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TOPIC | Alternative Methods for Eyes
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The method is nice and all but doesn't work all over the board no matter how you put it, and continuously insisting that is 'the way' to do it isn't very helpful for the discussion
The method is nice and all but doesn't work all over the board no matter how you put it, and continuously insisting that is 'the way' to do it isn't very helpful for the discussion
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Both of my special eye projects are imps so.... can I get an f in chat? Or even better can I get a way of accomplishing these projects that isn't needlessly convoluted? Just let me craft a vial. Make it something that only comes once a year and requires rare materials. Or make them like wildclaw scrolls or something. Expensive and limited.
Both of my special eye projects are imps so.... can I get an f in chat? Or even better can I get a way of accomplishing these projects that isn't needlessly convoluted? Just let me craft a vial. Make it something that only comes once a year and requires rare materials. Or make them like wildclaw scrolls or something. Expensive and limited.
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When the only method for getting eyes on dragons that existed before the eye update is "get over it" or "replace them with some random you have to likely take months to rebreed for, their ID number, progen-status, or gen 1-ness be damned", then something is clearly wrong with that system as a whole.

The color wheel isn't remotely the same. Everyone got ADVANCED WARNING before it was released, being clearly told HOW to preserve pre-existing breeding pairs, and how to plan for it. All dragons on the site can get the new colors - even progens - at any time, whenever, wherever, through the use of a scatter scroll, which is RNG sure, but it's infinity stocked and always available so the only thing prohibiting your use of it is your funds, which translate into time and effort.

Eye types are different in that the scatter vials are a limited resource, they WILL be gone soon, even if the cost wasn't already prohibitive and the RNG terrible - meaning that once they are used up from the site or out of most people's conceivable cost range, there's NO WAY AT ALL to change eye types on ANY existing dragon, old OR new.

Gambling with RNG isn't terrible, but when there's bad odds and no way to try again easily, it's NOT fun, and irreplaceable dragons simply are left in the dust. FIVE years of dragons being bred, loved, given importance, etc, were left in the dirt WITHOUT ANY WARNING, for a 3 day limited event, with retiring vials with terrible RNG. That's simply unacceptable.

@pfvupl, I know you likely don't mean to come off as uncaring, but frankly, you joined AFTER the 'eyepocalypse', so you literally have NO WAY of understanding anyone else's issues here. You just don't. I appreciate you trying to add on to the conversation but honestly what you are suggesting to us all is callous and just uninformed. We can't just "rebreed". That's NOT an option. For breeding projects going forward, sure, but it's also NOT FUN for most of us to just get continually disappointed in what eyes hatch for us.

None of us were warning ahead of time that our dragons would be irreversibly changed (eye types release ALSO redid EVERY SINGLE COMMON EYE to something that ended up way different - see here) and the fact that we couldn't easily 'fix' this change was a HUGE oversight on part of the staff. They know they messed up, they dug in their heels and double-downed on retiring the vials, calling them a mistake, and then never said anything else on the topic ever again. Which needs to change because clearly this issue isn't just going to be forgotten.
When the only method for getting eyes on dragons that existed before the eye update is "get over it" or "replace them with some random you have to likely take months to rebreed for, their ID number, progen-status, or gen 1-ness be damned", then something is clearly wrong with that system as a whole.

The color wheel isn't remotely the same. Everyone got ADVANCED WARNING before it was released, being clearly told HOW to preserve pre-existing breeding pairs, and how to plan for it. All dragons on the site can get the new colors - even progens - at any time, whenever, wherever, through the use of a scatter scroll, which is RNG sure, but it's infinity stocked and always available so the only thing prohibiting your use of it is your funds, which translate into time and effort.

Eye types are different in that the scatter vials are a limited resource, they WILL be gone soon, even if the cost wasn't already prohibitive and the RNG terrible - meaning that once they are used up from the site or out of most people's conceivable cost range, there's NO WAY AT ALL to change eye types on ANY existing dragon, old OR new.

Gambling with RNG isn't terrible, but when there's bad odds and no way to try again easily, it's NOT fun, and irreplaceable dragons simply are left in the dust. FIVE years of dragons being bred, loved, given importance, etc, were left in the dirt WITHOUT ANY WARNING, for a 3 day limited event, with retiring vials with terrible RNG. That's simply unacceptable.

