I'm glad that this giant post is being made a thing, so thank you, and good work on going over everything and pinging everyone.
Personally, and I mean PERSONALLY, I think that a venus/mars scroll, if possible, would be great! It would make breeding easier, and a lot of other websites already have it.
But after the whole gender controversy blew up I realize it's better if it didn't happen. The pose change is a blatant no for too many reasons for me to list, and it's too difficult to code now for reasons I've already stated, many times before, but people either don't try to understand or ignore.
TL;DR just let the dragons be, something like this would only work well if programmed very early on in development.
But please make the second one available. That one is fair and I can agree with, and would be a great money/gem sink.
I'm glad that this giant post is being made a thing, so thank you, and good work on going over everything and pinging everyone.
Personally, and I mean PERSONALLY, I think that a venus/mars scroll, if possible, would be great! It would make breeding easier, and a lot of other websites already have it.
But after the whole gender controversy blew up I realize it's better if it didn't happen. The pose change is a blatant no for too many reasons for me to list, and it's too difficult to code now for reasons I've already stated, many times before, but people either don't try to understand or ignore.
TL;DR just let the dragons be, something like this would only work well if programmed very early on in development.
But please make the second one available. That one is fair and I can agree with, and would be a great money/gem sink.
I support;
-Pose Change < ---- Biggest Preference, 1000% support, best idea I've seen
-'Gender' (Mars/Venus) change if the dragon became unbreedable, and I personally would prefer if the dragon could be changed, even if it's been bred in the past. A person can have children and still get a sex-change after-the-fact, so the dragon not having offspring, I think, is an unnecessary restriction. Also, I don't have any unbred dragons, so this contingent would make the item useless to me.
However, if it would break the coding, then 'not-having offspring' option would be better than no option at all.
I mostly just don't like a some of poses for one breed's gender versus another, and sometimes I just like the way an item/skin/looks on one over the other, so Pose Change would be the best thing (IMO).
I support;
-Pose Change < ---- Biggest Preference, 1000% support, best idea I've seen
-'Gender' (Mars/Venus) change if the dragon became unbreedable, and I personally would prefer if the dragon could be changed, even if it's been bred in the past. A person can have children and still get a sex-change after-the-fact, so the dragon not having offspring, I think, is an unnecessary restriction. Also, I don't have any unbred dragons, so this contingent would make the item useless to me.
However, if it would break the coding, then 'not-having offspring' option would be better than no option at all.
I mostly just don't like a some of poses for one breed's gender versus another, and sometimes I just like the way an item/skin/looks on one over the other, so Pose Change would be the best thing (IMO).
I honestly don't see how it completely eliminates the challenge. It makes one aspect of breeding slightly easier. No one said the scroll had to be easy to get, and the sex of the dragon is far from the only thing we take into account when breeding. I don't feel like the challenge would go down for me in any significant way, and I'm all for players being able to customize their dragons in as many ways as possible.
I don't know whether it's something that can be coded properly, but that's up to the people in charge of coding. I also don't see the point in users basing what they want on what they think the coders can or cannot do.
Anyway, yes, I'm in support of such an item. I probably wouldn't use it myself, but I know that it's important to some people, especially for RP purposes.
I honestly don't see how it completely eliminates the challenge. It makes one aspect of breeding slightly easier. No one said the scroll had to be easy to get, and the sex of the dragon is far from the only thing we take into account when breeding. I don't feel like the challenge would go down for me in any significant way, and I'm all for players being able to customize their dragons in as many ways as possible.
I don't know whether it's something that can be coded properly, but that's up to the people in charge of coding. I also don't see the point in users basing what they want on what they think the coders can or cannot do.
Anyway, yes, I'm in support of such an item. I probably wouldn't use it myself, but I know that it's important to some people, especially for RP purposes.
I support this only with the following limitations:
[quote name="gemajgall" date="2014-11-23 15:09:07"]*Only unbred dragons can be changed.
*Any dragon that gets a sex/gender change becomes infertile.
*A sex/gender scroll can only be used once per dragon, so a dragon cannot change from male to female and back again.
