Suggestions

[quote name="gemajgall" date="2019-01-08 07:01:03" ] So if the staff's aim was that unique eyes be a "special" hatch that makes us feel all good inside and gets us extra money through selling...well, they don't any more. So IMHO, it's time to rethink the mechanic and give us individual vials, cycling scattervials and legacy eyes. [/quote] Agreed. Considering how many primals/multi-gaze I've seen pop up fodder priced or below (and I'm not a high volume fodder sniper/trainer so I doubt I've seen anything but a tiny [i]tiny[/i] fraction of them) there's a LOT of them that aren't selling as anything but exalts. Acknowledging that their intentions aren't matching up with reality and making changes to accommodate that reality isn't a failure to be true to their vision, it's having the integrity and sense to recognize not all ideas work once they are outside the sanctity of your mind and shoving ahead with something that isn't working as intended and is actively making a significant portion of their user base unhappy isn't beneficial to the site. And I'm saying that as someone who's sitting on close to 18,000G worth of vials at their current value. I'd much rather have a reliable and accessible source of eye customization FOR EVERYBODY, than protect any possible profits from them for myself at the expense of everyone else. Heck I'd rather have vials available for everyone and the ability to USE the ones I've got without feeling like it's a total waste of a diminishing resource.

Support; rather frustrating to both come back from a hiatus all excited about the cool new eyes and lore, only to find out that it doesn't pan out quite as excitingly as I'd hoped.

And, as always, I enjoy anything that encourages Coli use to grind for things you actually want.

I'd like to add my support and also commend @deadbattery for such a well put together front post

Going to jump in and support here, for reasons stated over and again. I am still very upset about the gems purchased for something that changed without consent or any kind of warning or input or opt out. Am doubly upset with the current update. The eye jokes are not cute, amd FR's silence and downright arrogance in the responses that were given is a solid mistake.

[quote name="@echolaliate" date="2019-01-08 19:33:36" ] I'd like to add my support and also commend @/deadbattery for such a well put together front post [/quote] Psst, deadbattery is now @/TehuMertt due to some... unfortunate happenings. [rule] I cannot recall if I've posted or not and am too lazy to search right now so let me say (or repeat) that I do very much support this suggestion! It's by far the one I prefer most of all the ones on offer here in the suggestions forum. I don't care much for eye types almost entirely due to their forced RNG rarity. I was excited about them at first I suppose - like most of us I imagine - but after the "new thing!" excitement wore off I was just left sorta upset - again like most others due to how it was handled and the unfortunate options I was left with in terms of my dragons. I don't do much with her anymore by my custom progen would almost certainly have primal. There's no way to get it on her though besides a scatterquest. Which I have no real plans of doing based on the fact I had a whopping 5 vials in my hoard after trying (and failing) to get the rest of my vials trying for Multi on another of my dragons. And now after trying (and succeeding) in getting rare on my new permababy I've got a whopping 3. So a scatter venture for primal... I can't say I'm all that interested anymore. Not to mention it's my Progen. As others have said time and time again... they're just stuck. I could spend thousands of gems (and at this point IRL $ since I'm broke atm) to try... but I'd rather like... not. Not only because it's such a minute change (even shadow primal is to me at this point, yeah) but because it just doesn't seem worth the cost. Not worth the cost REGARDLESS of the actual value other players are selling for, mind you. Just the pure chance alone doesn't seem WORTH going for. With how bad the % is on getting primal or any of the other three is... it just isn't worth the time, effort, cost, anything... just so my dragon can have a case of drippy face.

AHHH so I come back to a sudden wave of support and all the nice stuff, thank you all so much for supporting this cause!
A big thank you to @/alphasobek for pointing out my misfortune (oops) and adding a lovely and well-constructed addition to the post.

@echolaliate ASDKGJH thank you so much, I love making my posts thorough and try to make them clear as possible. Bless ♥

Also, another big thank you to @/ridara @/ningyo and @/gemajgall for their continuous support, great additions, well-constructed criticism and many excellently written analyses.

