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Flight Rising Discussion

Discuss everything and anything Flight Rising.
TOPIC | water territory is absurdly tiny
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[url=https://www1.flightrising.com/world-map]"So vast is this sea, that the shorebound observer would see only the faint silhouette of the surrounding lands on the horizon."[/url] so if we can figure out how far away sornieth's horizon is, we can determine the size of the sea being looked across! [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/ann/1242993/1]WotW 9[/url] established the approximate size of sornieth as an astrological body: [quote name="Aequorin" date="2014-11-13 11:25:26" ] [b]The size of Sornieth[/b] is larger than Earth (roughly one and a half times the radius).[/quote] earth's radius is 3,958.8 miles, making sornieth's about 5938.2 miles. to calculate how far away the horizon is, we need to know the observer's height above sea level. since they're observing from the shoreline you might assume zero, but we still need to factor in the height of that observer. let's assume the observer is as tall as possible just to give the sea the best possible chance at being reasonably sized- a 30 meter long dragon standing up on their hind legs. their tail isn't contributing to their height in this case, so we'll say their tail is 1/6th of their body length (a very low estimate but again, i'm being generous), so the dragon's eyes are thusly about 25 meters (= ~82 feet, = ~0.016 miles) above sea level. [img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/038308e0105c3a2e1cb1384949e5c71e/d62e5df843b8ef3a-92/s400x600/d4e0daf0f91cccc2d8f18e0b0ef65f02fc4ce72a.png[/img] now just some quick Triangle Math gives us a distance to the horizon of [b]13.785 miles[/b], which is... absurdly tiny, given the context. for comparison, lake ontario is over 50 miles across at its smallest point. (if we assume the observer is a more average sized dragon with their eyes only about 10m above sea level, the distance drops to below 9 miles! i'm gonna go ahead with the higher measurement, but this one might be more reasonable.) if we assume the sea is roughly as long as it is wide, we have a surface area of about 190 square miles, which about the size of lake tahoe on earth. not a tiny lake by any means, but an absurdly small sea! for comparison, the smallest sea on earth is the 4,380 square mile sea of marmara located in turkey. best of all.. we can conclusively state that the sea of a thousand currents would then have about 5.26 currents per square mile. which honestly sounds pretty stressful to me. not to mention that there's 43,250 clans in water flight. a perfect population count would be Difficult to say the least, but we'll do our best: about 700,000 clans and 19,096,482 non-exalted dragons onsite gives us an average of 27 dragons per clan, 27 dragons times 43,250 clans gives us about 1,167,750 dragons living in water territory. so 227 clans or 6,146 dragons per square mile. 2.8 acres per clan, 0.1 acres per dragon (4356 square feet). the best comparison i can think to draw here is that depending on the quality of pasture, one cow requires about 1-3 acres of land. alternatively, it's about the same population density as milwaukee, wisconsin!(although most dragons are a good bit bigger than humans, so it'd feel a good bit more crowded.) i considered getting into depth here but i got tired :'D if anyone else likes silly math feel free to investigate that angle (or correct anything i got wrong here). for now i leave you with this: water flight is crowded as hell (also, as a note, while it would be extremely funny to extrapolate these numbers to the rest of the map based on territory sizes compared to water, the map is drawn so obviously not to scale that i didn't feel like it was reliable enough to bother with. in my heart sornieth is like the size of rhode island though </3)
"So vast is this sea, that the shorebound observer would see only the faint silhouette of the surrounding lands on the horizon."

so if we can figure out how far away sornieth's horizon is, we can determine the size of the sea being looked across!

