I remember reading the Poppy book series growing up, and I have a lot of fond memories of it. The main protagonist is a mouse named Poppy who loves exploring the forest around her.
General Discussion
Discuss your favorites: TV shows, music, games and hobbies.
TOPIC | [HUB] Xenofiction
I remember reading the Poppy book series growing up, and I have a lot of fond memories of it. The main protagonist is a mouse named Poppy who loves exploring the forest around her.
[quote name="@Requacy" date="2020-11-28 13:18:29" ]
Could a lion ever understand he was being hunted for sport, to be turned into a rug? Sure, cats sometimes hunt for the heck of it, but could they ever understand the idea of trophies? [/quote]
Eh, no the best example. I doubt the lion would understand it, but several other animal do similar thing. Assassin beetles wear invert corpses as camouflage. Bearded vultures cover themselves in bone marrow to attract mates. Shrikes hang their prey on thorns, not just as food storage, but also to attract mates, which is possibly the closest example to trophies we have.
But yeah, okay, humans doing that is a lot dumber. Especially since, to most other humans, this is doing the opposite of attracting mates, at least nowadays.
Myrmecomorphy but with humans is a fun idea to think about. I'll remeber that.
The thing about humans being anti-magic is actually something I've read of before. I don't know where I got it from, but the concept stuck with me. It's just good.
@Requacy wrote on 2020-11-28 13:18:29:
Could a lion ever understand he was being hunted for sport, to be turned into a rug? Sure, cats sometimes hunt for the heck of it, but could they ever understand the idea of trophies?
Eh, no the best example. I doubt the lion would understand it, but several other animal do similar thing. Assassin beetles wear invert corpses as camouflage. Bearded vultures cover themselves in bone marrow to attract mates. Shrikes hang their prey on thorns, not just as food storage, but also to attract mates, which is possibly the closest example to trophies we have.
But yeah, okay, humans doing that is a lot dumber. Especially since, to most other humans, this is doing the opposite of attracting mates, at least nowadays.
Myrmecomorphy but with humans is a fun idea to think about. I'll remeber that.
The thing about humans being anti-magic is actually something I've read of before. I don't know where I got it from, but the concept stuck with me. It's just good.
[quote name="@Xionahri" date="2020-11-28 13:51:28" ]
[quote name="@/Requacy" date="2020-11-28 13:18:29" ]
Could a lion ever understand he was being hunted for sport, to be turned into a rug? Sure, cats sometimes hunt for the heck of it, but could they ever understand the idea of trophies? [/quote]
Eh, no the best example. I doubt the lion would understand it, but several other animal do similar thing. Assassin beetles wear invert corpses as camouflage. Bearded vultures cover themselves in bone marrow to attract mates. Shrikes hang their prey on thorns, not just as food storage, but also to attract mates, which is possibly the closest example to trophies we have.
But yeah, okay, humans doing that is a lot dumber. Especially since, to most other humans, this is doing the opposite of attracting mates, at least nowadays.
Myrmecomorphy but with humans is a fun idea to think about. I'll remeber that.
The thing about humans being anti-magic is actually something I've read of before. I don't know where I got it from, but the concept stuck with me. It's just good.
[/quote][font=American Gothic][size=4]
I agree. I should've specified it better, my apologies. I meant it more in the example of felines. There are a solid amount of creatures that use corpses/prey as camouflage or mate attraction. Does make me wonder, though, a human killing a lion, a predator, to own its pelt. Perhaps it [i]originates[/i] from said mate-attraction, or proving social dominance, but it has become something far different now.
Appears in the modern day it revolts more potential mates than attracting them, ahah.
Humans are compared to insects in so many speculative fiction works, but I would like if they compared humans to [i]actual[/i] insects, such as ants and myrmecomorphy.
Oh really? Please tell me if you ever remember what the story was. That such a brilliant concept, it really stands out.
@Xionahri wrote on 2020-11-28 13:51:28:
@/Requacy wrote on 2020-11-28 13:18:29:
Could a lion ever understand he was being hunted for sport, to be turned into a rug? Sure, cats sometimes hunt for the heck of it, but could they ever understand the idea of trophies?
