Quests & Challenges

[quote name="Hiii" date="2022-09-30 22:09:32" ] otherwise i find it quite weird how quickly you and @/GrayGriffin decided to vote, we still have 48 hours, no? im going to be honest this is just really suspicious to me, and that's coming from someone who also thinks @/CelesticLeo is squinty as well. i do realize that we can always change our answers but this is,, off [/quote] Mostly it's just...Leo's been consistently suspicious to me throughout the whole game, and so far haven't really given me any reason to [i]not[/i] suspect them. So I don't see any reason I shouldn't confirm that suspicion right away either. Like you said, we can change that later.

I woke up this morning with 30 pings and was thinking I just missed a novel lol. It was for some festival stuff xD -------- (started this as I read through) [s]So LynxSideris role card was [REDACTED]? So what is the benefit of having an ability that can cover up role cards of eliminated players? Does it bring more confusion to the mix since we will not know whether or not they were third-party or scum?[/s] So I also felt it was weird for @/Shimmerwing & @/GrayGriffin to immediately jump to the conclusion that LynxSideris was 3rd party or scum. However here's my thinking, @/dandelionfires was a very strong player. They were a very good townie who even though they hadn't had as much experience had a solid way of leading conversation and asking important questions. I think it would have been more chaotic to hide [b]their[/b] role card than if @/LynxSideris really was just a townie. If Lynx was a town then everyone would have just mourned the loss of an inexperienced player who made too many "mistakes" at communicating. dandelionfires on the other had acted as a bit of the glue that holds us townies together. If they had intentionally been scum than who else was flying under the radar? @lyrelore I'd like to hear your thoughts as well as @Ainsell ---------- @Shimmerwing What are you meaning by this? (Quoted below) Do you think it was suspicious that I asked something that had previously been stated? I will disagree that I don't think my questions are "mistakes." I think voting for an eliminated player D1 was a mistake that I learned from. I do understand voting off a sus player who could just be a bad townie who hasn't helped or contributed. I guess this game really isn't a friendly game to learn. I can't be mad at the way it goes though. [quote]behavior about the visit announcement (when dandelions has stated that it was a one-shot). [/quote] -------- @/Hiii So I ended up not using the ability yesterday. The ability is something that personally benefits me. I ended up not being able to use it yesterday due to getting caught up with some IRL issues and was worried my vote for LynxSideris wouldn't have counted. --------- @/GrayGriffin In their defense at least they have been consistent and voted for me every round. I still disagree with their suscpsiuon as anyone does when accused, but I will say I feel the majority of my suscpsion has come from 2 things: [LIST] [*] My D1 voting views were developed based on other gameplay. [*] Visting an elim. player because I didn't think how that would look. [/LIST] I have asked some questions that were also already explained once but I admitted that was due to me overglancing things just like a few already have.

[quote]I think voting for an eliminated player D1[/quote] meant to say visiting ^