*Two scrolls: a Scroll of Venus and a Scroll of Mars. Since using the term "sex" or "gender" is a hot topic, making two items eliminates the need to choose which term to use and risk alienating users.[/quote]
Also, there would need to be a way to mark a dragon as infertile so that a potential buyer knows what to expect.
I only support it because I'm a first gen collector and it would be immensely frustrating to finally hatch my dream dragon...as the incorrect sex. However, limitations such as infertility are necessary because the scrolls would be overpowered otherwise.
I think alternative suggestion 1 is a nice compromise, but I can also see how it might complicate things for buyers in the AH who only look at the dragon's pose and not the Venus/Mars symbols.
As for alternative suggestion 2, I'm not sure heating/cooling a nest to influence the future hatchlings makes sense lore-wise. Dragons are [url=http://undel.tumblr.com/post/102550307382/mousetaill-are-fr-dragons-cold-blooded-or]warm-blooded[/url].
edit: I'm glad you made this post, gemajgall, and I hope that it cuts down on the number of suggestions made regarding this idea or promotes actually productive discussion
I support this only with the following limitations:
gemajgall wrote on 2014-11-23 15:09:07:
*Only unbred dragons can be changed.
*Any dragon that gets a sex/gender change becomes infertile.
*A sex/gender scroll can only be used once per dragon, so a dragon cannot change from male to female and back again.
*Two scrolls: a Scroll of Venus and a Scroll of Mars. Since using the term "sex" or "gender" is a hot topic, making two items eliminates the need to choose which term to use and risk alienating users.
Also, there would need to be a way to mark a dragon as infertile so that a potential buyer knows what to expect.
I only support it because I'm a first gen collector and it would be immensely frustrating to finally hatch my dream dragon...as the incorrect sex. However, limitations such as infertility are necessary because the scrolls would be overpowered otherwise.
I think alternative suggestion 1 is a nice compromise, but I can also see how it might complicate things for buyers in the AH who only look at the dragon's pose and not the Venus/Mars symbols.
As for alternative suggestion 2, I'm not sure heating/cooling a nest to influence the future hatchlings makes sense lore-wise. Dragons are
warm-blooded.
edit: I'm glad you made this post, gemajgall, and I hope that it cuts down on the number of suggestions made regarding this idea or promotes actually productive discussion
Quote:
Suggestion 1:
A pose change scroll. This lets users display a male dragon with a female image or vice versa. The dragon in question is still male and thus can only breed with females and would still have the mars symbol, but would look like a female.
Although I am in favor of an outright sex change scroll, I think a pose change is a fine compromise.
Quote:
Suggestion 1:
A pose change scroll. This lets users display a male dragon with a female image or vice versa. The dragon in question is still male and thus can only breed with females and would still have the mars symbol, but would look like a female.
Although I am in favor of an outright sex change scroll, I think a pose change is a fine compromise.
I still support this idea and still don't get people declining it because it would make breeding "too easy". Because who are you to decide some elses process of breeding their dreamdragon or the level of advance they breed on.
If you don't want it, don't buy it, but let others have the chance to use it because it does seem like there are a lot of people who do like the idea and would love to get a gender-change on their dragons or something similar.
I would be totally fine with either the real gender-change scroll or with this:
[quote name="gemajgall" date="2014-11-23 15:09:07"]
[b]Alternative Suggestion 2:[/b]
A sex/gender-skew-er item. Since reptiles are male or female based on the temperature of their nests, and since dragons are reptiles, this one-time use item would heat up or cool down a nest. A hotter nest would hatch females 3 out of 4 times while a cooler nest will hatch males 3 out of 4 times.
[/quote]
As for the limitations: Yes, I would definitely say it can only be used on dragons that have not yet mated but I wouldn't go too far and make em infertile. If they are now registered as male instead of female (example) there should not be any problem with breeding it.
I still support this idea and still don't get people declining it because it would make breeding "too easy". Because who are you to decide some elses process of breeding their dreamdragon or the level of advance they breed on.
If you don't want it, don't buy it, but let others have the chance to use it because it does seem like there are a lot of people who do like the idea and would love to get a gender-change on their dragons or something similar.
