Suggestions

[quote name="@Anky" date="2024-02-08 15:57:01" ] It's not being fair though. I want to save up for all the KS items. I don't want a 1 random chance in the void. It's not balanced. Far from it. Let me work towards a goal that is reasonable. I don't want to sell the items. I want to complete my familiar collection and work on my dream dragons. Random loot boxes cause enough resentment already. I don't want anymore random loot boxes. Enough with the gambling. People won't be able to access it freely on the market to begin with. They have to work towards it with achievement points. Part of the achievement points is one off rewards. The other is daily, weekly, and monthly goals. Let. People. Have. Reasonable. Goals. [/quote] I think you might have misunderstood- the fair and balanced statements are about the number of items in circulation and the effect on the economy. The original suggestion and your follow ups would not be balanced imo; I think the majority of players would go for imp scrolls if given free rein, and the devs have already made it clear that they don't want to make major waves in the Gen1 Imperial market. A randomized box with an equal chance of pulling Any One KS Item means you'll get a mostly consistent distribution of items, which will keep the value of each item more consistent instead of artificially tanking or jacking up the prices. Anyway before getting into it, my question for you is: Do you want the KS items to still be a status symbol, long-term goal, or a challenge to acquire? If not, that's totally okay! It just changes the discussion here, because my answer is "yes!" and that's why I am pushing for putting limits in place. Like, the problem imo isn't along the lines of, "X item is 100kg, that's prohibitively expensive!" the problem is, "X item is 100kg but only 50 exist so it will be 200kg next year." I want KS items to be more in line with maxing out the lair and HibDen- big expensive long term goals, that are still 100% achievable by anyone who plays.

[quote name="@Seraitsukara" date="2024-02-08 16:25:38" ] 5,000 tokens is fine, maybe a bit much. 1 purchase per account though? Absolutely not. [b]NO.[/b] That is making things needlessly frustrating, especially for players who want to collect all of the KS items. That'll only encourage multi-accounting as well. I don't like a mechanic that makes someone rely on other players either. I want to be able to put the work in myself, and get all the items, not get a shot in the dark chance at some random item, and then have to save up and rely on another player selling what I do want. Hugely agree with Anky above me. Just let people have reasonable goals. There's no need to put in some arbitrary, massive restriction just to make the KS items only slightly more attainable to all players. [/quote] Please reference my above post, sorry I didn't see your reply sooner! Some more specific responses though- it wouldn't encourage multi-accounting any more than the JoxBox mechanic does. Honestly I think this is a more preventative measure because getting all the achievements is actually a massive investment of time and money. Frankly, your average multi-accounter isn't going to play enough to get the required tokens. I also don't see how this forces you to rely on other players, any more than buying things off the AH does. I mean. If you only get items through your own gameplay, more power to you, but this is an online community at the end of the day. There were 1040 imp scrolls originally sent out as KS rewards. There are over 700,000 accounts. Let's say there's 13 KS items in a randomized box (not including the chests) and only 1/4 of the players buy a box. That introduces approximately 13,500 imp scrolls into the game.

[quote name="@MissAri" date="2024-02-08 16:31:44" ] Do you want the KS items to still be a status symbol, long-term goal, or a challenge to acquire? [/quote] I do not consider KS to be status symbols. And them as a long term goal, right now, is unreachable. I WANT to be able to actually save and complete my collection. I am tired of seeing goal posts move dramatically. The achievement shop allows everyone to save. Like. 2.5 million gems for an Imp scroll can not be done by most people. The equivalent by cash is just that. Gems carry a money value. It's not reasonable to ask someone to save 22,000 dollars for an Imp scroll. Period. This game is ten years old. Where is it going to be in 15 years? 20? KS items are going to just disappear from the game. There are people that are going to play the game differently. I want to eventually get my own KS familiars because owning them completes their bestiary entries. They won't stick out anymore. The familiar extra bonding game doesn't unlock the backgrounds. Again. Let people save up to their goals. There are other KS backers in this thread that would like to see the KS items come back. Limits aren't helping. It's just causing more of a problem. The game needs to be stream lined so it can survive in the future. Other browser games are making changes for the better. Change is not bad. Getting a maxed out lair is do-able. It's a good goal. KS items as it stand right now are almost unobtainable. How can you compare it to completing your lair when a seller is hard to come by now. No one really wants to sell because most just want to complete their collection on their account. Every item in the game should be a working goal in the system. Everything. A random gamble isn't needed when achievement points are harder to work towards. 5000 for an imp scroll is fine. Not everyone has 5000 points. I'm barely at 2000 right now. It's going to take me awhile to knock out achievements and even get to 5000 points.