okay, the fact that Lynx's rolecard is hidden is certainly interesting, and losing a player like @/dandelionfires ... i don't feel very good about that. @CelesticLeo (and @Hiii and @Tanglefire who also questioned this) [quote name="CelesticLeo" date="2022-10-01 08:30:53" ] So I also felt it was weird for @/Shimmerwing & @/GrayGriffin to immediately jump to the conclusion that LynxSideris was 3rd party or scum. [/quote] @/Shimmerwing revoked their conclusion about Lynx being third-party about three minutes after they had made it, stating: [quote name="Shimmerwing" date="2022-09-30 21:59:01" ] i am So Tired and forgot that this is a chaotic game. i totally did not take into account of whether rolecard hiding abilities exist in this game or not... ugh. [...] [/quote] nobody had the chance to point out this was odd before they changed their mind about it, so i personally don't see anything off or sus about it - merely a lapse in judgement (memory? something). i suppose there's a chance, if they are scum, that scumteam could've quickly told them that it was odd to jump to conclusions about Lynx's role, but i personally think that's a bit of a long shot. however i do agree that GrayGriffin immediately suggesting Lynx was either third party or scum with a rolecard-hiding passive (they said "rolecard-hiding [b]ability[/b]" but the way it was worded makes me assume they meant it was their own ability, not someone else's that had been used on them). it could just be another brain lapse or it could be... something else, perhaps? [quote name="CelesticLeo" date="2022-10-01 08:30:53" ] However here's my thinking, @/dandelionfires was a very strong player. They were a very good townie who even though they hadn't had as much experience had a solid way of leading conversation and asking important questions. I think it would have been more chaotic to hide [b]their[/b] role card than if @/LynxSideris really was just a townie. If Lynx was a town then everyone would have just mourned the loss of an inexperienced player who made too many "mistakes" at communicating. dandelionfires on the other had acted as a bit of the glue that holds us townies together. If they had intentionally been scum than who else was flying under the radar? [/quote] first of all, let's not rule out the possibility that Lynx hid their role card themselves, with a passive that hid their rolecard either upon elimination, kill, both, or just in general. i understand your reasoning for @/dandelionfires being a better player to hide the rolecard of than @/LynxSideris but i'm personally not sure where i stand on who would've been better to hide. it's true that dandelion was a very valuable player, and i don't think many people really suspected them, so hiding their rolecard could send people into a bit of a panic - but i also think hiding @/LynxSideris's rolecard was a good, albeit possibly simpler play. as @/Tanglefire put it: [quote name="Tanglefire" date="2022-09-30 23:25:09" ] I like Hiii’s thoughts on how the Rolecard might be hidden on purpose by mafia. I can see the logic behind this action honestly. If Lynx were maf: we now have no idea that maf lost another member If Lynx were town: we have no idea that we lost a member This also kinda prevent us from gleaning too much info off their elim, and because now we wouldn’t know if the people they sussed are actual susses or made up ones (if they’re maf) [/quote] and adding onto that, honestly, i think the confusion that would've been caused by choosing to hide Lynx's rolecard rather than dandelion's is also valuable - discussion helps both ourselves and scum, and they'd be able to see what all of our thoughts on the move were and find out who was the next most important player to eliminate. - - - @/Hiii [quote name="Hiii" date="2022-09-30 21:53:43" ] but we have a bit of new information at least. there is definitely a scum who can hide rolecards, and that ability is likely one/two shot for balancing. interesting that it was used now instead of d1. [/quote] or Lynx might've had a passive that allows them to hide their own rolecard - unless i'm missing something of course. (am i missing something?) - - - @GrayGriffin [quote name="GrayGriffin" date="2022-09-30 23:51:46" ] Mostly it's just...Leo's been consistently suspicious to me throughout the whole game, and so far haven't really given me any reason to [i]not[/i] suspect them. So I don't see any reason I shouldn't confirm that suspicion right away either. Like you said, we can change that later. [/quote] how does voting for Leo "confirm your suspicion" about her? the only thing that would definitively "confirm your suspicion" about Leo is if she were voted out and proven to be scum or third party or if she was somehow revealed to be scum or third party in some other way. it's true that you can always change your vote later but you can't hide your previous votes, so anyone can look at your previous (and current) votes to inform their reads on you, which can be bad for you in multiple ways (if town find your previous votes to be sus or if scum find your previous votes to be endangering to them). - - - @Tanglefire [quote name="Tanglefire" date="2022-09-30 23:25:09" ] Second line: but scum would have definitely visited them? Kills count as visits last I checked. I think this is more of a thought train mistake when you typed up this post, ( (but if we over read a bit potentially trying to lead ppl from realising there is a maf that is non redirectabke non blockable now). I’ll admit you entire death analysis paragraph is sitting rather odd to me. [/quote] personally i'm leaning towards it being an innocent mistake. a quick check of the thread shows that Shimmerwing subbed in quite a while after the "Maf kills count as visits" confirmation - said confirmation occurred on page 28 (the very top of the page), while Shimmerwing's first post wasn't made until page 35.

