I'd support some additional incentives to exalting, like that exalt shop idea floating around the forum, but no outright raising the exalt payout (or fairgrounds cap). The economy is nicely balanced and adding more treasure can destroy it very fast, as many players have lots of time to use (and abuse) the system which cannot always be accounted for as the devs have already underestimated the willingness of players to spend endless hours in coli to get more profit (remember bearpocalypse). I used to be one of those players at first, and though I'm very casual now and only earn about 100-200kt per week (and yes, it's annoying to wait a whole month to gene a dragon with cheapest genes, but hey, I play, like, a few minutes per day, no one else to blame for that, lol), I know how easy it is to take advantage of the system and get immense profits simply because you have time to spare. I think my record was about 13 mil t in a single week?
As for the rates of exalting... I sell lots of adult fodder. Usually I just wait until I like the LAH price and list the ones I've accumulated so far for 5-10t lower than LAH. Not once had I any fodder listing returned to me the next day (as I list for 1 day). Quite often I'm still listing and the first ones have already been bought. I don't think there is any issue with getting rid of excess dragons, it's just that there are tons of dragons being hatched every day so naturally lots are available on AH at any point. And having a choice is always nice, so it's not a problem to begin with. I'd prefer to see some additions to the AH search instead, like excluding genes/colors, sorting into bred and unbred, etc., as it's indeed kinda hard to navigate when you're not looking for something specific and only want to browse the pretties.
I'd support some additional incentives to exalting, like that exalt shop idea floating around the forum, but no outright raising the exalt payout (or fairgrounds cap). The economy is nicely balanced and adding more treasure can destroy it very fast, as many players have lots of time to use (and abuse) the system which cannot always be accounted for as the devs have already underestimated the willingness of players to spend endless hours in coli to get more profit (remember bearpocalypse). I used to be one of those players at first, and though I'm very casual now and only earn about 100-200kt per week (and yes, it's annoying to wait a whole month to gene a dragon with cheapest genes, but hey, I play, like, a few minutes per day, no one else to blame for that, lol), I know how easy it is to take advantage of the system and get immense profits simply because you have time to spare. I think my record was about 13 mil t in a single week?
As for the rates of exalting... I sell lots of adult fodder. Usually I just wait until I like the LAH price and list the ones I've accumulated so far for 5-10t lower than LAH. Not once had I any fodder listing returned to me the next day (as I list for 1 day). Quite often I'm still listing and the first ones have already been bought. I don't think there is any issue with getting rid of excess dragons, it's just that there are tons of dragons being hatched every day so naturally lots are available on AH at any point. And having a choice is always nice, so it's not a problem to begin with. I'd prefer to see some additions to the AH search instead, like excluding genes/colors, sorting into bred and unbred, etc., as it's indeed kinda hard to navigate when you're not looking for something specific and only want to browse the pretties.
As a longtime casual player, I feel the economy of FR is actually quite good. I do think it would be great to encourage exalting/dominance battles more with special exalt currency. I also like the idea of storefronts and site sanctioned nest rentals.
That being said, I wanted to share some of the things I do as a casual player to earn treasure with my dragons only. As background I check my account once a day and spend about 10-15 minutes doing some maintenance. I have never bought gems and I don't do any item/dragon flipping.
Bond with familiars on my permas (about 50 or so)-This gives treasure and chests
Breed my permas for fodder to sell- Because I breed them I make 9kt on each sale or 20kt for special pairs
Doing the above has allowed me to afford lair expansions (I buy when my flight has Dominance for the discount) and unlock all of the gem slots in my hib den. The majority of my apparel collection has come from chests. I also still have enough to buy at least one of every skin each festival.
Granted this isn't a FAST way to make money, but it is low effort. I would also suggest using whatever hibden slots you have to store fodder for when the fodder floor price raises. It doesn't happen often, but you can make a lot of treasure when it does.
I also wanted to point out that there are others things that can be done to add to this like selling baldwin items or food/items collected while gathering.
As a longtime casual player, I feel the economy of FR is actually quite good. I do think it would be great to encourage exalting/dominance battles more with special exalt currency. I also like the idea of storefronts and site sanctioned nest rentals.
That being said, I wanted to share some of the things I do as a casual player to earn treasure with my dragons only. As background I check my account once a day and spend about 10-15 minutes doing some maintenance. I have never bought gems and I don't do any item/dragon flipping.
