I also think that functions are not a huge objective around a site that rather depends largely on cosmetics. At that point, what would be the point of having dragons outside of the Coliseum which is technically more of a functional need? Flight Rising that focuses on Coliseum as their objective wouldn't be Flight Rising we know right now. And this is just ignoring apparel which is well, cosmetics as well. Dragons are such a huge part of the site rather than cosmetic skins within games that don't focus on cosmetics to play. Flight Rising is a site that focuses on cosmetics. I think asking objectives rather than functions is a better question to ask for Flight Rising in terms of these items.
I also think that functions are not a huge objective around a site that rather depends largely on cosmetics. At that point, what would be the point of having dragons outside of the Coliseum which is technically more of a functional need? Flight Rising that focuses on Coliseum as their objective wouldn't be Flight Rising we know right now. And this is just ignoring apparel which is well, cosmetics as well. Dragons are such a huge part of the site rather than cosmetic skins within games that don't focus on cosmetics to play. Flight Rising is a site that focuses on cosmetics. I think asking objectives rather than functions is a better question to ask for Flight Rising in terms of these items.
Girl if I only wanted an item because it is rare and special, why would I be advocating for it to become less rare as that directly makes it less special? ????
Girl if I only wanted an item because it is rare and special, why would I be advocating for it to become less rare as that directly makes it less special? ????
[quote name="Contaminate" date="2023-03-06 01:14:16" ]
No support. It's actually fine for 0.1% of items in a feature with basically zero functional advantage aren't available to the majority
Familiars are worth baseline 12 gems and 11,500 treasure, and at max 30 gems 27,494 treasure. That is the functional value advantage possessed by someone with a Light Sprite over someone who doesn't own one.
People want the retired familiars for prestige and because they're rare, not because they're being locked out of anything by not having them.
[/quote]
lol, no, I just like collecting things, the fest stuff could be worth 1 gem for all I care. I still would've gotten it
And please don't make assumptions like that, it's why these threads tend to get locked because of that sort of behaviour
you can disagree without making assumptions y'know?
Contaminate wrote on 2023-03-06 01:14:16:
No support. It's actually fine for 0.1% of items in a feature with basically zero functional advantage aren't available to the majority
Familiars are worth baseline 12 gems and 11,500 treasure, and at max 30 gems 27,494 treasure. That is the functional value advantage possessed by someone with a Light Sprite over someone who doesn't own one.
People want the retired familiars for prestige and because they're rare, not because they're being locked out of anything by not having them.
lol, no, I just like collecting things, the fest stuff could be worth 1 gem for all I care. I still would've gotten it
And please don't make assumptions like that, it's why these threads tend to get locked because of that sort of behaviour
you can disagree without making assumptions y'know?
I think something to consider is to not think of the playerbase as a static number. We're getting new players in all the time, new players that might want to collect the familiars or go hog wild dressing up dragons. They're going to be in the market too.
Also, we're probably not getting petsite greenhorns who don't know how anything works. There's FR sections on other petsites, so a "newbie" here, isn't necessarily a newbie somewhere else. They're going to come into FR wanting to buy big things. I don't think they should be cut out of the market, or forced to liquidate something bigticket somewhere else to pick up a Y1 item here.
I don't think Roundsey is really a viable option. As mentioned, whales are a problem. And where 80,000 and RNG no one can influence is in a Jox box.
80kt buys 160 Roundsey chances to win absolutely nothing, OR at least 1 trinket thing someone might like and a coin to buy a recolor.
Nothing's stopping anyone from dropping 80 million in to make certain the RNG goes their way. And then what do we get? Exactly one 230kg Light sprite on the player-purchase market.
I got my heavy lesson about whales and raffles Y2 here, and I've never dumped a ticket in Roundsey for the same reason.
Now, I don't recall if it was in this thread or another, but I'd found an player convo about Y1 items, and how people thought it would be the same items next year. So yeah, those items came into the game at probably lower than they shoud've been levels, because no one realized they had exactly one chance to buy them to begin with.
With the possibility of that:
1) artificially smaller (than following Y1 seasons) Light item pool to begin with (between the awful gathering rng and coli being atrocious. It used to be 1g:81t for a reason back then, and player expectations on future availability)
2) A constantly growing userbase + a constantly shrinking target RNG per fest/year
3) An actual limit on how many boxes can even be created per fest
4) Favoritism for no specific reason for Y1 items
Roundsey isn't a solution, but Jox box at least lets a potential trickle of items in every year, and only a trickle, when you get down to the math done earlier. So someone can only sell their light sprites for 180kg instead of 230kg, because there's all of four more around that month to drive down the price, wow, *tiny violin*.
