Support! I love the idea of having vials instead of random chance!
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Make Flight Rising better by sharing your ideas!
TOPIC | Various eye vials - 90% problem fixes
I understand that FR doesn't release new mechanical features often. We get new apparel and familiars on a regular basis, which I'm really grateful for, but we might get new mechanics once or twice a year.
If I recall correctly, the only two new mechanics we got in 2018 were eyes and Roundsey. Both were RNG-based, with no gameplay-based way to improve your odds. (Unless you count "buying more tickets" as gameplay, which has a hilariously limited effect.)
In other words, 2018 was the year that FR took two major steps toward becoming a gambling game. No other gameplay features were introduced to even it out. I understand that Roundsey serves a greater purpose in the overall economy as a treasure sink. The eyes are a lot more damning.
The difference between the Eyes and Roundsey is that one can ignore Roundsey and still experience 99% of what the site has to offer. The eyes are tied to breeding, which is intended to be the core game mechanic. A breeding sim is defined by your ability to get from point A to point B through careful planning over many generations. If you add random chance into the mix, suddenly there's something you can't plan for. You just slap two dergs on a nest and hope for the best. It's not at all different from rolling dice. I understand that some people like random chance, but you won't find many of them playing breeding sims. The staff completely changed who they want their target audience to be, 5 years after launch.
And here's where we come back to Roundsey. By including retired items as her prizes, the staff told us they believe that just because one person gets something for cheap/free, it doesn't negate the sense of pride that another person gets from working hard for it. So shouldn't the reverse be true too? If some people get the exotic eyes by working hard for the specialized vials, would it cheapen the happiness some people feel by getting them for free? The vast majority of this thread said it would not.
Thank you for a lovely 2018, staff, and I hope you'll think seriously about what kind of game you want this to be in 2019 and beyond. Thank you for your time.
If I recall correctly, the only two new mechanics we got in 2018 were eyes and Roundsey. Both were RNG-based, with no gameplay-based way to improve your odds. (Unless you count "buying more tickets" as gameplay, which has a hilariously limited effect.)
In other words, 2018 was the year that FR took two major steps toward becoming a gambling game. No other gameplay features were introduced to even it out. I understand that Roundsey serves a greater purpose in the overall economy as a treasure sink. The eyes are a lot more damning.
The difference between the Eyes and Roundsey is that one can ignore Roundsey and still experience 99% of what the site has to offer. The eyes are tied to breeding, which is intended to be the core game mechanic. A breeding sim is defined by your ability to get from point A to point B through careful planning over many generations. If you add random chance into the mix, suddenly there's something you can't plan for. You just slap two dergs on a nest and hope for the best. It's not at all different from rolling dice. I understand that some people like random chance, but you won't find many of them playing breeding sims. The staff completely changed who they want their target audience to be, 5 years after launch.
And here's where we come back to Roundsey. By including retired items as her prizes, the staff told us they believe that just because one person gets something for cheap/free, it doesn't negate the sense of pride that another person gets from working hard for it. So shouldn't the reverse be true too? If some people get the exotic eyes by working hard for the specialized vials, would it cheapen the happiness some people feel by getting them for free? The vast majority of this thread said it would not.
Thank you for a lovely 2018, staff, and I hope you'll think seriously about what kind of game you want this to be in 2019 and beyond. Thank you for your time.
I understand that FR doesn't release new mechanical features often. We get new apparel and familiars on a regular basis, which I'm really grateful for, but we might get new mechanics once or twice a year.
If I recall correctly, the only two new mechanics we got in 2018 were eyes and Roundsey. Both were RNG-based, with no gameplay-based way to improve your odds. (Unless you count "buying more tickets" as gameplay, which has a hilariously limited effect.)
In other words, 2018 was the year that FR took two major steps toward becoming a gambling game. No other gameplay features were introduced to even it out. I understand that Roundsey serves a greater purpose in the overall economy as a treasure sink. The eyes are a lot more damning.