so i'm kind of frustrated that we don't know where we sit on lynx's alignment- i didn't know there was something that could hide roles like that. feels a little like i just started getting the idea of how everything was balanced and then had a thumb put on the scales. is there potentially a role that can clear up that? not asking anyone to role claim- don't do that, please- i'm just wondering if it's a possibility in the game. it'd be cool to know more about where we sit instead of having to make assumptions taking this into account. feels less like deduction, more like hoping for the best. bleh. [quote name="CelesticLeo" date="2022-10-01 08:30:53" ] However here's my thinking, @/dandelionfires was a very strong player. They were a very good townie who even though they hadn't had as much experience had a solid way of leading conversation and asking important questions. I think it would have been more chaotic to hide [b]their[/b] role card than if @/LynxSideris really was just a townie. If Lynx was a town then everyone would have just mourned the loss of an inexperienced player who made too many "mistakes" at communicating. dandelionfires on the other had acted as a bit of the glue that holds us townies together. If they had intentionally been scum than who else was flying under the radar? @/lyrelore I'd like to hear your thoughts as well as @/Ainsell [/quote] @CelesticLeo i'll... admit to being a little confused on your thought process here. dandelion was the maf kill, right? ... why would the mafia hide dandelion here? why would they decide to kill another maf player and then hide the rolecard- or suggest that they had somehow 'accidentally' killed... i'm so confused, actually. i will note that losing dandelion isn't my favorite thing, but i'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. like you said, they led a lot of the discussions and sort of held us together. they seem like a prime target for an early kill, and now i'm questioning how they survived this long, honestly. might be something i'll dig into. (it's also the last day of starfall and i have a [i]lot[/i] of water cdc work that i've been putting off so i might be sporadic, sorry everyone)

@Ainsell [quote name="Ainsell" date="2022-10-01 11:49:37" ] i'll... admit to being a little confused on your thought process here. dandelion was the maf kill, right? ... why would the mafia hide dandelion here? why would they decide to kill another maf player and then hide the rolecard- or suggest that they had somehow 'accidentally' killed... i'm so confused, actually. [/quote] i actually didn't think about this at all thank you for bringing this up - with this in mind i really see no reason for scum to hide dandelion's rolecard rather than Lynx's. sure, it'd cause some confusion, but not really the sort of confusion that would be beneficial to scum, just sort of "why did they do this lol". i feel if dandelion's rolecard had been hidden it would be pretty safe to assume they were town because the loss of a teammate for scum seems way more impactful than the confusion that hiding dandelion's rolecard would bring about. best case scenario (for scum), dandelion is a town, they kill dandelion and hide their rolecard, maybe a tiny bit of confusion but nothing serious. worst case scenario, they kill one of their own teammates with the same effect on town but a way worse effect on them.

[quote name="lyrelore" date="2022-10-01 11:27:25" ] however i do agree that GrayGriffin immediately suggesting Lynx was either third party or scum with a rolecard-hiding passive (they said "rolecard-hiding [b]ability[/b]" but the way it was worded makes me assume they meant it was their own ability, not someone else's that had been used on them). it could just be another brain lapse or it could be... something else, perhaps? [/quote] @lyrelore I literally don't see what's so suspicious about that? Most of the rolecard-hiding abilities/roles I've seen in non-bastard games have just been "hide your own role" types, so I naturally assumed it was that? If FR Mafia has different traditions around that, then I don't know. [quote] how does voting for Leo "confirm your suspicion" about her? the only thing that would definitively "confirm your suspicion" about Leo is if she were voted out and proven to be scum or third party or if she was somehow revealed to be scum or third party in some other way. [/quote] I meant "confirm my suspicion" as in "confirm I'm still suspecting her." Again, I don't see it as unusual in mafia to vote early for someone you suspect, especially in later days. I admit it's kind of annoying to be suspected just because I'm apparently working off different assumptions than everyone else.

[quote name="lyrelore" date="2022-10-01 11:57:26" ] i actually didn't think about this at all thank you for bringing this up - with this in mind i really see no reason for scum to hide dandelion's rolecard rather than Lynx's. sure, it'd cause some confusion, but not really the sort of confusion that would be beneficial to scum, just sort of "why did they do this lol". i feel if dandelion's rolecard had been hidden it would be pretty safe to assume they were town because the loss of a teammate for scum seems way more impactful than the confusion that hiding dandelion's rolecard would bring about. best case scenario (for scum), dandelion is a town, they kill dandelion and hide their rolecard, maybe a tiny bit of confusion but nothing serious. worst case scenario, they kill one of their own teammates with the same effect on town but a way worse effect on them. [/quote] The only hypothetical scenario I can see for them hiding dandelion's rolecard is if they somehow knew there was a third-party killer running around, or had a way to do a second kill that night, so there would be an extra dead town to divert everyone's assumptions.