I think something to consider is to not think of the playerbase as a static number. We're getting new players in all the time, new players that might want to collect the familiars or go hog wild dressing up dragons. They're going to be in the market too.
Also, we're probably not getting petsite greenhorns who don't know how anything works. There's FR sections on other petsites, so a "newbie" here, isn't necessarily a newbie somewhere else. They're going to come into FR wanting to buy big things. I don't think they should be cut out of the market, or forced to liquidate something bigticket somewhere else to pick up a Y1 item here.
I don't think Roundsey is really a viable option. As mentioned, whales are a problem. And where 80,000 and RNG no one can influence is in a Jox box.
80kt buys 160 Roundsey chances to win absolutely nothing, OR at least 1 trinket thing someone might like and a coin to buy a recolor.
Nothing's stopping anyone from dropping 80 million in to make certain the RNG goes their way. And then what do we get? Exactly one 230kg Light sprite on the player-purchase market.
I got my heavy lesson about whales and raffles Y2 here, and I've never dumped a ticket in Roundsey for the same reason.
Now, I don't recall if it was in this thread or another, but I'd found an player convo about Y1 items, and how people thought it would be the same items next year. So yeah, those items came into the game at probably lower than they shoud've been levels, because no one realized they had exactly one chance to buy them to begin with.
With the possibility of that:
1) artificially smaller (than following Y1 seasons) Light item pool to begin with (between the awful gathering rng and coli being atrocious. It used to be 1g:81t for a reason back then, and player expectations on future availability)
2) A constantly growing userbase + a constantly shrinking target RNG per fest/year
3) An actual limit on how many boxes can even be created per fest
4) Favoritism for no specific reason for Y1 items
Roundsey isn't a solution, but Jox box at least lets a potential trickle of items in every year, and only a trickle, when you get down to the math done earlier. So someone can only sell their light sprites for 180kg instead of 230kg, because there's all of four more around that month to drive down the price, wow, *tiny violin*.
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Everyone's made good points about how the ~rarity~ or ~prestige~ is not what drives many (most?) to want the old fest items. It's also clear to anyone who spends 2 seconds looking around at lairs that utilitarian "functionality" is not what people value either- just try offering fodder price/a fodder swap for people's permas, because after all all dragons have the same functional value and that's the only thing that matters right? /s
But regardless, putting the 77 fest items left out with the others in JoxBoxes probably wouldn't even impact their values too much- we just have so many at this point that the pool is so diluted it wouldn't make a huge impact, and that's only going to be more true as time goes on. It's sort of like how purchasing 10 vs 100 vs 1000 tickets at Roundsey doesn't really make an impact even though you are multiplying your odds by 10 each time, because your odds are overwhelmingly low to begin with.
For a refresher, here's the math:
[quote name="beautifulglitter" date="2023-02-22 07:46:12" ]
At the end of this fest cycle, there will be 242 fest items in the 95% pull chance pool (bears are in the bonus slot, the remaining 5% is for recolors). 77 fest items will remain arbitrarily hard-retired and only available through Roundsey.
This means that the odds of pulling any 1 old fest item would be:
[center]Currently: 0.39%
If all items were added: 0.30%[/center]
This is what that means for the chances of pulling any 1 item you want:
[img]https://imgur.com/R9X0Z2J.png[/img]
For context, if you ever went more than 27 chests this NotN without pulling an egg, you had a less than 10% of doing so and would need at least that 90% category in this case should your luck remain the same.
(Note: Those prices are if you manage to acquire every single chest at the 80kT Joxar sells at (and a 1:1000 g:T ratio). This isn't realistic, those prices would be WAY higher in actuality.)
If all items were added you would have to open [b]over 21 years worth of chests[/b] just to have a 50% chance of getting your item, [i]and[/i] that's only if the pool [b]never expands again[/b] after this fest cycle.
At this point the pool is large enough that there will be no "flooding" of the market; at most, prices will likely just stabilize where they are now, especially as each cycle year currently adds 33 more items into the pool.