The difference between the Eyes and Roundsey is that one can ignore Roundsey and still experience 99% of what the site has to offer. The eyes are tied to breeding, which is intended to be the core game mechanic. A breeding sim is defined by your ability to get from point A to point B through careful planning over many generations. If you add random chance into the mix, suddenly there's something you can't plan for. You just slap two dergs on a nest and hope for the best. It's not at all different from rolling dice. I understand that some people like random chance, but you won't find many of them playing breeding sims. The staff completely changed who they want their target audience to be, 5 years after launch.
And here's where we come back to Roundsey. By including retired items as her prizes, the staff told us they believe that just because one person gets something for cheap/free, it doesn't negate the sense of pride that another person gets from working hard for it. So shouldn't the reverse be true too? If some people get the exotic eyes by working hard for the specialized vials, would it cheapen the happiness some people feel by getting them for free? The vast majority of this thread said it would not.
Thank you for a lovely 2018, staff, and I hope you'll think seriously about what kind of game you want this to be in 2019 and beyond. Thank you for your time.
If I recall correctly, the only two new mechanics we got in 2018 were eyes and Roundsey. Both were RNG-based, with no gameplay-based way to improve your odds. (Unless you count "buying more tickets" as gameplay, which has a hilariously limited effect.)
In other words, 2018 was the year that FR took two major steps toward becoming a gambling game. No other gameplay features were introduced to even it out. I understand that Roundsey serves a greater purpose in the overall economy as a treasure sink. The eyes are a lot more damning.
The difference between the Eyes and Roundsey is that one can ignore Roundsey and still experience 99% of what the site has to offer. The eyes are tied to breeding, which is intended to be the core game mechanic. A breeding sim is defined by your ability to get from point A to point B through careful planning over many generations. If you add random chance into the mix, suddenly there's something you can't plan for. You just slap two dergs on a nest and hope for the best. It's not at all different from rolling dice. I understand that some people like random chance, but you won't find many of them playing breeding sims. The staff completely changed who they want their target audience to be, 5 years after launch.
And here's where we come back to Roundsey. By including retired items as her prizes, the staff told us they believe that just because one person gets something for cheap/free, it doesn't negate the sense of pride that another person gets from working hard for it. So shouldn't the reverse be true too? If some people get the exotic eyes by working hard for the specialized vials, would it cheapen the happiness some people feel by getting them for free? The vast majority of this thread said it would not.
Thank you for a lovely 2018, staff, and I hope you'll think seriously about what kind of game you want this to be in 2019 and beyond. Thank you for your time.
It takes Twelve Years for one Imperial pair to produce a Primal-eyed offspring of a specific sex. Goal-based breeding is dead.
I want to applaud the very well written analysis by Ridara. I know "well written" can seem wishy washy, but it is a really good post with clear points, precise wording, and an effective message. It really conveys how many users feel. Thanks for writing it.
We see a lot of users don't really like gambling. That's the root of many of the "individual scatter scroll" suggestions come from. If FR wanted to be an RNG site, it really should have advertised itself in the beginning as one and made many/most of its original features with an RNG aspect. As a result of not doing that, FR got a player base that likes control over randomness.
Please give us back some of that control. It's why we chose your site in the first place.
We see a lot of users don't really like gambling. That's the root of many of the "individual scatter scroll" suggestions come from. If FR wanted to be an RNG site, it really should have advertised itself in the beginning as one and made many/most of its original features with an RNG aspect. As a result of not doing that, FR got a player base that likes control over randomness.
Please give us back some of that control. It's why we chose your site in the first place.
I want to applaud the very well written analysis by Ridara. I know "well written" can seem wishy washy, but it is a really good post with clear points, precise wording, and an effective message. It really conveys how many users feel. Thanks for writing it.
We see a lot of users don't really like gambling. That's the root of many of the "individual scatter scroll" suggestions come from. If FR wanted to be an RNG site, it really should have advertised itself in the beginning as one and made many/most of its original features with an RNG aspect. As a result of not doing that, FR got a player base that likes control over randomness.
Please give us back some of that control. It's why we chose your site in the first place.