WotW 9 established the approximate size of sornieth as an astrological body:
Aequorin wrote on 2014-11-13 11:25:26:
The size of Sornieth is larger than Earth (roughly one and a half times the radius).

earth's radius is 3,958.8 miles, making sornieth's about 5938.2 miles.

to calculate how far away the horizon is, we need to know the observer's height above sea level. since they're observing from the shoreline you might assume zero, but we still need to factor in the height of that observer.

let's assume the observer is as tall as possible just to give the sea the best possible chance at being reasonably sized- a 30 meter long dragon standing up on their hind legs. their tail isn't contributing to their height in this case, so we'll say their tail is 1/6th of their body length (a very low estimate but again, i'm being generous), so the dragon's eyes are thusly about 25 meters (= ~82 feet, = ~0.016 miles) above sea level.

d4e0daf0f91cccc2d8f18e0b0ef65f02fc4ce72a.png

now just some quick Triangle Math gives us a distance to the horizon of 13.785 miles, which is... absurdly tiny, given the context. for comparison, lake ontario is over 50 miles across at its smallest point.
(if we assume the observer is a more average sized dragon with their eyes only about 10m above sea level, the distance drops to below 9 miles! i'm gonna go ahead with the higher measurement, but this one might be more reasonable.)

if we assume the sea is roughly as long as it is wide, we have a surface area of about 190 square miles, which about the size of lake tahoe on earth. not a tiny lake by any means, but an absurdly small sea! for comparison, the smallest sea on earth is the 4,380 square mile sea of marmara located in turkey.

best of all.. we can conclusively state that the sea of a thousand currents would then have about 5.26 currents per square mile. which honestly sounds pretty stressful to me.

not to mention that there's 43,250 clans in water flight. a perfect population count would be Difficult to say the least, but we'll do our best: about 700,000 clans and 19,096,482 non-exalted dragons onsite gives us an average of 27 dragons per clan, 27 dragons times 43,250 clans gives us about 1,167,750 dragons living in water territory.

so 227 clans or 6,146 dragons per square mile. 2.8 acres per clan, 0.1 acres per dragon (4356 square feet). the best comparison i can think to draw here is that depending on the quality of pasture, one cow requires about 1-3 acres of land. alternatively, it's about the same population density as milwaukee, wisconsin!(although most dragons are a good bit bigger than humans, so it'd feel a good bit more crowded.)

i considered getting into depth here but i got tired :'D if anyone else likes silly math feel free to investigate that angle (or correct anything i got wrong here). for now i leave you with this: water flight is crowded as hell

(also, as a note, while it would be extremely funny to extrapolate these numbers to the rest of the map based on territory sizes compared to water, the map is drawn so obviously not to scale that i didn't feel like it was reliable enough to bother with. in my heart sornieth is like the size of rhode island though </3)

I respect the mafs.

Ngl I've also always felt like Sornieth was way too small to accommodate every dragon. I think it's just because the map isn't to scale.
I respect the mafs.

Ngl I've also always felt like Sornieth was way too small to accommodate every dragon. I think it's just because the map isn't to scale.
: +3
: Yes

Discord:
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That's incredibly funny. "So vast is this sea you can see the other side" Yeah?? That's not a very big sea then.

Imagining Sornieth as a full size continent on a planet larger than Earth and having the Water domain be the size of Lake Tahoe is ridiculous. TINY. BARELY THERE. CAN'T EVEN SEE IT ON A CONTINENT SCALE. (You genuinely cannot see Lake Tahoe when zoomed out to view all of North America.)
That's incredibly funny. "So vast is this sea you can see the other side" Yeah?? That's not a very big sea then.

Imagining Sornieth as a full size continent on a planet larger than Earth and having the Water domain be the size of Lake Tahoe is ridiculous. TINY. BARELY THERE. CAN'T EVEN SEE IT ON A CONTINENT SCALE. (You genuinely cannot see Lake Tahoe when zoomed out to view all of North America.)
So that's why Tidelord is missing, he's trying to find more territory for water!
So that's why Tidelord is missing, he's trying to find more territory for water!
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a few counterpoints:
1. it never said it was the horizon directly ACROSS from the dragon. they could be referring to the land to the dragon's left/right (wikipedia says this also counts as part of the horizon.) the land directly across could still be invisible.
2. water territory is 3D. there are many floating settlements above the seabed and many habitable caves below, not to mention how HUMONGOUS water flight architecture is-the spiral keep is pressed into the bottom of one of the deepest parts of the ocean and its tip is still visible from above the trench.
3. water territory includes more than the sea. it includes at least 3 surrounding beaches, the cave network beneath and immediately surrounding it, and, assuming the undertides' and deepsea maren's rejoining with the surface world included access to their territory, the Deep and related areas slightly outside the continent.

