Support.
Big agree on the communication factor brought up as well.
If it wasn't for the close knit friends pinging me via Discord, mind you, I would not be aware of these changes at all.
Leave the uniqueness of genes on different breeds, especially ancients.
Edit: Discussing this with said friends, it feels like there's alot of miscommunication going on between artists here. I've seen the discussion of the skin maps and why auraboas shouldn't have had paisley changed, and I definitely have to agree.
I don't have many dragons on the line for the recent changes that rolled out, but I feel for those who chose these genes for the stylistic choices only to have them changed and possibly needing/wanting to rid the dragon or purchase new genes entirely.
Support.
Big agree on the communication factor brought up as well.
If it wasn't for the close knit friends pinging me via Discord, mind you, I would not be aware of these changes at all.
Leave the uniqueness of genes on different breeds, especially ancients.
Edit: Discussing this with said friends, it feels like there's alot of miscommunication going on between artists here. I've seen the discussion of the skin maps and why auraboas shouldn't have had paisley changed, and I definitely have to agree.
I don't have many dragons on the line for the recent changes that rolled out, but I feel for those who chose these genes for the stylistic choices only to have them changed and possibly needing/wanting to rid the dragon or purchase new genes entirely.
Honestly, the change looks far more like a bug than the original did, I'm baffled by this.
In general, I don't feel like major stylistic changes that are not genuine bugs should be made this far out, especially not without warning, and I say this regardless of whether or not I like any given gene— this isn't like Glowtail, where the bugs were pretty instantly noticed and a major stylistic change was made pretty fast out of the gate in direct response to the community alongside the noticed bugs.
Too, coming on the heels of the Auraboa Paisley changes ostensibly being for consistency's sake (though that, too, has been pointed out to not be the case, as those areas are labeled in a user-facing way to be the MANE area) this is especially baffling. If the Sandsurge gene error thread weren't locked, I would have reported this for being a potential bug in and of itself— it's not like we haven't had gene fixes that were, themselves, bugged.
Basically, I feel like personal preference (whether dev or user) on stylistic changes should never matter more than what already exists on the site unless something is genuinely bugged or broken, especially past a certain point— not even if I personally don't like a gene, not even if I personally like the proposed new version more. All preference-based changes do is hurt the people who already liked and were using the gene and foster distrust with users for future gene releases.
Edited to add that I'm really extra frustrated by this, because I feel like esp. with Banescales and Obe Flair the devs took our meaning and were communicating really well re: what was bugged and how things were going to be fixed! We got some great in-depth explanations of why certain things were bugs, how the devs intended to fix them (esp. re the long-running IriShim issue) etc. I felt like things were going good in the communication and back-and-forth regard!
But at some point in the last week that has all been tossed out the window for some reason, between Auraboa Paisley, Sandsurge Blend, and now two one? I don't even know anymore— Auraboa genes that are on the slate for being "fixed" when they're really just going to be made more like Paisley when the userbase is consistently trying to communicate that we don't want this.
Honestly, the change looks far more like a bug than the original did, I'm baffled by this.
In general, I don't feel like major stylistic changes that are not genuine bugs should be made this far out, especially not without warning, and I say this regardless of whether or not I like any given gene— this isn't like Glowtail, where the bugs were pretty instantly noticed and a major stylistic change was made pretty fast out of the gate in direct response to the community alongside the noticed bugs.
Too, coming on the heels of the Auraboa Paisley changes ostensibly being for consistency's sake (though that, too, has been pointed out to not be the case, as those areas are labeled in a user-facing way to be the MANE area) this is especially baffling. If the Sandsurge gene error thread weren't locked, I would have reported this for being a potential bug in and of itself— it's not like we haven't had gene fixes that were, themselves, bugged.
Basically, I feel like personal preference (whether dev or user) on stylistic changes should never matter more than what already exists on the site unless something is genuinely bugged or broken, especially past a certain point— not even if I personally don't like a gene, not even if I personally like the proposed new version more. All preference-based changes do is hurt the people who already liked and were using the gene and foster distrust with users for future gene releases.
Edited to add that I'm really extra frustrated by this, because I feel like esp. with Banescales and Obe Flair the devs took our meaning and were communicating really well re: what was bugged and how things were going to be fixed! We got some great in-depth explanations of why certain things were bugs, how the devs intended to fix them (esp. re the long-running IriShim issue) etc. I felt like things were going good in the communication and back-and-forth regard!