I would be totally fine with either the real gender-change scroll or with this:
gemajgall wrote on 2014-11-23 15:09:07:
Alternative Suggestion 2:
A sex/gender-skew-er item. Since reptiles are male or female based on the temperature of their nests, and since dragons are reptiles, this one-time use item would heat up or cool down a nest. A hotter nest would hatch females 3 out of 4 times while a cooler nest will hatch males 3 out of 4 times.
As for the limitations: Yes, I would definitely say it can only be used on dragons that have not yet mated but I wouldn't go too far and make em infertile. If they are now registered as male instead of female (example) there should not be any problem with breeding it.
[quote=DragonSage]I do not support a sex change scroll that would allow you to change the sex and then be able to breed according to the newly assigned sex (IE You have two males, you change one of them to a female and then you would be able to breed the male to the female). I don't support this for a couple of reasons:
First of all, it would probably involve having to recode a fair amount of the breeding/display system which I think could be better spent adding new features rather than recoding a system that works perfectly fine the way it is. The reason I say it could involve a fair amount of recoding is depending on how the lineage is stored in the database the system could have a fit over trying to figure out how to display the parents when one of them has been sex changed so they are now the same sex since there is no longer a male and a female parent to display first and second. The second reason I don't support this is because it would remove some of the challenge involved in breeding since sex is the only thing you can't change and something should remain static. You can change color by using a scatter scroll and you can ensure the hatchlings are of a particular element by breeding it in the appropriate nest
I'd only support a sex change scroll if it either was only a [url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?board=sug&id=1169730&p=mb]cosmetic change[/url] (changes the image to the opposite sex, so your male dragon displays a female dragon image, but he is still a male dragon so he still can only breed with females so the breeding pool for him doesn't change) or if it actually changes the sex and then that individual becomes unbreedable.[/quote]
I support the two alternatives (the pose change and sex skewing item)
As for the issue of having a pose changed dragon from alternative one on the AH, that is easily handled by not being able to list them on the AH unless that is reversed (either by a 'revert to origional pose' button or by a treasure scroll to remove the effect)
Even though FR dragons are warm blooded, the sex skewing item can still be used as there is a [url=http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/2905/20130711/mammals-select-sex-offsprings-increase-number-grandchildren-study.htm]theory[/url] that even mammals can influence the sex of their offspring.
DragonSage wrote:
I do not support a sex change scroll that would allow you to change the sex and then be able to breed according to the newly assigned sex (IE You have two males, you change one of them to a female and then you would be able to breed the male to the female). I don't support this for a couple of reasons:
First of all, it would probably involve having to recode a fair amount of the breeding/display system which I think could be better spent adding new features rather than recoding a system that works perfectly fine the way it is. The reason I say it could involve a fair amount of recoding is depending on how the lineage is stored in the database the system could have a fit over trying to figure out how to display the parents when one of them has been sex changed so they are now the same sex since there is no longer a male and a female parent to display first and second. The second reason I don't support this is because it would remove some of the challenge involved in breeding since sex is the only thing you can't change and something should remain static. You can change color by using a scatter scroll and you can ensure the hatchlings are of a particular element by breeding it in the appropriate nest
I'd only support a sex change scroll if it either was only a
cosmetic change (changes the image to the opposite sex, so your male dragon displays a female dragon image, but he is still a male dragon so he still can only breed with females so the breeding pool for him doesn't change) or if it actually changes the sex and then that individual becomes unbreedable.
I support the two alternatives (the pose change and sex skewing item)
As for the issue of having a pose changed dragon from alternative one on the AH, that is easily handled by not being able to list them on the AH unless that is reversed (either by a 'revert to origional pose' button or by a treasure scroll to remove the effect)
Even though FR dragons are warm blooded, the sex skewing item can still be used as there is a
theory that even mammals can influence the sex of their offspring.
I will always only support the pose-change scroll. Leaves breeding mechanics intact while allowing people to have the lgbt dragons they want. Also, the heat/cool down nest is a cool suggestion. Support that one.
I will always only support the pose-change scroll. Leaves breeding mechanics intact while allowing people to have the lgbt dragons they want. Also, the heat/cool down nest is a cool suggestion. Support that one.