Eh, no the best example. I doubt the lion would understand it, but several other animal do similar thing. Assassin beetles wear invert corpses as camouflage. Bearded vultures cover themselves in bone marrow to attract mates. Shrikes hang their prey on thorns, not just as food storage, but also to attract mates, which is possibly the closest example to trophies we have.
But yeah, okay, humans doing that is a lot dumber. Especially since, to most other humans, this is doing the opposite of attracting mates, at least nowadays.
Myrmecomorphy but with humans is a fun idea to think about. I'll remeber that.
The thing about humans being anti-magic is actually something I've read of before. I don't know where I got it from, but the concept stuck with me. It's just good.
I agree. I should've specified it better, my apologies. I meant it more in the example of felines. There are a solid amount of creatures that use corpses/prey as camouflage or mate attraction. Does make me wonder, though, a human killing a lion, a predator, to own its pelt. Perhaps it originates from said mate-attraction, or proving social dominance, but it has become something far different now.
Appears in the modern day it revolts more potential mates than attracting them, ahah.
Humans are compared to insects in so many speculative fiction works, but I would like if they compared humans to actual insects, such as ants and myrmecomorphy.
Oh really? Please tell me if you ever remember what the story was. That such a brilliant concept, it really stands out.
Call me Requacy (Pinging Allowed!)(Note to self: Make art for signature)
I'd only recommend trying the first three Age of Fire books, tbh, with the caveat that the dragons grow increasingly humanlike from book two onwards. Remaining vague to avoid spoilers, but Auron/AuRon is pretty much the only dragon to feel somewhat alien throughout the series, and even he's not immune to being humanised. There's also a weird Humans Are Superior vibe from book 4 onwards, though even the first book has a weird moment when a dwarf character remarks that humans will surpass all the other sapient races, despite the fact the dwarves have fantastical trains/lifts/etc. while humans seem to be at basically the generic western medieval fantasy level of technology. Also (major spoilers), iirc the one human that seems to be technologically proficient was tutored by dwarves, and humanity in general only gains advantage beyond its generic medieval fantasy level thanks to a human-dragon alliance, so it's not like humanity's Specialness was earned.
To answer @/Requacy's question (not sure if you wanna be pinged), I prefer humans to be... just there. Incomprehensible and strange to the non-human POV characters, sure, but I prefer to avoid Humans Are Cthulhu since it implies Humans Are Superior which is a major pet peeve of mine. I'd even take the non-humans going RAWR RAWR, WE'RE BETTER THAN HOO-MANS over that, since even though that's a very human trait and would bug me, it's less annoying than a series ostensibly about non-humans turning into a series about How Cool And Amazing Humans Are.
To answer @/Requacy's question (not sure if you wanna be pinged), I prefer humans to be... just there. Incomprehensible and strange to the non-human POV characters, sure, but I prefer to avoid Humans Are Cthulhu since it implies Humans Are Superior which is a major pet peeve of mine. I'd even take the non-humans going RAWR RAWR, WE'RE BETTER THAN HOO-MANS over that, since even though that's a very human trait and would bug me, it's less annoying than a series ostensibly about non-humans turning into a series about How Cool And Amazing Humans Are.
I'd only recommend trying the first three Age of Fire books, tbh, with the caveat that the dragons grow increasingly humanlike from book two onwards. Remaining vague to avoid spoilers, but Auron/AuRon is pretty much the only dragon to feel somewhat alien throughout the series, and even he's not immune to being humanised. There's also a weird Humans Are Superior vibe from book 4 onwards, though even the first book has a weird moment when a dwarf character remarks that humans will surpass all the other sapient races, despite the fact the dwarves have fantastical trains/lifts/etc. while humans seem to be at basically the generic western medieval fantasy level of technology. Also (major spoilers), iirc the one human that seems to be technologically proficient was tutored by dwarves, and humanity in general only gains advantage beyond its generic medieval fantasy level thanks to a human-dragon alliance, so it's not like humanity's Specialness was earned.