We see a lot of users don't really like gambling. That's the root of many of the "individual scatter scroll" suggestions come from. If FR wanted to be an RNG site, it really should have advertised itself in the beginning as one and made many/most of its original features with an RNG aspect. As a result of not doing that, FR got a player base that likes control over randomness.
Please give us back some of that control. It's why we chose your site in the first place.
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If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
I don’t mind gambling on pet sites, but I do mind when gambling replaces the control we used to have.
Using Scatterscrolls on my dragons is fine because even if I don’t get a colour combo I like, for a fixed rate of 350g/scroll in the MP, I can try again if I feel like it. If I want a specific colour combination for a future project, it would be much more reliable to just get parents with the appropriate colour range and breed them. I could previously guarantee everything but gender, and all breed changes and genes (bar Imperials) are available through the AH, MP, or Baldwin/Swipp if I want different ones.
Aside from a 50% gender chance, I can almost fully control what my dragons’ offspring will look like. And people like that control!
Remember how excited people were when staff added the Vial of Tempered Sight to revert dragons’ eyes to Common? While many users enjoy the chance to hatch other eye types, a huge portion of the userbase really hated the idea of being stuck with random non-Common eyes that they didn’t want (and that could look terrible on their hatchlings). People wanted control over eye types.
Individual eye vials would restore that control- people could choose to either try breeding for certain eyes, or they could save up for a vial. For nests, this is equivalent to either trying to breed dragons with Stripes and Shimmer and hoping you hatch Shimmer, or just saving up and buying a Shimmer scroll from the MP. It doesn’t “ruin the fun of breeding” to have Shimmer available in the MP.
Plus, old dragons and G1s can’t participate at all in the new eye types unless people use Scattersights on them, which have garbage RNG and go for 250g+ each. You could spent 2500g on 10 scatters and get Uncommon every time. :/ That “ruins the fun”, IMO. At least Scatterscrolls have equal odds for all colours, so you’re almost guaranteed to get something else each time, even if it is ugly.
Now that we’re 8 months out of the Eyepocalypse, I’d love to hear some word on the eyes. Legacy eyes are still very much wanted (there is still a lot of offsite upset about this), eye vials are also desperately wanted, and people are practically begging for Scattersights to be brought back. 8 months in! That’s longer than any mass upset has lasted on this site.
Please, staff? Please give us back some of the control we had, and please let us restore our dragons’ eyes to the original art. The fixes would be so easy to implement, and would do so, so much more good than any potential harm (particularly Legacy, which doesn’t affect breeding or scattersights at all).
Using Scatterscrolls on my dragons is fine because even if I don’t get a colour combo I like, for a fixed rate of 350g/scroll in the MP, I can try again if I feel like it. If I want a specific colour combination for a future project, it would be much more reliable to just get parents with the appropriate colour range and breed them. I could previously guarantee everything but gender, and all breed changes and genes (bar Imperials) are available through the AH, MP, or Baldwin/Swipp if I want different ones.
Aside from a 50% gender chance, I can almost fully control what my dragons’ offspring will look like. And people like that control!
Remember how excited people were when staff added the Vial of Tempered Sight to revert dragons’ eyes to Common? While many users enjoy the chance to hatch other eye types, a huge portion of the userbase really hated the idea of being stuck with random non-Common eyes that they didn’t want (and that could look terrible on their hatchlings). People wanted control over eye types.
Individual eye vials would restore that control- people could choose to either try breeding for certain eyes, or they could save up for a vial. For nests, this is equivalent to either trying to breed dragons with Stripes and Shimmer and hoping you hatch Shimmer, or just saving up and buying a Shimmer scroll from the MP. It doesn’t “ruin the fun of breeding” to have Shimmer available in the MP.
Plus, old dragons and G1s can’t participate at all in the new eye types unless people use Scattersights on them, which have garbage RNG and go for 250g+ each. You could spent 2500g on 10 scatters and get Uncommon every time. :/ That “ruins the fun”, IMO. At least Scatterscrolls have equal odds for all colours, so you’re almost guaranteed to get something else each time, even if it is ugly.
