I found the clarification to be quite helpful. I only skimmed through a bit of the lore at launch, but I could see where uncomfortable parallels could be drawn. I was getting science fiction vibes from the encyclopedia entry (Star Trek: Deep Space nine has a similar overarching premise), but the story needed a second reading. I will be able to enjoy these eagle/snake/alien dragons with a little less guilt.
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b2/17/ff/b217ffb68e1470103683f6212fe6b776.jpg[/img]
I found the clarification to be quite helpful. I only skimmed through a bit of the lore at launch, but I could see where uncomfortable parallels could be drawn. I was getting science fiction vibes from the encyclopedia entry (Star Trek: Deep Space nine has a similar overarching premise), but the story needed a second reading. I will be able to enjoy these eagle/snake/alien dragons with a little less guilt.
[quote name="EclipticTheFox" date="2023-11-22 18:16:09" ]
I think the lore def. needs a rewrite but I am a little concerned by the fact that it is mostly non-indigenous/non-Latinos starting this conversation and giving their input. I don't think it's wrong for those not affected by something to speak up for people who are, however, it begins to feel like you all are speaking over us a little. Next time, please wait for affected groups to speak up first and then spread that message.
I am Mexican-American with indigenous Mexican roots and personally am not bothered by the design and the idea of the lore. Do I think the lore should be reworked to seem less condescending? Yes. However, as someone who struggles to connect with their culture and has faced bias because of immigration and assimilation, I don't think it is inherently bad to talk about it. I just think there should be sensitivity writers.
As for the design, I am really disappointed to see people compare the crest to Lakota headdresses. The crest is clearly based off of the Quetzalcoatl's own crest and I'd hate to see such an important detail removed as I was quite excited to see my own culture represented. Quetzalcoatl is very prominent in Mexico (at least areas I have visited) and so it's neat to see something inspired by that here. However, I feel that people are also confusing this prominence with cultural identity. I have seen people, again, mostly not indigenous or Latino, state that it's insensitive to Mesoamericans to derive inspiration from Quetzalcoatl. I would like to point out though, that Mesoamerica is not modern Latin America, rather a society that existed before colonization, and that indigenous Latin American groups today do not actively worship Quetzalcoatl nor is he considered to be exclusive to those who are Latino. (A small nitpick, I have seen people state that Quetzalcoatl is South American when he is Central American).
I understand how one can see the crest as a headdress but then this brings up another issue. Why do we think that it is specifically inspired from Lakota's war bonnets when headdresses exist within other cultures including Aztec? This is a more of a genuine question than a rhetorical one so for those who were spreading that message, I want to hear you out.
But most importantly, out of this whole situation, why are non-indigenous/Latino people deciding on how this whole thing should be handled? If you are not affected by the design or lore, you don't get to decide on whether or not it is offensive, inoffensive, or possible solutions.
TL;DR: Why are non-indigenous/Latino people starting this conversation, providing solutions, and being listened to? I have yet to see any indigenous person, Latino person, or someone directly affected by the Auraboas lore and design speak out. This is how misinformation is spread and how allies cross the line. I am not angry at those who were involved, but I am disappointed on how the community handled this.
[/quote]
Exactly. This whole 'speaking over' of marginalized peoples has been getting under my skin as well. Lately, it's become a pattern on this website whenever something new is released such as a familiar or new dragon breed.
Non-Indigenous folks have been practically falling all over themselves to dogpile on the Auraboas literally from day one, and I've yet to see any Indigenous voices speak up on the issue. That certainly bothers me, as it's a pattern of behavior I see everywhere, and now it's spread to FR.
It feels more performative than any genuine concern, which is sadly how things are these days: a desire to have the 'moral high ground' over others, using marginalized people as a sort of political and social tool in order to climb some imaginary purity ladder. It disgusts me.
While I have little issue with the change in lore for the article and story, I do feel a need to draw the line on the complaints with the design. There is nothing wrong with it, it does not need any changing, and folks need to do some proper research before jumping down the throats of the design team.
EclipticTheFox wrote on 2023-11-22 18:16:09:
I think the lore def. needs a rewrite but I am a little concerned by the fact that it is mostly non-indigenous/non-Latinos starting this conversation and giving their input. I don't think it's wrong for those not affected by something to speak up for people who are, however, it begins to feel like you all are speaking over us a little. Next time, please wait for affected groups to speak up first and then spread that message.
