Everyone else has said what I would’ve, but I wanted to add something regarding it/its.
I saw someone describe using it/its as “using it the same way you use it for a mountain, or the sea, or love.” All those things are “it”s, but that doesn’t mean it’s dehumanizing or demeaning or anything.
Same concept applies to languages that are more heavily gendered than English (i.e. don’t have a neutral pronoun). There’s a great poem on tumblr somewhere. It’s like “Use ‘she’ for me like you use it for the sea. Use ‘he’ for me like you use it for a forest”, and so on. It’s really cool and really opened my eyes to the true flexibility of pronouns :) I’ll have to see if I can find it again, it’s way better written than what I wrote lol.
Everyone else has said what I would’ve, but I wanted to add something regarding it/its.
I saw someone describe using it/its as “using it the same way you use it for a mountain, or the sea, or love.” All those things are “it”s, but that doesn’t mean it’s dehumanizing or demeaning or anything.
Same concept applies to languages that are more heavily gendered than English (i.e. don’t have a neutral pronoun). There’s a great poem on tumblr somewhere. It’s like “Use ‘she’ for me like you use it for the sea. Use ‘he’ for me like you use it for a forest”, and so on. It’s really cool and really opened my eyes to the true flexibility of pronouns :) I’ll have to see if I can find it again, it’s way better written than what I wrote lol.
[quote name="DeathbyPixelz" date="2024-02-04 11:43:50" ]
Everyone else has said what I would’ve, but I wanted to add something regarding it/its.
I saw someone describe using it/its as “using it the same way you use it for a mountain, or the sea, or love.” All those things are “it”s, but that doesn’t mean it’s dehumanizing or demeaning or anything.
Same concept applies to languages that are more heavily gendered than English (i.e. don’t have a neutral pronoun). There’s a great poem on tumblr somewhere. It’s like “Use ‘she’ for me like you use it for the sea. Use ‘he’ for me like you use it for a forest”, and so on. It’s really cool and really opened my eyes to the true flexibility of pronouns :) I’ll have to see if I can find it again, it’s way better written than what I wrote lol.
[/quote]
thank you for this
i think it's funny when people say they don't like using it/its pronouns for people because it's "dehumanizing". how is it dehumanizing when those are the pronouns that that person [i]asked[/i] to be called? it is far ruder to purposefully not use someone's preferred pronouns (only exception being if those pronouns are slurs/appropriative, i've seen people using w/ndigo pronouns and like. no im not saying or typing that word)
there's also a whole other conversation to be had here about how lot of us who use it/its pronouns actually do not feel fully human, or we have been dehumanized in other ways by society and are choosing to reclaim that. that's a long and nuanced conversation that i do not have the spoons for right now...i'll just say please just be kind and respectful of what people want to be called as long as it is not harmful. neopronouns are valid.
DeathbyPixelz wrote on 2024-02-04 11:43:50:
Everyone else has said what I would’ve, but I wanted to add something regarding it/its.
I saw someone describe using it/its as “using it the same way you use it for a mountain, or the sea, or love.” All those things are “it”s, but that doesn’t mean it’s dehumanizing or demeaning or anything.
Same concept applies to languages that are more heavily gendered than English (i.e. don’t have a neutral pronoun). There’s a great poem on tumblr somewhere. It’s like “Use ‘she’ for me like you use it for the sea. Use ‘he’ for me like you use it for a forest”, and so on. It’s really cool and really opened my eyes to the true flexibility of pronouns :) I’ll have to see if I can find it again, it’s way better written than what I wrote lol.
thank you for this
i think it's funny when people say they don't like using it/its pronouns for people because it's "dehumanizing". how is it dehumanizing when those are the pronouns that that person
asked to be called? it is far ruder to purposefully not use someone's preferred pronouns (only exception being if those pronouns are slurs/appropriative, i've seen people using w/ndigo pronouns and like. no im not saying or typing that word)
there's also a whole other conversation to be had here about how lot of us who use it/its pronouns actually do not feel fully human, or we have been dehumanized in other ways by society and are choosing to reclaim that. that's a long and nuanced conversation that i do not have the spoons for right now...i'll just say please just be kind and respectful of what people want to be called as long as it is not harmful. neopronouns are valid.
[quote name="DeathbyPixelz" date="2024-02-04 11:43:50" ]
Everyone else has said what I would’ve, but I wanted to add something regarding it/its.
I saw someone describe using it/its as “using it the same way you use it for a mountain, or the sea, or love.” All those things are “it”s, but that doesn’t mean it’s dehumanizing or demeaning or anything.
Same concept applies to languages that are more heavily gendered than English (i.e. don’t have a neutral pronoun). There’s a great poem on tumblr somewhere. It’s like “Use ‘she’ for me like you use it for the sea. Use ‘he’ for me like you use it for a forest”, and so on. It’s really cool and really opened my eyes to the true flexibility of pronouns :) I’ll have to see if I can find it again, it’s way better written than what I wrote lol.