Now that we’re 8 months out of the Eyepocalypse, I’d love to hear some word on the eyes. Legacy eyes are still very much wanted (there is still a lot of offsite upset about this), eye vials are also desperately wanted, and people are practically begging for Scattersights to be brought back. 8 months in! That’s longer than any mass upset has lasted on this site.
Please, staff? Please give us back some of the control we had, and please let us restore our dragons’ eyes to the original art. The fixes would be so easy to implement, and would do so, so much more good than any potential harm (particularly Legacy, which doesn’t affect breeding or scattersights at all).
I don’t mind gambling on pet sites, but I do mind when gambling replaces the control we used to have.
Using Scatterscrolls on my dragons is fine because even if I don’t get a colour combo I like, for a fixed rate of 350g/scroll in the MP, I can try again if I feel like it. If I want a specific colour combination for a future project, it would be much more reliable to just get parents with the appropriate colour range and breed them. I could previously guarantee everything but gender, and all breed changes and genes (bar Imperials) are available through the AH, MP, or Baldwin/Swipp if I want different ones.
Aside from a 50% gender chance, I can almost fully control what my dragons’ offspring will look like. And people like that control!
Remember how excited people were when staff added the Vial of Tempered Sight to revert dragons’ eyes to Common? While many users enjoy the chance to hatch other eye types, a huge portion of the userbase really hated the idea of being stuck with random non-Common eyes that they didn’t want (and that could look terrible on their hatchlings). People wanted control over eye types.
Individual eye vials would restore that control- people could choose to either try breeding for certain eyes, or they could save up for a vial. For nests, this is equivalent to either trying to breed dragons with Stripes and Shimmer and hoping you hatch Shimmer, or just saving up and buying a Shimmer scroll from the MP. It doesn’t “ruin the fun of breeding” to have Shimmer available in the MP.
Plus, old dragons and G1s can’t participate at all in the new eye types unless people use Scattersights on them, which have garbage RNG and go for 250g+ each. You could spent 2500g on 10 scatters and get Uncommon every time. :/ That “ruins the fun”, IMO. At least Scatterscrolls have equal odds for all colours, so you’re almost guaranteed to get something else each time, even if it is ugly.
Now that we’re 8 months out of the Eyepocalypse, I’d love to hear some word on the eyes. Legacy eyes are still very much wanted (there is still a lot of offsite upset about this), eye vials are also desperately wanted, and people are practically begging for Scattersights to be brought back. 8 months in! That’s longer than any mass upset has lasted on this site.
Please, staff? Please give us back some of the control we had, and please let us restore our dragons’ eyes to the original art. The fixes would be so easy to implement, and would do so, so much more good than any potential harm (particularly Legacy, which doesn’t affect breeding or scattersights at all).
Using Scatterscrolls on my dragons is fine because even if I don’t get a colour combo I like, for a fixed rate of 350g/scroll in the MP, I can try again if I feel like it. If I want a specific colour combination for a future project, it would be much more reliable to just get parents with the appropriate colour range and breed them. I could previously guarantee everything but gender, and all breed changes and genes (bar Imperials) are available through the AH, MP, or Baldwin/Swipp if I want different ones.
Aside from a 50% gender chance, I can almost fully control what my dragons’ offspring will look like. And people like that control!
Remember how excited people were when staff added the Vial of Tempered Sight to revert dragons’ eyes to Common? While many users enjoy the chance to hatch other eye types, a huge portion of the userbase really hated the idea of being stuck with random non-Common eyes that they didn’t want (and that could look terrible on their hatchlings). People wanted control over eye types.
Individual eye vials would restore that control- people could choose to either try breeding for certain eyes, or they could save up for a vial. For nests, this is equivalent to either trying to breed dragons with Stripes and Shimmer and hoping you hatch Shimmer, or just saving up and buying a Shimmer scroll from the MP. It doesn’t “ruin the fun of breeding” to have Shimmer available in the MP.
Plus, old dragons and G1s can’t participate at all in the new eye types unless people use Scattersights on them, which have garbage RNG and go for 250g+ each. You could spent 2500g on 10 scatters and get Uncommon every time. :/ That “ruins the fun”, IMO. At least Scatterscrolls have equal odds for all colours, so you’re almost guaranteed to get something else each time, even if it is ugly.