I am Mexican-American with indigenous Mexican roots and personally am not bothered by the design and the idea of the lore. Do I think the lore should be reworked to seem less condescending? Yes. However, as someone who struggles to connect with their culture and has faced bias because of immigration and assimilation, I don't think it is inherently bad to talk about it. I just think there should be sensitivity writers.
As for the design, I am really disappointed to see people compare the crest to Lakota headdresses. The crest is clearly based off of the Quetzalcoatl's own crest and I'd hate to see such an important detail removed as I was quite excited to see my own culture represented. Quetzalcoatl is very prominent in Mexico (at least areas I have visited) and so it's neat to see something inspired by that here. However, I feel that people are also confusing this prominence with cultural identity. I have seen people, again, mostly not indigenous or Latino, state that it's insensitive to Mesoamericans to derive inspiration from Quetzalcoatl. I would like to point out though, that Mesoamerica is not modern Latin America, rather a society that existed before colonization, and that indigenous Latin American groups today do not actively worship Quetzalcoatl nor is he considered to be exclusive to those who are Latino. (A small nitpick, I have seen people state that Quetzalcoatl is South American when he is Central American).
I understand how one can see the crest as a headdress but then this brings up another issue. Why do we think that it is specifically inspired from Lakota's war bonnets when headdresses exist within other cultures including Aztec? This is a more of a genuine question than a rhetorical one so for those who were spreading that message, I want to hear you out.
But most importantly, out of this whole situation, why are non-indigenous/Latino people deciding on how this whole thing should be handled? If you are not affected by the design or lore, you don't get to decide on whether or not it is offensive, inoffensive, or possible solutions.
TL;DR: Why are non-indigenous/Latino people starting this conversation, providing solutions, and being listened to? I have yet to see any indigenous person, Latino person, or someone directly affected by the Auraboas lore and design speak out. This is how misinformation is spread and how allies cross the line. I am not angry at those who were involved, but I am disappointed on how the community handled this.
Exactly. This whole 'speaking over' of marginalized peoples has been getting under my skin as well. Lately, it's become a pattern on this website whenever something new is released such as a familiar or new dragon breed.
Non-Indigenous folks have been practically falling all over themselves to dogpile on the Auraboas literally from day one, and I've yet to see any Indigenous voices speak up on the issue. That certainly bothers me, as it's a pattern of behavior I see everywhere, and now it's spread to FR.
It feels more performative than any genuine concern, which is sadly how things are these days: a desire to have the 'moral high ground' over others, using marginalized people as a sort of political and social tool in order to climb some imaginary purity ladder. It disgusts me.
While I have little issue with the change in lore for the article and story, I do feel a need to draw the line on the complaints with the design. There is nothing wrong with it, it does not need any changing, and folks need to do some proper research before jumping down the throats of the design team.
^ Yes! I didn't want to use the words "performative activism" out of fear that people will use it as an excuse to brush off genuine bigoted behavior, but that is what this is. It's important to have those with more privilege to speak up for the underprivileged, but speaking up is different from speaking over.
(Shoot, I quoted instead of pinged. I am not used to the forums so I'm sorry about that)
^ Yes! I didn't want to use the words "performative activism" out of fear that people will use it as an excuse to brush off genuine bigoted behavior, but that is what this is. It's important to have those with more privilege to speak up for the underprivileged, but speaking up is different from speaking over.
(Shoot, I quoted instead of pinged. I am not used to the forums so I'm sorry about that)
oookay so Now i realize why there was so much debate over racism...i really only skimmed it over but now that the mods spawned out of nowhere to apology for lore well. makes sense Actually
the thing is though like i'm not even that disappointed about auraboas. i'm just not too fond of aethers so when the new ancient came out yesterday i didn't really respond as strongly as you'd think
oookay so Now i realize why there was so much debate over racism...i really only skimmed it over but now that the mods spawned out of nowhere to apology for lore well. makes sense Actually
the thing is though like i'm not even that disappointed about auraboas. i'm just not too fond of aethers so when the new ancient came out yesterday i didn't really respond as strongly as you'd think
I'm not native so I'm not going to say anything beyond this but it low key bothers me that so many people are pulling things from different cultures and saying 'this is this and that is that' without educating themselves on why they might actually be wrong and why those things are probably actually completely different and shouldn't be compared in the first place.