To answer @/Requacy's question (not sure if you wanna be pinged), I prefer humans to be... just there. Incomprehensible and strange to the non-human POV characters, sure, but I prefer to avoid Humans Are Cthulhu since it implies Humans Are Superior which is a major pet peeve of mine. I'd even take the non-humans going RAWR RAWR, WE'RE BETTER THAN HOO-MANS over that, since even though that's a very human trait and would bug me, it's less annoying than a series ostensibly about non-humans turning into a series about How Cool And Amazing Humans Are.
To answer @/Requacy's question (not sure if you wanna be pinged), I prefer humans to be... just there. Incomprehensible and strange to the non-human POV characters, sure, but I prefer to avoid Humans Are Cthulhu since it implies Humans Are Superior which is a major pet peeve of mine. I'd even take the non-humans going RAWR RAWR, WE'RE BETTER THAN HOO-MANS over that, since even though that's a very human trait and would bug me, it's less annoying than a series ostensibly about non-humans turning into a series about How Cool And Amazing Humans Are.
@Seadramon
(Don't worry, I never mind being pinged!)
Agreed. I don't like Humans Are Superior the trope, so sorry if I implied that. I really like humans as incomprehensible and strange to non-human POV characters. For example, using something like monsters/aliens/predators/etc.... What if Cthulhu is weaker or slower or smaller, but there are millions of them? They reproduce quicker and are good at hunting in packs for generations. And they spread.
But I also like it when we are really strange and incomprehensible, but everyone else treats us as the weird neighbor species. We make no sense but hey they are cool at parties.
Ants. We are incomprehensible ants.
(Don't worry, I never mind being pinged!)
Agreed. I don't like Humans Are Superior the trope, so sorry if I implied that. I really like humans as incomprehensible and strange to non-human POV characters. For example, using something like monsters/aliens/predators/etc.... What if Cthulhu is weaker or slower or smaller, but there are millions of them? They reproduce quicker and are good at hunting in packs for generations. And they spread.
But I also like it when we are really strange and incomprehensible, but everyone else treats us as the weird neighbor species. We make no sense but hey they are cool at parties.
Ants. We are incomprehensible ants.
@Seadramon
(Don't worry, I never mind being pinged!)
Agreed. I don't like Humans Are Superior the trope, so sorry if I implied that. I really like humans as incomprehensible and strange to non-human POV characters. For example, using something like monsters/aliens/predators/etc.... What if Cthulhu is weaker or slower or smaller, but there are millions of them? They reproduce quicker and are good at hunting in packs for generations. And they spread.
But I also like it when we are really strange and incomprehensible, but everyone else treats us as the weird neighbor species. We make no sense but hey they are cool at parties.
Ants. We are incomprehensible ants.
(Don't worry, I never mind being pinged!)
Agreed. I don't like Humans Are Superior the trope, so sorry if I implied that. I really like humans as incomprehensible and strange to non-human POV characters. For example, using something like monsters/aliens/predators/etc.... What if Cthulhu is weaker or slower or smaller, but there are millions of them? They reproduce quicker and are good at hunting in packs for generations. And they spread.
But I also like it when we are really strange and incomprehensible, but everyone else treats us as the weird neighbor species. We make no sense but hey they are cool at parties.
Ants. We are incomprehensible ants.
Call me Requacy (Pinging Allowed!)(Note to self: Make art for signature)
@Requacy
Being able to kill lions was likely seen as attractive in the past, at least among the ancient cultures of egypt, middle east, greece and rome.
And there's proof of that, at least in greco-roman mythology. The first task of Herakles was slaying the Nemaean lion, and afterwaards he wore its pelt. Since mythological heroes were basically idealized versions of people to some degree, this might've been very well seen as an attractive thing.
Of course, you also have to consider, back then, animals like lions posed actual treats. Nowadays, with our advanced weaponary, no so much.
Humans with direct insect comparisions is certainly something I'd like to see. But you know what needs to be more of a thing too? Fictional inverts being like real inverts.
You know I love inverts and they get too bad of a rep. Possibly in part why many people don't quite understand how they work. Even honey bees, which have been domesticated for a long, long time. And I swear, if I see another screaming, swarming, hyperaggressive parasitic spider in fiction ever again...
And you know what? I'm trying my luck with that book right now. https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthatbook/comments/k2xi1a/fantasy_humans_being_physiologically_antimagic/
Being able to kill lions was likely seen as attractive in the past, at least among the ancient cultures of egypt, middle east, greece and rome.