Now that we’re 8 months out of the Eyepocalypse, I’d love to hear some word on the eyes. Legacy eyes are still very much wanted (there is still a lot of offsite upset about this), eye vials are also desperately wanted, and people are practically begging for Scattersights to be brought back. 8 months in! That’s longer than any mass upset has lasted on this site.
Please, staff? Please give us back some of the control we had, and please let us restore our dragons’ eyes to the original art. The fixes would be so easy to implement, and would do so, so much more good than any potential harm (particularly Legacy, which doesn’t affect breeding or scattersights at all).
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 Ashes | F +4h FR time Feel free to ping me!
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I support that with the suggestion to set the special vials at a very high price.
I don't even mind like 10kg for a primal vial, most primals, even doubles, do not sell for that much, so there'd be no way that it would mess up the market, but it gives a chance for us to take control of what our dragons would be like....
I don't even mind like 10kg for a primal vial, most primals, even doubles, do not sell for that much, so there'd be no way that it would mess up the market, but it gives a chance for us to take control of what our dragons would be like....
I support that with the suggestion to set the special vials at a very high price.
I don't even mind like 10kg for a primal vial, most primals, even doubles, do not sell for that much, so there'd be no way that it would mess up the market, but it gives a chance for us to take control of what our dragons would be like....
I don't even mind like 10kg for a primal vial, most primals, even doubles, do not sell for that much, so there'd be no way that it would mess up the market, but it gives a chance for us to take control of what our dragons would be like....
I didn't come back to the site until recently and have only freshly been exposed to the eye changes, among many things. It seems emblematic that something like this would be implemented when Flight Rising is in dire need of other fixes and additions. (on the topic of eyes, nest renting/element changing has been a suggestion for a LONG time) Changes that have been left on the table since I stopped playing years ago.
So I am in full support of this and giving people control of their dragons again, but I hope FR staff realize that the intention doesn't matter, what matters is the effect.
So I am in full support of this and giving people control of their dragons again, but I hope FR staff realize that the intention doesn't matter, what matters is the effect.
I didn't come back to the site until recently and have only freshly been exposed to the eye changes, among many things. It seems emblematic that something like this would be implemented when Flight Rising is in dire need of other fixes and additions. (on the topic of eyes, nest renting/element changing has been a suggestion for a LONG time) Changes that have been left on the table since I stopped playing years ago.
So I am in full support of this and giving people control of their dragons again, but I hope FR staff realize that the intention doesn't matter, what matters is the effect.
So I am in full support of this and giving people control of their dragons again, but I hope FR staff realize that the intention doesn't matter, what matters is the effect.
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Them Social Medias
     
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{ Haley / Umbree }
art shop || dragon shop || gallery The two greatest blessings in this world are dragons and cerdaes. Be respectful with your pings please. |
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I feel like the players having control over some aspects of the breeding does have importants, so. Full support.
I feel like the players having control over some aspects of the breeding does have importants, so. Full support.
Sorry I haven’t been around much to flag my continued support, I’ve been preoccupied with holiday stuff and NotN. And post-operative recovery. I also wanted to give special (if very late) condolences to @TehuMertt for your old account, three and a half years of lost progress is devastating to imagine.
I really can’t reiterate enough how much of a transparently poor gambling mechanic the Scattersights were in terms of how they were shoehorned into FR’s breeding structure and economy.
As of late Scattersights are going for 260-280g (averaging around 2$-3$ a pop if you're buying gems through the Purchase Gems option) and that’s an awful lot of money to spend on an item that has a high chance of giving the same result upwards of a dozen times in a row. While players can earn treasure to buy vials with, the time spent earning that amount vs. just caving and buying a gem pack is often not equivocal, especially with users trying to save up in preparation for monthly festivals and events. 250-300k treasure on a high chance for the same outcome (unless you’re starting at common) multiple times in a row is a downright egregious waste of time, even for people who are up for the challenge.