[quote name="MissAri" date="2024-02-08 14:46:57" ] ... As frustrating as one-per-account might be if you don't get what you want, my inclination for a single random pull would be to maintain a fairly even balance rather than like... 99% imp scrolls haha [emoji=coatl tongue size=1] And of course, for every person trying to get an item to use and keep, there's going to be a hundred who are in it to resell. ... [/quote] I mean tbqh I don't care about the imp scrolls, I only want the familiars LMAO. Plus, I dislike paying "Full price" for a box that may give me a duplicate or something I don't even want. I think you'd see more people selling stuff, in that case? Trying to get the funds to purchase the one they actually want. Whereas for choice, folks can buy what they want and chill. edit: Also, I think the 5k price point is a little high, personally, but I'm a casual player who doesn't have the time to minmax pursuits. (and have already spent a good chunk of my achievement points) I personally like the 2k points? Since that comes out to about 1/yr as folks have calculated, IF they have the time/energy to max out their pursuits. But I am also in the "I wouldn't mind if this was account bound" crowd so, it's affected by that I think.

[quote name="@Anky" date="2024-02-08 16:48:20" ] Getting a maxed out lair is do-able. It's a good goal. KS items as it stand right now are almost unobtainable. How can you compare it to completing your lair when a seller is hard to come by now. No one really wants to sell because most just want to complete their collection on their account. Every item in the game should be a working goal in the system. Everything. [/quote] Please refer to my original statement. [quote name="MissAri" date="2024-02-08 16:31:44" ] [i]I want KS items to be more in line with maxing out the lair and HibDen- big expensive long term goals, that are still 100% achievable by anyone who plays.[/i] [/quote] To reiterate, KS items are not like this currently, but I [b]want[/b] them to be. However, I am not interested in the idea of making these items account-locked. I love FR's community, market, and economy. I think players should be able to buy, sell, raffle, gift, trade, and donate KS items if they feel like it. [quote name="@Silverstormwing" date="2024-02-08 17:10:21" ] I mean tbqh I don't care about the imp scrolls, I only want the familiars LMAO. Plus, I dislike paying "Full price" for a box that may give me a duplicate or something I don't even want. I think you'd see more people selling stuff, in that case? Trying to get the funds to purchase the one they actually want. Whereas for choice, folks can buy what they want and chill. edit: Also, I think the 5k price point is a little high, personally, but I'm a casual player who doesn't have the time to minmax pursuits. (and have already spent a good chunk of my achievement points) I personally like the 2k points? Since that comes out to about 1/yr as folks have calculated, IF they have the time/energy to max out their pursuits. But I am also in the "I wouldn't mind if this was account bound" crowd so, it's affected by that I think. [/quote] Oh I'm with you there- I don't care one lick about G1s, I'm always chasing that completed bestiary. But considering the current prices of all the various KS goodies, you could probably get the full set of 4 familiars from trading an imp scroll, along with a good chunk of change. So I can see people really trying to cash in with that mentality! But yeah, my perspective with these suggestions is to make KS items more readily available and get them into circulation while also [LIST] [*] Discouraging multi-accounting [*] Maintaining a degree of value/rarity/challenge [*] Encouraging active gameplay [*] Encouraging player to player interactions [/LIST] --------- I get that I'm biased because I'm a totally psycho completionist, and the most fun I've ever had in FR was probably when I was working on completing my bestiary for the first time in 2015. But like... in the proposed scenarios in this thread, a Skycat is going to be cheaper than a Y1 Sprite. Isn't that kind of crummy? Isn't that kind of lame and un-fun and not special?