But at some point in the last week that has all been tossed out the window for some reason, between Auraboa Paisley, Sandsurge Blend, and now two one? I don't even know anymore— Auraboa genes that are on the slate for being "fixed" when they're really just going to be made more like Paisley when the userbase is consistently trying to communicate that we don't want this.
Support. Unless it's a genuine bug/glitch/error, leave it alone.
Support. Unless it's a genuine bug/glitch/error, leave it alone.
Support for the same and additional reasons I gave in the "revert auraboa fern/paisley" thread:
[quote name="Mangorain" date="2024-02-19 11:51:57" ]
Full support.
I stalked the bug reports for a while on the Auraboa release and never saw Paisley pop up as having an error. I thought it was a design choice, since it was complete with lighting and accent colors - and it looked quite lovely "unfixed." The presence of accent colors made it very unique as well, and those colors have been wiped fully from the gene. I actually designed one of my Galore hatches around the pink accents present in Amethyst Paisley - however, Paisley now doesn't work on her at all with that accent absent, and she doesn't look nearly as nice.
(Sorry for the crummy photo, it's the only one I have of her previous design!)
Before:
[img]https://i.ibb.co/B2V1qfq/Screenshot-2024-01-25-150909.png[/img]
After:
[url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/90728171][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/350/907282/90728171_350.png[/img][/url]
As you can see, her design doesn't work very well at all now. I really liked the paisley on her - and now I need to regene her.
[/quote]
Pre-TLDR: Breeds shouldn't be released only to be changed significantly without first warning the userbase these changes will be applied. In the future, staff should either test breeds before releasing, or warn the userbase of these changes.
Breeds should be previewed and tested before being released to the userbase; if this isn't done, a general PSA should be added on the release posts stating that [b]the breeds are in a "beta testing" phase and may change significantly.[/b] This is the second time in the past few days where a breed's gene has been changed in a major way without any forewarning, or knowledge that the gene was even glitched. As others have stated, the Sandsurge head fins were consistent with other breeds' fins, and even the fins on its tail and back. There was no feasible reason that gene should have changed - in fact, to my knowledge, it was never documented as a bog (correct me if I'm wrong please!) [b]Genes should be previewed and tested before release to prevent these mishaps, and the userbase should be made aware of them.[/b]
But if you ask me? [b]These don't seem to be genefixes at all - they seem to be making the genes simply worse.[/b] We can see how the lighting on Auraboa Fern no longer contours to their scales, but appears randomly in improbable places; now, we also see how Sandsurge Blend shows up as inconsistent in both placement and accent coloration (Using the encyclopedia dragon; it no longer displays the deep red accent present on the back and tail fins.)
One of the things I have appreciated about Flight Rising is the staff's transparency and activity in the userbase, but after these two changes, that seems to be going down. [i]Staff, please, at least, give us some notion that you've heard what we're saying.[/i] If you've responded to other, far more minor, changes before, this one should deserve some recognition, too - [b]especially with such a large outcry in the userbase[/b]. There are currently [s]four five[/s] [b]six active threads asking about these changes[/b] - staff, please, provide some transparency on this.
[s] Second Eyepocalypse, anyone? [/s]
Support for the same and additional reasons I gave in the "revert auraboa fern/paisley" thread:
Mangorain wrote on 2024-02-19 11:51:57:
Full support.
I stalked the bug reports for a while on the Auraboa release and never saw Paisley pop up as having an error. I thought it was a design choice, since it was complete with lighting and accent colors - and it looked quite lovely "unfixed." The presence of accent colors made it very unique as well, and those colors have been wiped fully from the gene. I actually designed one of my Galore hatches around the pink accents present in Amethyst Paisley - however, Paisley now doesn't work on her at all with that accent absent, and she doesn't look nearly as nice.
(Sorry for the crummy photo, it's the only one I have of her previous design!)
Before:
After:
As you can see, her design doesn't work very well at all now. I really liked the paisley on her - and now I need to regene her.
Pre-TLDR: Breeds shouldn't be released only to be changed significantly without first warning the userbase these changes will be applied. In the future, staff should either test breeds before releasing, or warn the userbase of these changes.
Breeds should be previewed and tested before being released to the userbase; if this isn't done, a general PSA should be added on the release posts stating that
the breeds are in a "beta testing" phase and may change significantly. This is the second time in the past few days where a breed's gene has been changed in a major way without any forewarning, or knowledge that the gene was even glitched. As others have stated, the Sandsurge head fins were consistent with other breeds' fins, and even the fins on its tail and back. There was no feasible reason that gene should have changed - in fact, to my knowledge, it was never documented as a bog (correct me if I'm wrong please!)