Bond with familiars on my permas (about 50 or so)-This gives treasure and chests
Breed my permas for fodder to sell- Because I breed them I make 9kt on each sale or 20kt for special pairs
Doing the above has allowed me to afford lair expansions (I buy when my flight has Dominance for the discount) and unlock all of the gem slots in my hib den. The majority of my apparel collection has come from chests. I also still have enough to buy at least one of every skin each festival.
Granted this isn't a FAST way to make money, but it is low effort. I would also suggest using whatever hibden slots you have to store fodder for when the fodder floor price raises. It doesn't happen often, but you can make a lot of treasure when it does.
I also wanted to point out that there are others things that can be done to add to this like selling baldwin items or food/items collected while gathering.
[quote name="Nightwind" date="2023-10-05 16:51:18" ]
OP dates back to when there was a basic assumption that all dragons were more valuable than their exalt value because dragons were still fairly rare and attractive color combos were still selling in the 40-50kt range. Hatcheries made money despite having to purchase genes. The expectation that a dragon would be kept was much higher because not enough time had gone by to build both a playerbase and a breeding population of dragons.
It's a very different economy now and OP has not been around to see it change. That 80-100k dragons OP thinks are too many represents 4-5 days worth of dragons hatched. Also, that means we're exalting 22-25k dragons A DAY so I'm pretty sure the players as a whole are motivated to exalt dragons.
[/quote]
OP was regularly posting in 2017 and before. People have been complaining (rightly, in my opinion) that exalting is not [i]fun[/i] at least since I started in 2015 - and even by that time it was an adjustment for me to understand that no dragon is inherently valuable, because that was true [i]even then[/i].
Of course, I didn't run a hatchery back then because it was too much work. I didn't buy from hatcheries, either, though.
But regardless of where you're from, it's evident that the treasure making hatchery hatchlings more "valuable" has to come from somewhere. It has always come from somewhere. I think it's not a new thing that treasure has primarily been coming from exalting. In fact, it's probably a fairly new thing that it's coming from somewhere else. The fact remains that exaltation is a limitless treasure source and simply hatching a nest is not an incredible amount of work. Hatching a nice nest might be a little bit, but that's not what exaltation is based on. That's what selling dragons to another player would be based on. The player market has changed, but exalting never has.
Nightwind wrote on 2023-10-05 16:51:18:
OP dates back to when there was a basic assumption that all dragons were more valuable than their exalt value because dragons were still fairly rare and attractive color combos were still selling in the 40-50kt range. Hatcheries made money despite having to purchase genes. The expectation that a dragon would be kept was much higher because not enough time had gone by to build both a playerbase and a breeding population of dragons.
It's a very different economy now and OP has not been around to see it change. That 80-100k dragons OP thinks are too many represents 4-5 days worth of dragons hatched. Also, that means we're exalting 22-25k dragons A DAY so I'm pretty sure the players as a whole are motivated to exalt dragons.
OP was regularly posting in 2017 and before. People have been complaining (rightly, in my opinion) that exalting is not
fun at least since I started in 2015 - and even by that time it was an adjustment for me to understand that no dragon is inherently valuable, because that was true
even then.
Of course, I didn't run a hatchery back then because it was too much work. I didn't buy from hatcheries, either, though.
But regardless of where you're from, it's evident that the treasure making hatchery hatchlings more "valuable" has to come from somewhere. It has always come from somewhere. I think it's not a new thing that treasure has primarily been coming from exalting. In fact, it's probably a fairly new thing that it's coming from somewhere else. The fact remains that exaltation is a limitless treasure source and simply hatching a nest is not an incredible amount of work. Hatching a nice nest might be a little bit, but that's not what exaltation is based on. That's what selling dragons to another player would be based on. The player market has changed, but exalting never has.
/Almedha
OP is a June 27, 2013 player.
I joined nearly a year later and the "why are my dragons not selling for 40-50k anymore" threads were already a thing then.
The belief that hatchery dragons are worth more than fodder prices comes from many places. First and foremost it's because people generally spend time/money to acquire pairs and add scrolls. Sunk cost of buying dragons, adding scrolls, feeding and storing until sold all adds up. This makes hatchery owners feel that they deserve a return on their investment and fodder prices take too long. They spent money to make these dragons so they ought to make more money than any random pair taken off the AH.
Lair space and food take time/money to acquire. Advertising, relisting and market research to find what people are looking for also encourage people to think their dragons should sell for more because they required more effort than random AH pairs.