@pfvupl, I know you likely don't mean to come off as uncaring, but frankly, you joined AFTER the 'eyepocalypse', so you literally have NO WAY of understanding anyone else's issues here. You just don't. I appreciate you trying to add on to the conversation but honestly what you are suggesting to us all is callous and just uninformed. We can't just "rebreed". That's NOT an option. For breeding projects going forward, sure, but it's also NOT FUN for most of us to just get continually disappointed in what eyes hatch for us.

None of us were warning ahead of time that our dragons would be irreversibly changed (eye types release ALSO redid EVERY SINGLE COMMON EYE to something that ended up way different - see here) and the fact that we couldn't easily 'fix' this change was a HUGE oversight on part of the staff. They know they messed up, they dug in their heels and double-downed on retiring the vials, calling them a mistake, and then never said anything else on the topic ever again. Which needs to change because clearly this issue isn't just going to be forgotten.
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Uh oh, better not mention the common eye changes or this thread might get locked ;)

But yeah I was here for the colour wheel update, and it wasn't remotely the same. If I wanted new colours on an old dragon, I could use scatterscrolls. They are functionally the same as scattervials, except for one crucial difference: they didn't retire. I can gamble for as long as I want. If the colour wheel update came with a limited scatterscroll that returned 3 days after it was released, rendering it impossible to get new colours on oldies, you bet there would have been outrage!

I can get new colours on my progen any time I want by spending some money, but to get special eyes on her... yeah good luck with that, especially as further into the future the pool of existing scattervials gets smaller and smaller.
Uh oh, better not mention the common eye changes or this thread might get locked ;)

But yeah I was here for the colour wheel update, and it wasn't remotely the same. If I wanted new colours on an old dragon, I could use scatterscrolls. They are functionally the same as scattervials, except for one crucial difference: they didn't retire. I can gamble for as long as I want. If the colour wheel update came with a limited scatterscroll that returned 3 days after it was released, rendering it impossible to get new colours on oldies, you bet there would have been outrage!

I can get new colours on my progen any time I want by spending some money, but to get special eyes on her... yeah good luck with that, especially as further into the future the pool of existing scattervials gets smaller and smaller.
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[quote name="Cadash" date="2020-01-06 08:07:26" ] The color wheel isn't remotely the same. Everyone got ADVANCED WARNING before it was released, being clearly told HOW to preserve pre-existing breeding pairs, and how to plan for it. All dragons on the site can get the new colors - even progens - at any time, whenever, wherever, through the use of a scatter scroll, which is RNG sure, but it's infinity stocked and always available so the only thing prohibiting your use of it is your funds, which translate into time and effort. [/quote] This right here. The Color wheel update was so well accepted (yeah there were and are some who were/are upset about expanded breeding ranges and changed colors) because we knew about it in advance, AND old dragons weren't locked from obtaining those colors. I took Elua, a dragon I was gifted when I joined the site, and scattered her, and got three all new colors after the color wheel expansion. I could take my progen, naturally created when I joined the site, and scatter him and get anywhere from 0-3 new colors. Same for any dragon in my lair, pre color wheel expansion or post. If I get a dragon 10 years from now that, for whatever reason, I want to scatter, I still have the chance to get old and new colors on it. This is the main reason people disliked the eye update. No advance notice, and other than a finite scattervial, no way to put it on existing dragons, nor ways to get in on future dragons should we wish. We talk about the almost 5 million dragons locked out when the eye update was rolled out, but that number is ever increasing, not just from future natural eyes, but every dragon that is born without the eye type that a user wants on it, is locked from getting those eye types. If I buy that multigaze fodder because I want the color scheme (and it doesn't exist elsewhere), my choices are a couple of unnatural types and common. I can't give it faceted, if I feel that it fits the dragon's colors better, I can't give it unusual eyes. This also means that if I DO get a pretty primal/multigaze/faceted/whatever rare eye variants there are in the future, and a good unnatural eye type comes out, I will have the dilemma of do I want to put the new pretty eye type on this dragon, and potentially regret it a few weeks down the road, or do I just skip it and forget that this dragon looks pretty with the new variant. If I decide to go for it, and change my mind later (which happens often, which is why I tend to not be in a hurry to gene/breed change anything), I am out of luck, I cannot put the original eye type back on the dragon in question. to me, that isn't a good mechanic to have, because it makes things, as said before, too precious to use, or in this case, change. It doesn't make the site fun, at least to me. It makes it so that every decision I make, at least regarding eye types, has to be carefully thought out, so I don't make a mistake, and accidentally use the last scroll on the wrong dragon, or find a different dragon I want that scroll on more, but I already used my last one, or just have a better eye type come out in the future that I want more. This means that all clanbound scrolls I get will probably just sit in my vault because I will be too afraid to use them, in case there is another eye type down the road that I want more.
Cadash wrote on 2020-01-06 08:07:26:
The color wheel isn't remotely the same. Everyone got ADVANCED WARNING before it was released, being clearly told HOW to preserve pre-existing breeding pairs, and how to plan for it. All dragons on the site can get the new colors - even progens - at any time, whenever, wherever, through the use of a scatter scroll, which is RNG sure, but it's infinity stocked and always available so the only thing prohibiting your use of it is your funds, which translate into time and effort.
This right here.