And there's proof of that, at least in greco-roman mythology. The first task of Herakles was slaying the Nemaean lion, and afterwaards he wore its pelt. Since mythological heroes were basically idealized versions of people to some degree, this might've been very well seen as an attractive thing.
Of course, you also have to consider, back then, animals like lions posed actual treats. Nowadays, with our advanced weaponary, no so much.
Humans with direct insect comparisions is certainly something I'd like to see. But you know what needs to be more of a thing too? Fictional inverts being like real inverts.
You know I love inverts and they get too bad of a rep. Possibly in part why many people don't quite understand how they work. Even honey bees, which have been domesticated for a long, long time. And I swear, if I see another screaming, swarming, hyperaggressive parasitic spider in fiction ever again...
And you know what? I'm trying my luck with that book right now. https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthatbook/comments/k2xi1a/fantasy_humans_being_physiologically_antimagic/
@Requacy
Being able to kill lions was likely seen as attractive in the past, at least among the ancient cultures of egypt, middle east, greece and rome.
And there's proof of that, at least in greco-roman mythology. The first task of Herakles was slaying the Nemaean lion, and afterwaards he wore its pelt. Since mythological heroes were basically idealized versions of people to some degree, this might've been very well seen as an attractive thing.
Of course, you also have to consider, back then, animals like lions posed actual treats. Nowadays, with our advanced weaponary, no so much.
Humans with direct insect comparisions is certainly something I'd like to see. But you know what needs to be more of a thing too? Fictional inverts being like real inverts.
You know I love inverts and they get too bad of a rep. Possibly in part why many people don't quite understand how they work. Even honey bees, which have been domesticated for a long, long time. And I swear, if I see another screaming, swarming, hyperaggressive parasitic spider in fiction ever again...
And you know what? I'm trying my luck with that book right now. https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthatbook/comments/k2xi1a/fantasy_humans_being_physiologically_antimagic/
Being able to kill lions was likely seen as attractive in the past, at least among the ancient cultures of egypt, middle east, greece and rome.
And there's proof of that, at least in greco-roman mythology. The first task of Herakles was slaying the Nemaean lion, and afterwaards he wore its pelt. Since mythological heroes were basically idealized versions of people to some degree, this might've been very well seen as an attractive thing.
Of course, you also have to consider, back then, animals like lions posed actual treats. Nowadays, with our advanced weaponary, no so much.
Humans with direct insect comparisions is certainly something I'd like to see. But you know what needs to be more of a thing too? Fictional inverts being like real inverts.
You know I love inverts and they get too bad of a rep. Possibly in part why many people don't quite understand how they work. Even honey bees, which have been domesticated for a long, long time. And I swear, if I see another screaming, swarming, hyperaggressive parasitic spider in fiction ever again...
And you know what? I'm trying my luck with that book right now. https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthatbook/comments/k2xi1a/fantasy_humans_being_physiologically_antimagic/
@Xionahri
Absolutely. The Romans were very into killing lions/large animals. In fact, if I rsememrb correctly, they might have caused a localized decline of elephants. Gladiator fights are good examples of animal bloodsports alongside, well, human bloodsport. The Venatio fights were good examples too, be they hunters or other animals. Your example is great as well.
Of corpse, it was a different time. Death-by-lion-mauling is far less common now. There are also now alternatives to kill-all-predators.
Whenever something compares humans to insects, I always wonder what type of insect. There are far too many to give that generalization. I love invertebrates. Many dragons/monsters I design are inspired by invertebrates. Far too much they are seen as creepy pure evil creatures. Especially myriapods, arachnids, and wasps. Wasps, for example, can recognize faces! Parasites are also wonderful creatures (the sheer biodiversity), and I wish they were acknowledged as simply being a part of nature rather than Evil Video Game Monster.
Ooh, that looks very interesting. Thank you for showing me!
Absolutely. The Romans were very into killing lions/large animals. In fact, if I rsememrb correctly, they might have caused a localized decline of elephants. Gladiator fights are good examples of animal bloodsports alongside, well, human bloodsport. The Venatio fights were good examples too, be they hunters or other animals. Your example is great as well.