The idea that there is a difference between a fodder dragon and a "hatchery" dragon beyond if a buyer wants it for exalting or not.
Sellers also would like higher prices in general for their stuff.
/Almedha
OP is a June 27, 2013 player.
I joined nearly a year later and the "why are my dragons not selling for 40-50k anymore" threads were already a thing then.
The belief that hatchery dragons are worth more than fodder prices comes from many places. First and foremost it's because people generally spend time/money to acquire pairs and add scrolls. Sunk cost of buying dragons, adding scrolls, feeding and storing until sold all adds up. This makes hatchery owners feel that they deserve a return on their investment and fodder prices take too long. They spent money to make these dragons so they ought to make more money than any random pair taken off the AH.
Lair space and food take time/money to acquire. Advertising, relisting and market research to find what people are looking for also encourage people to think their dragons should sell for more because they required more effort than random AH pairs.
The idea that there is a difference between a fodder dragon and a "hatchery" dragon beyond if a buyer wants it for exalting or not.
Sellers also would like higher prices in general for their stuff.
I want to live in Theory. Everything works there.
Have you checked the
Gem MP for Gene and Breed scrolls before buying an AH listing from me ending in
5g?
[quote name="Nightwind" date="2023-10-05 20:15:11" ]
/Almedha
OP is a June 27, 2013 player.
I joined nearly a year later and the "why are my dragons not selling for 40-50k anymore" threads were already a thing then.
The belief that hatchery dragons are worth more than fodder prices comes from many places. First and foremost it's because people generally spend time/money to acquire pairs and add scrolls. Sunk cost of buying dragons, adding scrolls, feeding and storing until sold all adds up. This makes hatchery owners feel that they deserve a return on their investment and fodder prices take too long. They spent money to make these dragons so they ought to make more money than any random pair taken off the AH.
Lair space and food take time/money to acquire. Advertising, relisting and market research to find what people are looking for also encourage people to think their dragons should sell for more because they required more effort than random AH pairs.
The idea that there is a difference between a fodder dragon and a "hatchery" dragon beyond if a buyer wants it for exalting or not.
Sellers also would like higher prices in general for their stuff.
[/quote]
It doesn't matter when OP joined - it matters when they stopped. In the scheme of the dragon economy, it's not that much time.
Because that misunderstanding has always been a problem with hatchery owners as far as I can tell. Threads like this are usually created by hatchery owners (at least the ones that I've seen) probably for the exact reasons you're talking about. I don't know what this has to do with changing the cost of exalting when hatcheries are explicitly about treasure changing hands between players and exalting is straight [i]treasure generation[/i]. That misunderstanding has less to do with when you started, and more a misunderstanding of where treasure comes from. (EDIT: Incidentally, it's a similar idea with the hibden. Most of the hibden slots do not destroy treasure, but they're seen as expensive because of the amount you could spend [i]paying another player[/i].)
I wouldn't even be on this thread (because I don't particularly about a hatchery feature beyond that some people might like it) except for the suggestion to increase an already virtually limitless ability to generate treasure.
Nightwind wrote on 2023-10-05 20:15:11:
/Almedha
OP is a June 27, 2013 player.
I joined nearly a year later and the "why are my dragons not selling for 40-50k anymore" threads were already a thing then.
The belief that hatchery dragons are worth more than fodder prices comes from many places. First and foremost it's because people generally spend time/money to acquire pairs and add scrolls. Sunk cost of buying dragons, adding scrolls, feeding and storing until sold all adds up. This makes hatchery owners feel that they deserve a return on their investment and fodder prices take too long. They spent money to make these dragons so they ought to make more money than any random pair taken off the AH.
Lair space and food take time/money to acquire. Advertising, relisting and market research to find what people are looking for also encourage people to think their dragons should sell for more because they required more effort than random AH pairs.
The idea that there is a difference between a fodder dragon and a "hatchery" dragon beyond if a buyer wants it for exalting or not.
Sellers also would like higher prices in general for their stuff.
It doesn't matter when OP joined - it matters when they stopped. In the scheme of the dragon economy, it's not that much time.
Because that misunderstanding has always been a problem with hatchery owners as far as I can tell. Threads like this are usually created by hatchery owners (at least the ones that I've seen) probably for the exact reasons you're talking about. I don't know what this has to do with changing the cost of exalting when hatcheries are explicitly about treasure changing hands between players and exalting is straight
treasure generation. That misunderstanding has less to do with when you started, and more a misunderstanding of where treasure comes from. (EDIT: Incidentally, it's a similar idea with the hibden. Most of the hibden slots do not destroy treasure, but they're seen as expensive because of the amount you could spend
paying another player.)