The Color wheel update was so well accepted (yeah there were and are some who were/are upset about expanded breeding ranges and changed colors) because we knew about it in advance, AND old dragons weren't locked from obtaining those colors.

I took Elua, a dragon I was gifted when I joined the site, and scattered her, and got three all new colors after the color wheel expansion. I could take my progen, naturally created when I joined the site, and scatter him and get anywhere from 0-3 new colors. Same for any dragon in my lair, pre color wheel expansion or post. If I get a dragon 10 years from now that, for whatever reason, I want to scatter, I still have the chance to get old and new colors on it.

This is the main reason people disliked the eye update. No advance notice, and other than a finite scattervial, no way to put it on existing dragons, nor ways to get in on future dragons should we wish.

We talk about the almost 5 million dragons locked out when the eye update was rolled out, but that number is ever increasing, not just from future natural eyes, but every dragon that is born without the eye type that a user wants on it, is locked from getting those eye types. If I buy that multigaze fodder because I want the color scheme (and it doesn't exist elsewhere), my choices are a couple of unnatural types and common. I can't give it faceted, if I feel that it fits the dragon's colors better, I can't give it unusual eyes.

This also means that if I DO get a pretty primal/multigaze/faceted/whatever rare eye variants there are in the future, and a good unnatural eye type comes out, I will have the dilemma of do I want to put the new pretty eye type on this dragon, and potentially regret it a few weeks down the road, or do I just skip it and forget that this dragon looks pretty with the new variant.

If I decide to go for it, and change my mind later (which happens often, which is why I tend to not be in a hurry to gene/breed change anything), I am out of luck, I cannot put the original eye type back on the dragon in question.

to me, that isn't a good mechanic to have, because it makes things, as said before, too precious to use, or in this case, change. It doesn't make the site fun, at least to me. It makes it so that every decision I make, at least regarding eye types, has to be carefully thought out, so I don't make a mistake, and accidentally use the last scroll on the wrong dragon, or find a different dragon I want that scroll on more, but I already used my last one, or just have a better eye type come out in the future that I want more.

This means that all clanbound scrolls I get will probably just sit in my vault because I will be too afraid to use them, in case there is another eye type down the road that I want more.

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@pfvupl

I’ve been on the site since 2014, playing every day and hatching a nest ever day since I got here. Expanded nests were one of the first things I purchased on the site and I started to gather enough breeding pairs to keep my lair drowning in baby dragons to sell and later exalt when they grew up. The color wheel change was fun! We were given enough info in advance that I could even get pairs that had a chance at the new colors and put them on a nest to hatch day of.

Eye types? NOT FUN. I have hatched a nest every. single. day since the eye update came out. I have one hatched ONE SINGLE PRIMAL in all that time. I’m lucky in that I like ice primal and it matches with most of my pairs if it were to finally happen, but I honestly can’t imagine trying to do a project to get a primal. Or even multi gaze or faceted. I’ve got a document that I update whenever I hatch a special eyed baby (and then I usually keep them and get them a partner)

Again, I have hatched a nest EVERY DAY since the eyes came out. My numbers are this:

Faceted: 3
Multigaze: 1
Goat: 1
Primal: 0

Percentage chances are just that, chances. It’s definitely not a guarantee that you’ll get a primal every 100 dragons or so. I honestly cannot imagine how frustrating a project would be if I decided to do one, if I had been actually trying for a primal, even if I did something similar to the person who bred Rock Lee and gathered 15 common dragon pairs to nest every single day and then gene up later on em I got it, I would probably have quit the site.