A common thread that I see in arguments against critiquing the inclusion of these sorts of mechanics is “well Stormlight Workshop is a small team” and while it is certainly true that FR is run by a select group of artists, coders, and developers, they are also running a business. Any time they accept money for providing a service (ie: gems) they should be expected to be held accountable for their business decisions, and reviews (even negative ones) from the people buying into the service they’re providing is critical for the sake of quality control and feedback.
This is not to say verbal abuse or threats to staff are by any means acceptable. However, people defending their decisions from any hint of negativity whenever something like this happens are making it very easy for the company to conduct its business consequence free, and that is a serious issue where accountability for introducing risky, high-profit gambling mechanics into a game targeted (somewhat) for a teen-rated audience is concerned.
Just because something is "good" for in-game profiteers does not mean that it is particularly ethical as a business practice.
On a more personal note, something else that hasn’t been discussed as much, at least as far as I’ve seen, is how even getting “lucky” rolls can lead to disappointment.
Say you want to get Rare on a specific dragon; they have the perfect colors for two-toned eyes of that particular element, and Rare isn’t as difficult to roll for as Primal or Multi. It’s a manageable goal to shoot for.
On your first roll you get Primal. The Primal eyes don’t work well with the chosen colors, but due to the odds being so skewed you might feel stuck; do you sell off this almost-perfect dragon for monetary worth of the Primal eyes to try and earn some of the money you spent on buying vials, or do you continue rolling for a less “desirable” eye type? Even if you continue to roll you could happen on Multi before getting Rare (unlikely but due to the random nature of RNG it’s possible).
Even for users wanting low-or-mid-tier rarity eyes the Scattersights can cause issues; I have a lot of dream dragons that I would love to get Uncommon/Unusual/Rare on, and could feasibly try for that in breeding or even just using Scattersights. Unfortunately, due to the forced rarity of the Vials there’s still a chance of losing out even if I accidentally roll a “good” eye type if it’s not the right eye type. With the possibility of disappointment and feeling that I’ve wasted a rare chance on the wrong dragon, it just doesn’t feel worth trying.
I really can’t reiterate enough how much of a transparently poor gambling mechanic the Scattersights were in terms of how they were shoehorned into FR’s breeding structure and economy.
As of late Scattersights are going for 260-280g (averaging around 2$-3$ a pop if you're buying gems through the Purchase Gems option) and that’s an awful lot of money to spend on an item that has a high chance of giving the same result upwards of a dozen times in a row. While players can earn treasure to buy vials with, the time spent earning that amount vs. just caving and buying a gem pack is often not equivocal, especially with users trying to save up in preparation for monthly festivals and events. 250-300k treasure on a high chance for the same outcome (unless you’re starting at common) multiple times in a row is a downright egregious waste of time, even for people who are up for the challenge.
A common thread that I see in arguments against critiquing the inclusion of these sorts of mechanics is “well Stormlight Workshop is a small team” and while it is certainly true that FR is run by a select group of artists, coders, and developers, they are also running a business. Any time they accept money for providing a service (ie: gems) they should be expected to be held accountable for their business decisions, and reviews (even negative ones) from the people buying into the service they’re providing is critical for the sake of quality control and feedback.
This is not to say verbal abuse or threats to staff are by any means acceptable. However, people defending their decisions from any hint of negativity whenever something like this happens are making it very easy for the company to conduct its business consequence free, and that is a serious issue where accountability for introducing risky, high-profit gambling mechanics into a game targeted (somewhat) for a teen-rated audience is concerned.
Just because something is "good" for in-game profiteers does not mean that it is particularly ethical as a business practice.
On a more personal note, something else that hasn’t been discussed as much, at least as far as I’ve seen, is how even getting “lucky” rolls can lead to disappointment.
Say you want to get Rare on a specific dragon; they have the perfect colors for two-toned eyes of that particular element, and Rare isn’t as difficult to roll for as Primal or Multi. It’s a manageable goal to shoot for.