[quote name="PersimmonBird" date="2019-01-08 18:00:25" ] [quote name="gemajgall" date="2019-01-08 07:01:03" ] So if the staff's aim was that unique eyes be a "special" hatch that makes us feel all good inside and gets us extra money through selling...well, they don't any more. So IMHO, it's time to rethink the mechanic and give us individual vials, cycling scattervials and legacy eyes. [/quote] Agreed. Considering how many primals/multi-gaze I've seen pop up fodder priced or below (and I'm not a high volume fodder sniper/trainer so I doubt I've seen anything but a tiny [i]tiny[/i] fraction of them) there's a LOT of them that aren't selling as anything but exalts. Acknowledging that their intentions aren't matching up with reality and making changes to accommodate that reality isn't a failure to be true to their vision, it's having the integrity and sense to recognize not all ideas work once they are outside the sanctity of your mind and shoving ahead with something that isn't working as intended and is actively making a significant portion of their user base unhappy isn't beneficial to the site. And I'm saying that as someone who's sitting on close to 18,000G worth of vials at their current value. I'd much rather have a reliable and accessible source of eye customization FOR EVERYBODY, than protect any possible profits from them for myself at the expense of everyone else. Heck I'd rather have vials available for everyone and the ability to USE the ones I've got without feeling like it's a total waste of a diminishing resource. [/quote] All of this^^^^^ I am sitting on 12,985 gems worth of scattersight vials and I have NO intentions of selling any of them ever. I am so terrified of using them on my G1s because I know how bad the rates on them are and I know I can never get them back once they are gone. My partner and I both ground in the coli as hard as we could to collect as many vials as possible during the weekend they were out. We each ended up with around 60 vials. I have 49 left after using some to get specific Unusual/Rare eyes on some of my G1s to match their colors better (which was a great option to have) My partner wanted Multi Gaze on some of his G1s and had to blow through all of his and buy more from the AH in order to get Multi Gaze on TWO dragons. :/ If I can decide all the genes my dragon has, which actually pass on to offspring, why cant I get to decide their eyes if I don't like the ones they are born with? I know staff said they will be offering other eye types in the future (like they did with Dark Sclera) to give us more non random options but it just feels like we are being thrown a small little scrap as a token appeasement. The suggestions of this thread could fix the problems instead of just giving you other options you may not like. (ex. I have never found a dragon I actually wanted Dark Sclera on) And lets talk about breeding probability here. All the guides for breeding eye type probability rate Multigaze, Faceted, and Primal at around 1.25%-1%. If you are breeding 2 identical dragons of the correct color and breed you want a faceted/multigaze/primal to be, if you care about the gender of the dragon you get that will ALWAYS cut your chances in half. If you want a specific gender of dragon with Multigaze/Faceted/Primal your chances will ALWAYS be around 0.5% to get the dragon you want. Decide to go with two different breed parents in hopes of a 5 egg nest? Well congrats, your chances are roughly 1 egg nest: 0.5% 2 egg nest: 1% 3 egg nest: 1.5% 4 egg nest: 2% 5 egg nest: 2.5% Good friggin luck buddies.

Not a huge supporter of this. The eyes were more advertised as a mutation, not a gene, and the scattersight vials was so you could get a mutation, not control what you get like you would with a gene. It was made to make breeding more interesting instead of making it more like a chore. In a ways, it makes the breeding a little more realistic, as you don't always get what you want with real life breeding (believe me, I know).

I feel that releasing individual vials for individual types will kill it's rarity and will eliminate the whole mutation aspect of it. Not only that, they aren't associated with flights, so I have a hard time understanding how they would work in an event. Obviously the community would want an event longer than three days, as that was a gripe with the original vials, but then you'd run the risk of a month being nothing but events, and that's rather tiresome. Only way I could even see it working is if random vials dropped in NOTN chests, which would somewhat preserve their rarity.