Cultural appropriation can and is a thing but appreciation is very much the same and when the voices that are drown out say they're cool with the design, maybe it would be better to chill. If a bulk of the people you're defending aren't offended but are more offended that you're speaking over them, that's a problem.
Beyond that I can't say much else. I like the design of the new dragon, I missed the initial problem with lore but some were sounding off on another website how they were disappointed about their culture being erased. I feel really bad about it and I'm sorry it all happened this way.
I'm not native so I'm not going to say anything beyond this but it low key bothers me that so many people are pulling things from different cultures and saying 'this is this and that is that' without educating themselves on why they might actually be wrong and why those things are probably actually completely different and shouldn't be compared in the first place.
Cultural appropriation can and is a thing but appreciation is very much the same and when the voices that are drown out say they're cool with the design, maybe it would be better to chill. If a bulk of the people you're defending aren't offended but are more offended that you're speaking over them, that's a problem.
Beyond that I can't say much else. I like the design of the new dragon, I missed the initial problem with lore but some were sounding off on another website how they were disappointed about their culture being erased. I feel really bad about it and I'm sorry it all happened this way.
|
|
 ||
|
Cheshire
she/her
hobbiest writer
enjoyer of many things
wishlist/info
|
[quote name="TheWildRaven" date="2023-11-22 18:30:06" ]
[quote name="EclipticTheFox" date="2023-11-22 18:16:09" ]
I think the lore def. needs a rewrite but I am a little concerned by the fact that it is mostly non-indigenous/non-Latinos starting this conversation and giving their input. I don't think it's wrong for those not affected by something to speak up for people who are, however, it begins to feel like you all are speaking over us a little. Next time, please wait for affected groups to speak up first and then spread that message.
I am Mexican-American with indigenous Mexican roots and personally am not bothered by the design and the idea of the lore. Do I think the lore should be reworked to seem less condescending? Yes. However, as someone who struggles to connect with their culture and has faced bias because of immigration and assimilation, I don't think it is inherently bad to talk about it. I just think there should be sensitivity writers.
As for the design, I am really disappointed to see people compare the crest to Lakota headdresses. The crest is clearly based off of the Quetzalcoatl's own crest and I'd hate to see such an important detail removed as I was quite excited to see my own culture represented. Quetzalcoatl is very prominent in Mexico (at least areas I have visited) and so it's neat to see something inspired by that here. However, I feel that people are also confusing this prominence with cultural identity. I have seen people, again, mostly not indigenous or Latino, state that it's insensitive to Mesoamericans to derive inspiration from Quetzalcoatl. I would like to point out though, that Mesoamerica is not modern Latin America, rather a society that existed before colonization, and that indigenous Latin American groups today do not actively worship Quetzalcoatl nor is he considered to be exclusive to those who are Latino. (A small nitpick, I have seen people state that Quetzalcoatl is South American when he is Central American).
I understand how one can see the crest as a headdress but then this brings up another issue. Why do we think that it is specifically inspired from Lakota's war bonnets when headdresses exist within other cultures including Aztec? This is a more of a genuine question than a rhetorical one so for those who were spreading that message, I want to hear you out.
But most importantly, out of this whole situation, why are non-indigenous/Latino people deciding on how this whole thing should be handled? If you are not affected by the design or lore, you don't get to decide on whether or not it is offensive, inoffensive, or possible solutions.
TL;DR: Why are non-indigenous/Latino people starting this conversation, providing solutions, and being listened to? I have yet to see any indigenous person, Latino person, or someone directly affected by the Auraboas lore and design speak out. This is how misinformation is spread and how allies cross the line. I am not angry at those who were involved, but I am disappointed on how the community handled this.
[/quote]
Exactly. This whole 'speaking over' of marginalized peoples has been getting under my skin as well. Lately, it's become a pattern on this website whenever something new is released such as a familiar or new dragon breed.
Non-Indigenous folks have been practically falling all over themselves to dogpile on the Auraboas literally from day one, and I've yet to see any Indigenous voices speak up on the issue. That certainly bothers me, as it's a pattern of behavior I see everywhere, and now it's spread to FR.
It feels more performative than any genuine concern, which is sadly how things are these days: a desire to have the 'moral high ground' over others, using marginalized people as a sort of political and social tool in order to climb some imaginary purity ladder. It disgusts me.