[/quote]
I’d love to read that if you can find it. Thank you.
DeathbyPixelz wrote on 2024-02-04 11:43:50:
Everyone else has said what I would’ve, but I wanted to add something regarding it/its.
I saw someone describe using it/its as “using it the same way you use it for a mountain, or the sea, or love.” All those things are “it”s, but that doesn’t mean it’s dehumanizing or demeaning or anything.
Same concept applies to languages that are more heavily gendered than English (i.e. don’t have a neutral pronoun). There’s a great poem on tumblr somewhere. It’s like “Use ‘she’ for me like you use it for the sea. Use ‘he’ for me like you use it for a forest”, and so on. It’s really cool and really opened my eyes to the true flexibility of pronouns :) I’ll have to see if I can find it again, it’s way better written than what I wrote lol.
I’d love to read that if you can find it. Thank you.
You can have any pronouns you want! I've got He/They/Nya but I also use whatever I feel like sometimes! Live your life, call yourself whatever! Long live!!!
You can have any pronouns you want! I've got He/They/Nya but I also use whatever I feel like sometimes! Live your life, call yourself whatever! Long live!!!
just because this is turning into a discussion of pronouns in general i guess i want to throw out that multiple sets of pronouns can be used as a transition into another identity so you can get used to the idea of an alternate way of being talked to before just throwing yourself to the wolves. i used he/they for a brief moment before just going whatever and commiting to the singular they. i also technically use no pronouns but that's kind of difficult for people to wrap their heads around despite calling people by their name in conversation is super natural and common so idk.
also since we live in a world where people are very instant that all boats are women i don't see why people using a pronoun that they don't "resemble" is any more absurd than gendering a goddamn boat.
just because this is turning into a discussion of pronouns in general i guess i want to throw out that multiple sets of pronouns can be used as a transition into another identity so you can get used to the idea of an alternate way of being talked to before just throwing yourself to the wolves. i used he/they for a brief moment before just going whatever and commiting to the singular they. i also technically use no pronouns but that's kind of difficult for people to wrap their heads around despite calling people by their name in conversation is super natural and common so idk.
also since we live in a world where people are very instant that all boats are women i don't see why people using a pronoun that they don't "resemble" is any more absurd than gendering a goddamn boat.
on the general pronoun discussion train, third-person pronouns are interesting to me because it's a form of self-identification that relies on other people using those terms for you. for some people it's just a gender indicator, for other's it's a whole lot more, but either way it's someone else gendering you or not
i mention this because i come at it from a japanese perspective, where gender self-identification largely happens through the first person instead. age, rank, and sometimes personality and geography are also conveyed through first-person pronouns; the pronoun i use with my family denotes casual, youthful masculinity, while i use an overall neutral pronoun with teachers. it's more fluid and doesn't have the same assumption of "he = boys, she = girls, they = secret third thing" that's often expressed in english.
so basically,
[quote name="TransDisaster" date="2024-02-03 19:22:19" ]
pronouns ≠ gender
[/quote]
but your mileage may vary depending on the languages you know. my spiel might mean nothing if you speak a language with grammatical gender
on the general pronoun discussion train, third-person pronouns are interesting to me because it's a form of self-identification that relies on other people using those terms for you. for some people it's just a gender indicator, for other's it's a whole lot more, but either way it's someone else gendering you or not
i mention this because i come at it from a japanese perspective, where gender self-identification largely happens through the first person instead. age, rank, and sometimes personality and geography are also conveyed through first-person pronouns; the pronoun i use with my family denotes casual, youthful masculinity, while i use an overall neutral pronoun with teachers. it's more fluid and doesn't have the same assumption of "he = boys, she = girls, they = secret third thing" that's often expressed in english.
so basically,
TransDisaster wrote on 2024-02-03 19:22:19:
pronouns ≠ gender
but your mileage may vary depending on the languages you know. my spiel might mean nothing if you speak a language with grammatical gender
|
|
__________________________________________
|
[quote name="whalesbone" date="2024-02-04 15:21:36" ]
on the general pronoun discussion train, third-person pronouns are interesting to me because it's a form of self-identification that relies on other people using those terms for you. for some people it's just a gender indicator, for other's it's a whole lot more, but either way it's someone else gendering you or not
i mention this because i come at it from a japanese perspective, where gender self-identification largely happens through the first person instead. age, rank, and sometimes personality and geography are also conveyed through first-person pronouns; the pronoun i use with my family denotes casual, youthful masculinity, while i use an overall neutral pronoun with teachers. it's more fluid and doesn't have the same assumption of "he = boys, she = girls, they = secret third thing" that's often expressed in english.