From where I’m sitting, the ONLY option is to frankly ignore the eye types exist. Sure, I’ll get excited if I hatch one. But honestly there are days when even ignoring them is frustrating. It’s sometimes frustrating going weeks on end without seeing even a single eye type icon show up on a nest. I WON ROUNDSEY before I hatched a primal, and I don’t even play every week.
@pfvupl

I’ve been on the site since 2014, playing every day and hatching a nest ever day since I got here. Expanded nests were one of the first things I purchased on the site and I started to gather enough breeding pairs to keep my lair drowning in baby dragons to sell and later exalt when they grew up. The color wheel change was fun! We were given enough info in advance that I could even get pairs that had a chance at the new colors and put them on a nest to hatch day of.

Eye types? NOT FUN. I have hatched a nest every. single. day since the eye update came out. I have one hatched ONE SINGLE PRIMAL in all that time. I’m lucky in that I like ice primal and it matches with most of my pairs if it were to finally happen, but I honestly can’t imagine trying to do a project to get a primal. Or even multi gaze or faceted. I’ve got a document that I update whenever I hatch a special eyed baby (and then I usually keep them and get them a partner)

Again, I have hatched a nest EVERY DAY since the eyes came out. My numbers are this:

Faceted: 3
Multigaze: 1
Goat: 1
Primal: 0

Percentage chances are just that, chances. It’s definitely not a guarantee that you’ll get a primal every 100 dragons or so. I honestly cannot imagine how frustrating a project would be if I decided to do one, if I had been actually trying for a primal, even if I did something similar to the person who bred Rock Lee and gathered 15 common dragon pairs to nest every single day and then gene up later on em I got it, I would probably have quit the site.

From where I’m sitting, the ONLY option is to frankly ignore the eye types exist. Sure, I’ll get excited if I hatch one. But honestly there are days when even ignoring them is frustrating. It’s sometimes frustrating going weeks on end without seeing even a single eye type icon show up on a nest. I WON ROUNDSEY before I hatched a primal, and I don’t even play every week.
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@handdrawnviolist I'm in the same boat as you! I'm also a frequent breeder, I used to run a hatchery and while I don't any more I still breed my pairs. Plus I have some projects, and there's always a need for fodder, especially around dom pushes. My nesting grounds are almost always full.

I think my numbers look something like 2 primals, 2 goats, 1 facet, and 1 multi since I returned to the site in August 2018. Now imagine trying to concentrate those crap odds onto one project.
@handdrawnviolist I'm in the same boat as you! I'm also a frequent breeder, I used to run a hatchery and while I don't any more I still breed my pairs. Plus I have some projects, and there's always a need for fodder, especially around dom pushes. My nesting grounds are almost always full.

I think my numbers look something like 2 primals, 2 goats, 1 facet, and 1 multi since I returned to the site in August 2018. Now imagine trying to concentrate those crap odds onto one project.
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I've been trying to get Faceted eyes from a pair since June of last year. Both parents are plentiful.

June. Just faceted eyes on a boy, that's it. The character he's based on had no pupils and I wanted to show that. I'm beginning to think that slapping "glowing" on the damn thing will be a better alternative, even if it kinda ruins the aesthetic of the character.
I've been trying to get Faceted eyes from a pair since June of last year. Both parents are plentiful.

June. Just faceted eyes on a boy, that's it. The character he's based on had no pupils and I wanted to show that. I'm beginning to think that slapping "glowing" on the damn thing will be a better alternative, even if it kinda ruins the aesthetic of the character.

aren’t there eye scrolls now?
aren’t there eye scrolls now?
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[quote name="@Lapizooka" date="2020-01-07 18:34:19" ] aren’t there eye scrolls now? [/quote] Not for any of the ones that they first came out with that were in the scatter vials. There are no scrolls/vials for Uncommon, Unusual, Rare, Multi-gaze, Faceted, or Primal. If you were online during the one week they offered it and clicked to get the gift, you may have gotten 2 [b]clanbound [/b] vials for Goat. But those are now completely locked behind breeding or unsanctioned dragon trades if you didn't or used yours up, because they're not even in the scattervials.
@Lapizooka wrote on 2020-01-07 18:34:19:
aren’t there eye scrolls now?


Not for any of the ones that they first came out with that were in the scatter vials.
There are no scrolls/vials for Uncommon, Unusual, Rare, Multi-gaze, Faceted, or Primal.
If you were online during the one week they offered it and clicked to get the gift, you may have gotten 2 clanbound vials for Goat. But those are now completely locked behind breeding or unsanctioned dragon trades if you didn't or used yours up, because they're not even in the scattervials.
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