On your first roll you get Primal. The Primal eyes don’t work well with the chosen colors, but due to the odds being so skewed you might feel stuck; do you sell off this almost-perfect dragon for monetary worth of the Primal eyes to try and earn some of the money you spent on buying vials, or do you continue rolling for a less “desirable” eye type? Even if you continue to roll you could happen on Multi before getting Rare (unlikely but due to the random nature of RNG it’s possible).
Even for users wanting low-or-mid-tier rarity eyes the Scattersights can cause issues; I have a lot of dream dragons that I would love to get Uncommon/Unusual/Rare on, and could feasibly try for that in breeding or even just using Scattersights. Unfortunately, due to the forced rarity of the Vials there’s still a chance of losing out even if I accidentally roll a “good” eye type if it’s not the right eye type. With the possibility of disappointment and feeling that I’ve wasted a rare chance on the wrong dragon, it just doesn’t feel worth trying.
Sorry I haven’t been around much to flag my continued support, I’ve been preoccupied with holiday stuff and NotN. And post-operative recovery. I also wanted to give special (if very late) condolences to @TehuMertt for your old account, three and a half years of lost progress is devastating to imagine.
I really can’t reiterate enough how much of a transparently poor gambling mechanic the Scattersights were in terms of how they were shoehorned into FR’s breeding structure and economy.
As of late Scattersights are going for 260-280g (averaging around 2$-3$ a pop if you're buying gems through the Purchase Gems option) and that’s an awful lot of money to spend on an item that has a high chance of giving the same result upwards of a dozen times in a row. While players can earn treasure to buy vials with, the time spent earning that amount vs. just caving and buying a gem pack is often not equivocal, especially with users trying to save up in preparation for monthly festivals and events. 250-300k treasure on a high chance for the same outcome (unless you’re starting at common) multiple times in a row is a downright egregious waste of time, even for people who are up for the challenge.
A common thread that I see in arguments against critiquing the inclusion of these sorts of mechanics is “well Stormlight Workshop is a small team” and while it is certainly true that FR is run by a select group of artists, coders, and developers, they are also running a business. Any time they accept money for providing a service (ie: gems) they should be expected to be held accountable for their business decisions, and reviews (even negative ones) from the people buying into the service they’re providing is critical for the sake of quality control and feedback.
This is not to say verbal abuse or threats to staff are by any means acceptable. However, people defending their decisions from any hint of negativity whenever something like this happens are making it very easy for the company to conduct its business consequence free, and that is a serious issue where accountability for introducing risky, high-profit gambling mechanics into a game targeted (somewhat) for a teen-rated audience is concerned.
Just because something is "good" for in-game profiteers does not mean that it is particularly ethical as a business practice.
On a more personal note, something else that hasn’t been discussed as much, at least as far as I’ve seen, is how even getting “lucky” rolls can lead to disappointment.
Say you want to get Rare on a specific dragon; they have the perfect colors for two-toned eyes of that particular element, and Rare isn’t as difficult to roll for as Primal or Multi. It’s a manageable goal to shoot for.
On your first roll you get Primal. The Primal eyes don’t work well with the chosen colors, but due to the odds being so skewed you might feel stuck; do you sell off this almost-perfect dragon for monetary worth of the Primal eyes to try and earn some of the money you spent on buying vials, or do you continue rolling for a less “desirable” eye type? Even if you continue to roll you could happen on Multi before getting Rare (unlikely but due to the random nature of RNG it’s possible).
Even for users wanting low-or-mid-tier rarity eyes the Scattersights can cause issues; I have a lot of dream dragons that I would love to get Uncommon/Unusual/Rare on, and could feasibly try for that in breeding or even just using Scattersights. Unfortunately, due to the forced rarity of the Vials there’s still a chance of losing out even if I accidentally roll a “good” eye type if it’s not the right eye type. With the possibility of disappointment and feeling that I’ve wasted a rare chance on the wrong dragon, it just doesn’t feel worth trying.
I really can’t reiterate enough how much of a transparently poor gambling mechanic the Scattersights were in terms of how they were shoehorned into FR’s breeding structure and economy.