While I have little issue with the change in lore for the article and story, I do feel a need to draw the line on the complaints with the design. There is nothing wrong with it, it does not need any changing, and folks need to do some proper research before jumping down the throats of the design team.
[/quote]
Wanted to second both of you in agreement and being bothered by people speaking over those of us whose culture/heritage is (supposedly) being impacted. As for why people keep comparing the crest to warbonnets rather than what they obviously drew their inspiration from, the only reason I can pull from the top of my head is media consumption--primarily in the States and specifically Texas/Arkansas, where most of my experience comes from.
While I have been out of school for quite a while now and do not know how the Texas or Arkansas curriculum looks today, my history classes in the public system were almost solely focused on a plethora of disparate Indigenous nations--with a few brief mentions to the Trail of Tears. Depictions in these history books were... Let's just say outrageously outdated and horrifically racist, with a special focus on our headdresses that was wildly misconstrued. Unsurprisingly my classmates and, of course, the media (namely Hollywood) took that information and ran with it as far and fast as they could.
They deemed it as yet another 'pretty thing' rather than ever considering there may be some actual meaning behind it. Toss this in with the fact it's deemed a popular costume piece for celebrations in October and that it was further aggrandized by Pocahontas at the time (please do not even get me started on that tangent--), all of those pieces intermingling seem to have brought it to the forefront of peoples minds.
Not to mention that academia in general--at least in the two states I mentioned!--do not take the time nor care to look at other cultures that people deem tangentially related to ours.
Of course that is all speculation on my part based on what I've experienced. It could very well be something quite simple or far more complex than I could ever hope to imagine.
TheWildRaven wrote on 2023-11-22 18:30:06:
EclipticTheFox wrote on 2023-11-22 18:16:09:
I think the lore def. needs a rewrite but I am a little concerned by the fact that it is mostly non-indigenous/non-Latinos starting this conversation and giving their input. I don't think it's wrong for those not affected by something to speak up for people who are, however, it begins to feel like you all are speaking over us a little. Next time, please wait for affected groups to speak up first and then spread that message.
I am Mexican-American with indigenous Mexican roots and personally am not bothered by the design and the idea of the lore. Do I think the lore should be reworked to seem less condescending? Yes. However, as someone who struggles to connect with their culture and has faced bias because of immigration and assimilation, I don't think it is inherently bad to talk about it. I just think there should be sensitivity writers.
As for the design, I am really disappointed to see people compare the crest to Lakota headdresses. The crest is clearly based off of the Quetzalcoatl's own crest and I'd hate to see such an important detail removed as I was quite excited to see my own culture represented. Quetzalcoatl is very prominent in Mexico (at least areas I have visited) and so it's neat to see something inspired by that here. However, I feel that people are also confusing this prominence with cultural identity. I have seen people, again, mostly not indigenous or Latino, state that it's insensitive to Mesoamericans to derive inspiration from Quetzalcoatl. I would like to point out though, that Mesoamerica is not modern Latin America, rather a society that existed before colonization, and that indigenous Latin American groups today do not actively worship Quetzalcoatl nor is he considered to be exclusive to those who are Latino. (A small nitpick, I have seen people state that Quetzalcoatl is South American when he is Central American).
I understand how one can see the crest as a headdress but then this brings up another issue. Why do we think that it is specifically inspired from Lakota's war bonnets when headdresses exist within other cultures including Aztec? This is a more of a genuine question than a rhetorical one so for those who were spreading that message, I want to hear you out.
But most importantly, out of this whole situation, why are non-indigenous/Latino people deciding on how this whole thing should be handled? If you are not affected by the design or lore, you don't get to decide on whether or not it is offensive, inoffensive, or possible solutions.
TL;DR: Why are non-indigenous/Latino people starting this conversation, providing solutions, and being listened to? I have yet to see any indigenous person, Latino person, or someone directly affected by the Auraboas lore and design speak out. This is how misinformation is spread and how allies cross the line. I am not angry at those who were involved, but I am disappointed on how the community handled this.
Exactly. This whole 'speaking over' of marginalized peoples has been getting under my skin as well. Lately, it's become a pattern on this website whenever something new is released such as a familiar or new dragon breed.
Non-Indigenous folks have been practically falling all over themselves to dogpile on the Auraboas literally from day one, and I've yet to see any Indigenous voices speak up on the issue. That certainly bothers me, as it's a pattern of behavior I see everywhere, and now it's spread to FR.