Okay, finally time to catch up... Not really surprised we lost dandelion, they were a very strong player, definitely who I would've taken out. The real surprise is ofc Lynx's role being redacted. Now we don't even have 100% certainty they were scum, nor their abilities. [quote name="Shimmerwing" date="2022-09-30 21:56:57" ] i am going to put in a vote for now and see what happens :) [/quote] [quote name="GrayGriffin" date="2022-09-30 22:01:36" ] Anyways still voting for Leo, by the way. [/quote] I'm sorry you what now DANDELION'S TEA ISN'T EVEN COLD AND YOU'RE PREPARING TO THROW LEO'S CUP OUT ALREADY Seriously though, what's the rush? I could understand if we only had one irl day per in-game one, then even with the fact that we can change votes you might cast your current biggest suspicion in the beginning just in case sth happens and you can't get online again or sth, but we have two whole days. Finding it extremely weird to be so eager to jump the gun on voting. [quote name="Hiii" date="2022-09-30 22:09:32" ] otherwise i find it quite weird how quickly you and @/GrayGriffin decided to vote, we still have 48 hours, no? im going to be honest this is just really suspicious to me, and that's coming from someone who also thinks @/CelesticLeo is squinty as well. i do realize that we can always change our answers but this is,, off [/quote] Oh, good, not just me who was blindsided by this. [quote name="CelesticLeo" date="2022-10-01 08:30:53" ] However here's my thinking, @/dandelionfires was a very strong player. They were a very good townie who even though they hadn't had as much experience had a solid way of leading conversation and asking important questions. I think it would have been more chaotic to hide [b]their[/b] role card than if @/LynxSideris really was just a townie. If Lynx was a town then everyone would have just mourned the loss of an inexperienced player who made too many "mistakes" at communicating. dandelionfires on the other had acted as a bit of the glue that holds us townies together. If they had intentionally been scum than who else was flying under the radar? [/quote] This occurred to me as well. One explanation for it is that Lynx's passive was hiding their rolecard upon their death. Another that using it on dandelion might've been a bit too obvious since the odds of them being scum were pretty low at this point, so we would've recognised it as obfuscation pretty easily, therefore whoever did it went for Lynx instead so we wouldn't have the certainty of 2 eliminated scum, which would be pretty good for town. Now we're down one solid townie and left with 'yeah we think they were scum but maaaaybe...???' [quote name="Ainsell" date="2022-10-01 11:49:37" ] it'd be cool to know more about where we sit instead of having to make assumptions taking this into account. feels less like deduction, more like hoping for the best. bleh. [/quote] Same, and I think that's why their role being hidden was by far the better move for scum. [quote name="Ainsell" date="2022-10-01 11:49:37" ] i'll... admit to being a little confused on your thought process here. dandelion was the maf kill, right? ... why would the mafia hide dandelion here? why would they decide to kill another maf player and then hide the rolecard- or suggest that they had somehow 'accidentally' killed... i'm so confused, actually. [/quote] They could've been third party, but as I said already I think we all collectively would've put that possibility behind us quite quickly, since there aren't many, if any third party roles that would've fit the way they'd been playing. Just took my acute migraine meds so gonna take a nap while that kicks in, will try to do some readings when I wake back up, but really side-eyeing Shimmerwing and GrayGriffin atm, especially with how casually Shimmer announced their vote in an almost 'yolo' type of manner.

Okay before I drop back asleep, I’ll admit I’m a bit uncertain about voting for Celestic.
They definitely were not kind of pinging me off in D1, but in the last 24 hours I feel like their posts have improved quite. I overall have a better impression of them now. But at the same time out of everyone here, they do still rank the lowest in terms of towniness.

@graygriffin @shimmerwing
May I ask if there are particular posts that make you think they’re elim worthy? Particularly the more recent posts? I know graygriffin say they’ve been sus all along, but even the more recent ones?

I’ll probably iso them or sth tmr when I wake up. I’m partial to a Celestic elim, but if they really end up being the best choice I’ll vote it. And honestly if they flip town then we can just look into gray and shimmer.