As of late Scattersights are going for 260-280g (averaging around 2$-3$ a pop if you're buying gems through the Purchase Gems option) and that’s an awful lot of money to spend on an item that has a high chance of giving the same result upwards of a dozen times in a row. While players can earn treasure to buy vials with, the time spent earning that amount vs. just caving and buying a gem pack is often not equivocal, especially with users trying to save up in preparation for monthly festivals and events. 250-300k treasure on a high chance for the same outcome (unless you’re starting at common) multiple times in a row is a downright egregious waste of time, even for people who are up for the challenge.
A common thread that I see in arguments against critiquing the inclusion of these sorts of mechanics is “well Stormlight Workshop is a small team” and while it is certainly true that FR is run by a select group of artists, coders, and developers, they are also running a business. Any time they accept money for providing a service (ie: gems) they should be expected to be held accountable for their business decisions, and reviews (even negative ones) from the people buying into the service they’re providing is critical for the sake of quality control and feedback.
This is not to say verbal abuse or threats to staff are by any means acceptable. However, people defending their decisions from any hint of negativity whenever something like this happens are making it very easy for the company to conduct its business consequence free, and that is a serious issue where accountability for introducing risky, high-profit gambling mechanics into a game targeted (somewhat) for a teen-rated audience is concerned.
Just because something is "good" for in-game profiteers does not mean that it is particularly ethical as a business practice.
On a more personal note, something else that hasn’t been discussed as much, at least as far as I’ve seen, is how even getting “lucky” rolls can lead to disappointment.
Say you want to get Rare on a specific dragon; they have the perfect colors for two-toned eyes of that particular element, and Rare isn’t as difficult to roll for as Primal or Multi. It’s a manageable goal to shoot for.
On your first roll you get Primal. The Primal eyes don’t work well with the chosen colors, but due to the odds being so skewed you might feel stuck; do you sell off this almost-perfect dragon for monetary worth of the Primal eyes to try and earn some of the money you spent on buying vials, or do you continue rolling for a less “desirable” eye type? Even if you continue to roll you could happen on Multi before getting Rare (unlikely but due to the random nature of RNG it’s possible).
Even for users wanting low-or-mid-tier rarity eyes the Scattersights can cause issues; I have a lot of dream dragons that I would love to get Uncommon/Unusual/Rare on, and could feasibly try for that in breeding or even just using Scattersights. Unfortunately, due to the forced rarity of the Vials there’s still a chance of losing out even if I accidentally roll a “good” eye type if it’s not the right eye type. With the possibility of disappointment and feeling that I’ve wasted a rare chance on the wrong dragon, it just doesn’t feel worth trying.
“Denizens of the Volt-Lands”
She/They/He | FR Time +0
I find the same dilemma with breeding. On occassion, I've popped out facet/multi/primal on a dragon that would otherwise just be exalt fodder. So I try to sell them for more because, hey, special eyes. The thing is, spiffy eyes don't sell for more any more because the market has plenty. So if the staff's aim was that unique eyes be a "special" hatch that makes us feel all good inside and gets us extra money through selling...well, they don't any more. So IMHO, it's time to rethink the mechanic and give us individual vials, cycling scattervials and legacy eyes.
I find the same dilemma with breeding. On occassion, I've popped out facet/multi/primal on a dragon that would otherwise just be exalt fodder. So I try to sell them for more because, hey, special eyes. The thing is, spiffy eyes don't sell for more any more because the market has plenty. So if the staff's aim was that unique eyes be a "special" hatch that makes us feel all good inside and gets us extra money through selling...well, they don't any more. So IMHO, it's time to rethink the mechanic and give us individual vials, cycling scattervials and legacy eyes.
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If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
Full support. I wasn't able to play FR during the anniversary and therefore didn't even have a chance at getting extra vials. I don't want to spend hours of my life trying to earn enough gems for one scattersight that most likely won't even give me the variation I want.
Full support. I wasn't able to play FR during the anniversary and therefore didn't even have a chance at getting extra vials. I don't want to spend hours of my life trying to earn enough gems for one scattersight that most likely won't even give me the variation I want.