so basically,
[quote name="TransDisaster" date="2024-02-03 19:22:19" ]
pronouns ≠ gender
[/quote]
but your mileage may vary depending on the languages you know. my spiel might mean nothing if you speak a language with grammatical gender
[/quote]
i honestly [i]wish[/i] that we had first-person pronouns that indicate gender expression in english rather than relying on the third-person pronouns. much less room for misgendering.
whalesbone wrote on 2024-02-04 15:21:36:
on the general pronoun discussion train, third-person pronouns are interesting to me because it's a form of self-identification that relies on other people using those terms for you. for some people it's just a gender indicator, for other's it's a whole lot more, but either way it's someone else gendering you or not
i mention this because i come at it from a japanese perspective, where gender self-identification largely happens through the first person instead. age, rank, and sometimes personality and geography are also conveyed through first-person pronouns; the pronoun i use with my family denotes casual, youthful masculinity, while i use an overall neutral pronoun with teachers. it's more fluid and doesn't have the same assumption of "he = boys, she = girls, they = secret third thing" that's often expressed in english.
so basically,
TransDisaster wrote on 2024-02-03 19:22:19:
pronouns ≠ gender
but your mileage may vary depending on the languages you know. my spiel might mean nothing if you speak a language with grammatical gender
i honestly
wish that we had first-person pronouns that indicate gender expression in english rather than relying on the third-person pronouns. much less room for misgendering.
[quote name="@Aquafilia" date="2024-02-04 12:02:25" ]
[quote name="DeathbyPixelz" date="2024-02-04 11:43:50" ]
Everyone else has said what I would’ve, but I wanted to add something regarding it/its.
I saw someone describe using it/its as “using it the same way you use it for a mountain, or the sea, or love.” All those things are “it”s, but that doesn’t mean it’s dehumanizing or demeaning or anything.
Same concept applies to languages that are more heavily gendered than English (i.e. don’t have a neutral pronoun). There’s a great poem on tumblr somewhere. It’s like “Use ‘she’ for me like you use it for the sea. Use ‘he’ for me like you use it for a forest”, and so on. It’s really cool and really opened my eyes to the true flexibility of pronouns :) I’ll have to see if I can find it again, it’s way better written than what I wrote lol.
[/quote]
I’d love to read that if you can find it. Thank you.
[/quote]
[url=https://www.tumblr.com/samwisegamgeeee/727214165386772480/i-dont-speak-french-but-i-speak-spanish-and-im]Found the post :)[/url]
I don't remember where I saw the post about it/its, unfortunately, but I feel the poem gets the same point across.
DeathbyPixelz wrote on 2024-02-04 11:43:50:
Everyone else has said what I would’ve, but I wanted to add something regarding it/its.
I saw someone describe using it/its as “using it the same way you use it for a mountain, or the sea, or love.” All those things are “it”s, but that doesn’t mean it’s dehumanizing or demeaning or anything.
Same concept applies to languages that are more heavily gendered than English (i.e. don’t have a neutral pronoun). There’s a great poem on tumblr somewhere. It’s like “Use ‘she’ for me like you use it for the sea. Use ‘he’ for me like you use it for a forest”, and so on. It’s really cool and really opened my eyes to the true flexibility of pronouns :) I’ll have to see if I can find it again, it’s way better written than what I wrote lol.
I’d love to read that if you can find it. Thank you.
Found the post :)
I don't remember where I saw the post about it/its, unfortunately, but I feel the poem gets the same point across.
I mean, I'm female(as in AFAB and not transitioning) but my pronouns are he/they/she and any neos. Like just do whatever, my gender is not my problem.
I've been studying English and its history from a linguistic perspective, and it's pretty interesting how pronouns have changed over the centuries. In the olden days(like pre-medieval) English had cases and gendered nouns, and our pronouns have held onto that more than the rest of the language.
Old English masculine, feminine and neuter pronoun sets would be:
Masc: he(long vowel, like "hey")/him/his
Fem: heo(or hie)/hire(or heore)/hire(or heore)
Neuter: hit/him(or heom)/his
It all used to be very similar from (grammatical)gender to gender. What I'm trying to say is, it's all made up so do what you want with it!
I mean, I'm female(as in AFAB and not transitioning) but my pronouns are he/they/she and any neos. Like just do whatever, my gender is not my problem.
I've been studying English and its history from a linguistic perspective, and it's pretty interesting how pronouns have changed over the centuries. In the olden days(like pre-medieval) English had cases and gendered nouns, and our pronouns have held onto that more than the rest of the language.
Old English masculine, feminine and neuter pronoun sets would be:
Masc: he(long vowel, like "hey")/him/his
Fem: heo(or hie)/hire(or heore)/hire(or heore)
Neuter: hit/him(or heom)/his
It all used to be very similar from (grammatical)gender to gender. What I'm trying to say is, it's all made up so do what you want with it!
any pronoun users rise up
any pronoun users rise up