i will not dispute that the sea itself is still below average in size, but there's more to it than meets the eye!
a few counterpoints:
1. it never said it was the horizon directly ACROSS from the dragon. they could be referring to the land to the dragon's left/right (wikipedia says this also counts as part of the horizon.) the land directly across could still be invisible.
2. water territory is 3D. there are many floating settlements above the seabed and many habitable caves below, not to mention how HUMONGOUS water flight architecture is-the spiral keep is pressed into the bottom of one of the deepest parts of the ocean and its tip is still visible from above the trench.
3. water territory includes more than the sea. it includes at least 3 surrounding beaches, the cave network beneath and immediately surrounding it, and, assuming the undertides' and deepsea maren's rejoining with the surface world included access to their territory, the Deep and related areas slightly outside the continent.

i will not dispute that the sea itself is still below average in size, but there's more to it than meets the eye!
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@corndog these are all great points! i especially like 3, a thing ive actually used in my lore is (and i cant remember exactly what bit on site alluded to this but i am Reasonably Certain is canon) mention of underwater tunnels connecting to other territories, ntm that it's mentioned that water considers all bodies of water their territory and just struggles to maintain control of areas outside the SoaTC. the silly approach i took above aside it is kind of fun to imagine if water IS geographically a smaller territory, the flight remaining extremely powerful just by leveraging their central location that would be so key to trade and travel between almost every other flight ???? it's neat stuff
@corndog these are all great points! i especially like 3, a thing ive actually used in my lore is (and i cant remember exactly what bit on site alluded to this but i am Reasonably Certain is canon) mention of underwater tunnels connecting to other territories, ntm that it's mentioned that water considers all bodies of water their territory and just struggles to maintain control of areas outside the SoaTC. the silly approach i took above aside it is kind of fun to imagine if water IS geographically a smaller territory, the flight remaining extremely powerful just by leveraging their central location that would be so key to trade and travel between almost every other flight ???? it's neat stuff
What if Sornieth is flat tho

That's one of the things that always bothered me about the world map - EVERYTHING looks tiny. I know that nothing is to scale and trying to show everything in a realistic scale would be impractical and likely impossible. Still weird tho.
What if Sornieth is flat tho

That's one of the things that always bothered me about the world map - EVERYTHING looks tiny. I know that nothing is to scale and trying to show everything in a realistic scale would be impractical and likely impossible. Still weird tho.
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Yeah, the writers are definitely not scientists. XD There's a similarly bananas phrase somewhere about the big tree in Nature flight being visible "from almost any point in the world" (paraphrased). I'd be curious to see the math on that. Like, the tree would have to be wider than the circumference of the planet to be visible from the opposite side, right?
Yeah, the writers are definitely not scientists. XD There's a similarly bananas phrase somewhere about the big tree in Nature flight being visible "from almost any point in the world" (paraphrased). I'd be curious to see the math on that. Like, the tree would have to be wider than the circumference of the planet to be visible from the opposite side, right?
Always imagined the world map to be one of those caricature representations of a real map with the landmarks being drawn big so you can see where exactly they are.
Always imagined the world map to be one of those caricature representations of a real map with the landmarks being drawn big so you can see where exactly they are.
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I just wanna say; [img]https://i.imgur.com/w8slxPS.png[/img] [img]https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/FbLunWUUcAAi5rB.jpg[/img]
I just wanna say;

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He/she/them
FR +3
Information+Wishlist+Art Shop!
Aether adopts!
My colorwheel project!

This is a reminder to be patient with new players in the suggestions forum if they post something commonly suggested! The forum search isn't particularly outstanding or obvious.
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