[/quote]
There's just no reason to not treat fest items equally when it would take literal [i]decades[/i] worth of purchased chests to acquire the potential 77 fest items someone might currently be missing.
Everyone's made good points about how the ~rarity~ or ~prestige~ is not what drives many (most?) to want the old fest items. It's also clear to anyone who spends 2 seconds looking around at lairs that utilitarian "functionality" is not what people value either- just try offering fodder price/a fodder swap for people's permas, because after all all dragons have the same functional value and that's the only thing that matters right? /s
But regardless, putting the 77 fest items left out with the others in JoxBoxes probably wouldn't even impact their values too much- we just have so many at this point that the pool is so diluted it wouldn't make a huge impact, and that's only going to be more true as time goes on. It's sort of like how purchasing 10 vs 100 vs 1000 tickets at Roundsey doesn't really make an impact even though you are multiplying your odds by 10 each time, because your odds are overwhelmingly low to begin with.
For a refresher, here's the math:
beautifulglitter wrote on 2023-02-22 07:46:12:
At the end of this fest cycle, there will be 242 fest items in the 95% pull chance pool (bears are in the bonus slot, the remaining 5% is for recolors). 77 fest items will remain arbitrarily hard-retired and only available through Roundsey.
This means that the odds of pulling any 1 old fest item would be:
Currently: 0.39%
If all items were added: 0.30%
This is what that means for the chances of pulling any 1 item you want:
For context, if you ever went more than 27 chests this NotN without pulling an egg, you had a less than 10% of doing so and would need at least that 90% category in this case should your luck remain the same.
(Note: Those prices are if you manage to acquire every single chest at the 80kT Joxar sells at (and a 1:1000 g:T ratio). This isn't realistic, those prices would be WAY higher in actuality.)
If all items were added you would have to open
over 21 years worth of chests just to have a 50% chance of getting your item,
and that's only if the pool
never expands again after this fest cycle.
At this point the pool is large enough that there will be no "flooding" of the market; at most, prices will likely just stabilize where they are now, especially as each cycle year currently adds 33 more items into the pool.
There's just no reason to not treat fest items equally when it would take literal
decades worth of purchased chests to acquire the potential 77 fest items someone might currently be missing.
[quote name="Contaminate" date="2023-03-06 08:44:24" ]
[quote name="Almedha" date="2023-03-06 06:27:14" ]
[quote name="Contaminate" date="2023-03-06 01:14:16" ]
People want the retired familiars for prestige and because they're rare, not because they're being locked out of anything by not having them.
[/quote]
Ah, here is is. I thought this kind of nonsense went extinct a while ago. I never wanted a Light Sprite. It was only because of this [i]toxic[/i] attitude that I wanted one at all, because if I had one, my motiviations for wanting them to be unretired would not matter - no one cares as long as you have one. As it sits, I don't want one; I just think they should be unretired, which of course meant I had to get one to "please" the people with bonkers opinions like this. Then I realized I shouldn't be conforming my desires to such acidic assumptions to make my opinion worthwhile, and only pursued the items I wanted. So, there is that, I suppose.
But I do want, for example, the forgetools. I don't think owning these comes with any level of prestige (though, if it does, please tell me - gotta get that sweet petsite clout), but it does have the functional advantage of Aesthetic - which one might argue is not only the point of the game but also applies to Light Sprites. I don't think there's a more nonsense thing to think, honestly.
Not to mention, such people, unless bestowed with some supernatural ability to know the thoughts of anyone but themselves, cannot know the motivation of those without. So, according to this, the Light Sprite offers only the advantage of being held in higher regard by perhaps such viewpoints as these. Which obviously shouldn't be considered.
[/quote]
Bruh people like you are the reason I don’t even entertain these suggestions anymore. You pretend it’s some personal affront that these non-functional cosmetics require significant effort to obtain even though there are multiple comparable replacements in both style and theme. This thread started with complaints about the price of a light sprite.
Maybe actually lay out what functional disadvantage you’re at by not having access to a tiny subset of familiars and apparel items? Most of which HAVE visually comparable alternatives
[/quote]
And yet here you are trying to argue with people.
There is no functional disadvantage. That's what people are trying to explain. If there's no functional disadvantage, that means there's no functional advantage either. So why does it matter if they come back into the market? At that point it's just splitting hairs over some pixels, right?