Genes should be previewed and tested before release to prevent these mishaps, and the userbase should be made aware of them.
But if you ask me?
These don't seem to be genefixes at all - they seem to be making the genes simply worse. We can see how the lighting on Auraboa Fern no longer contours to their scales, but appears randomly in improbable places; now, we also see how Sandsurge Blend shows up as inconsistent in both placement and accent coloration (Using the encyclopedia dragon; it no longer displays the deep red accent present on the back and tail fins.)
One of the things I have appreciated about Flight Rising is the staff's transparency and activity in the userbase, but after these two changes, that seems to be going down.
Staff, please, at least, give us some notion that you've heard what we're saying. If you've responded to other, far more minor, changes before, this one should deserve some recognition, too -
especially with such a large outcry in the userbase. There are currently
four five six active threads asking about these changes - staff, please, provide some transparency on this.
Second Eyepocalypse, anyone?
Support. I've already thrown a lot of my thoughts over into the ongoing Paisley thread.
I'll just add here that, as someone who has previously gotten excited for EVERY new breed release (ancient or modern), I really feel like I just can't bother anymore if genes are going to be changed this drastically so long after launch with minimal to no communication. A single comment hidden in an error thread about "adjusting highlights" does not translate to "we're going to completely redraw and change this gene."
How long should we be expected to wait before we engage with the new releases? 6 months is clearly not long enough. Should we wait a full year? Two? I don't want to invest in and love a dragon just to keep having these huge changes rolled out and making my time and effort meaningless.
A 100% treasure gene Aura (breed change, primary, secondary, tert) costs upwards of 550,000 treasure, excluding costs and time associated with buying/hatching the actual dragon. Double the costs if you also obtain and gene a mate, +any costs for accents and skins. Things can snowball rather dramatically from there when you get to users who commission art, lore, or anything else for these dragons that they love.
Then suddenly, MONTHS later, the genes are changed and all that time and money is just.... gone, because now the dragon is ugly and there are no other genes that work with it. Or worse - there ARE other genes that could work with it, but is it worth the risk to invest in changing it?
Support. I've already thrown a lot of my thoughts over into the ongoing Paisley thread.
I'll just add here that, as someone who has previously gotten excited for EVERY new breed release (ancient or modern), I really feel like I just can't bother anymore if genes are going to be changed this drastically so long after launch with minimal to no communication. A single comment hidden in an error thread about "adjusting highlights" does not translate to "we're going to completely redraw and change this gene."
How long should we be expected to wait before we engage with the new releases? 6 months is clearly not long enough. Should we wait a full year? Two? I don't want to invest in and love a dragon just to keep having these huge changes rolled out and making my time and effort meaningless.
A 100% treasure gene Aura (breed change, primary, secondary, tert) costs upwards of 550,000 treasure, excluding costs and time associated with buying/hatching the actual dragon. Double the costs if you also obtain and gene a mate, +any costs for accents and skins. Things can snowball rather dramatically from there when you get to users who commission art, lore, or anything else for these dragons that they love.
Then suddenly, MONTHS later, the genes are changed and all that time and money is just.... gone, because now the dragon is ugly and there are no other genes that work with it. Or worse - there ARE other genes that could work with it, but is it worth the risk to invest in changing it?
[quote name="Senya" date="2024-02-21 10:38:38" ]
Support. I've already thrown a lot of my thoughts over into the ongoing Paisley thread.
I'll just add here that, as someone who has previously gotten excited for EVERY new breed release (ancient or modern), I really feel like I just can't bother anymore if genes are going to be changed this drastically so long after launch with minimal to no communication. A single comment hidden in an error thread about "adjusting highlights" does not translate to "we're going to completely redraw and change this gene."
How long should we be expected to wait before we engage with the new releases? 6 months is clearly not long enough. Should we wait a full year? Two? I don't want to invest in and love a dragon just to keep having these huge changes rolled out and making my time and effort meaningless.
A 100% treasure gene Aura (breed change, primary, secondary, tert) costs upwards of 550,000 treasure, excluding costs and time associated with buying/hatching the actual dragon. Double the costs if you also obtain and gene a mate, +any costs for accents and skins. Things can snowball rather dramatically from there when you get to users who commission art, lore, or anything else for these dragons that they love.
Then suddenly, MONTHS later, the genes are changed and all that time and money is just.... gone, because now the dragon is ugly and there are no other genes that work with it. Or worse - there ARE other genes that could work with it, but is it worth the risk to invest in changing it?