Of corpse, it was a different time. Death-by-lion-mauling is far less common now. There are also now alternatives to kill-all-predators.
Whenever something compares humans to insects, I always wonder what type of insect. There are far too many to give that generalization. I love invertebrates. Many dragons/monsters I design are inspired by invertebrates. Far too much they are seen as creepy pure evil creatures. Especially myriapods, arachnids, and wasps. Wasps, for example, can recognize faces! Parasites are also wonderful creatures (the sheer biodiversity), and I wish they were acknowledged as simply being a part of nature rather than Evil Video Game Monster.
Ooh, that looks very interesting. Thank you for showing me!
@Xionahri
Absolutely. The Romans were very into killing lions/large animals. In fact, if I rsememrb correctly, they might have caused a localized decline of elephants. Gladiator fights are good examples of animal bloodsports alongside, well, human bloodsport. The Venatio fights were good examples too, be they hunters or other animals. Your example is great as well.
Of corpse, it was a different time. Death-by-lion-mauling is far less common now. There are also now alternatives to kill-all-predators.
Whenever something compares humans to insects, I always wonder what type of insect. There are far too many to give that generalization. I love invertebrates. Many dragons/monsters I design are inspired by invertebrates. Far too much they are seen as creepy pure evil creatures. Especially myriapods, arachnids, and wasps. Wasps, for example, can recognize faces! Parasites are also wonderful creatures (the sheer biodiversity), and I wish they were acknowledged as simply being a part of nature rather than Evil Video Game Monster.
Ooh, that looks very interesting. Thank you for showing me!
Absolutely. The Romans were very into killing lions/large animals. In fact, if I rsememrb correctly, they might have caused a localized decline of elephants. Gladiator fights are good examples of animal bloodsports alongside, well, human bloodsport. The Venatio fights were good examples too, be they hunters or other animals. Your example is great as well.
Of corpse, it was a different time. Death-by-lion-mauling is far less common now. There are also now alternatives to kill-all-predators.
Whenever something compares humans to insects, I always wonder what type of insect. There are far too many to give that generalization. I love invertebrates. Many dragons/monsters I design are inspired by invertebrates. Far too much they are seen as creepy pure evil creatures. Especially myriapods, arachnids, and wasps. Wasps, for example, can recognize faces! Parasites are also wonderful creatures (the sheer biodiversity), and I wish they were acknowledged as simply being a part of nature rather than Evil Video Game Monster.
Ooh, that looks very interesting. Thank you for showing me!
Call me Requacy (Pinging Allowed!)(Note to self: Make art for signature)
@Requacy
Ah, that wasn't directed at you personally, just a trend I've seen in xenofiction that involves humans (& was partly inspired by recalling my read-through of the Age of Fire series). Or even non-xenofiction that involves both humans & non-humans... (looking at you, Halo). Like you, I prefer humans as just those weird neighbours over there, rather than how fiction typically depicts humans as being able to kill or enslave all the other sapient species and/or inherently better than the non-humans.
Ah, that wasn't directed at you personally, just a trend I've seen in xenofiction that involves humans (& was partly inspired by recalling my read-through of the Age of Fire series). Or even non-xenofiction that involves both humans & non-humans... (looking at you, Halo). Like you, I prefer humans as just those weird neighbours over there, rather than how fiction typically depicts humans as being able to kill or enslave all the other sapient species and/or inherently better than the non-humans.
@Requacy
Ah, that wasn't directed at you personally, just a trend I've seen in xenofiction that involves humans (& was partly inspired by recalling my read-through of the Age of Fire series). Or even non-xenofiction that involves both humans & non-humans... (looking at you, Halo). Like you, I prefer humans as just those weird neighbours over there, rather than how fiction typically depicts humans as being able to kill or enslave all the other sapient species and/or inherently better than the non-humans.
Ah, that wasn't directed at you personally, just a trend I've seen in xenofiction that involves humans (& was partly inspired by recalling my read-through of the Age of Fire series). Or even non-xenofiction that involves both humans & non-humans... (looking at you, Halo). Like you, I prefer humans as just those weird neighbours over there, rather than how fiction typically depicts humans as being able to kill or enslave all the other sapient species and/or inherently better than the non-humans.
