Suggestions

@MidnightWatcher I don't think being able to buy Vials for all the eye-types degrades their value in the random breeding. I'd consider them to be about on the same level of excitement or surprise when you breed a Gem Gened Dragon with a Treasure Gened Dragon and the offspring comes out with the much less percentage'd Gem Gene. Being able to buy an Iri/Fac dragon for cheap doesn't take away the value of the 2,700g you'd need to gene a perma-dragon the same. The value comes from the dragon in question being perfect, not necessarily from the value of the Vial or Scroll. [quote]On some level, I kind of like the idea of some things only being obtainable on newer dragons, since it encourages people to go buy new dragons rather then cling to their older ones.[/quote] With limited lair space and people being here for 4-5 years, it's unreasonable to consider that players have to be willing to part with dragons they've had for so long. I still have dragons that I purchased on the very first day I joined Flight Rising -- between them and a newer dragon, even with a neat eye-type, my older dragons are gunna win. Some dragons are not replaceable, especially Gen1s or low digits. I get where you're coming from but unfortunately because of the way the game is played by so many people, it's not exactly reasonable for staff to have the idea of "well just get new dragons".

All eyes should have vials, or been in a scatter sight type vials. For real.

This time staff have actually excluded preexisting dragons from an update which is just unfair. Not even a bad rng consumable items to aliviate the issue.

support,

my first instant thought when i saw the banner was how long i would need to grind to get that goat eye on my 6 digit coli boy, and boy have i never felt more quashed. goat eyes are some of my favorite to slap on characters and now those characters dragons will never match. its. disheartening.

Support. The more eye types that get added with little though on how it'd impact play and players in general, the more I honestly just... want to leave the site. The way the eye types have been handled in general, especially how staff keeps seemingly ignoring player input, is really disheartening.

[quote name="MidnightWatcher" date="2019-03-22 09:00:35" ] I think it was clear that staff wants there to be some things that are unique to an individual dragon, without being bought. They were going to eventually add in more natural eyes, and they can't exactly make the now retired scattersight item give you a chance to get these new eyes. I feel that its not meant to be an additional challenge, just a 'you get what you get, and you work with what you have'. Its a shame that older dragons cannot get Goat Eyes, but there are plenty of other potential options those older dragons can get. I guess what i'm saying is, I would love to be able to add a lot of these eye types to older dragons, but I can see the value of random factors. It would be nice that for every natural eye that can't be added to a dragon, there was something similar to it that could be added. [/quote] [quote name="ColonelChicken" date="2019-03-22 07:42:46" ] "people are already unhappy", speak for yourself, I'd rather have many new "natural" eyes. Vials are nice and all, but getting them via breeding is funnier, and actually makes me want to breed dragons. I'm not against eyes having vials (Swirls having a coli only vial is a great idea), but I love having some "hatch-only" stuff, and those eyes are one of the few stuff you can get this way. So no support. [/quote] Basically both of these I really don't support adding vials for any of the natural eye types Am I sad I can't add the goat eyes to some of my existing dragons? Yes (goat pupils are between my faves) Am I going to make a fuss over it? No, because it's not worth it Not everything can be bought, and it's right for it to stay that way You can already customize 90% of your dragon anyway Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say you should replace older dragons, just... if they were already perfect, and have sentimental value, they are still going to, even without a new fancy eye-type

[quote name="Midorikage" date="2019-03-22 11:48:16" ] Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say you should replace older dragons, just... if they were already perfect, and have sentimental value, they are still going to, even without a new fancy eye-type [/quote] You can't really say that because, as some people have expressed, they've been drawing and writing their dragons with Goat eyes (and other eye-types) without the eye-types actually being a thing. "Perfect" may not have existed until a specific item or gene or eye came out. The sentimental value is still intact but the perfection is suddenly available, but impossible to attain. That's arguable worse than it just not being an option.

Full support.

It just doesn't make any sense to create and advertise a game with full customization if there are features that are outright impossible to obtain. I understand the value of hard work, and it's exactly because of that and the fact that I've been here and loved this place for the past 4 years that I believe older players should be heard and taken in consideration when new features are applied.