Contaminate wrote on 2023-03-06 08:44:24:
Almedha wrote on 2023-03-06 06:27:14:
Contaminate wrote on 2023-03-06 01:14:16:
People want the retired familiars for prestige and because they're rare, not because they're being locked out of anything by not having them.
Ah, here is is. I thought this kind of nonsense went extinct a while ago. I never wanted a Light Sprite. It was only because of this
toxic attitude that I wanted one at all, because if I had one, my motiviations for wanting them to be unretired would not matter - no one cares as long as you have one. As it sits, I don't want one; I just think they should be unretired, which of course meant I had to get one to "please" the people with bonkers opinions like this. Then I realized I shouldn't be conforming my desires to such acidic assumptions to make my opinion worthwhile, and only pursued the items I wanted. So, there is that, I suppose.
But I do want, for example, the forgetools. I don't think owning these comes with any level of prestige (though, if it does, please tell me - gotta get that sweet petsite clout), but it does have the functional advantage of Aesthetic - which one might argue is not only the point of the game but also applies to Light Sprites. I don't think there's a more nonsense thing to think, honestly.
Not to mention, such people, unless bestowed with some supernatural ability to know the thoughts of anyone but themselves, cannot know the motivation of those without. So, according to this, the Light Sprite offers only the advantage of being held in higher regard by perhaps such viewpoints as these. Which obviously shouldn't be considered.
Bruh people like you are the reason I don’t even entertain these suggestions anymore. You pretend it’s some personal affront that these non-functional cosmetics require significant effort to obtain even though there are multiple comparable replacements in both style and theme. This thread started with complaints about the price of a light sprite.
Maybe actually lay out what functional disadvantage you’re at by not having access to a tiny subset of familiars and apparel items? Most of which HAVE visually comparable alternatives
And yet here you are trying to argue with people.
There is no functional disadvantage. That's what people are trying to explain. If there's no functional disadvantage, that means there's no functional advantage either. So why does it matter if they come back into the market? At that point it's just splitting hairs over some pixels, right?
Loot box math. Ugh. I hate loot boxes. They could be added to Jox box. Or items be taken out and added to the holiday shop to add years 1 to 3. Honestly though. I would rather the holiday shop mechanic be taken full advantage and Jox box just removed.
Loot box math. Ugh. I hate loot boxes. They could be added to Jox box. Or items be taken out and added to the holiday shop to add years 1 to 3. Honestly though. I would rather the holiday shop mechanic be taken full advantage and Jox box just removed.
Support, I think low chance with Joxar makes the most sense to trickle them back in and have them slowly deflate over time. KS stuff can stay retired as it was emphasized that those items would be special, but as a first year player who received 0 indication that the
onsite festival items would Literally Be Gone Forever Outside A Frickin' Raffle, I wish I could time travel and tell myself to play for longer. I'm in this for "collection" reasons too--my sprites will be forever incomplete unless I amass an insane amount of site resources. FOMO sucks.
For those who already got theirs and want them to remain as hard to get for everyone else...may I introduce you to
crab mentality? It feels like FR"s equivalents of "haves" and "have nots," which is...not really a thing you'd want to cultivate in a community. At least, in my opinion. I feel like the divisive reactions in this thread certainly speak for themselves.
It would shake the community for sure, but it's a band-aid that needs to be ripped off. Any "trust" issues are the individual player's problem, and not something the staff can help. I would "trust" that, after many years of playing this game, you would generally feel as though the staff had the players' best interests in mind, but if making 11 little jpegs cost less than the equivalent of
2000 US Dollars ruins your "trust," I'm not sure what to say.
Support, I think low chance with Joxar makes the most sense to trickle them back in and have them slowly deflate over time. KS stuff can stay retired as it was emphasized that those items would be special, but as a first year player who received 0 indication that the
onsite festival items would Literally Be Gone Forever Outside A Frickin' Raffle, I wish I could time travel and tell myself to play for longer. I'm in this for "collection" reasons too--my sprites will be forever incomplete unless I amass an insane amount of site resources. FOMO sucks.
For those who already got theirs and want them to remain as hard to get for everyone else...may I introduce you to
crab mentality? It feels like FR"s equivalents of "haves" and "have nots," which is...not really a thing you'd want to cultivate in a community. At least, in my opinion. I feel like the divisive reactions in this thread certainly speak for themselves.