[quote name="@Seadramon" date="2020-11-28 15:13:23" ]
@/Requacy
Ah, that wasn't directed at you, just a trend I've seen in xenofiction that involves humans. Or even non-xenofiction that involves both humans & non-humans... (looking at you, Halo). Like you, I prefer humans as just those weird neighbours over there, rather than how fiction typically depicts humans as being able to kill or enslave all the other sapient species and/or inherently better than the non-humans.
[/quote]
[font=American Gothic][size=4]
Oh, okay! Thank you for telling me. Yeah, it is a very annoying tradition. I understand in, say, [i]Watership Down[/i], but when it comes to stuff like giant insect aliens with teleportation, it doesn't make sense. Humans are just the weird, occasionally dangerous, strange biped things on that one planet... [i]Eee-arthhh.[/i] We could [i]hypothetical[/i] kill another sapient species, but there would have be the right advantages to do so. If, say, giant advanced insect aliens, were our adversary, I do not think we would have the advantage.
I've been trying to write a hypothetical timeline of European dragons being driven to extinction by humans. It isn't because humanity is superior, but simply had cards suited for certain scenarios. We were better able to adapt to a loss of Cenozoic megafauna than, say, a large predatory creature. We also reproduce far quicker. Habitat destruction, prey loss, climate change, disease, and the good-old "hunt it because it is scary and eats our sheep" all contributed. (The sheep/man-eating was more desperation measures, and dragons don't understand private property.)
(I took inspiration from an endangered creature near where I live: the California Condor, which was believed to have scavenged on North American megafauna before the majority's extinction.)
EDIT: Remembered [i]Shark Wars[/i] as a Xenofiction series, similar to Warriors. It follows a great white(?) [spoiler]Megalodon[/spoiler] shark named Gray after he is banished from his home shiver, alongside his friend Barkley. Soon, he gets involved with warring clans, and soon discovers secrets long buried deep in the sea. Also there is a Yoda-like betta fish.
@Seadramon wrote on 2020-11-28 15:13:23:
@/Requacy
Ah, that wasn't directed at you, just a trend I've seen in xenofiction that involves humans. Or even non-xenofiction that involves both humans & non-humans... (looking at you, Halo). Like you, I prefer humans as just those weird neighbours over there, rather than how fiction typically depicts humans as being able to kill or enslave all the other sapient species and/or inherently better than the non-humans.
Ah, that wasn't directed at you, just a trend I've seen in xenofiction that involves humans. Or even non-xenofiction that involves both humans & non-humans... (looking at you, Halo). Like you, I prefer humans as just those weird neighbours over there, rather than how fiction typically depicts humans as being able to kill or enslave all the other sapient species and/or inherently better than the non-humans.
Oh, okay! Thank you for telling me. Yeah, it is a very annoying tradition. I understand in, say, Watership Down, but when it comes to stuff like giant insect aliens with teleportation, it doesn't make sense. Humans are just the weird, occasionally dangerous, strange biped things on that one planet... Eee-arthhh. We could hypothetical kill another sapient species, but there would have be the right advantages to do so. If, say, giant advanced insect aliens, were our adversary, I do not think we would have the advantage.
I've been trying to write a hypothetical timeline of European dragons being driven to extinction by humans. It isn't because humanity is superior, but simply had cards suited for certain scenarios. We were better able to adapt to a loss of Cenozoic megafauna than, say, a large predatory creature. We also reproduce far quicker. Habitat destruction, prey loss, climate change, disease, and the good-old "hunt it because it is scary and eats our sheep" all contributed. (The sheep/man-eating was more desperation measures, and dragons don't understand private property.)
(I took inspiration from an endangered creature near where I live: the California Condor, which was believed to have scavenged on North American megafauna before the majority's extinction.)
EDIT: Remembered Shark Wars as a Xenofiction series, similar to Warriors. It follows a great white(?) Megalodon shark named Gray after he is banished from his home shiver, alongside his friend Barkley. Soon, he gets involved with warring clans, and soon discovers secrets long buried deep in the sea. Also there is a Yoda-like betta fish.
Call me Requacy (Pinging Allowed!)(Note to self: Make art for signature)