[quote]It was made to make breeding more interesting instead of making it more like a chore.[/quote] "Interesting" is very subjective. That's the problem. Some people love games that are more gambling and RNG. Other people hate gambling mechanics and RNG. From how FR was first introduced, it was more towards the latter, so it got an audience who likes the latter. Yes, there's some players who like gambles. However, had FR wanted to be a mutation/random/RNG/uncontrolled breeding sim from the getgo, it should have been one from the getgo. Then it could have attracted its true audience. The fact is that individual eye vials wouldn't take away from random breeding. If people want to try the RNG for eye hatches, they can still do that. And for people who want to give their old dragons new eyes, they would have that option too. Win/Win. [quote] it makes the breeding a little more realistic, as you don't always get what you want with real life breeding[/quote] We can breed faes with imperials. This never was realistic. We don't do recessive genes or alleles or anything else. The eye update goes in the face of what FR was founded on. Things don't need to be realistic. We always have been able to get what we want. That's the selling point of FR. If we want specific colors, we know what we need to get those. We know gene rarity. We knew what we had to work for to achieve a goal. This update has massively moved the posts. That's not fun. Being virtually unable to breed for your dream dragon is against the heart of FR. Plus, as I said above, if people do want variety, they can. Breed big color ranges and gem to treasure genes. People can have random if they choose. But this has forced random on people who never wanted it. [quote]I feel that releasing individual vials for individual types will kill it's rarity and will eliminate the whole mutation aspect of it[/quote] The rarity is already dead. I just sold one multi and two facets for fodder because there is no rarity. It's not "special" any more to hatch a Big Three eyes. Now, you need to hatch those eyes on pretty dragons, which is again subjective. And that brings us right back to where FR was before the update. Only desirable dragons are special. Eyes don't change that. They just roadblock people with old dragons, progens, and Gen 1s and those trying to breed for their dream dragons. [quote]they aren't associated with flights, so I have a hard time understanding how they would work in an event. [/quote] This is a long thread, so it's understandable if not every post was read. In it, many ways to release individual vials were discussed: NotN, each festival, MP, GMP...And really, the first post outlines one possible method. I don't think that post was thoroughly read: Primal Sight - Coli during festivals Multi - Baldwin Facet - Swipp If the confusion is how the first one on that list would work...it'd be a Coli drop. Like chests and much rarer than currency, during the festivals. [quote]which would somewhat preserve their rarity.[/quote] What rarity are we trying to preserve here? The eyes or the scattervials? Because breeding for eyes has already been shot. And the Vials? You know this isn't about the scattervials but a new item, right? But anyway, why keep an important item as a diminishing resource? I do not agree with people playing for one weekend and then milking others later on. And I speak as one who could profit greatly from forever retired scattervials. Also, one thing that seems to be overlooked. [i]Existing dragons were all but excluded from this update.[/i] The scattervials are too rare and too unbalanced to effectively cover all the need to apply new eyes to old dragons. This includes special lineages, unique IDs, special birthdates, progens, personal favorites, sentimental dragons, and any existing dragon a player may not want to part with. That's five years worth of players and lairs cut off from this feature. "Preserving the rarity" so new babies are "special" does nothing to solve this problem at all. And we're not going to stop pushing a remedy for this issue until we can get new eyes on old dragons whether that be cycling scattervials, individual eye vials, and/or legacy eyes.

[quote=@LittlePuppy]The eyes were more advertised as a mutation, not a gene, and the scattersight vials was so you could get a mutation, not control what you get like you would with a gene.[/quote] First of all, mutations are heritable. Mutations are, in fact, genes. Changed genes, perhaps, but genes nevertheless. I don't understand what you're getting at here, especially since the eyes would still not be heritable. They would just be able to be applied, not bred for. [quote]It was made to make breeding more interesting instead of making it more like a chore.[/quote] I completely disagree. This update made breeding more like a chore. Having to breed into eternity for an abysmally low chance at getting the [i]aesthetic[/i] that I want is a chore. It's not like the eyes are at all important for anything (we've established we can't breed for these "mutations" so there's no real benefit to having or not having them). They're only for looks. Before this, we could control everything about our dragons looks. [quote]In a ways, it makes the breeding a little more realistic, as you don't always get what you want with real life breeding (believe me, I know).[/quote] I'm sure if FR had actually wanted to be frustrating like real-life breeding, they might have included something more akin to real-life breeding, like recessive genes or something. There are other games for this, and FR has always been advertised to not be like this. [quote]I feel that releasing individual vials for individual types will kill it's rarity and will eliminate the whole mutation aspect of it.[/quote] No eye types are all that rare. I got [url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=42965534]this gorgeous primal eye dragon[/url] in July (approximately one month after the update) for 20kt. Besides, being able to apply the eye types after breeding might just make actually breeding for the dragon more special. After all, I know I freak out when I get a Skydancer from my Skydancer/Mirror pair. Because it's rare. The kids are still worth about the same (like a primal eye dragon is worth about the same as any other eye dragon), but it's still exciting. As for the rest of it, I believe the original post offers different ideas to release the different types of vials. So. I don't think we'd have the problem of tiresome events.