There are 50+ million dragons in the game already with thousands if not also millions falling in the categories of G1s, low IDs, special IDs, birthday dragons, sentimental value, etc etc and they just have absolutely no way to benefit from the goat eyes, being such a popular thing. What's the point of all the hard work we put on a lair full of cuztomizable dragons if they can't benefit from newer updates? Are we supposed to exalt our dragons and start again every time old dragons are excluded from updates? Some dragons are not replaceable.

[quote name="@McAlli" date="2019-03-22 11:21:44" ] Being able to buy an Iri/Fac dragon for cheap doesn't take away the value of the 2,700g you'd need to gene a perma-dragon the same. The value comes from the dragon in question being perfect, not necessarily from the value of the Vial or Scroll. [/quote] That's a perfect way to put it, thank you. I don't really see not being able to breedchange to Imperial, or change gender or element, as a fair comparison to eye types, since those things predate pretty much all of our dragons. We knew what the options were when those dragons hatched, and if we'd have liked them better as a different gender or element, or wished they'd been an Imp, we could have chosen not to keep them in the first place. If a new breed/pose/gene/whatnot were implemented and there were no way for older dragons to be included in that, there'd be just as much upset - in fact, the way things are going with the eye types makes me concerned other dragon attributes will be handled that way in the future. (And I say all this as someone who's not super-into Goat eyes specifically.)

Support. I've got two primal breeding projects in the works (plus several others planned) and one already completed that took 6 months of breeding to get the parents and then got really really insanely lucky and finished fast. I'm NOT afraid of hard work and I don't need or want things handed to me.

But this is still awful, the 50 million dragons that existed before this eye type are not all GARBAGE to be thrown away. And that's exactly what staff are saying. That all existing dragons are worthless and should be thrown away and replaced if you want the shiny new eye-type on them.

If we are supposed to care enough about our dragons to spend time, effort, and even actual money on this site, staff needs to stop acting like all that time, money, and effort are worthless and discard-able anytime they come out with a new thing but deliberately make it unavailable to any dragon that already existed.

I could go either way. On the one hand, I actually like the random nature of eyes. It pretty much single-handedly restored my interest in the game. Since they came out I've been constantly starting breeding projects, and I love the challenge of scrying for combos that look great with every possible eye. Hatching something special is exciting, and it has the possibility to add value to what otherwise would just be another run of the mill dragon.

And I honestly feel that's what staff intended from the start. Old dragons already inherently have value. Gen1s inherently have value. New dragons are pretty worthless. New eyes being exclusive to new dragons give them the potential to hold some value. Plus, because they're so hard to see on most adults, they're not nearly as intrusive as other potential random effects might be. And they give value to permababies, which is good for the site as it's a gem item. Basically, eye types are to give new dragons value, not to customize old ones. And I feel that's why scattersights retired. They were never intended to be used the way players did-- staff wanted to just give players a one time shot to roll the dice, not a way to always actively customize eyes. Staff pretty much confirmed this here.
So in that line of thinking, I've always been fine with the randomness. I see a lot of positives to the system of only having new dragons get new eyes. And honestly, I wish they'd never had the scattersights, since then at least there wouldn't be this odd precedent. It was a nice gesture, but poorly executed unfortunately.

On the other hand, I do think staff should have anticipated how players would want to use eyes and how the randomness would be received. Yes, there are players like me that like it. But there are just as many who find it frustrating and disappointing to not be able to apply the eyes to old dragons. And that's a totally reasonable reaction. You have that perfect dragon, and man they would be even better if they could just have this one eye type. But you can't get it. That's disheartening. What renewed my interest in the game may just as easily kill it for someone else.

Honestly, I don't really have a fix. I think there's something to be said for eyes that are unique to new dragons, and I do like it. But I do understand the dislike, and I feel there has to be some sort of compromise. Maybe similar but not exact versions that can be bought as vials? Or there was a suggestion ages ago about a transfer mechanism to move 'excess magic' from one dragon to another, thereby swapping their eye types. I don't know. I think I'm rambling at this point anyway. Basically I don't think either side is in the wrong, and I think staff should be looking for something that would allow players a little more customization on their old dragons while still keeping the benefits of random new eyes.