I wouldn't even be on this thread (because I don't particularly about a hatchery feature beyond that some people might like it) except for the suggestion to increase an already virtually limitless ability to generate treasure.
I'm sorry I don't have the time to fully read this thread and other inputs but upon first reading the original post, I really like the idea of a storefront/site integrated hatchery!
I have a feeling some folks would still run hatchery threads to make them pretty / more customizable, but I really like the idea of a site-integrated way to sell dragons outside of the AH. I think it'd make for a nicer browsing experience in general and would be way less time-demanding than it is to run a hatchery thread. I go through phases of inactivity on mine due to real life stuff and always wish I could just "insta-list" new hatches in a way that would be clear they're a) from a hatchery and b) maybe ping the folks who are on my general pinglist. The time taken to set this sort of function up, on an individual basis, would be 100% worth it for easier maintenance w/ listing new hatches later on. Cool idea :)
I'm sorry I don't have the time to fully read this thread and other inputs but upon first reading the original post, I really like the idea of a storefront/site integrated hatchery!
I have a feeling some folks would still run hatchery threads to make them pretty / more customizable, but I really like the idea of a site-integrated way to sell dragons outside of the AH. I think it'd make for a nicer browsing experience in general and would be way less time-demanding than it is to run a hatchery thread. I go through phases of inactivity on mine due to real life stuff and always wish I could just "insta-list" new hatches in a way that would be clear they're a) from a hatchery and b) maybe ping the folks who are on my general pinglist. The time taken to set this sort of function up, on an individual basis, would be 100% worth it for easier maintenance w/ listing new hatches later on. Cool idea :)
Dear Developers,
I am grateful for this thread's existence so I can share my idea that would help me and others make their lives easier instead of wasting so much time bonding.
Like how there is a "feed" button that allows players to feed their dragons all at once, It would be pleasant if there is a bond button as well. Every day I would bond with my familiars one by one in pure boredom.
I am mainly bonding with my familiars every day to grind chests and with chest is my main income of gems. If you do consider a bond button, It would make me joyful and free of the knowledge that I maybe wasting hours of my life bonding with digital familiars. Again, thank you.
Peace in blocks!
Sincerely, Endtroid187
Dear Developers,
I am grateful for this thread's existence so I can share my idea that would help me and others make their lives easier instead of wasting so much time bonding.
Like how there is a "feed" button that allows players to feed their dragons all at once, It would be pleasant if there is a bond button as well. Every day I would bond with my familiars one by one in pure boredom.
I am mainly bonding with my familiars every day to grind chests and with chest is my main income of gems. If you do consider a bond button, It would make me joyful and free of the knowledge that I maybe wasting hours of my life bonding with digital familiars. Again, thank you.
Peace in blocks!
Sincerely, Endtroid187
[quote name="Endtroid187" date="2023-10-26 12:29:12" ]
Dear Developers,
I am grateful for this thread's existence so I can share my idea that would help me and others make their lives easier instead of wasting so much time bonding.
Like how there is a "feed" button that allows players to feed their dragons all at once, It would be pleasant if there is a bond button as well. Every day I would bond with my familiars one by one in pure boredom.
I am mainly bonding with my familiars every day to grind chests and with chest is my main income of gems. If you do consider a bond button, It would make me joyful and free of the knowledge that I maybe wasting hours of my life bonding with digital familiars. Again, thank you.
Peace in blocks!
Sincerely, Endtroid187
[/quote]
This suggestion is not happening
Endtroid187 wrote on 2023-10-26 12:29:12:
Dear Developers,
I am grateful for this thread's existence so I can share my idea that would help me and others make their lives easier instead of wasting so much time bonding.
Like how there is a "feed" button that allows players to feed their dragons all at once, It would be pleasant if there is a bond button as well. Every day I would bond with my familiars one by one in pure boredom.
I am mainly bonding with my familiars every day to grind chests and with chest is my main income of gems. If you do consider a bond button, It would make me joyful and free of the knowledge that I maybe wasting hours of my life bonding with digital familiars. Again, thank you.
Peace in blocks!
Sincerely, Endtroid187
This suggestion is not happening
