli may or may [b]not[/b] but the way coli was meant to be implemented (and this can be seen by the way that fairgrounds grinding is as well) but I think that it's important to give users the opportunity to min-max games and breed that level of efficiency that sometimes overwhelms the "fun" aspect of games......because to some users like Culex and other creators of well-known builds the technical min-maxing IS the fun part. Personally I would be interested in seeing new venues that had enemies that required more intricate playstyles that had greater rewards- but still allowed for some degree of fodder leveling. Maybe there are venues where magic-users are REQUIRED to succeed, so elim could be deflated. Maybe there could be venues where you HAVE to have a tank to do well. I think adding more complexity is better than radically shifting what already exists- fodder levelers are the backbone of the FR economy, and messing with their groove could have massively negative effects on the player base. That being said, I'm excited for so many things in the new coli, and with the knowledge that it won't include radical stat shifting, I know it'll be easier to focus on functionality. [/quote] I was also thinking of something more along these lines. I don't want to lose what we already have for the current venues, but I would love to see more variety in new venues, providing alternate places to battle at the same levels as existing venues. I would be thrilled to have some more level 25 venues to choose from that each require different builds or strategies to grind them effectively, and/or venues all the way up that are geared toward different builds so there would be places well suited to leveling a team of mages or a balanced team of different builds.

Thank you!

[quote name="DragonMaiden" date=2018-01-31 14:32:50] [quote name="bryna" date=2018-01-31 14:18:58] Whew! Glad to hear it! EDIT: [quote name="Xhaztol" date=2018-01-31 14:08:54] I should reiterate that we do plan on addressing stats at a later date, especially as we look toward the future for the feature. I need that to be clear. Of course, we're going to try our hardest to approach those changes in a way that fulfills our goals of allowing the Coliseum to expand and scale and makes sense for the players and how they have become accustomed to using it. We got a lot of good feedback and we're going to do what we can to be considerate towards that when we get to that point. [/quote] I understand that the way that a lot of users use coli may or may [b]not[/b] but the way coli was meant to be implemented (and this can be seen by the way that fairgrounds grinding is as well) but I think that it's important to give users the opportunity to min-max games and breed that level of efficiency that sometimes overwhelms the "fun" aspect of games......because to some users like Culex and other creators of well-known builds find the technical min-maxing the fun part. Personally I would be interested in seeing new venues that had enemies that required more intricate playstyles that had greater rewards- but still allowed for some degree of fodder leveling. Maybe there are venues where magic-users are REQUIRED to succeed, so elim could be deflated. Maybe there could be venues where you HAVE to have a tank to do well. I think adding more complexity is better than radically shifting what already exists- fodder levelers are the backbone of the FR economy, and messing with their groove could have massively negative effects on the player base. That being said, I'm excited for so many things in the new coli, and with the knowledge that it won't include radical stat shifting, I know it'll be easier to ficus on functionality. [/quote] ^I really like this idea. Gives the best of both worlds and it keeps the 'fun' going for the coli users [/quote] Seconding this. I don't want to see fodder training times get way longer. I use the Coli a lot because I find it relaxing. Longer times (especially much longer), will probably make it less enjoyable. So hopefully that's avoidable. However, I'd also really like to see a variety of [i]useful[/i] builds, not just viable. As in, a mage setup is viable now--but it's not useful, because it's so noticeably slower than glass cannons. I have multiple Coli teams set up because I tend to get bored of a single venue or a single style. I use Anticitank because it's slower, but it's surer. When I just want to zone out or get fodder leveled with minimal fuss, I run Anticitank. It's more relaxing than Mire Flyer, which is more of a risk (imo) but also goes faster. Kelp Beds double team is good for leveling to really high levels, like 10+ or max. That's the sort of variety I'm talking about, though I'd welcome even more types. Each of those builds works well, but they're best for a variety of situations. Building (heh) off the suggestion quoted above, maybe venues where you need to have a specific, slower build offer greater XP as well? So that the battles are slower, but equal or close to current fodder builds. Or maybe the battles are faster, but give less XP. Or the battles are more frustrating/unpredictable (dodges, for example--hello Mire) but faster & more rewarding. Etc etc. They'd have to be venues where you can get XP with level 25's, ofc. Even if it wasn't optimal, as long as it was within the range of the current builds, I'd probably run it. Anyhow, thanks for taking player feedback! I look forward to the Coli update and I'm hoping it brings lots of refreshing changes.

Oh man. I have mixed feelings. I'm kind of disappointed on having to wait for the stat rebalancing, but waiting does make sense so we can focus primarily on performance.

I was kind of looking forward to the overall challenge in the Coli, even though I wasn't looking forward to having to adjust the stats of my already leveled up dragons. (Though I think someone did mention a suggestion of giving free extra stat points to add to AGI, which seems plausible to me.) The general focus of my lore is the struggle for survival, and it's not much of a struggle when my dergs can literally step on the other beasts like bugs.

If we're getting tincturess with the launch of the new Coli, does that mean we won't be getting any when AGI is fixed at a later date?

@Pheonyx

The issue was is that most people don't put points into AGI, the current builds and available points are so tight that there's only a few points anyone can put into AGI, for the debatable "fun" of getting critical hits. *

The coli enemies we have now, from what I understand, are already "low AGI", and we already have a dodge issue. An AGI fix would increase the enemy dodge and allow users to add AGI points to their dragons to improve their own dodge and crit rates. However, most current builds do not have spare points that can be thrown into AGI. So points would have to be taken out of STR or QCK or VIT to be put into AGI just to have a chance of even hitting an enemy. AGI would go from being a bonus-perk stat, to a vital stat, one that we don't have enough points to spend on.

So if you take points out of STR, then scratches and eliminates are weaker and take more hits to kill an enemy. If you take points out of QCK, you have fewer chances to attack while the enemy strikes at you more, if you take points out of VIT, you're going to have to hope you get casters so you can scratch them up before they get a chance to hit you first.


*I say debatable because crits, for the user end, appear random. A crit Eliminate was one you were going to Eliminate anyway. A Scratch that gets a crit, won't finish off the enemy with just another scratch, so needs an Eliminate anyway, effectively the same as the Scratch + Eliminate you were going to do anyway. So Crits are fun to see, but no one has a strategy that depends on getting crits, that is impossible.

Sounds like the good plan. Changing too much at once is likely to confuse everyone and probably result in a lesser result (and less helpful feedback during testing) than if you take your time and focus on one thing at a time. :)

[quote name="Pheonyx" date=2018-01-31 15:33:09] Can someone fill me in on what the worry with AGI was? I was under the impression that the changes would make enemies dodge less, and that's what everyone wanted. Like, I get wanting to not change balancing issues in a technical beta, but why are we resisting this? [/quote] To my knowledge Xhaztol said in the original update that: [quote]Agility has been a fairly imbalanced stat since the beginning, so in order to counteract it in the current version of Coliseum, we've been implementing enemies with intentionally low AGI stats so that high level monsters are not absolutely horrible to fight against.[/quote] And many players (including myself) took that to mean that the monsters in higher level venues as on "easy mode" right now, meaning that correcting AGI stats could make dodge rates higher. Furthermore, rebalancing AGI will make it so that every build that currently exists would change, and unless beasts all went through with rebalancing, most of the builds we know and love now simply would not work the same, and likely fodder leveling would be slower. Whether or not this is what was actually meant by that line in the original update, I don't know. But that's what a lot of people have read into it.