It feels more performative than any genuine concern, which is sadly how things are these days: a desire to have the 'moral high ground' over others, using marginalized people as a sort of political and social tool in order to climb some imaginary purity ladder. It disgusts me.
While I have little issue with the change in lore for the article and story, I do feel a need to draw the line on the complaints with the design. There is nothing wrong with it, it does not need any changing, and folks need to do some proper research before jumping down the throats of the design team.
Wanted to second both of you in agreement and being bothered by people speaking over those of us whose culture/heritage is (supposedly) being impacted. As for why people keep comparing the crest to warbonnets rather than what they obviously drew their inspiration from, the only reason I can pull from the top of my head is media consumption--primarily in the States and specifically Texas/Arkansas, where most of my experience comes from.
While I have been out of school for quite a while now and do not know how the Texas or Arkansas curriculum looks today, my history classes in the public system were almost solely focused on a plethora of disparate Indigenous nations--with a few brief mentions to the Trail of Tears. Depictions in these history books were... Let's just say outrageously outdated and horrifically racist, with a special focus on our headdresses that was wildly misconstrued. Unsurprisingly my classmates and, of course, the media (namely Hollywood) took that information and ran with it as far and fast as they could.
They deemed it as yet another 'pretty thing' rather than ever considering there may be some actual meaning behind it. Toss this in with the fact it's deemed a popular costume piece for celebrations in October and that it was further aggrandized by Pocahontas at the time (please do not even get me started on that tangent--), all of those pieces intermingling seem to have brought it to the forefront of peoples minds.
Not to mention that academia in general--at least in the two states I mentioned!--do not take the time nor care to look at other cultures that people deem tangentially related to ours.
Of course that is all speculation on my part based on what I've experienced. It could very well be something quite simple or far more complex than I could ever hope to imagine.
[quote name="TheWildRaven" date="2023-11-22 18:30:06" ]
[SNIPPED - SEE [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/3290741/2#post_55549658]ORIGINAL COMMENT[/url] FOR FULL LENGTH]
It feels more performative than any genuine concern, which is sadly how things are these days: a desire to have the 'moral high ground' over others, using marginalized people as a sort of political and social tool in order to climb some imaginary purity ladder. It disgusts me.
[/quote]
I feel this way, as well, about the situation. ^ (I am not indigenous, and I have also noticed only other non-indigenous people speaking up about this.) A hasty response seems to have been made on the site's behalf out of fear of it growing worse as opposed to waiting and hearing input from those with a right to speak.
TheWildRaven wrote on 2023-11-22 18:30:06:
[SNIPPED - SEE
ORIGINAL COMMENT FOR FULL LENGTH]
It feels more performative than any genuine concern, which is sadly how things are these days: a desire to have the 'moral high ground' over others, using marginalized people as a sort of political and social tool in order to climb some imaginary purity ladder. It disgusts me.
I feel this way, as well, about the situation. ^ (I am not indigenous, and I have also noticed only other non-indigenous people speaking up about this.) A hasty response seems to have been made on the site's behalf out of fear of it growing worse as opposed to waiting and hearing input from those with a right to speak.
i am not indigenous and know it's not up to me to decide when something is or isn't okay regarding any indigenous cultures, so i won't really touch that, but i do want to say i agree with/support EclipticTheFox and TheWildRaven and others in their situation on this site. i think it's best for those of us who aren't indigenous to not be the ones starting the discussions, deciding whether something is appreciation or appropriation, or deciding what is or isn't offensive to... groups we don't belong to. we can't Get It in a way that enables us to reliably judge when something is or isn't okay. it's our job as outsiders to amplify and support, but as they said, speaking over them isn't helpful at all and ends up being harmful and annoying and drowns out the voices of those who are actually affected.
i didn't read any of the lore entries until after the apology was issued as i'm not a huge lore person for this site, and i wasn't keeping up with who was bringing issues to attention, so i don't know who was saying what. but i hope the staff takes into consideration what people are claiming that things are offensive and prioritizes the opinions of indigenous people and people with connections to the cultures their lore and designs may draw from or bear similarities to.