[/quote]
Yeah, this is a great writeup of why I don't like things being changed even if I personally prefer the new version and [i]how[/i] specifically I think it fosters distrust with the site.
I, too, enjoy geneing dragons, but right now I'm just like… I don't feel like I can engage with that part of the site at all because I don't know what else is going to be changed without warning. I don't even want to look at my old scries lest I get too attached to them. It's really disheartening that we haven't even had a "we understand there are concerns" message at this point, so it's just like… I can feel my engagement lessening, and I don't want that because I genuinely do enjoy this site and know the devs have been really responsive before.
Senya wrote on 2024-02-21 10:38:38:
Support. I've already thrown a lot of my thoughts over into the ongoing Paisley thread.
I'll just add here that, as someone who has previously gotten excited for EVERY new breed release (ancient or modern), I really feel like I just can't bother anymore if genes are going to be changed this drastically so long after launch with minimal to no communication. A single comment hidden in an error thread about "adjusting highlights" does not translate to "we're going to completely redraw and change this gene."
How long should we be expected to wait before we engage with the new releases? 6 months is clearly not long enough. Should we wait a full year? Two? I don't want to invest in and love a dragon just to keep having these huge changes rolled out and making my time and effort meaningless.
A 100% treasure gene Aura (breed change, primary, secondary, tert) costs upwards of 550,000 treasure, excluding costs and time associated with buying/hatching the actual dragon. Double the costs if you also obtain and gene a mate, +any costs for accents and skins. Things can snowball rather dramatically from there when you get to users who commission art, lore, or anything else for these dragons that they love.
Then suddenly, MONTHS later, the genes are changed and all that time and money is just.... gone, because now the dragon is ugly and there are no other genes that work with it. Or worse - there ARE other genes that could work with it, but is it worth the risk to invest in changing it?
Yeah, this is a great writeup of why I don't like things being changed even if I personally prefer the new version and
how specifically I think it fosters distrust with the site.
I, too, enjoy geneing dragons, but right now I'm just like… I don't feel like I can engage with that part of the site at all because I don't know what else is going to be changed without warning. I don't even want to look at my old scries lest I get too attached to them. It's really disheartening that we haven't even had a "we understand there are concerns" message at this point, so it's just like… I can feel my engagement lessening, and I don't want that because I genuinely do enjoy this site and know the devs have been really responsive before.
I generally try very, very hard not to let my personal aesthetic distaste for something color my perception of it as a whole, because it's 100% okay that not everything appeals to me, but... This isn't about whether I do or don't like the visual changes themselves.
These aren't broken image files, or missing layers, or completely incorrect colors. These are subjective opinions about "consistency" that are being acted on, long after the genes were released which were initially approved as Correct. If there was intention to fix something from the outset... Why release the gene at all? Why put it in the game for us to scry and purchase and use and fall in love with? Why not hold off until the files are fixed, and then release as a gene update?
I just don't understand the reasoning here. There's a point at which you have to let the perceived inconsistency go, as an artist/creator, and that point is long gone for both of these genes IMO. If they were broken on release, they should never have been added into the game.
If it's not TRULY broken, please don't "fix" it. This feels pretty bad. Not to be dramatic, but breeding/geneing projects are what keep me on this site 5/6 days a week, and this really kinda makes me nervous about what I might lose in... A months' time. Or two months. Or six. Or a year from now.
I generally try very, very hard not to let my personal aesthetic distaste for something color my perception of it as a whole, because it's 100% okay that not everything appeals to me, but... This isn't about whether I do or don't like the visual changes themselves.
These aren't broken image files, or missing layers, or completely incorrect colors. These are subjective opinions about "consistency" that are being acted on, long after the genes were released which were initially approved as Correct. If there was intention to fix something from the outset... Why release the gene at all? Why put it in the game for us to scry and purchase and use and fall in love with? Why not hold off until the files are fixed, and then release as a gene update?
I just don't understand the reasoning here. There's a point at which you have to let the perceived inconsistency go, as an artist/creator, and that point is long gone for both of these genes IMO. If they were broken on release, they should never have been added into the game.
If it's not TRULY broken, please don't "fix" it. This feels pretty bad. Not to be dramatic, but breeding/geneing projects are what keep me on this site 5/6 days a week, and this really kinda makes me nervous about what I might lose in... A months' time. Or two months. Or six. Or a year from now.
Support. Ancient breed releases/genes have felt increasingly sloppy lately.
Support. Ancient breed releases/genes have felt increasingly sloppy lately.