It would shake the community for sure, but it's a band-aid that needs to be ripped off. Any "trust" issues are the individual player's problem, and not something the staff can help. I would "trust" that, after many years of playing this game, you would generally feel as though the staff had the players' best interests in mind, but if making 11 little jpegs cost less than the equivalent of
2000 US Dollars ruins your "trust," I'm not sure what to say.
[quote name="Amut" date="2023-03-07 12:43:01" ]
Roundsey isn't a solution, but Jox box at least lets a potential trickle of items in every year, and only a trickle, when you get down to the math done earlier. So someone can only sell their light sprites for 180kg instead of 230kg, because there's all of four more around that month to drive down the price, wow, *tiny violin*.
[/quote]
*slow clap* I agree with everything Amut said here but especially this part.
And the thing is, 230kg is the price _right now_. It was 68kg when I bought mine in 2020. By 2025 the Light Sprite will be going for at least a million gems at this rate of inflation if there is no intervention like a chance to get y1 items from the Jox box. There is IMO no reason why the Light Sprite should cost that much. The massively inflated prices of the KS and Bool, while painful and permanently out of reach for me, make sense - the Boolean was given to beta testers, the Kickstarter items were for people who spent real-world money on the site when there was a non-zero chance the site would fail. The y1 stuff is just... kept out of reach for no really good reason considering other older festival stuff is in the box.
I'm not exactly sympathetic to people who think the Light Sprite should be 230kg and climbing and will cry if they have to sell it for only 180kg. There's no reason it should have even ever cost 60+kg, let alone this much.
Amut wrote on 2023-03-07 12:43:01:
Roundsey isn't a solution, but Jox box at least lets a potential trickle of items in every year, and only a trickle, when you get down to the math done earlier. So someone can only sell their light sprites for 180kg instead of 230kg, because there's all of four more around that month to drive down the price, wow, *tiny violin*.
*slow clap* I agree with everything Amut said here but especially this part.
And the thing is, 230kg is the price _right now_. It was 68kg when I bought mine in 2020. By 2025 the Light Sprite will be going for at least a million gems at this rate of inflation if there is no intervention like a chance to get y1 items from the Jox box. There is IMO no reason why the Light Sprite should cost that much. The massively inflated prices of the KS and Bool, while painful and permanently out of reach for me, make sense - the Boolean was given to beta testers, the Kickstarter items were for people who spent real-world money on the site when there was a non-zero chance the site would fail. The y1 stuff is just... kept out of reach for no really good reason considering other older festival stuff is in the box.
I'm not exactly sympathetic to people who think the Light Sprite should be 230kg and climbing and will cry if they have to sell it for only 180kg. There's no reason it should have even ever cost 60+kg, let alone this much.
pings off | plz no random friend requests/PMs/profile comments
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Jovian Thank you for that terminology. I completely forgot the name of it, but when you mentioned it my mind went to hermit crabs and shells. Hermit crabs will push each other around even though there's other good shells in the area due to their need for a safety shelter real quick.
This site is almost 10 years old. the need for having festival items years 1 to 3 "retired" is just silly. The site population will continue to grow and it becomes a situation of "well there's only like 1,000 and we have over 5,000 players that want to complete their bestiaries". It becomes super unfair to those that join later. Like. I feel bad for other players. At the time I couldn't really stock up the currency to buy more because of how the holiday currency was obtained. It was far harder to do festive stuff in the past than today. It really makes me sad seeing people save such unreasonable amounts of gems only to have to save more because the current point in time the price goes up. There's a big difference between 1,000 gems (about 10 dollars) to like 230,000 gems (we're in the 1,000s of dollars now). :c
@
Jovian Thank you for that terminology. I completely forgot the name of it, but when you mentioned it my mind went to hermit crabs and shells. Hermit crabs will push each other around even though there's other good shells in the area due to their need for a safety shelter real quick.
This site is almost 10 years old. the need for having festival items years 1 to 3 "retired" is just silly. The site population will continue to grow and it becomes a situation of "well there's only like 1,000 and we have over 5,000 players that want to complete their bestiaries". It becomes super unfair to those that join later. Like. I feel bad for other players. At the time I couldn't really stock up the currency to buy more because of how the holiday currency was obtained. It was far harder to do festive stuff in the past than today. It really makes me sad seeing people save such unreasonable amounts of gems only to have to save more because the current point in time the price goes up. There's a big difference between 1,000 gems (about 10 dollars) to like 230,000 gems (we're in the 1,000s of dollars now). :c