i am not indigenous and know it's not up to me to decide when something is or isn't okay regarding any indigenous cultures, so i won't really touch that, but i do want to say i agree with/support EclipticTheFox and TheWildRaven and others in their situation on this site. i think it's best for those of us who aren't indigenous to not be the ones starting the discussions, deciding whether something is appreciation or appropriation, or deciding what is or isn't offensive to... groups we don't belong to. we can't Get It in a way that enables us to reliably judge when something is or isn't okay. it's our job as outsiders to amplify and support, but as they said, speaking over them isn't helpful at all and ends up being harmful and annoying and drowns out the voices of those who are actually affected.
i didn't read any of the lore entries until after the apology was issued as i'm not a huge lore person for this site, and i wasn't keeping up with who was bringing issues to attention, so i don't know who was saying what. but i hope the staff takes into consideration what people are claiming that things are offensive and prioritizes the opinions of indigenous people and people with connections to the cultures their lore and designs may draw from or bear similarities to.
re: EclipticTheFox
Apologies for bringing up the art; to be honest, I didn't agree that it seemed to be copying Lakota headdresses and assumed as you did that it was more tied to Quetzalcoatl. I mentioned that the devs might be waiting to address that because, frankly, I worried that in 3-4 hours there would be several posts from the original people who'd brought that up saying that this apology was inadequate because it didn't address the art, and it might spiral from there. I probably shouldn't have done so. I also definitely assumed that some of the people bringing their concerns up were Native, though the majority seemed to not be.
[quote]I understand how one can see the crest as a headdress but then this brings up another issue. Why do we think that it is specifically inspired from Lakota's war bonnets when headdresses exist within other cultures including Aztec? This is a more of a genuine question than a rhetorical one so for those who were spreading that message, I want to hear you out.[/quote]
Since you put this as a genuine question, I'd like to venture a reply, though I wasn't one who thought the art was a problem. I think it's really just because Plains-style headdresses are the most easily-recognized forms of cultural appropriation in the U.S., which is where most of the playerbase is. Because people had already been uncomfortable with the lore, the passing resemblance seemed to be intentional. This has actually happened before in other contexts, where Afro-Caribbean or Afro-Latine artists have been told off for cultural appropriation over headdresses (usually by non-Native would-be allies) when the feathered regalia they're wearing isn't Plains-inspired or anything like it, it's from their own cultures. In this case, I think it was something similar. Quetzalcoatl-inspired feather-crest is less well known, so the assumption was to the more common, and more offensive, depiction.
(I'm also confused by people considering depictions or references to Quetzalcoatl offensive here on this site, since... I've always assumed that's also where Coatls' name comes from? Since they're, well, feathered serpents.)
re: EclipticTheFox
Apologies for bringing up the art; to be honest, I didn't agree that it seemed to be copying Lakota headdresses and assumed as you did that it was more tied to Quetzalcoatl. I mentioned that the devs might be waiting to address that because, frankly, I worried that in 3-4 hours there would be several posts from the original people who'd brought that up saying that this apology was inadequate because it didn't address the art, and it might spiral from there. I probably shouldn't have done so. I also definitely assumed that some of the people bringing their concerns up were Native, though the majority seemed to not be.
Quote:
I understand how one can see the crest as a headdress but then this brings up another issue. Why do we think that it is specifically inspired from Lakota's war bonnets when headdresses exist within other cultures including Aztec? This is a more of a genuine question than a rhetorical one so for those who were spreading that message, I want to hear you out.
Since you put this as a genuine question, I'd like to venture a reply, though I wasn't one who thought the art was a problem. I think it's really just because Plains-style headdresses are the most easily-recognized forms of cultural appropriation in the U.S., which is where most of the playerbase is. Because people had already been uncomfortable with the lore, the passing resemblance seemed to be intentional. This has actually happened before in other contexts, where Afro-Caribbean or Afro-Latine artists have been told off for cultural appropriation over headdresses (usually by non-Native would-be allies) when the feathered regalia they're wearing isn't Plains-inspired or anything like it, it's from their own cultures. In this case, I think it was something similar. Quetzalcoatl-inspired feather-crest is less well known, so the assumption was to the more common, and more offensive, depiction.
(I'm also confused by people considering depictions or references to Quetzalcoatl offensive here on this site, since... I've always assumed that's also where Coatls' name comes from? Since they're, well, feathered serpents.)
They're so cute and their lore fascinates me. I'm really excited for them and for more development of this story going forward.
They're so cute and their lore fascinates me. I'm really excited for them and for more development of this story going forward.
|
Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.
-Revelation 4: 8b
|
|