Dropping in quickly with a personal opinion that they absolutely should do this.

At the moment the achievements system is very good game design when it comes to minor rewards and promoting exploration of the site/engagement, but from a player standpoint it can feel more like a way to accumulate gems and not much else. I understand that some may feel this undermines the value of a KS item, but keeping those items at their current level of inaccessibility can discourage new players into abandoning the game entirely.

(I say that as someone who did drop the game for a few years because of this - getting a plague sprite has been my reason to save gems since 2015. Every time I've left, it's been due to discouragement over this. Many new players are likely feeling something similar.)

I could even see doing a limited-time method, such as rotating phased-out items through the achievements shop for a limited time. Something like (spitballing this example, don't take details seriously) a week & a staggeringly high price for a skycat would still put some back into circulation. Boosting the number that can be traded for would at least make it feel attainable to new players.

Personal opinion, like I said. The forum text spacing sometimes makes it hard for me to read in bulk, so if this argument has already been made, then please ignore. Ty.

[quote name="@Seraitsukara" date="2024-02-09 15:25:58" ] So...almost 2% of the userbase will be able to get [b]an[/b] imp scroll, and that's if every account played enough to get a KS item. Take out inactive accounts, and casual players who will never earn enough achievements to get as KS item, and that drops much lower. Many players would want more than 1. I'm sure a good handful at least would want to be a G1 only imp lair. I already "need" 2, as 2 of my G1's are canonically imps in my lore. I'd like far more than just 2 G1 imps if the option was available to me. Anyone who wanted a good number of any KS item, like imp scrolls, would be permanently in need of new players selling the one they got. It would still mean that not all players could get all KS items. That's ultimately what the suggestion is going for. Make it possible for all players to get all KS items if they put in the work for them.[/quote] I already factored out inactive accounts and casuals when I did a rough calculation of 1/4 of all players buying a box. Again, I'm still working with the parameters the devs have set, in that they don't want to upset the G1 Imperial market. However, there's only 355 players who currently own at least one G1 imp, so I think upping that to 1-5% of all players (not all active players, ALL players) is pretty decent. The fundamental disagreement between us here is probably that I don't think all players should be able to acquire all 13 KS items. [quote]As for relying on other players, it's an [i]option[/i] for the rest of the game. I don't have to buy things off the auction house. I can earn them myself. But with this 1-per-player thing, that's no longer an option. Players would be forced to rely on others to get all the KS items. [/quote] Option is a pretty strong word, I think you'd be hard pressed to get everything you want in the game without interacting with anyone else. Like, that means no listing or purchasing on the AH, no dom discounts/perks, no Dustcarve Dig, etc.~ :P

[quote name="MissAri" date="2024-02-08 20:53:58" ] ...in the proposed scenarios in this thread, a Skycat is going to be cheaper than a Y1 Sprite. Isn't that kind of crummy? Isn't that kind of lame and un-fun and not special? [/quote] True! I'm hoping that if they bring back Kickstarter items, that they'll also unretire Y1-3 in some form. Via Joxbox, other ways, ect. But, cart before horses maybe? (But I also do really just like the critter art of the kickstarter fams, so, again, bias)

[quote name="@Silverstormwing" date="2024-02-09 18:59:14" ] True! I'm hoping that if they bring back Kickstarter items, that they'll also unretire Y1-3 in some form. Via Joxbox, other ways, ect. But, cart before horses maybe? (But I also do really just like the critter art of the kickstarter fams, so, again, bias) [/quote] Oh 100%- we should absolutely have Y1 items in the JoxBox by now. It's such a slow introduction of items into circulation that the prices probably won't dip that dramatically but more than anything I just want them to level out. Like, a person can save up for anything if it's a set price- even a really high price! But the goalposts keep moving further and further away, which is stupidly disheartening. :x